The People Who Say "Give It Time" And "Be Patient" are just making excuses.

[petedaddy]

i guess my problem is that i don't see the foundation being built for a turnaround. what do we have on the team now to look forward to in 4 years? trent williams? orakpo? landry? maybe i'm drinking the kool-aid, but i see a lot of talent on this current team. i see that we finally have a decent qb, and have had a good defense in the past. i think the coaches have made some errors, and that there hasn't been a real direction.

[brianm23]

How was there no trade value for Andre Carter? Where are you getting that from? He had ELEVEN sacks last year!! Of course there was value for him. Instead we made him an OLB after he showed us when he was younger and more athletic that he couldn't do it! How does that make any sense?

This isn't Madden bro. It takes a team that wants that particular person and is willing to give up the compensation for it. What team is willing to part with good draft picks for a guy who's managed only 3 double digit sacks in the 10 years he's been in the league? At best, you might have a team offer a 5th rounder for him, or possibly 4th if you get some team desperate. There again, what are you doing to do with that 4th rounder? Most 4th rounders are doing good to make the team, nevertheless make a impact or start.

[Spartacus87]

i guess my problem is that i don't see the foundation being built for a turnaround. what do we have on the team now to look forward to in 4 years? trent williams? orakpo? landry? maybe i'm drinking the kool-aid, but i see a lot of talent on this current team. i see that we finally have a decent qb, and have had a good defense in the past. i think the coaches have made some errors, and that there hasn't been a real direction.

When people talk about the "lack of talent" on this team, as it currently is, truthfully, that's being too vague when put in that sense.

The "lack of talent" comes in when you consider what we're trying to establish as a team.

On offense:

We don't have the OGs or a C who can play the ZBS correctly and at a high level. Dockery is suited for a man blocking scheme and isn't very good anyway, Rabach is Rabach- just mediocre all around, and Hicks is a solid veteran swing OL but that's not good enough as a full time starter. We don't have a true breakaway RB threat on this roster, only a couple of guys who can see the ZBS cutback lanes and hit them as they open (Portis and Torrain), but both guys are slow in the open field and aren't going to take it to the house on any given carry. And our WRs are sorely lacking outside of Moss, and MAYBE Armstrong in certain roles (I won't even count Devin Thomas in this discussion since he's in No Man's Land right now as a WR). Oh, and Sellers isn't a true WCO fullback.

On defense:

We don't have any legitimate NT on the team (good luck running the 3-4 without one), and our only promising DEs appear to be Carriker and Lorenzo Alexander, but both guys are only showing flashes so far of turning into consistent DEs in this system. Fletcher looks out of place in this scheme and we have no pass rushing OLB opposite of Orakpo, which in turn neutralizes our best pass rushing OLB because he faces constant double teams because nobody gets pressure on the other side of him.

Do we have more general talent than we appear to have right now? Yeah, but not for what we're trying to do.

If we switched back to some kind of blitz heavy 4-3, plugged Haynesworth back in the middle and sat Carter and Orakpo as our bookend DEs, we'd probably look more competent on defense than we do now. But we're trying to switch to a 3-4 and after one pretty limited off-season, we just don't have the pieces to be able to run it yet.

On offense we have a lot of holes, regardless of scheme, but more specifically, we don't have the OL to run a proper ZBS yet, and that's a big part of why our running game has struggled so far and in turn, why our offense sputters pretty frequently so far.

So yeah, we have some talent on the team right now. But not the right talent for our long-term goals.

[DieselPwr44]

Fixed that for ya.

Anyone who thinks that Shanahan is stupid enough to *not* work towards long term goals for the pipe dream of taking us to the superbowl this year is a fool. And anyone here who thinks they know better than Shanahan how to build a winning team is a bigger one.

The arrogance and stupidity of so many of these threads is embarrassing to the entire Redskind fanbase.

Replace Shanahan with Norv,Marty or Gibbs and you have summed up the defense of this team for the past 20 years in a nutshell.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

i guess my problem is that i don't see the foundation being built for a turnaround. what do we have on the team now to look forward to in 4 years? trent williams? orakpo? landry?

I think even looking at the current roster isn't big picture enough. Allen and Shanahan have been making decisions for less than a year. It's pretty insignificant what players are on our team during year one. We have to give the new regime the time to make personnel decisions and build the team that they want to.

