Is Shanny Really Trying To Get Jay Cutler Back?

[00Dirty30]

I don't see it happening, but I'd love a straight McNabb for Cutler switch this offseason.

are you on PCP?????

[The Fax]

If I'm not mistaken...the Broncos were 7-4 in 2006 under Jake Plummer(despite his poor play). I'm not sure of the accuracy of this....but from what I read elsewhere the decision to bench Plummer for Cutler split the locker room and the rest of the players didn't necessarily warm up to it. The Broncos went on to lose 3 of their last 5 games and Cutler actually never made the playoffs in his tenure there.

I was reffering more to his statistical improvements. He threw for something like 4500 yards and 25 td's his last year in Denver and he was starting to mature as a leader. I also recall the Broncos offense was top 3 in the league that year, it was their defense that couldn't protect a lead to save their life.

[pilsburypgh]

I'd rather Keep Mcnabb and let Shanny go elsewhere and let The Chin be our coach.

Cowher?? I would had loved that!!

[darrelgreenie]

No, McNabb isn't playing poor. We've won as many games as we won all of last year. There's a reason for that.

I don't understand how you can be a McNabb fan and claim that he's not playing poorly or if you don't like 'poorly' don't you think that McNabb could've/should've played better if not much better?

I'm waiting to see the efficient McNabb (although i don't agree with the benching maybe it will be the wake up call he needed):

http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles/09000d5d80cdbeb7/Is-McNabb-back

[Hubbs]

I'm waiting to see the efficient McNabb (although i don't agree with the benching maybe it will be the wake up call he needed):

http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles/09000d5d80cdbeb7/Is-McNabb-back

Efficiency isn't all about completion percentage.

[KDawg]

Efficiency isn't all about completion percentage.

Correct. However, according to footballoutsiders.com (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb), they have McNabb ranked 25th in DYAR and 28th in DVOA and 17th in EYds.

Explanations of each:

DVOA and DYAR are explained here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa

EYards:

Effective Yards, listed in red, translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR.

•Passes total includes sacks and aborted snaps. Both count against a quarterback's value.

•Fumbles count the same whether lost to the defense or retained by the offense.

•Clicking on a player's name will bring you to his FO player page with advanced stats through 2009.

•Opponent adjustments are currently 90 percent of full strength and will increase each week until Week 10.

[darrelgreenie]

Efficiency isn't all about completion percentage.

I don't understand your point here.

The point of my post is that McNabb can and usually does play QB at a much higher level then we've seen thus far.*(except for the Texans game)

Who is saying that efficiency is all about completion percentage?

(I just want to talk some Redskins's football if you want to start with strawmen arguments let me know so i won't be wasting my time.)

[Hubbs]

I think you may be going out on a bit of a limb there. McNabb has been playing average, at best. Obviously, the rest of the offense takes part of the blame as well; that is the same with any QB. But I don't think McNabb was a main reason we won the games we have. I would put that more on the defense getting turnovers and scoring points. There are at least 2 games that we won solely because of a turnover made into a TD.

Are you kidding? Behind our nonexistent offensive line? He's been amazing.

[darrelgreenie]

Are you kidding? Behind our nonexistent offensive line? He's been amazing.

Well if you like confusing here's an esoteric point for you.

Right now McNabb is playing about as poorly as he's ever played in his career.

So, when i say that Cutler is playing better right now its really not saying much because almost any QB is playing better right now.

But we both know that McNabb is a much better QB then what he's shown thus far.

But, you seem to imply that McNabb is playing poorly only because of the team around him and not by any fault of his own.

(Which imo is actually a sign that you don't think McNabb is the QB he used to be if you think he isn't capable of playing much better then he has)

And if you believe that how can you explain away that last years passing game with far less talent was better in every meaningful passing metric?

(Not to mention witnessing 1st hand the late reads, late throws, off targets passes and general avoidance of the open checkdown in the face of a pass rush.)

