CNN: 'Blackout in a can' blamed for student party illnesses

[Bang]

I too have never had it and don't really care if it's banned or taken off the market. But, if you do that, why do we sell cigarettes and grain alcohol and other things that have negative health impacts or are fine in moderation? Stickboi drinks the stuff and seems to have a handle on how to use it. The same could be said of someone who drinks 4 beers and calls it a night vs. polishing off a case of beer and passing out on the basement floor of a fraternity house.

I guess I just get sick of the "so-and-so went over the top and abused X so we're going to ban X even though the majority of people who eat/drink X are fine".

Well, if they marketed cigarettes and grain alcohol for kids they would. Society has always steppd in in areas like that.

Remember "smoking" candy cigarettes as a kid? Won't find those on any shelves anymore.

This looks to be marketed in a way that minimizes what it is towards people who are by nature very impulsive and generally too carefree to consider the potential dangers of a beverage designed to not let them feel the warning signs of alcohol poisoning.

I'm the last guy against a good party, and this doesn't seem to unreasonable to me

~Bang

[lovetoaster]

Interesting.

I don't drink much but I know quite a few people who are coffee/tea/soda-aholics and have had zero health implications.

Even my mom, who has a very weak heart has asked her heart doc about caffeine and he basically said not to worry about it.

I asked my doctor after something happened with one of my friends and he suggested that I cut down because too much can send you heart out of rhythm. At least that's what he told me. That was enough to get me to cut back.

One friend probably had six diet sodas over a 9-10 hour period went to the gym and was having what felt like shocks in his chest when he got home. Another had quite a bit of red bull and vodka one night then though he was having a heart attack on the way home. He had to pull over and call an ambulance. I don't know if it would have had any serious long term health effects, but I know it scared the hell out of them at the time.

[thebluefood]

If we're going to ban things just because they're bad for you, we might as well become a nation of vegans.

[Mickalino]

If we're going to ban things just because they're bad for you, we might as well become a nation of vegans.

No.

Ban the Vegetables.

They're full of pesticides.

[thebluefood]

No.

Ban the Vegetables.

They're full of pesticides.

Brilliant. Vegetables taste like ass.

[twa]

I would not go that far. Caffeine is a pretty bad thing for the body. I have had a few friends that did not drink coffee, but would drink a lot of diet cokes and stuff like that and red bull and vodka at when going out that have ended up at the hospital. Two friends thought they were having heart attacks when the doctor just told them they ingest too much caffeine. Everything else checked out perfectly, and they have cut down their caffeine and are fine.

Really depends on the individual,and I suspect other ingredients in these energy drinks

I drink massive amounts of caffeine drinks(and quite a bit of liquor) with no issues...course maybe all the nicotine regulates it somehow.

[RansomthePasserby]

I would not go that far. Caffeine is a pretty bad thing for the body. I have had a few friends that did not drink coffee, but would drink a lot of diet cokes and stuff like that and red bull and vodka at when going out that have ended up at the hospital. Two friends thought they were having heart attacks when the doctor just told them they ingest too much caffeine. Everything else checked out perfectly, and they have cut down their caffeine and are fine.

Yup, I've known people who thought they were having heart problems, but when they went to the doc he told them it was their caffiene intake. They cut back and haven't had heart issues since.

[Skin'Em84]

I'm not missing the point. It's a malt liquor that is 12 or 13% alcohol and has caffeine. The point, at least to me, is that you would be idiotic to drink this at all, let alone more than one of them. If you do, that's OK, but just don't act surprised when you're obliterated. It's no different than drinking a bunch of Red Bull/Vodkas or any other alcoholic drinks. Do it in moderation and switch over the beer or something.

I drink two when I want to get crazy. But I go in knowing that my life is going to suck tomorrow morning.

[Bang]

then get them to change the packaging and make them follow the same rules that beer advertisers do.

I'd more for that than an all out ban. Most likely some sort of compromise like this will be reached.

~Bang

[HailGreen28]

Brilliant. Vegetables taste like ass.

And everybody who eats vegetables, eventually dies! What's up with that? We must ban all vegetables immediately!

[adam@section118]

I have only had two four lokos, and the first one I chugged. Rookie mistake.

I also love red bull and vodka.

What drives me nuts is blaming the companies. Did they force they kids to drink?

I have done some dumb things while drinking energy drinks (remember when the energy drink "crack" was out for all of a week.) yet somehow I never seemed to blame the drink manufacturers for the stupid things I did (granted I did not do many, but there are nights I am glad my parents never found out about)

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I don't think the marketing is aimed directly at kids. What about wine coolers and equally "bright" colors and appealing packaging? It's all about getting people to pick up a can of it among a sea of brown and green bottles.

[Bang]

I don't think the marketing is aimed directly at kids. What about wine coolers and equally "bright" colors and appealing packaging? It's all about getting people to pick up a can of it among a sea of brown and green bottles.

Except wine coolers are called "Wine", and are not designed to keep you awake and drinking beyond the point of being safe. (They're designed to allow winemakers to sell their dregs )

Now, i'm all for allowing dopes who poison themselves to do so, but this product appears to suppress the body's natural warning signs of being poisoned.

