MSNBC/NY TIMES: Wikileaks leaks Cables, shines light into secret diplomatic channels (HOLY COW, THIS WILL GET UGLY)

[AsburySkinsFan]

It's a shame war isn't like the good old days when the leader who decided to fight led the charge. Wouldn't be anything like the troubles in the world if the person at the top was going to be among the first to die, and if it's not worth their life it's not worth mine....

War got a whole lot easier when the king no longer led the charge.

What's funny is that is was counted as a fault against King David (Israel) because he sent his army to war and yet he stayed back in Jerusalem.

Now it's common place for our leadership even the generals to stay behind while the foot soldiers die.

[Titaw]

This stuff really pisses me off. There is a reason why information is classified, it isn't WHAT the information reveals, it's HOW the information was obtained. Really who cares if Qaddaffi is followed around by a blonde nurse? Not many, but what it does reveal to our adversaries that with the type of information released it is reasonable to suspect the manner in which the information is obtained. Therefore our adversaries will develop ways around our collections. This includes change in communication patters, killing sources, and development of new technology.

This is one of the main reasons Usama Bin Laden (UBL) is still at large. It was leaked to the press that the US was exploiting the communications between UBL and his associates. The next day the network goes dark and never returns. I can say, somewhat confidently, that UBL would have either been killed or captured by now if the info hadn't been leaked.

Lives will be lost because of these leaks, it is sad, truly sad.

[laurent]

One of my friends is a security consultant for DOD in germany. He's not much different than me and he gets access to stuff just like this, or even more high level than diplomatic stuff. He could do something like this because he deals with all the data. You have to understand how enterprise level IT is put together. There has to be some lower paid slug doing work on just about data created by our government.

From what I've read in German news outlets approximately 2.5 million people have access to the leaked material. This is a information security breakdown of epic proportions.

[laurent]

The problem is much more than just security issues. This negates a lot of hard and expensive work done by many people. It puts a lot of our friends in danger, and it reduces incentives for people to work with us. For many people this probably changes the calculation of benefit vs cost of cooperating with the USA.

This is different from, for example, breaking a story about us doing crappy things like installing a dictator in some third world country.

To me what's even more damaging is how arrogant the US comes across with their simplistic black and white painting of allies and adversaries. The friend or foe thinking on display for everybody to read is quite unnerving as far as I am concerned.

[skinfan133]

This is ridiculous. Seriously. What the **** is wikileaks trying to accomplish here? Isn't this supposed to be a whistle-blowing site? What the hell exactly and specifically are they whistle-blowing here?

[laurent]

This is ridiculous. Seriously. What the **** is wikileaks trying to accomplish here? Isn't this supposed to be a whistle-blowing site? What the hell exactly and specifically are they whistle-blowing here?

The merit of the documents not withstanding, if there's one thing this leak has done, is point out how poor the state of access control is in our government.

[fullnelson9999]

I enjoyed watching Assange get destroyed by Colbert on the Colbert Report.

The guy is total scum. He hides behind his "free speech" bull**** in order to push an agenda.

[AzSkinsFan63]

There is no way that kid had access to all of the information that's been leaked. He may have had some of it, and he may become the scapegoat for ALL of it. But it's simply not possible, IMO.

Bingo!

[Beans]

Something doesn't feel right about this. Now he has just about pissed off everybody. Is he striving for martyrdom? He is already infamous.

[NavyDave]

I'm surprised this guy hasn't suffered lead poisoning from two bullets to the body and one to the head and the one in custody feeling remorse for painting all deviant lifestylers in the military as unpatriotic with his actions and ended it all.

not that I'm advocating that they be taken out.

[nonniey]

Why does WikiLeaks think this is a good idea?

Come on now Assange hates the United States. Of course he and his organization think this was a great idea.

[nonniey]

To me what's even more damaging is how arrogant the US comes across with their simplistic black and white painting of allies and adversaries. The friend or foe thinking on display for everybody to read is quite unnerving as far as I am concerned.