Baldinger back-ups some of my observations with game film @ 1:36:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles/09000d5d81c10e31/Playbook-Eagles-vs-Redskins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkYLWWICfeo

I know McNabb is playing poorly and at the same time i know that McNabb is a much better QB then the levels he's playing right now.

Even though the notion that a trade would even be mentioned is absurd if it were to happen Cutler would be the better option (even if McNabb were playing well) b/c he's younger, knows the system, has a better arm and while his mechanics are very bit as inconsistent as McNabb; Cutler is still more accurate.

*Imo if you really believe McNabb isn't capable of playing better i question wether you realize how good can be.

[Wyvern]

I watched Cutler playing against the Vikings yesterday, and even in a strong cross-wind, his passes were quick and accurate. He's certainly got a wide range of passes, and throw well on the run, as well as in the pocket. Granted, it was the Vikings secondary -- but he didn't look that bad. Outside of Knox and Olsen, his receiving corps wasn't all that great, and the running game needed to be set up by the pass. For the most part, Cutler handled his role well -- with one miscue when he gambled on a pass into the endzone.

For a 5th year QB, he didn't look that bad -- and from the commentary seems be getting more mature with each game. He'd fit well in a Shanahan style offense.

That said, I don't think the Bears would let him go cheaply -- so I doubt he'll be playing for Washington in the near future. I suspect we'll still sign McNabb -- and live with the "ups & downs" of McNabb's performances..

[Hubbs]

McNabb playing poorly?

Ever heard of the notion that it all starts up front?

[Frostx08]

I was reffering more to his statistical improvements. He threw for something like 4500 yards and 25 td's his last year in Denver and he was starting to mature as a leader. I also recall the Broncos offense was top 3 in the league that year, it was their defense that couldn't protect a lead to save their life.

And 18 interceptions

Well if you like confusing here's an esoteric point for you.

Right now McNabb is playing about as poorly as he's ever played in his career.

So, when i say that Cutler is playing better right now its really not saying much because almost any QB is playing better right now.

But we both know that McNabb is a much better QB then what he's shown thus far.

But, you seem to imply that McNabb is playing poorly only because of the team around him and not by any fault of his own.

(Which imo is actually a sign that you don't think McNabb is the QB he used to be if you think he isn't capable of playing much better then he has)

And if you believe that how can you explain away that last years passing game with far less talent was better in every meaningful passing metric?

(Not to mention witnessing 1st hand the late reads, late throws, off targets passes and general avoidance of the open checkdown in the face of a pass rush.)

Baldinger back-ups some of my observations with game film @ 1:36:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles/09000d5d81c10e31/Playbook-Eagles-vs-Redskins

I know McNabb is playing poorly and at the same time i know that McNabb is a much better QB then the levels he's playing right now.

Even though the notion that a trade would even be mentioned is absurd if it were to happen Cutler would be the better option (even if McNabb were playing well) b/c he's younger, knows the system, has a better arm and while his mechanics are very bit as inconsistent as McNabb; Cutler is still more accurate.

*Imo if you really believe McNabb isn't capable of playing better i question wether you realize how good can be.

I saw that Baldinger video and though I agree that McNabb isn't playing well...I also think he didn't give a full assessment of what went on in that game or McNabb's play as a Redskin. Then again it is Baldinger, I don't expect a fair assessment from him

Playing poorly with your surrounding talent...though once again McNabb could play better isn't that far fetched. And when people say we had more talent last year I have to question that as well. What's better than last year?? The running game?? No....not yet at least

The receivers? Joey Galloway is horrible...terrible...and when you see most of McNabb's missed throws it comes from throwing to him. The numbers show that...that's fact. Anthony Armstrong has potential but has been up and down as well this season. I would take Moss and Randle El RIGHT NOW if I wanted efficiency...I would take Moss and Armstrong if I was banking on the future. But it's disingenuous at best to say we're more talented. We may have new names...but the O-line looks the same if not worse and our receiving corp did not have a 40 year old man on the field last year

And for all our statistics that we were "better" before talk...we're still averaging more points and passing yards per game than last year...and so far we're averaging LESS rushing yards per game than last year.