That's the issue as i see it.

I remember being young and partying with my friends to all hours on pretty much any substance or drink I could grab. It didn't matter how F'd up we got,, the higher the better, the drunker the better,, as all young people I thought I was indestructible. I've got my horrible puke stories like anyone else.. but no hospital trips. Plenty of nights hugging the commode, but no hospital trips.

And reading the comments here by the 20-somethings who have tried this tells me a lot. Each of them who have had it seems to say "whoa.. this stuff will definitely lay you out"

Now if the age group that typically takes chances and loves to get ripped up is hedging on this stuff, I think that speaks volumes to what it's capable of doing to a person.

~Bang

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Except wine coolers are called "Wine", and are not designed to keep you awake and drinking beyond the point of being safe. (They're designed to allow winemakers to sell their dregs )

Now, i'm all for allowing dopes who poison themselves to do so, but this product appears to suppress the body's natural warning signs of being poisoned.

That's the issue as i see it.

I remember being young and partying with my friends to all hours on pretty much any substance or drink I could grab. It didn't matter how F'd up we got,, the higher the better, the drunker the better,, as all young people I thought I was indestructible. I've got my horrible puke stories like anyone else.. but no hospital trips. Plenty of nights hugging the commode, but no hospital trips.

And reading the comments here by the 20-somethings who have tried this tells me a lot. Each of them who have had it seems to say "whoa.. this stuff will definitely lay you out"

Now if the age group that typically takes chances and loves to get ripped up is hedging on this stuff, I think that speaks volumes to what it's capable of doing to a person.

~Bang

I haven't read all the thread, so maybe I'm commenting on something that I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying they're marketing these to kids (as in the underage type?)? If so, then I stand by my post, but if you mean twenty-somethings then I agree.

[Bang]

I haven't read all the thread, so maybe I'm commenting on something that I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying they're marketing these to kids (as in the underage type?)? If so, then I stand by my post, but if you mean twenty-somethings then I agree.

No, they aren't marketing directly to underage, they'd be shut down immediately.. the product itself doesn't seem to me to be terribly safe based in it's design and what it's intended to do.

They are marketing it so it doesn't taste like alcohol, and looks like a drink that is probably not as potent as it is, and that could appeal to the underage drinkers who's pallettes are not yet accustomed to whiskey or rum or what have you. I don't think I've ever seen a child who liked the taste of beer.. it tends to be an acquired taste.

I've got less problem with their packaging than i do with the drink itself.. young people will drink, no doubt. And underage kids will drink, no doubt. I think it's irresposnsible to market a product as potent as this in a manner that would encourage not just over-indulgence, but WAY over indulging while the natural warning signs are being suppressed by the drink itself to the point of it being dangerous enough to send people to the hospital.

~Bang

[Destino]

Yep, blame the beverage and not the kids who choose to drink it.

The investigation wasn't looking into personal responsibility, it was looking to see if someone drugged students at a party. It concluded that the reason they hit the deck was this drink and nothing some sinister rapist style plot. Not sure what the problem is here... Also if you google it you'll see the FDA and several states have been having issues with new drinks mixing large amounts of caffeine and alcohol. Clearly people need to be careful about what they consume but the purpose of the investigation was to find cause and the safety of the product has been questioned nationally.

[Bang]

So today I was making some chocolate chip cookies, and I broke a light bulb. All the glass fell in the mix, so I just kept stirring til it was ground up real fine.

Adds a bit of a crunch to the cookies, I think.

Sounds like a great marketing idea. This way, I never have to waste any broken glass again! It's eco-friendly!

And if anyone is stupid enough to eat them and die, welll, that's on them.

~Bang

[Destino]

What drives me nuts is blaming the companies. Did they force they kids to drink?

Can you, or anyone, tell me how much caffeine there is in a four loko by volume? I've searched and come up empty. Anytime people blame consumers I immediately look to see if consumers have access to information.

[Bang]

I agree,, if a company could package up crack as bubble gum and sell it in wal Mart, there would be so many of them lining up to do it your head would spin.

And they'd all do their best to package it in the most non-threatening appealing manner they could.

~Bang

[#98QBKiller]

Sounds like media fear mongering to me. Alcoholic beverages w/ caffeine have been around for a while now....Sparks, Red Bull + Vodka or Red Bull + Jager. Those drinks were very popular when I was in college a few years ago and still are.

Let's not pretend that the company that makes the drink is holding meetings on how to sabotage college kids. It's not the manufacturer's fault that the kids are getting blackout drunk. Like others have said, it all comes down to personal responsibility.

Also, how is a 24oz can that's 12% ABV equal to a six pack? Are they comparing it to the 55 calorie Budweiser or what? A six pack of regular beer is on average, 5% ABV. 6 bottles would be 72oz. Two beers at 12% ABV isn't as much alcohol as 6 beers at 5% ABV.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So today I was making some chocolate chip cookies, and I broke a light bulb. All the glass fell in the mix, so I just kept stirring til it was ground up real fine.

Adds a bit of a crunch to the cookies, I think.