That is really a Department of State culture. You can see that there is a distinct difference in tone between the leaked Pentagon documents and the leaked State Department documents. State Department personnel generally think they are superior to everyone else and these cables reflect that.

[Koala]

So far the most interesting thing leaked is that China apparently dislikes the NK's almsot as much as we do.

I fail to see how that would really affect policy in the region though. Im sure China has voiced its displeasure NK in private, and if the retards havent picked up on the message yet, maybe these leaks will help push them in the right direction: NK you have no more friends, get in line or die. What are they gonna do, attack China?

As far as the leak that Arab governments like SA have been pushing for a strike on Iran as hard as Israel does, thats no secret at all.

I really dont think any of these leaks Ive seen so far in any way come as a surprise to diplomatic insiders. The only people that might be a bit surprised is the public. I tell you what, if the public reacts in a mature manner, I really think it would be a major blow to the argument that the public must be kept in the dark for its own good. Im no anarchist, and some things have to be kept secret, but I also have a natural skepticism of anyone that insists on secrecy and treats transparency like it was kryptonite.

We cant have these total leaks like Wikileaks, but the media in the U.S. has been failing so miserably in its job of getting the truth to the public, that I dont know exactly how to feel about this. The media's job was to expose the truth, all of it, in a responsible manner (i.e. redacting names, details that put people's life in danger etc.) that does not DIRECTLY affect the personal security of US assets nor the general national security.. You need a free, independent, and responsible media in order to do this. And a trustworth one. None of those adjectives applies to the current US media. THus, perhaps creating unfortunately the need for wikileaks type organizations in order to ahve any shot of exposing truth, but given its unfiltered nature, it is a possibly dangerous method. If only the media would do its job, I would be the 1st in line to track down this Assange fellow...

[Predicto]

I'm not worried about what the various leaders and governments of the world think. Everything I've read, leaders should already know or suspect. I'm not even worried about what the public in the West thinks.

I'm worried about countries like Egypt and Yemen and Pakistan and Lebanon and so forth, where the governments are in danger of toppling to extremists. The extremist movements will be able to cherrypick from this leaked stuff to convince the average undereducated citizen of those countries that their goverment is lying to them, that the US is pulling the strings on their government, and that a revolution is necessary. That is a big problem.

[NavyDave]

As Beck said on his show earlier some of the things leaked is nothing new as evidenced by him pointing out the obvious on shows last year.

The State Dept has long been viewed as a left leaning progressive bunch that did not have our best interests in mind but the socialist world. Before I retired and was on the staff of 3 star while in Europe I didn't bite my tongue when replying to a question about the State dept. The no thanks I'm patriotic and want to continue to work with people who love the USA didn't go over well.

[Zguy28]

I hope everyone who may decide to read the actual documents at NY Times or wikileaks realizes that they are still classified Secret by the United States Government. That could mean major headaches if your computer is known to have accessed them, including confiscation and sanitization (including destruction in some cases). I have to deal with classified data spills (just about every DoD contractor does) from an IT side pretty regularly.

[Predicto]

The State Dept has long been viewed by complete morons as a left leaning progressive bunch that did not have our best interests in mind but the socialist world. Before I retired and was on the staff of 3 star while in Europe I didn't bite my tongue when replying to a question about the State dept. The no thanks I'm patriotic and want to continue to work with people who love the USA didn't go over well because it was a moronic thing to believe and an even more moronic thing to say out loud.

[Koala]

You know, Predicto, you make a good point, but at the same time, I wonder about our attempts to shelter these failing governments that obviously do not have the full blessing of their people. Is it doing more harm than good? Is it raising anti-american sentiments? How long can we keep propping up these tyep of failing regimes. Sometimes, you just gotta let everything fall apart, and leave the people to sort things out for themselves, it might end up doing more good and might end up allowing for the foundations of a truly free society to emerge.

