What's the Truth About Donovan's Failure in Shanahan's Scheme?

[Oldfan]

Multiple Choice:

What's the truth about Donovan's failure in the Shanahan offense?

A. Donovan is too dumb to learn the scheme

B. Donovan is too stubborn or lazy to learn the scheme

C. Rex has more experience in the scheme; Donovan needs more time

D. Donovan does not fit the Shanahan scheme well

I thought this question was thread worthy because there seems to be too many fans implying that A or B is the correct answer. Questioning the man's intelligence or his attitude is dumb, in my opinion.

As for C, Donovan has more experience than Rex in the scheme. Rex hadn't started a game in this scheme until Sunday. Donovan has started 13.

D is the correct answer. The truth is that Donovan McNabb doesn't fit anyone's scheme well. He never has.

This isn't an opinion based on hindsight. Back on August 29, I authored a thread which began...

Hey, Mike, how about a two-quarterback scheme? ...Don't laugh. Hear me out on this.

Let's start with the obvious. Donovan has a serious flaw in his game. He can't keep his mechanics together which makes his short game inconsistent. So, I figure, like Andy Reid, you're going to adapt to the man's strengths and create a big play offense. Last season, the Eagles were number one in 40+ plays and number two in 20+ plays. But you probably knew that.

When Donovan was in his prime, his exceptional athleticism made it worthwhile for Andy Reid to maximize his QB's strengths and minimize his weaknesses. However, modern offensive strategists like to be able to adapt and take what the defense gives. Mike Shanahan learned that, once defenses took away the deep threat, he felt impotent because the 34 year-old McNabb simply didn't have the tools to move the chains consistently. Mike should have been able to see this before pulling the trigger on the trade.

Mike's reputation as an offensive mastermind was on the line as was his reputation as a keen judge of quarterbacks. He did the right thing by benching Donovan, but the statement that "Mike knows quarterbacks" will no longer go unchallenged.

As for Donovan's trade value, I doubt that we will get strong interest from teams willing to absorb a $13 million contract of a QB who will be 35 next season and doesn't fit anyone's scheme well. But, I guess you never know.

[tshile]

I don't buy the need more time. i also don't buy the lazy aspect. i've edited my post to reflect this. although he may be being stubborn... doesn't exactly reflect what the vast majority of people think about mcnabb, but anything is possible... i hate to call anyone dumb, especially at the NFL level, and given his past. but i unfortunately can't remove it from the equation... there are many levels to dumb, and maybe the problem is after so many years in one system, learning the new system is just too hard? this goes back to forcing peices to fit your system, instead of catering a system for your peices to fit...

I don't think we, as fans, have enough access to make an informed decision.

i think a is as likely as d, as is likely as other options: such as - maybe shanahan just doesn't like mcnabb, or they don't get a long? as well as many other possiblities.

i'm not opposed to the idea that mcnabb is just not 100%, and hasn't been for a long time, and it's having a huge impact on him.

i don't know how anyone can actually make an informed choice in this case. anything people spout out is purely speculation. it's possible donovan can't elarn the system, doesn't want to learn the system, isn't a fit in the system, is injured, there's personal conflicts going on, etc etc etc.

what i think is undisputable is that he hasn't been performing well. he isn't the reason they were 5-8 going into the dallas game, but he certainly hasn't played well and has plenty of blame for it - as does pretty much everyone in the organization at this point.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think it's a combination of C and D. However, C doesn't really matter due to McNabb's age. I think that Grossman's success is partially due to being more familiar with the scheme, so I do believe Donovan would probably improve a bit if he played next year. But, what's the point? He's not going to be good or great in this system even with modest improvement and he's too old to improve dramatically.

So, your answer is 95% D and 5% C. And, I have to commend you for being very right all along about McNabb's fit in this offense. I remember that thread and remember being one of your main opponents in it. One game is just that, but I'm much more a believer in this offense after a 33-30 loss in Dallas than I've been after any of the other 13 games with one exception (Houston).