I watched Cutler playing against the Vikings yesterday, and even in a strong cross-wind, his passes were quick and accurate. He's certainly got a wide range of passes, and throw well on the run, as well as in the pocket. Granted, it was the Vikings secondary -- but he didn't look that bad. Outside of Knox and Olsen, his receiving corps wasn't all that great, and the running game needed to be set up by the pass. For the most part, Cutler handled his role well -- with one miscue when he gambled on a pass into the endzone.

For a 5th year QB, he didn't look that bad -- and from the commentary seems be getting more mature with each game. He'd fit well in a Shanahan style offense.

That said, I don't think the Bears would let him go cheaply -- so I doubt he'll be playing for Washington in the near future. I suspect we'll still sign McNabb -- and live with the "ups & downs" of McNabb's performances..

I watched Cutler play as well. He did well...got time in the pocket and made some throws. Granted....they could have lost if not for Favre's incompetence...especially after Cutler's redzone interception, but overall he had a good game. Let's see if he can keep it up, but I did feel like I was watching Favre and Favre Jr.

As for his receivers...honestly with the exception of Moss I'd trade for them. I was impressed by the yards after catch plays...like by Devin Hester for example. I saw Devin Hester stop...catch the ball...then run and make a bunch of guys miss. Their receiving corp have the speed and playmaking ability IF they can get open. And the O-line held up so I guess they've made adjustments

[Rodriggo]

The move is plausible but Cutler is just not going to put it together.

His ceiling is being on a juggernaut and picking his spots to make plays like a Brad Johnson with TB or a Dilfer with BAL.

He's talented but he's not a leader and not the kind of QB that is the face of your franchise.

McNabb is still that kind of guy even if he's only good enough to potentially sneak the Redskins into the playoffs for the next couple of years. Sure beats going 4-12.

Nothing is worse than being flat out bad at the QB position but the next level up is the "bat **** crazy blind gunslinger" who routinely throws 3 or 4 ints in a game and still believes he's the **** which is who Cutler is.

Plus, isn't it big enough of a red flag that he evokes comparisons to Jeff George?

If he can't get it done at Chicago, where they've NEVER had a franchised QB, then why does he continue to be considered a starting QB in this league? One that would be worthy of a heads up trade with Donovan McNabb?

[Botched]

If he can't get it done at Chicago, where they've NEVER had a franchised QB, then why does he continue to be considered a starting QB in this league? One that would be worthy of a heads up trade with Donovan McNabb?

What is "not getting it done"? The Bears are 6-3, and leading their division. Cutler has played well in all but a couple of the Bears' games this year, despite having receivers that literally can't run routes without falling down.

[Rodriggo]

What is "not getting it done"? The Bears are 6-3, and leading their division. Cutler has played well in all but a couple of the Bears' games this year, despite having receivers that literally can't run routes without falling down.

Yeah, you're probably right but I meant "getting it done" in a larger career sense, like him not being at the level of McNabb.

Granted he's got less years to work with but still. The picks, the attitude, being "traded away" already too many red flags.

Personally just not interested in this guy at all.

[tshile]

uh, cutler is a fraud.

do not want.

[Botched]

Yeah, you're probably right but I meant "getting it done" in a larger career sense, like him not being at the level of McNabb.

Granted he's got less years to work with but still. The picks, the attitude, being "traded away" already too many red flags.

Personally just not interested in this guy at all.

Ok, I hear ya. I like Cutler, but I can't really blame people who don't. He has some issues.

[scott.sharrer]

What is "not getting it done"? The Bears are 6-3, and leading their division. Cutler has played well in all but a couple of the Bears' games this year, despite having receivers that literally can't run routes without falling down.

I logged on to ES this morning with the intent of my first post being on this thread talking about how Cutler played yesterday and asking all those who have dised him on here think about his performance.