In Egypt, for example, you can put down the Islamists all you want, but large portions of the population want some form of Islamization. How long can we continue to allow the Egyptian government to suppress this expression democratically? Even if you are a reflexive anti-Islamist, I think you have to understand that suppressing people's wishes is dangerous. If you hate Islamists, well let the Egyptians learn the hard way that the Islamists dont really have all the answers and are often jsut using religion to further their own goals.

Lebanon is a trickier situation: that society is do divided along ethnic lines, that a democratic expression of the people's will might just lead to civil war. But then again, how long can we expect to keep Lebanon scotch-taped together. Let things run their natural course.

Pakistan is everyone's favorite new Islamic demon, but truth is, if you look at Pakistan's latest democratic elections, you will find that the Islamists lost badly, and that Pakistani society has really begun to sour on the Islamists. Its not a rejection of Islam thats taking place, but something much more important, more progressive: the understanding that many so-called Islamists are just thugs cloaked in false religion, and are less true to Islam than most normal muslims within their hearts and in how they conduct their business. It is an invaluable lesson for Pakistan and all muslim nations to learn, and by interfering needlessly in their affairs, I wonder if we dont end up actually helping the Islamists escape scrutiny because everyone is too busy being ticked off with whatever the West is doing.

Anyways, sorry to derail the thread...

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

As Beck said on his show earlier some of the things leaked is nothing new as evidenced by him pointing out the obvious on shows last year.

The State Dept has long been viewed as a left leaning progressive bunch that did not have our best interests in mind but the socialist world. Before I retired and was on the staff of 3 star while in Europe I didn't bite my tongue when replying to a question about the State dept. The no thanks I'm patriotic and want to continue to work with people who love the USA didn't go over well.

The 50's called and they want their talking point back.

[AsburySkinsFan]

The 50's called and they want their talking point back.

I never thought I'd see Navy Dave quoting Glenn Beck...oh wait....that's right he's Beck's key demographic....nvmd.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I think NavyDave epitomizes Beck's fanbase.

[herrmag]

I hope everyone who may decide to read the actual documents at NY Times or wikileaks realizes that they are still classified Secret by the United States Government. That could mean major headaches if your computer is known to have accessed them, including confiscation and sanitization (including destruction in some cases). I have to deal with classified data spills (just about every DoD contractor does) from an IT side pretty regularly.

Correct. I work for a DoD contractor, and I've (WE) have already put out multiple distro's stating that you are liable for security violations of KNOWINGLY downloading classified content from the site on to an unclassified computer.

EDIT: It is my opinion that the data will be downgraded to unclassified. I do not work for the government, nor do I have the authority to declassify any of the info on wikileaks. So nobody should assume I am correct in my assessment.

[Prosperity]

I'm worried about countries like Egypt and Yemen and Pakistan and Lebanon and so forth, where the governments are in danger of toppling to extremists. The extremist movements will be able to cherrypick from this leaked stuff to convince the average undereducated citizen of those countries that their goverment is lying to them, that the US is pulling the strings on their government, and that a revolution is necessary. That is a big problem.

In the long run it's probably better that those countries find some new type of government

[gbear]

I had to laugh when I heard one of the things the wikileaks said was that our state department was collecting biometric info on various people in other governments? This is a problem? Is it not a good thing to know with whom you are talking?

Didn't we just have a situation where a "Taliban leader" was found out to be an imposter? Wouldn't a photo or other notes from a previous encounter as to the height, size, noticable scars, etc. have been useful?

I suspect a lot of the "leaks" are "well duh! Of course they note that" moments.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I've been kinda on the fence with the wikileaks issue, but after a lot of thought on this topic and it's repurcussions I think that wikileaks is acting irresponsively, I as convinced that bringing this stuff to light was a bad thing when it began to reveal China's perceived attitudes toward North Korea and some of the concessions that they may be willing to make; i.e. allowing for a collapsed North Korea, and allowing a single Korean government controlled in Seoul as long as there were no US troops north of the current DMZ. If these leaks force China to retreat from that position then wikileaks will singlehandedly reinforced China's commitment to Kim Jong Il's totalitarian government, and for those who don't know...that's bad.