[BrandonJ83]

I was hoping that Carolina would want McNabb and maybe we could get Luck in the draft? I am not sure we could trade him but if they did pick him up then they probably wouldn't be looking to draft a QB.

As for Donovan in this scheme, I think his mechanics and inaccurate passing at times are his downfall. Not to mention a porus offensive line. Although I have seen times when Donovan has around 3-4 seconds in the pocket and it has resulted in interceptions.

[GaryGreenMonk]

well...

1) I think Grossman just runs the plays a little bit faster and I believe speed is very important to this offense

2) I think McNabb was mildly injured for awhile this season and that affected his speed.. see #1

3) One must remember that the Cowboys pass D isnt good and has struggled badly lately. Lets see how Grossman does against the Jags with a game on film

[tshile]

another thing to consider...

the coaching change the colts have gone through over the last two years, and the changes to the system.

remember manning complaining about changing the system, how upset he was about it?

someone who's considered the 'smartest qb' to play in a long time, was upset about changing systems and how it would impact the offense and delay success.

it's completely possible that going from one system you've been in for a long time, to another one over an offseason, is just flat out hard. maybe it's even harder than what JC went through here, in changing a system every year?

it's not as simple as just learning the new stuff - its also breaking old habbits, and unlearning things you knew as second nature for 10 years... noone should underestimate how difficult that can be...

[hitmandm]

There have been too many reports from Washington and elsewhere about how lazy McCrap is. It is just small talk due to how much everyone likes him, but it is too widespread to be totally without merit.

While he isn't dumb, he just doesnt process the reads quick enough. Maybe not dumb but slower mental processing speed. This may be because he is too lazy to put in the time he needs to practice so he is not as familiar with it, but he is just fat lazy bust.

[skins4eva]

Interesting thread. It's tough to really know what the issues are with McNabb. Certainly, mechanics are part of the problem, most notably on the short routes and balls thrown in the flats. It's also been obvious that in the redzone, McNabb hasn't been going through his progressions. We saw Grossman do that very effectively yesterday. Some of it may also be McNabb and uber-genius Kyle Shanahan not getting along or seeing eye-to-eye on the offense. Whatever the reasons, trading for McNabb and giving up primetime draft picks to a division opponent is a gigantic failure. I give Mike credit for recognizing his mistake and moving in a different direction. Grossman could certainly be a stopgap measure for us until we find a stud quarterback. The other possibility here is that Mike realizes (I believe both he and Bruce realize this) that this team needs to be completely rebuilt. If you accept this premise as true, then benching McNabb is unquestionably the correct decision.

[MartinC]

I think D is certainly a big part of it and that's a failure of scouting aand decision making on the personnel side. Bye bye second round pick .....

However I also think there is some blame on Donovan for his level of performance even given him being and bad fit for the scheme - hen has thrown some bad picks and missed on some throws you blink at if a High School QB misses on. You also have to look at the coaching and failure to adjust the scheme to cater for Donovan, or at least adjust it effectively.

Bottom line the trade has been a failure and they are right to have decided to cut their losses, however it has cost us two valuable draft picks and a year in the rebuilding process.

[addicted]

Multiple Choice:

What's the truth about Donovan's failure in the Shanahan offense?

A. Donovan is too dumb to learn the scheme

B. Donovan is too stubborn or lazy to learn the scheme

C. Rex has more experience in the scheme; Donovan needs more time

D. Donovan does not fit the Shanahan scheme well

It's not as simple as A or B or C or D. I think it's a combination of things which includes:

1. He doesn't fit this scheme

2. Age. The man's on the downside of his career and simply can't do the things he did 10 years ago

3. His Crappy play. McNabb's always been a player who played great at times and made boneheaded throws he can make but misthrew. This year we saw some of that.

4. Teams Crappy play. We don't have the same skill players the Eagles do. We don't compare outside of Madden with the Eagles offensive stars. The WR's, TE's, RB's help make the QB look good and ours didn't turn in the highlights that he's used to. And several games we didn't have a running game to help him

And there are probably more reasons besides these. It's not simply A, B, C, or D.

