What's the Truth About Donovan's Failure in Shanahan's Scheme?

[ABSTRACT]

It's simply D man....don't gotta accuse the dude of beign dumb. He's still in my top 5 QBs of all time but he does not fit OUR style of WCO. I wish him the best in ARI or MINN.

He simply cannot throw accurate short and intermediate passes which alot of average QBs (Grossman) can. That's is all we need to run this offense correctly. It was a mistake that they picked him up (if it wasn't Danny who picked him up) and I believe they know exactly what type of QB we need to run this WCO. Guys like Colt Mccoy, Ricky Stanzi (in this upcoming draft), Chad Pennington, etc. are guys that can be very successful in our scheme. Extremely accurate intermediate passers that can scramble and throw on the run as well.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

He's still in my top 5 QBs of all time but he does not fit OUR style of WCO.

Really?? Interesting.

[darrelgreenie]

D-E.

McNabb is a bad fit.

Also w/ the reports that Synder is upset over the McNabb bench seem to suggest at least to me that McNabb may have been a Synder move and not a Shanahan move.

Kyle may have never wanted McNabb in the 1st place.

Which would create a difficult working relationship between QB and staff.

I still believe that if Kyle wanted McNabb he would have adapted his scheme and McNabb would have more success.

And they wouldn't be giving up on McNabb after 13 games when the system takes more then 13 games to master.

Look at Cutler and Cassel they struggled in their 1st years in a new offense but were given year 2.

Which would also explain the weird offseason mixed with re-building/re-tooling moves and seemingly win now moves.

[Redskins4ever]

McNabb obviously doesn't fit the scheme well. Maybe he needs another year in the offense. 14TDs and 15INTs within a 13 game period aren't typical Donovan McNabb numbers. McNabb is not washed up by any means either, considering that he went to the Pro Bowl just last year. But you can almost never have instant success with a veteran QB learning a new offense with new WRs and so forth.

[Hooper]

You should have another choice.

E. Mcnabb is old and washed up.

Look. You dont trade your franchise QB to a division rival if you think he still has a lot left in the tank. Reed stuck it to us. He stole 2 draft picks from us and got rid of a washed up old QB in the process.

Unfortunately I think this is the right answer.

McNabb is done as a quality starter in this league.

Reid knew it. And now Shanahan knows it -- unfortunately it took him a terrible trade and first year to realize that.

Even worse, we'll be lucky to get anything for McNabb in the offseason. Minnesota is our best hope if they keep the same scheme in place. Other teams aren't going to want to trade for an aging QB who has proven he can't adapt to a new system quick.

[Mahons21]

DG, I think you have a valid theory, I just don't see it actually being the case. I just can't see Snyder hiring Allen, and a Coach who expects total personnel control, and in that very same offseason, making the biggest personnel change himself.

Shannahan may have made a mistake, but who knows. Maybe McNabb will excel in this offense next season.

[clskinsfan]

How about E. The coaches called a completely different game?

You can tell by the postgame conference that Mike in in love with Rex or a racist at heart. He didn't speak negatively about anything. Uh who was the first interception to that set the tone of the game? Who lost a fumble that led to 7 points and lost us the game? And who came out nervous and erratic with 55 seconds left when all we needed was a field goal and then threw an interception the final play of the game in which we would have had a chance to win? Oh yeah, REX GROSSMAN!

If that was McNabb, Shanahan would not have lived that down, he would have focused only on the mistakes. Did Rex play well? Yeah he did great considering, but same game with McNabb and we would have been hearing about how it was a terrible decision to throw the first pick and the second one to end the game was worse. He is a racist...plain and simple and will ruin our franchise. Mike Shanahan has single handedly said F you, to the whole entire Redskins fan base on 2 separate occasions!

I am so sick of this organization...an organization is supposed to be organized.

Oh but thanks for benching our starting quarterback who had the whole team in his corner for some bum...right before we play Dallas.