Sounds like a great marketing idea. This way, I never have to waste any broken glass again! It's eco-friendly!

And if anyone is stupid enough to eat them and die, welll, that's on them.

~Bang

If you called it "Broken Glass in Chocolate Chip Cookies" on the label, then I'd mock anyone who ate it. However, if you sold them strictly as cookies, I'd see your point!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Can you, or anyone, tell me how much caffeine there is in a four loko by volume? I've searched and come up empty. Anytime people blame consumers I immediately look to see if consumers have access to information.

I'm not sure...I'm still sifting through all the "drink responsibly" propaganda on their site. That's after I had to enter my birth date just to enter the site. So, I don't believe this is a case of a company marketing to young people or taking the use of their product lightly. I would assume (maybe it's ignorant) that their can has to show the ingredients, right?

[Destino]

I would assume (maybe it's ignorant) that their can has to show the ingredients, right?

Not as far as I can tell. Found this from a college newspaper written this month:

http://www.theonlinecurrent.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=267:four-loko-are-you-crazy-4-loko&catid=57:all-news&Itemid=109

Just one 23.5-oz. can packs quite a punch. At 12 percent alcohol by volume, finishing one Four Loko is comparable to drinking three Natural Light tall boys, with one notable exception; Natural Light tall boys are completely free of caffeine and other potent ingredients. Four Loko throws in generous helpings of caffeine, taurine and guarana. How much is a generous helping?

Nobody knows. But the Food and Drug Administration wants to find out.

That’s why, last November, the FDA sent a letter to 27 companies, all of which produce and market alcoholic energy drinks, informing them the FDA planned to investigate the safety of their products. The investigation stems from two letters sent to the FDA: one from a group of scientists and the other from the attorneys general of Connecticut, Utah and Guam. All three are co-chairs of the National Association of Attorneys General Youth Access to Alcohol Committee. “The [Department of Business and Professional Regulation] does register Four Loko energy drinks for sale in the state of Florida,” said Alexis Lambert, an official with the division of alcoholic beverages and tobacco. The DBPR had no comment on the health concerns or possible illegality of the product.

By FDA standards, alcoholic energy drinks are foods with additives, and any food additive not “generally recognized as safe” (or GRAS) must obtain pre-market approval. Caffeine, up to a level of .02 percent, is GRAS in soda and similar beverages. But Four Loko is hardly a soda, and anybody who has ever tried one can attest to its higher-than-.02 percent caffeine content. Therefore, it will need pre-market approval to prove the drink is safe for consumption.

But is it safe? Logic says combining two mind-altering drugs, no matter how widely used they may be in society, is a bad idea. Available research on the topic confirms this. A recent Wake Forest study (O’Brien et al, 2008) found that consumption of alcohol mixed with energy drinks (AmED) was associated with “increased heavy episodic drinking and twice as many episodes of weekly drunkenness.” The study found that almost a quarter of students who had consumed alcohol in the past month had also consumed AmED.

The unique problem caused by drinking AmED is due to the stimulating effects of the caffeine, which make drinkers feel less drunk than they actually are. This, the attorneys general and FDA argue, leads people to drink more than they normally would, sometimes to dangerous levels.

Four Loko is special, though. The undisclosed amount of caffeine will keep you drinking and socializing further into the night, but it’s another ingredient that’s responsible for the drink’s signature effect: wormwood.

Better known as the main active ingredient in absinthe, wormwood was used as far back as ancient Egypt for medicinal purposes, but rose to popularity in 18th century France when absinthe was invented. Absinthe is currently illegal in the United States.

According to WebMD, “wormwood oil contains the chemical thujone, which excites the central nervous system.” This explains the “body buzz” one may feel after drinking a Four Loko.

But thujone isn’t all fun and games. WebMD contends that “thujone is a potentially poisonous chemical found in wormwood. Distilling wormwood in alcohol increases the thujone concentration.”

So is there actually thujone in Four Loko? Again, logic would dictate that if the drink has wormwood , and wormwood contains thujone, then there’s probably some thujone in Four Loko. That claim, however, cannot be confirmed because an official ingredients list has yet to be released.

With so many undisclosed quantities I can see why people are taking a closer look. As a consumer there is no way in hell I'd drink something that couldn't be bothered to tell me what was in it. I'll stick to whiskey.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Not as far as I can tell. Found this from a college newspaper written this month:

http://www.theonlinecurrent.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=267:four-loko-are-you-crazy-4-loko&catid=57:all-news&Itemid=109

Oh OK...well I can certainly understand forcing them to disclose that type of information.

With so many undisclosed quantities I can see why people are taking a closer look. As a consumer there is no way in hell I'd drink something that couldn't be bothered to tell me what was in it. I'll stick to whiskey.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Not as far as I can tell. Found this from a college newspaper written this month:

http://www.theonlinecurrent.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=267:four-loko-are-you-crazy-4-loko&catid=57:all-news&Itemid=109

With so many undisclosed quantities I can see why people are taking a closer look. As a consumer there is no way in hell I'd drink something that couldn't be bothered to tell me what was in it. I'll stick to whiskey.

Oh OK...well I can certainly understand forcing them to disclose that type of information.