[GaryGreenMonk]

I think D is certainly a big part of it and that's a failure of scouting aand decision making on the personnel side. Bye bye second round pick .....

However I also think there is some blame on Donovan for his level of performance even given him being and bad fit for the scheme - hen has thrown some bad picks and missed on some throws you blink at if a High School QB misses on. You also have to look at the coaching and failure to adjust the scheme to cater for Donovan, or at least adjust it effectively.

Bottom line the trade has been a failure and they are right to have decided to cut their losses, however it has cost us two valuable draft picks and a year in the rebuilding process.

I could be wrong but that 2nd rounder is already gone I think.

that was our 2nd rounder from last year.

So going forward.. we lose a 4th from this years draft.

but.. if we can trade him for a 4th or better,.. we really don't lose anything going forward because the price has already been paid.

[Bang]

Based on what I've read, it's a combination of B and D.

Maybe he's an old dog who doesn't want to try too many new tricks.

Of course, given the history of this FO and what they do when they want someone out of town, He may have been perfect and they are smearing him for playing badly.

But based on how many receivers caught balls yesterday, the overall performance of the QB position in comparison with the rest of the season, it does seem as if he wasn't willing to do things he wasn't comfortable with.

Rex wasn't perfect and he got plenty of pressure, but I noticed things, such as how long he'd let plays develop before making a throw.. It seemed to me McNabb was more content to stay in the pocket and hurry the play because of the rush, whereas Rex seemed to drift out and fade back while routes developed.

It's hard to not be impressed with a comeback like that. Problem is in the past he's played great, and then followed it up with a stinker for the ages.

I've got my fingers crossed. I don't give a damn WHO it is. I want someone to be a decent quarterback for this team.

~Bang

[clskinsfan]

You should have another choice.

E. Mcnabb is old and washed up.

Look. You dont trade your franchise QB to a division rival if you think he still has a lot left in the tank. Reed stuck it to us. He stole 2 draft picks from us and got rid of a washed up old QB in the process.

[SkinsWizCubsDukes]

How about E. The coaches called a completely different game?

You can tell by the postgame conference that Mike in in love with Rex or a racist at heart. He didn't speak negatively about anything. Uh who was the first interception to that set the tone of the game? Who lost a fumble that led to 7 points and lost us the game? And who came out nervous and erratic with 55 seconds left when all we needed was a field goal and then threw an interception the final play of the game in which we would have had a chance to win? Oh yeah, REX GROSSMAN!

If that was McNabb, Shanahan would not have lived that down, he would have focused only on the mistakes. Did Rex play well? Yeah he did great considering, but same game with McNabb and we would have been hearing about how it was a terrible decision to throw the first pick and the second one to end the game was worse. He is a racist...plain and simple and will ruin our franchise. Mike Shanahan has single handedly said F you, to the whole entire Redskins fan base on 2 separate occasions!

I am so sick of this organization...an organization is supposed to be organized.

Oh but thanks for benching our starting quarterback who had the whole team in his corner for some bum...right before we play Dallas.

[HigSkin]

How about E. The coaches called a completely different game?

You can tell by the postgame conference that Mike in in love with Rex or a racist at heart.

Oh, pleazzzzzz stop with the racist crap. Ever heard of coaches opening up the playbook when somebody can grasp your scheme? What we saw was the ability for the coaching staff to use more of their playbook because the QB's been in the system for a couple of years now, that's all, nothing more.

[clskinsfan]

Sorry, but that bum threw for 300 yards and 4 TD's. When did McChoke have 4 Td's this year? Oh thats right he didnt.

[MartinC]

I could be wrong but that 2nd rounder is already gone I think.

that was our 2nd rounder from last year.

So going forward.. we lose a 4th from this years draft.

but.. if we can trade him for a 4th or better,.. we really don't lose anything going forward because the price has already been paid.

Yes, I knew it was last years second rounder. I was meaning we still lost the ability to use that pick for what could now be a starting Guard, OLB, NT etc.