It is simple (to me) Cutler KNOWS he has great ABILITY but the problem is he lets it go to his head and he will take chances he shouldn't even consider. That is when 85% of his INTS happen. I looked back over the season, and nearly all of his INTS happened in 1 of two situations. 1) He made a throw he should never even gave a milisecond thought to or 2) the receiver couldn't keep his hands on it. With the exception of Hall when we played them, only 1 other INT was due to the exceptional play of the Defense. So you have to give Cutler credit that he is really that good, but his EGO makes him look like he really is that bad.

[tshile]

he's the modern day jeff george.

and you don't want that as your qb.

[darrelgreenie]

I saw that Baldinger video and though I agree that McNabb isn't playing well...I also think he didn't give a full assessment of what went on in that game or McNabb's play as a Redskin. Then again it is Baldinger, I don't expect a fair assessment from him

You'e right Baldinger doesn't like McNabb but it doesn't invalidate the evidence he showed.

Playing poorly with your surrounding talent...though once again McNabb could play better isn't that far fetched.

You're right in that it shouldn't be that far fethced because if you've seen McNabb play before and are watching objectively its pretty self evident that McNabb is playing below his ability level.

And when people say we had more talent last year I have to question that as well. What's better than last year?? The running game?? No....not yet at least

I think you mean people say we had less talent last year?

And i think we've had this discussion before but here are the ways we're better on offense:

McNabb is better then Campbell

Trent Williams is better then Levi Jones

Jamaal Brown is better then an injured Stephon Heyer

Having both Cooley and Davis is better then an injured Cooley and healthy Davis

Torain is better then Ganther, Cartwright

The receivers? Joey Galloway is horrible...terrible...and when you see most of McNabb's missed throws it comes from throwing to him. The numbers show that...that's fact. Anthony Armstrong has potential but has been up and down as well this season. I would take Moss and Randle El RIGHT NOW if I wanted efficiency...I would take Moss and Armstrong if I was banking on the future. But it's disingenuous at best to say we're more talented

If you want to call the WRs corps worse maybe but being able to use Armstrong as a deep threat allows Tana to be more of a weapon he's on pace for a career year

We may have new names...but the O-line looks the same if not worse

You think the OL is the same or worse? Now who's been insincere?

And for all our statistics that we were "better" before talk...we're still averaging more points and passing yards per game than last year...and so far we're averaging LESS rushing yards per game than last year.

You seem to imply that because we have more passing yards that we are a better passing offense now?

Even despite the inability to sustain drives, convert 3rd downs, and produce in the RZ?

-In the running game we're aceraging more YPC.

[scott.sharrer]

he's the modern day jeff george.

and you don't want that as your qb.

He has a lot more actual TALENT then Jeff George. Now as far as decision making, then yes I would agree. That is Cutlers down fall

[tshile]

He has a lot more actual TALENT then Jeff George. Now as far as decision making, then yes I would agree. That is Cutlers down fall

I don't know, jeff george had a lot of talent. it was his attitude both on and off the field that prevented him from being a 'better' qb.

culter will remain a fraud. the bears are currently a fraud, much like the 08 skins were a fraud. yeah, they're sitting nice and pretty with the division lead, but they have a touch schedule, and haven't played very well against good teams so far.

its a 16 game season for a reason. Lets see how the bears, and cutler, look at the end of week 17.

oh, and lets not play this stats game. individual stats do not make a team a winner.

[KDawg]

I hear a conversation about talent, this must be about Dallas

[tshile]

I hear a conversation about talent, this must be about Dallas

perfect example of how talent means almost nothing in the grand scheme of things

[ATLredskin]

Cutler always play well against the Vikings, but he will never win a SB. Favre the gun-slinger only won one SB and he had a elite supporting cast. Cutler is more likely to throw a interception towards the end of the game than a touchdown for the win. Even that one game winning drive against the Chargers some years ago he fumbled the ball to the Chargers before that play, but it was called back. I guess everyone in this thread want to be the modern day Chargers of the East or the McNabb-Reid Eagles.