Is Shanny Really Trying To Get Jay Cutler Back?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Excuse me.

He put up almost 3500 yds, 20 tds and a completion % of 63.6 in 2007

In 2008 he put up 4526 yda, 25 tds and a competion rate of 62.3 %

So yes he was "that" good with Shanahan.

As a point of reference, McNabb has 1971 yds passing, 7 tds and a completion % of 57.4 for the first 8 games this season.

Double those numbers and they are not close to Cutlers.

In 2008 the Broncos were 8-5 with a 3-game lead over the rest of the division. One single win makes them division champions and puts them in the playoffs. So what happens? Over those last three games the Broncos lose ALL of them, with the mighty Jay Cutler throwing only TWO touchdowns in that 3-game span. Ah, but he also threw FOUR INTs during that same span as well...with the season on the line, and a 3-game lead on all your division rivals, you throw 2 TDs and 4 INTs...and watch as the Chargers take the division from you because your QB saves his worst games for when you need him the most.

People want to chalk those losses up to the Broncos' defense, but Cutler's nosedive in terms of production and points helped lose those games right along with the defense. And his INTs led to either short fields and points for the opposition or left points on the field because he threw them in the red zone.

Basically Cutler on the Broncos was the QB version of the Dallas Cowboys lol...put up nice numbers in September and October, then **** the bed at the end of the season when you need him the most. Has he changed?...No idea. Last year would seem to suggest that he has, but then again last year would seem to suggest that the Cowboys had changed as well...and we see where they're at now, don't we? ...And that's because the gaudy stats the Cowboys put up don't mean crap if you don't have the right temperament, mindset and intangibles to go along with those stats. The Cowboys don't have that combination, and so far in his career neither does Cutler.

[konga2145]

Can't believe the way some of you chase these idiotic rumers Cuttler and Mcnabb both will be playing with their teams next year, besides why would anyone in middle of playoff race trade qb

[texasthunder]

I know. Sorry about that. I have confusing thoughts.

I love McNabb. Love him. But I'm starting to think that Cutler might play even better with us. It might not be the players around him after all.

See here's the thing alot of fans are overlooking:

Mcnabb will be 34 yrs old later this month.

He will need to sign a contract extension before next year.

So how many years do we sign him for ? 2 or 3 ? longer ?

So that means in the future we will have a 35 or 36 year old qb running our offense.

Alot of you fans are screaming that this team needs to get younger, but are willing to make an exception for the most important position on the football field.

Hmmmmm....................

[Califan007 The Constipated]

See here's the thing alot of fans are overlooking:

Mcnabb will be 34 yrs old later this month.

He will need to sign a contract extension before next year.

So how many years do we sign him for ? 2 or 3 ? longer ?

So that means in the future we will have a 35 or 36 year old qb running our offense.

Alot of you fans are screaming that this team needs to get younger, but are willing to make an exception for the most important position on the football field.

Hmmmmm....................

That's because 34 and 35 year old QBs are often still productive and valuable on the field. In 2007, would you have rather had a 26 year old Todd Collins filling in for Campbell or a 36 year old Collins like we had at the time?

Getting younger just for the sake of getting younger is NEVER the answer.

[megared]

But you're leaving out one key fact: Denver's defense was dead last for at least one those seasons.

Actually from 2005-'08 Denver's defense was ranked #15, #14, #19, and #29. Using defensive rankings, we're currently ranked lower than they were any of those years.

C'mon...they were 6-7 in a historically bad division over the time Cutler was starting. I included 2005 to show that things really weren't much different from Plummer starting...and they weren't. The only difference was, Plummer could sometimes beat elite teams, where Cutler never did.