Yeah. Shanahan is such a racist that he traded 2 draft picks to get the guy.:rolleyes:

[Thiebear]

so your saying there is no learning process for the McNabb.

But there is one for the 3-4 defense

But there is one for the new coach

But there is one for the new scheme

I don't know, that seems new compared to other teams/this team in the learning a new system SOP.

Just like putting Rex in there has 2 points:

He has an easier time the first game as he learns to be the starter (more reps) the other team doesn't know his habits.

Future teams will learn him and it will be harder to surprise, but easier with more snaps on first team.

I disagree on Reid causing the skins 2 years.

The Skins caused the skins 1 additional year, this year was seen as rebuilding at best anyway.

[Hooper]

The problem isn't that Donny didn't know where to go with the ball at times.

It's that he couldn't hit what he was throwing at.

[darrelgreenie]

DG, I think you have a valid theory, I just don't see it actually being the case. I just can't see Snyder hiring Allen, and a Coach who expects total personnel control, and in that very same offseason, making the biggest personnel change himself.

Shannahan may have made a mistake, but who knows. Maybe McNabb will excel in this offense next season.

Reading the signs and the way things have played out its the only thing that makes sense when you consider how quickly they're "giving up" on McNabb considering what "they" gave up to get him.

Coaches go out of their way to make things work when they acquire a QB.

This was the worst season of McNabb's career, a borderline HOF multiple pro-bowl career.

I have a hard team believing that a motivated Kyle and Mike couldn't have more success w/ McNabb if they were behind the decision to bring him here.

They would have done everything in their power to adjust the offense to allow McNabb to have success.

Imo they didn't want him and Kyle and McNabb have never had a proper OC/QB relationship.

[addicted]

I don't need to rationalize why he is benched, I can't tell you what the coaches are thinking, and they will never give a straight answer anyways.

What I really want to know is this. Why is it everytime McNabb is benched for poor play, he is turned into a martyr? I've seen other QB's around the league get benched and no one ever seems to cry foul so hard. Even in his time in Philly, people were up in arms. Without fail, everytime race is brought into it. So absurd. Maybe the reason McNabb has been benched so many times is because HE ISN'T THAT GREAT. This team is done for the season anyways. Lighten up people. A costly mistake was made bringing him in. Actually the biggest mistake was bringing in all the aged veterans that were brought in. Not just McNabb, but Galloway, Parker etc. This team was given one last chance to win now. It failed miserably thanks in part to a lot of shortcomings, not just at QB. But to pretend like McNabb was playing at a high level is silly. We saw yesterday what the offense is capable of. We know Grossman can be a backup QB and help groom a rookie. It's time to move forward, even if it was a giant mistake to bring in McNabb in the first place. If you honestly would rather have McNabb here than the Shannahans, I don't know what to tell you. That will be another offensive scheme he has to learn. Another year wasted for a rebuild.

If I have to pick an option I pick C and D. The truth is it doesn't matter, he won't be here next year, and I won't lose any sleep over it.

Also, does anyone think that after all his season in Reid's system, the Eagles would be doing as well as they are today with McNabb instead of Vick? It took how long for Vick to master that scheme?

Well you answered your own question. It's a race issue. People actually believe lines of crap like this

The poor black man isn't getting the fair shake he deserves, his boss must secretly be a racist!

What a bunch of bullspit. This is the sort of thing you will get when you go with a black QB over a white one. If the white QB say it was Grossman tried to play the poor me card he would get laughed out of town. But when the black man does it you get reactions like this

You can tell by the postgame conference that Mike in in love with Rex or a racist at heart.

It's a damn shame this sort of thing continues to be acceptable in the game today. Undoubtedly this wrong way of thinking would keep teams from giving Black QB's more of an opportunity then they have been given already. Who in the right mind wants to be grouped into being labeled a Racist if they can avoid that by not playing these players? The whole arguement is sickening

[darrelgreenie]

Well you answered your own question. It's a race issue. People actually believe lines of crap like this

The poor black man isn't getting the fair shake he deserves, his boss must secretly be a racist!