I have always believed that a professional football organization has to first decide on what it wants to be and then start adding the people to get them there. So, maybe the coaches want to build the foundation, identify the philosophy, and then fill the holes.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Also note that a trade partner would need to be okay eating the cap money of any players we trade. Now go look at AH and CP's contracts.

It takes time to live through some bad contracts that were made. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and just wait a contract out..

[mi6]

I would venture to say we have been patient for 10 plus years. Time for Danny boy and his Front Office to deliver. If not, the door is wide open for them to get out of dodge!

[Brotherz]

This isn't Madden bro. It takes a team that wants that particular person and is willing to give up the compensation for it. What team is willing to part with good draft picks for a guy who's managed only 3 double digit sacks in the 10 years he's been in the league? At best, you might have a team offer a 5th rounder for him, or possibly 4th if you get some team desperate. There again, what are you doing to do with that 4th rounder? Most 4th rounders are doing good to make the team, nevertheless make a impact or start.

And that's YOU thinking in Madden terms not me. Andre Carter for a fourth round pick is a GREAT deal when you DON'T HAVE A VIABLE POSITION FOR HIM ON YOUR FOOTBALL TEAM! Geez man. No wonder Snyder gets away with it. SOME teams actually use a fourth round pick to take a player that becomes a contributor. You're so used to cutting all the picks below #2 that you assume its better to put a player who CANNOT play in your system in there instead of getting the draft pick for him because after all, 2nd round picks are for trading, and all later round picks are a waste that will cut by our team anyway right? I feel like I need to unplug you from the matrix.

[Brotherz]

This is like demanding a broken car start again and refusing to take it in for service. You can kick the tires all day and rage endlessly about how it SHOULD run NOW... and it will still sit there on the side of the road. Give it time isn't one of several options. This isn't multiple choice. This is the problem with Dan Snyder is that he thinks win now is a choice on the table or that there is a choice at all. It's not and there isn't. This team isn't built to win now. The team was crippled by a endless succession of bad drafts and poor trades and now stands in shambles. This team isn't going to the superbowl no matter how much we demand that it does. Every fan can refuse to spend another dime on this team tomorrow and they won't win.

Building the team correctly with a long term plan in place is the only way forward.

I won't repost everything I wrote in this and other threads but I agree with you 100% in principle. The problem is we are not acting like a team rebuilding by trading away draft picks again, signing guys like vonnie holliday and company and then getting pasted in St louis by a team that IS doing it the right way by getting younger and better over time through the draft. Our FO is selling this fan base "the future is now" when it takes Mcnabb by trading away draft picks and not agreeing BEFOREHAND in principle with a contract extension for him. If we don't sign mcnabb and he walks (as he most certainly should if he wants ANY chance to ever compete for a championship) this fan base should line up outside of the redskins park with pitchforks and torches.

[brianm23]

And that's YOU thinking in Madden terms not me. Andre Carter for a fourth round pick is a GREAT deal when you DON'T HAVE A VIABLE POSITION FOR HIM ON YOUR FOOTBALL TEAM! Geez man. No wonder Snyder gets away with it. SOME teams actually use a fourth round pick to take a player that becomes a contributor. You're so used to cutting all the picks below #2 that you assume its better to put a player who CANNOT play in your system in there instead of getting the draft pick for him because after all, 2nd round picks are for trading, and all later round picks are a waste that will cut by our team anyway right? I feel like I need to unplug you from the matrix.

Again, you are too caught up in the Madden "trade a player" fantasy world. You can't just trade somebody because YOU think he has value. Other teams have to perceive that value and offer fair compensation. I mentioned a 4th, but realistically he'd never get a 4th rounder for him either. We got a pro-bowl LT (brown) for a 4th rounder so no way in hell AC is going for that much. Like I said, a dude who's only had 3 double digit (barely at that) sack totals in the course of 10 years isn't that appealing. It's people like you that overvalue the talent we have. It's far and few that teams get a "contributor or starter" from a 4th rounder. So you are willing to swap out AC (who doesn't fit the system mind you) for somebody who's going to play the position at even a lower level? Ok. Don't talk to me about Snyder bro, I'm not the one thinking our talent is going to garner some incredible draft picks like you all imagine. Trading takes TWO (emphasis on this word) teams to make a deal.