2005 Denver went 5-1 against playoff teams with Plummer starting

2006 3-4 vs. playoff teams; Cutler went 0-1, Plummer went 3-3

2007 2-5 vs. playoff teams, Cutler's first full year starting

2008 2-3 vs. playoff teams

It wasn't like Denver's offense was a juggernaut that could score on anyone...they put up big points on terrible teams and struggled against decent defenses.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

In 2008 the Broncos were 8-5 with a 3-game lead over the rest of the division. One single win makes them division champions and puts them in the playoffs. So what happens? Over those last three games the Broncos lose ALL of them, with the mighty Jay Cutler throwing only TWO touchdowns in that 3-game span. Ah, but he also threw FOUR INTs during that same span as well...with the season on the line, and a 3-game lead on all your division rivals, you throw 2 TDs and 4 INTs...and watch as the Chargers take the division from you because your QB saves his worst games for when you need him the most.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd be for drafting our OWN franchise QB as my first choice. But, in defense of Cutler, I don't think one 3-game stretch is a fair indictment of a QB. Couldn't we point to any of McNabb's 4 NFC Championship Game losses (3 of which were at home, I believe). Couldn't we point to Manning's failures in the playoffs until recently? Also, you mention Romo sits to pee as a choker, but having a QB of his caliber would be a huge upgrade over our situation of the past 10 years.

[mistertim]

To be honest, what I think about Cutler, what others here think about Cutler is probably all moot anyway. The Bears aren't going to give him up without some decent compensation and there are plenty of teams out there who are in such dire need of QB talent that someone will take the bait. They paid two 1st rounders and a 3rd for the guy; they are going to do whatever they can to recoup some of it (and that is IF they even decide to deal him). He is young and has physical talents and that will still draw interest from many teams, even if his playing is (and always has been) inconsistent. The Redskins just don't have the draft ammo unless Shanny and Allen are dumb enough to give up our 1st rounder for him or ANOTHER 2nd and 3rd rounder for another QB, etc. I'd rather limp by with McNabb and let Shanny draft a QB for him to groom in the next year or two. That is likely what will happen.

Now, if McNabb decides he doesn't want to play here next year that gives us a whole new set of problems. We don't know if there will be a franchise tag in the new CBA or, if there is, what it will look like. If he leaves we are pretty much left with Grossman and at that point we may be literally forced into making a deal for a new QB unless Shanahan wants to take a chance on a QB in the draft this year and let him start quickly (and this years QB class is not deep at all. Luck is the only "blue chip" guy out there and if he declares he will go top 3) so unless we completely tank the rest of this season we would have to give up a ton anyway to move up and get him.

[Hardcore Zornography]

Hahahaha, you guys. Love you guys.

Who needs primetime television when you are a Redskins fan?

Keep it coming, fellas. This is EXTREMELY entertaining to read.

[darrelgreenie]

I know. Sorry about that. I have confusing thoughts.

I love McNabb. Love him. But I'm starting to think that Cutler might play even better with us. It might not be the players around him after all.

Well if you like confusing here's an esoteric point for you.

Right now McNabb is playing about as poorly as he's ever played in his career.

So, when i say that Cutler is playing better right now its really not saying much because almost any QB is playing better right now.

But we both know that McNabb is a much better QB then what he's shown thus far.

But, you seem to imply that McNabb is playing poorly only because of the team around him and not by any fault of his own.

(Which imo is actually a sign that you don't think McNabb is the QB he used to be if you think he isn't capable of playing much better then he has)

And if you believe that how can you explain away that last years passing game with far less talent was better in every meaningful passing metric?

(Not to mention witnessing 1st hand the late reads, late throws, off targets passes and general avoidance of the open checkdown in the face of a pass rush.)

I know McNabb is playing poorly and at the same time i know that McNabb is a much better QB then the levels he's playing right now.

Even though the notion that a trade would even be mentioned is absurd if it were to happen Cutler would be the better option (even if McNabb were playing well) b/c he's younger, knows the system, has a better arm and while his mechanics are very bit as inconsistent as McNabb; Cutler is still more accurate.