[BornToHail]

I disagree that McNabb has more experience in Shanahan's system - just b/c he started 13 games this season doesn't equate to Grossman's 2 years of familiarity with the system.

That said, I believe it's a combination of C and D - and kudos to you, Oldfan, for pointing this out to the board.

I honestly don't believe that Grossman is a better QB than McNabb, though, and I'd like to see McNabb grow into the system, but have no doubt he is gone after this season.

[tr1]

D.

It was a gamble. It didn't pay off. We'll probably get one or two lower picks for him (if there's a CBA.)

Oh, and bringing in McNabb made everyone forget about JC...which was HUGE.

[Stophovr6]

I don't need to rationalize why he is benched, I can't tell you what the coaches are thinking, and they will never give a straight answer anyways.

What I really want to know is this. Why is it everytime McNabb is benched for poor play, he is turned into a martyr? I've seen other QB's around the league get benched and no one ever seems to cry foul so hard. Even in his time in Philly, people were up in arms. Without fail, everytime race is brought into it. So absurd. Maybe the reason McNabb has been benched so many times is because HE ISN'T THAT GREAT. This team is done for the season anyways. Lighten up people. A costly mistake was made bringing him in. Actually the biggest mistake was bringing in all the aged veterans that were brought in. Not just McNabb, but Galloway, Parker etc. This team was given one last chance to win now. It failed miserably thanks in part to a lot of shortcomings, not just at QB. But to pretend like McNabb was playing at a high level is silly. We saw yesterday what the offense is capable of. We know Grossman can be a backup QB and help groom a rookie. It's time to move forward, even if it was a giant mistake to bring in McNabb in the first place. If you honestly would rather have McNabb here than the Shannahans, I don't know what to tell you. That will be another offensive scheme he has to learn. Another year wasted for a rebuild.

If I have to pick an option I pick C and D. The truth is it doesn't matter, he won't be here next year, and I won't lose any sleep over it.

Also, does anyone think that after all his season in Reid's system, the Eagles would be doing as well as they are today with McNabb instead of Vick? It took how long for Vick to master that scheme?

[Mahons21]

Sorry, but that bum threw for 300 yards and 4 TD's. When did McChoke have 4 Td's this year? Oh thats right he didnt.

In the same sense that bum could have had us in a 21-0 hole to start the game if the D doesn't play as well as they did.

Rex had an up and down game, I think this is what all of us expected. But implying a guy who should have had 2 INTs(only had 1), on his first 2 drives is leaps and bounds better than "McCrapp" is pretty silly.

[MrDuble81]

E) none of the above...

[Diesel Hog]

You should have another choice.

E. Mcnabb is old and washed up.

Look. You dont trade your franchise QB to a division rival if you think he still has a lot left in the tank. Reed stuck it to us. He stole 2 draft picks from us and got rid of a washed up old QB in the process.

Unfortunately, this is looking like the correct answer. As much as I want to see the team go after O / D Lines and Linebackers in the off-season, the idea of a future QB and a play making WR is looking real good. Who knows...maybe McNabb sticks around next season, gets a better line and true #1 WR, and all of a sudden he's looking a lot better...I'm not a huge McNabb fan, and as underwhelming as he's been, I've also seen a lot of dropped passes this year. Add a few of those up, and we may have actually won a few more games this year.

[darrelgreenie]

D-E.

McNabb is a bad fit.

Also w/ the reports that Synder is upset over the McNabb bench seem to suggest at least to me that McNabb may have been a Synder move and not a Shanahan move.

Kyle may have never wanted McNabb in the 1st place.

Which would create a difficult working relationship between QB and staff.

I still believe that if Kyle wanted McNabb he would have adapted his scheme and McNabb would have more success.

And they wouldn't be giving up on McNabb after 13 games when the system takes more then 13 games to master.

Look at Cutler and Cassel they struggled in their 1st years in a new offense but were given year 2.

[nebster21]

Shanahan is taking these games as if they were preseason games.