[Spooky]

I never thought this team was built to compete now. How could it be? That was lip service so we could have some hope for this season.

[Bantu]

The defense stinks now, no doubt about it, but we as fans should just try and be patient for once. We are not built to make any sort of run now, no matter how the organization tries to sell it.

Those whose patience has already worn thin need to look no further than themselves when they ponder all of Snyder impetuous acts of the past decade and beyond.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I agree that patience is necessary...and so is a rebuild.

But the new regime change juxtaposed with bringing in McNabb don't make it feel that way.

This franchise is still where it's always been....half assing a re-build while trying to sell the fanbase that they can win now.

[styx491]

It seems like there's only one rebuilding strategy most people like after a tough loss, and that's one of a COMPLETE overhaul. We are obviously several draft picks away from people a legitimate team and scheme, and even if we had sold the farm, we would still be at least one year away, maybe even one year behind. In not having a complete overhaul, we MAY be able to stay competitive and we WILL establish a winning culture (aka a professional culture very different from the past couple of years). Once we go through another off season and draft, we will be a lot better. Until then, to me it's more about establishing the rule of the Shanahans and Allen, and to change the team philosophy of the Redskins from one that the owner sets to one that the people who know how to run an NFL team set.

[FrFan]

I don't think this team was built to win now, but more likely to reverse the trend (8-8 is my prediction). About McNabb, I think he'll sign a new contract to stay here and we will probably look for a franchise QB in the upcoming draft.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

This team could start to gel as the season goes. They have vet leadership and really we shouldn't expect them to 'get it' the first couple of weeks. Shame on us as fans to expect them to be great just because we hired Shannahan and Bruce Allen is our GM now. It takes time to learn the 3-4 defense and it takes time for a new QB to get the system.

However, Here is another thought. The Redskins are NOT talented enough to win now with the current group of players and the GM and Coaching Staff must have believed that they were otherwise they wouldn't have brought in McNabb and all the other aging vets. The Redskins are probably one of the bottom in the league in terms of young talent because they will never build through the draft.

It doesn't SEEM to matter who the coach is, who the offensive coordinator is, who the defensive is run by, or who is the GM. The Redskins plain and simply lack talent to compete. The schemes change, the coaches change, the front office changes, but the product on the field looks EXACTLY like it did when Zorn was here. Hell if you want to go back further it looks like Norv and at times Gibbs II.

That is sad, depressing, and scary.

[BKSkinsFan]

Seriously tired of logging on here and seeing all these doom and gloom threads. Did they lay an egg against the Rams? Yes. Are we playoff bound? It's not looking hopeful, but who knows, it's week 3.

People seem to think since we have Shanny and Bruce, we were SUPPOSED to turn a 4-12 team into a division winner this year. Those are unrealistic expectations. Our D is a big concern right now, but they HAVE shown flashes. It is still possible for them to iron things out and improve drastically.

You point to trading for McNabb as the main reason we are built to win THIS year? What were they supposed to do, play Colt or Jason, 2 players that can't even make it for the Raiders, and give up all hope of any success this year? They are building a roster with the hopes of competition at every position. This is different from the sign the big name and let your depth suffer approach we've had for too long.

It's just sickening to come to this board where we typically get great insight and information, only to see foolish posts about how Shanny was the wrong choice, that the FO has failed, etc. Seriously, you're the same people saying that we've never had stability with Snyder around. Do you not see the hypocrisy there? This forum is great in the offseason, but perhaps during the season I should steer clear.

[pjfootballer]

Then go and be a fan of the Colts because whether you want it to or not, it's going to take time for us to build a contender.

Can we at least respond to each other with a little respect? This type of reaction is childish. If you think any loyal Redskins fan will switch teams, you're just being ignorant. I'm just tired of seeing this out of fellow Redskin fans. Jeez, we all want to win and want to celebrate a SB. I think he actually have a very valid point. I'm not saying it's right to throw in the towel after 3 games, but losing a big lead to the Texans and getting beat by a supposedly inferior opponent is what we've been witnessing for the last 18 years. We aren't Dallass fans who can just pick up and root for someone else. And to me all the complaining around here shows you how passionate we are as fans and how much we really want to win and be proud of our team. Posts like this are just adding fuel to the fire. I know you are smarter than this Steve.