[scott.sharrer]

There is one simple fact that all trades come down to. COMPENSATION. No team will give up a player in a trade without what THEY feel is equal compensation. The low value some are putting on Cutler may not be how the Bears rate him. And vice versa. They may have a lower value of him then those on here are rating him. Basically, we can debate this THEORY all year long and still not come close to what the actual outcome will be.

Secondly, I don't agree with basing the value of a player on their stats from 2-3 years prior, even if you are trying to use the fact of who they played for (case in point with bringing in Cutler cause of Shanny). Cutler has developed and/or changed since last playing for Shanny. Plain and simple fact. They positives he had in Denver with Shanny may not be as good as they were come next season. Is he working out in Chi-town? No, will he work out here? No way to say for sure. Is he worth the risk? Only if we don't have to give the house for him. I am tired of us giving up twice the value of a player to get them. Cutler may be younger then McNabb, but a rookie QB is even younger and can be tweaked easier then an established veteran (established as in set in his way after years in the NFL) and yes IMO I would rather keep an older QB (by the way P. Manning is older then McNabb just for a reference to the age comments) and have him tutor a younger QB even if it is just on the basics of being a NFL QB.

[Hubbs]

Well if you like confusing here's an esoteric point for you.

Right now McNabb is playing about as poorly as he's ever played in his career.

So, when i say that Cutler is playing better right now its really not saying much because almost any QB is playing better right now.

But we both know that McNabb is a much better QB then what he's shown thus far.

But, you seem to imply that McNabb is playing poorly only because of the team around him and not by any fault of his own.

(Which imo is actually a sign that you don't think McNabb is the QB he used to be if you think he isn't capable of playing much better then he has)

And if you believe that how can you explain away that last years passing game with far less talent was better in every meaningful passing metric?

(Not to mention witnessing 1st hand the late reads, late throws, off targets passes and general avoidance of the open checkdown in the face of a pass rush.)

I know McNabb is playing poorly and at the same time i know that McNabb is a much better QB then the levels he's playing right now.

Even though the notion that a trade would even be mentioned is absurd if it were to happen Cutler would be the better option (even if McNabb were playing well) b/c he's younger, knows the system, has a better arm and while his mechanics are very bit as inconsistent as McNabb; Cutler is still more accurate.

No, McNabb isn't playing poor. We've won as many games as we won all of last year. There's a reason for that.

[Morneblade]

What? Are you kidding? Dude put up 4,500 yards and 25 touchdowns with Shanahan. Only thing is, I think it was the players around him, not him, that were the good ones, and Shanny doesn't know that.

You really need to look at more than 2 stats. First, he threw the ball over 600 times his "Probowl" year. His, YPA and YPC were not that high.Basically he got alot of yards because they threw the ball all the damn time.Then there is all the interceptions, his carrer TD/INT ratio is about 4/3. Which is pretty bad. Basically he has some inflated stats, doenst take care of the football, makes questionable decisions and doesnt seem to have a very good attitude.

In other words....................not that good. And how do you "know" this and Shanny doesnt?

[texasthunder]

In 2008 the Broncos were 8-5 with a 3-game lead over the rest of the division. One single win makes them division champions and puts them in the playoffs. So what happens? Over those last three games the Broncos lose ALL of them, with the mighty Jay Cutler throwing only TWO touchdowns in that 3-game span. Ah, but he also threw FOUR INTs during that same span as well...with the season on the line, and a 3-game lead on all your division rivals, you throw 2 TDs and 4 INTs...and watch as the Chargers take the division from you because your QB saves his worst games for when you need him the most.

People want to chalk those losses up to the Broncos' defense, but Cutler's nosedive in terms of production and points helped lose those games right along with the defense. And his INTs led to either short fields and points for the opposition or left points on the field because he threw them in the red zone.