What a bunch of bullspit. This is the sort of thing you will get when you go with a black QB over a white one. If the white QB say it was Grossman tried to play the poor me card he would get laughed out of town. But when the black man does it you get reactions like this

It's a damn shame this sort of thing continues to be acceptable in the game today. Undoubtedly this wrong way of thinking would keep teams from giving Black QB's more of an opportunity then they have been given already. Who in the right mind wants to be grouped into being labeled a Racist if they can avoid that by not playing these players? The whole arguement is sickening

Your post is a shame.

People are talking football in this thread.

This is the second time in 2 days you have brought race into the equation.

[Stophovr6]

Your post is a shame.

People are talking football in this thread.

This is the second time in 2 days you have brought race into the equation.

Maybe you should look back in this thread and see who brought race into the equation.

[tshile]

How about E. The coaches called a completely different game?

You can tell by the postgame conference that Mike in in love with Rex or a racist at heart. He didn't speak negatively about anything. Uh who was the first interception to that set the tone of the game? Who lost a fumble that led to 7 points and lost us the game? And who came out nervous and erratic with 55 seconds left when all we needed was a field goal and then threw an interception the final play of the game in which we would have had a chance to win? Oh yeah, REX GROSSMAN!

If that was McNabb, Shanahan would not have lived that down, he would have focused only on the mistakes. Did Rex play well? Yeah he did great considering, but same game with McNabb and we would have been hearing about how it was a terrible decision to throw the first pick and the second one to end the game was worse. He is a racist...plain and simple and will ruin our franchise. Mike Shanahan has single handedly said F you, to the whole entire Redskins fan base on 2 separate occasions!

I am so sick of this organization...an organization is supposed to be organized.

Oh but thanks for benching our starting quarterback who had the whole team in his corner for some bum...right before we play Dallas.

oh wow, you're all of the place with that garbage.

can't handle having people tell you a black quarterback isn't playing well? that automatically make them a racist to you?

thats the problem with some people in this country these days... it's pathetic.

[ABSTRACT]

Unfortunately I think this is the right answer.

McNabb is done as a quality starter in this league.

Reid knew it. And now Shanahan knows it -- unfortunately it took him a terrible trade and first year to realize that.

Even worse, we'll be lucky to get anything for McNabb in the offseason. Minnesota is our best hope if they keep the same scheme in place. Other teams aren't going to want to trade for an aging QB who has proven he can't adapt to a new system quick.

I believe the answer is D. He's not washed up...agin yes but not washed up. Reid DID NOT want to get rid of McNabb. These two are close friends and McNabb grew into Eagles style of WCO and was good in it. The front office got rid of McNabb (as they do all of theyre players...Dawkins, trotter, etc.) He simply does not fit in OUR STYLE of WCO offense and I wish him the best somewhere else.

[MrDuble81]

does anyone else know that mcnabb, even after not playing yesterday, is still top 10 in the NFL in passing yards? and 3rd in pass completions of 40+? and top 10 in completions of 20+? just sayin...

unless we can get one of those 9 qb's in front of him, mcnabb should be our guy....

[tshile]

does anyone else know that mcnabb, even after not playing yesterday, is still top 10 in the NFL in passing yards? and 3rd in pass completions of 40+? just sayin...

yards don't equal points

and 3rd in passing completions of 40+, but doesn't have the TD's to show for it because he underthrows his WR's constantly which meanst hey get tackeled where they caught the ball.

[Oldfan]

...i don't know how anyone can actually make an informed choice in this case. anything people spout out is purely speculation. it's possible donovan can't elarn the system, doesn't want to learn the system, isn't a fit in the system, is injured, there's personal conflicts going on, etc etc etc.

Your use of the phrase "pure speculation" implies little or no evidence to support the conclusion. That isn't the case when we speculate about his fit for the scheme. We have a dozen years of evidence on Donovan. You might question my knowledge of the game, but you can't call it pure speculation.