Basically Cutler on the Broncos was the QB version of the Dallas Cowboys lol...put up nice numbers in September and October, then **** the bed at the end of the season when you need him the most. Has he changed?...No idea. Last year would seem to suggest that he has, but then again last year would seem to suggest that the Cowboys had changed as well...and we see where they're at now, don't we? ...And that's because the gaudy stats the Cowboys put up don't mean crap if you don't have the right temperament, mindset and intangibles to go along with those stats. The Cowboys don't have that combination, and so far in his career neither does Cutler.

Good points man-

Lets look at the tale of the tape so to speak

Week 14 they lost to a very good Panther team (12-4), Cutler was 21-33 173 yds- 1 td- 1 int- defense gave up 30 points

Week 15 they lost to the Bills (7-9) Cutler was 25-45 for 345 yds- 1 int- ran for 2 tds- defense gave up 30 points

Week 16 they lost to the Chargers (8-8) Cutler was 33-49 316 yds 2 ints -1 td- and the defense gave up 52 points.

While I agree Cutler shares some blames, it appears as tho he was giving maxximum effort, and that the defense did not show up.

[Dro89]

already calling for a new coach.. SMFH

[texasthunder]

That's because 34 and 35 year old QBs are often still productive and valuable on the field. In 2007, would you have rather had a 26 year old Todd Collins filling in for Campbell or a 36 year old Collins like we had at the time?

Getting younger just for the sake of getting younger is NEVER the answer.

But we are talking about getting younger with a QB that has the talent.

Its not like we are wanting to replace Mcnabb with a 3rd string qb that is young.

Cutler has the experience, and the potential, those tangents can not be denied.

I

[scott.sharrer]

No, McNabb isn't playing poor. We've won as many games as we won all of last year. There's a reason for that.

You can have a strong argument for this either way.

IMO yes McNabb is playing subpar. But I wouldn't say poor. Yes we already have as many wins as we did all of last season, but McNabb is not the sole reason for that. His stats for mid way through a season are far from stellar. They are barely average by his own career stats/averages. Now, do I think that it is entirely on McNabb, not at all. IMO the entire offense is playing below their potential and not one player should take the blame for the offense at this point

[skins island connection]

OK,

who grabbed the "Jason Campbell Man-love bottle and put a Jay Cutler label on it?

Still the same kool-ade, same results, and same future problems later...

[Morneblade]

But we are talking about getting younger with a QB that has the talent.

Its not like we are wanting to replace Mcnabb with a 3rd string qb that is young.

Cutler has the experience, and the potential, those tangents can not be denied.

I

The problem is that Cutler is Jeff George 2.0. And that isnt worth having around.

[texasthunder]

There is one simple fact that all trades come down to. COMPENSATION. No team will give up a player in a trade without what THEY feel is equal compensation. The low value some are putting on Cutler may not be how the Bears rate him. And vice versa. They may have a lower value of him then those on here are rating him. Basically, we can debate this THEORY all year long and still not come close to what the actual outcome will be.

Secondly, I don't agree with basing the value of a player on their stats from 2-3 years prior, even if you are trying to use the fact of who they played for (case in point with bringing in Cutler cause of Shanny). Cutler has developed and/or changed since last playing for Shanny. Plain and simple fact. They positives he had in Denver with Shanny may not be as good as they were come next season. Is he working out in Chi-town? No, will he work out here? No way to say for sure. Is he worth the risk? Only if we don't have to give the house for him. I am tired of us giving up twice the value of a player to get them. Cutler may be younger then McNabb, but a rookie QB is even younger and can be tweaked easier then an established veteran (established as in set in his way after years in the NFL) and yes IMO I would rather keep an older QB (by the way P. Manning is older then McNabb just for a reference to the age comments) and have him tutor a younger QB even if it is just on the basics of being a NFL QB.

Great points Scott !!!!!

And we all have to concider what Mistertim is saying: Does Mcnabb even want to be here next season??

He has the options unless there is some kind of tag in the new CBA.

So we could be looking at giving up those draft picks for a one and done senario.

I stll have to believe that Shanahan plan is to cultivate Beck into his future qb, and he wants Mcnabb as a mentor and place holder.

[MartinC]

I stll have to believe that Shanahan plan is to cultivate Beck into his future qb, and he wants Mcnabb as a mentor and place holder.

Shanny has forgotten more about QB play and evaluating QBs than I or anybody else on this Board know and if he sees something in Beck that makes him think he can be his QB great. I have not seen it either when he was with the Dolphins or in preseason here. Plus factor in he is 30, if he sits for another year or two behind McNabb he would be say 32 when he becomes the starter which is close to the age McNabb is now and I dont think anyone thinks he was brought in as a long term solution.

If Beck can develop into a decent back up I will be happy. I think thats his ceiling personally.

[scott.sharrer]

I stll have to believe that Shanahan plan is to cultivate Beck into his future qb, and he wants Mcnabb as a mentor and place holder.

Even if they don't have the franchise tag, I don't see McNabb leaving unless the front office tries to sign him really really low. This is why

1)He would have to learn yet another new system

2)Teams around the league are all looking for younger QBs and taking less and less chance with older QBs in the FA market (meaning they aren't as willing as 3-4 years ago to sign an aging vet QB to a large contract)

3)McNabb has one trait that pushes toward him staying...loyalty

4)If he walks, it will just add to the thought across the country that he is past his prime and will not be productive (playing on 3 teams in 3 years isn't good for a resume) and in fact the only QB I can think of who has started for 3 teams in such a short period of time is Favre.

And in regards to Beck, due to his age, I don't include him in the idea of grooming a young QB, matter of fact he is older then Cutler. I was refering more towards drafting a QB in the later rounds

[darrelgreenie]

No, McNabb isn't playing poor. We've won as many games as we won all of last year. There's a reason for that.

I don't understand how you can be a McNabb fan and claim that he's not playing poorly or if you don't like 'poorly' don't you think that McNabb could've/should've played better if not much better?

-We've won more games no doubt but its has little to do with the offense and specifically the passing game or the QB in particular.

Our perfromance on 3rd down conversion % is at or near league worst our RZ % isn't good those are two areas where a QB make their money and both are worse then last year.

We have more tunrnovers and points from turnovers thus far then we've had the enitre season.

D-Hall by himself has basically won us 2 games.

We've also got more production from special teams and the running game.

McNabb inefficiencies have limited the offense as much or more then his big plays have won us the games.

So yeah sure we've won more games but if you think its because of McNabb then i have to disagree.

Bottom line regardless of this whole absurd Cutler thing: McNabb, even with the way the team is currently constituited, is capable of playing much better.

[mistertim]

No, McNabb isn't playing poor. We've won as many games as we won all of last year. There's a reason for that.

I think you may be going out on a bit of a limb there. McNabb has been playing average, at best. Obviously, the rest of the offense takes part of the blame as well; that is the same with any QB. But I don't think McNabb was a main reason we won the games we have. I would put that more on the defense getting turnovers and scoring points. There are at least 2 games that we won solely because of a turnover made into a TD.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Actually from 2005-'08 Denver's defense was ranked #15, #14, #19, and #29. Using defensive rankings, we're currently ranked lower than they were any of those years.

Denver Broncos defensive statistics:

2007- Def points allowed: 25.6/g

2008- Def points allowed: 28.0/g

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2007.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2008.htm

[darrelgreenie]

Even if they don't have the franchise tag, I don't see McNabb leaving unless the front office tries to sign him really really low..........And in regards to Beck, due to his age, I don't include him in the idea of grooming a young QB, matter of fact he is older then Cutler. I was refering more towards drafting a QB in the later rounds

You know what my greatest fear is?

That McNabb plays well to finish the season and looks like the QB we all know he can be and still chooses to leave anyway.

-about Beck he would need to start playing within the next 2 years (probably as soone as next year) to have a shot at being a starter for us