[Stophovr6]

does anyone else know that mcnabb, even after not playing yesterday, is still top 10 in the NFL in passing yards? and 3rd in pass completions of 40+? just sayin...

Two stats and not a thought to go with it. Good job.

He's in the bottom 10 in completion percentage and Touchdowns....just sayin....

[Oldfan]

does anyone else know that mcnabb, even after not playing yesterday, is still top 10 in the NFL in passing yards? and 3rd in pass completions of 40+? and top 10 in completions of 20+? just sayin...

unless we can get one of those 9 qb's in front of him, mcnabb should be our guy....

Most of us don't grade QBs based on one cherry-picked stat.

[TSO]

From a recent Sally Jenkins article (can't believe how much I've started to enjoy her work):

The word from inside Redskins Park was that the Shanahans have been frustrated for weeks by the fact that McNabb either couldn't or wouldn't absorb Kyle Shanahan's offense and make the correct reads, and that he only wanted to do the things that made him comfortable. His inflexibility limited the play-calling options, and his inconsistency too often put them in difficult long-yardage situations. Hence, he never improved in 13 games. Those judgments now seem correct.

The word from the McNabb side is that the Shanahans didn't do enough to accommodate his improvisational talents, that Kyle Shanahan still has a lot to learn that he didn't do enough to make the freelance-happy McNabb more effective, and also protect him from sacks behind a vulnerable line. Perhaps a valid point, given that Grossman was sacked five times.

I think these two paragraphs, if they hold anything of truth within them, are the answer to the question posed by Oldfan. It looks like it's a mixture of B, C and D. There has been some stubbornness to change, and I do think that Kyle has called a lot of deep pass plays for McNabb... it's why we rarely got a long, time-consuming drive out of the offense when McNabb was running it. Grossman comes in and just like that we suddenly have three long, time-consuming drives in one half. I don't think that's just a coincidence, so I'm going to lean towards the idea that McNabb has been a bit more inflexible and it has hurt the offense overall. He's done some good things, and I'm sure the coaches have relayed that to him, but in order to win championships it's going to take some balance.

I understand the McNabb trade and stand by it to this day. I don't think Shanahan was so wrong for pulling the trigger. You assume that a QB who has done a lot of things during his 11 year career and has not shown any decline in arm strength or athleticism the last few years can come in and be productive in any system. The last thing you assume is he's going to come in and pretty much refuse to adapt, or simply make it extremely difficult to implement your entire playbook. You could argue that the Eagles last year were almost entirely predicated on the big play, so Shanny should've known that... but unless he's talking directly to Andy Reid about it all how could he have when McNabb has shown previously that he can run a more quick pass-oriented offense as well. I guess Westbrook made more of a difference than anyone previously thought.

Still, McNabb isn't a bad QB. He's a very good one who can escape pressure, take hits and improvise with the best of them. He's just one who is a bit one-dimensional. Kyle's system is strong in my mind, so a QB who is more multi-faceted is going to be better even though he may be less talented or even less capable. I think that's what has come out through all of this.

[addicted]

Maybe you should look back in this thread and see who brought race into the equation.

why bring facts into something like this? Appreciate the support

[Oldfan]

...remember manning complaining about changing the system, how upset he was about it?..

No, I remember him being upset about NFL rule changes.

[Coloradoskin]

A and B and Coach Reid is looking like a genius right now. most of McNabb's yards are credited to having Westbrook. I don't really believe it's A and B but I just had to say it. Andy Reid took us to school on that trade.

I hate to admit that but he did.

[addicted]

Your use of the phrase "pure speculation" implies little or no evidence to support the conclusion. That isn't the case when we speculate about his fit for the scheme. We have a dozen years of evidence on Donovan. You might question my knowledge of the game, but you can't call it pure speculation.

No your one of the best most interesting posters on the forum, you speculate like everyone else but it's always based on fact and are appreciated around here.