The People Who Say "Give It Time" And "Be Patient" are just making excuses.

[Hail-to-da-skins-21]

Your crazy if you think this team is built to win now.......its going to take 2 or 3 more years before this team becomes a top level team before that we are a 8-8 team. We dont have any weapons on offense sides McNabb, Moss, and Cooley and only 2 of the front 7 players fit the 3-4 defense. The terrible picks from the Vinny era has finally caught up with us, People need to chill out and give it time cant blame the coaches for taking up a team with terrible players.

[Brotherz]

The coaches can only work with who they have on the roster. The FO could only make the moves they did at the time. Could they have gone after a couple of more stars, paid a lot of money for more headcases like AH? I like what was done and it's going to take a few more years to get better. We had sooooo many positions of need that they couldn't all be fixed in one season. So yes, I'm patient and will trust that the FO will make the right moves the next couple of years. They want to win now, but why be positioned to pick in the midrange when we can again pick low for a quality player. It's been a long time since our Superbowls, what's a few years more?

Don't assume because WE repeatedly sign crap that every free agent is a "headcase like AH"/ We signed two over the hill, nothing left in the tank running backs, one who was cut when he did have something in the tank for being an overt homophobe and repeated domestic violence defendant. All the while Ladanlian Tomlinson was available and is now making plays for the Jets.

Antrelle Rolle would have filled a position of need since Sean died and he hasn't done anything to suggest he is a headcase.

[Bibby]

We don't have a win now roster. Plain and simple they(old players) are just not that good. The few amount of young guys we have apparently arent that good either. I dont see how you can install youth top to bottom for our team through one draft with basically no picks. What this organization will have to do is unload a bunch of players for picks. Fans wont be happy (of course) but it will have to be done for the greater good if we want a super young team. That will honestly really prove that there is a culture change here, because that would involve Dan Snyder losing money on jersey sales from the fan favorites being shipped out for picks.

[brianm23]

This is the typical fan in action when his high hopes and expectations aren't met within his timeline.

iUy_61hkGPM

[Brotherz]

Your crazy if you think this team is built to win now.......its going to take 2 or 3 more years before this team becomes a top level team before that we are a 8-8 team. We dont have any weapons on offense sides McNabb, Moss, and Cooley and only 2 of the front 7 players fit the 3-4 defense. The terrible picks from the Vinny era has finally caught up with us, People need to chill out and give it time cant blame the coaches for taking up a team with terrible players.

Nobody is complaining about Adam Archuletta or Brandon Lloyd (who by the way had more yards and touchdowns yesterday than his entire career as a skin). Vinny didn't sign larry Johnson or Willie Parker. Vinny didn't switch to a 3-4 and put andre carter at OLB when a decade ago he has already demonstrated he cannot play that position. Vinny got Orakpo, Fletcher, Carlos, and Mcintosh, probably the only players on that defense that are worth a crap. THIS FO passed over Antrelle Rolle and LT. This FO traded away two high draft picks for a 33 year old QB without FIRST confirming they could sign him long term. This FO got rid of Hunter Smith in favor of Josh Bidwell who almost single-handledly cost us the Dallas game. This regime is rotating Lichtenshigher into the guard rotation and complettely destroying the trade value of Dockery. This FO has made absolutely worthless in any trade AH, Carter, Dockery, DT - all of whom can't perform in this system. Oh, and the Defensive system was this regime's brain trust and there isn't a single player other than maybe Adam Carriker and Laron landry who fits in it. None of that is Vinny.

Again, I praise the Trent Williams pick. I would praise the Mcnabb deal too, if we signed him to an extension but I don't see that happening.

[Brotherz]

We don't have a win now roster. Plain and simple they(old players) are just not that good. The few amount of young guys we have apparently arent that good either. I dont see how you can install youth top to bottom for our team through one draft with basically no picks. What this organization will have to do is unload a bunch of players for picks. Fans wont be happy (of course) but it will have to be done for the greater good if we want a super young team. That will honestly really prove that there is a culture change here, because that would involve Dan Snyder losing money on jersey sales from the fan favorites being shipped out for picks.

Agreed but what the hell are we waiting for. People are pissing and moaning because some of us are embarrassed by this debacle. They are saying we have no patience. But I agree with you, we need to dump a bunch of our garbage and go get young players and THEN have the horrible rebuilding season. What the hell are we waiting for? Are we just intent on ruining the trade value of every player we have? Why the hell didn't we get picks for AH, Dockery, Devin Thomas, Andre Carter. Why didn't we draft a QB, stockpile draft picks, and get young good players. THEN if we get our asses kicked by the rams we can all call for patience. You can't call for patience with this "future is now" crap after we traded our picks away for a 33 year old QB who will only be here for one year!!

[Gerald362]

Ok , so lets start addressing these one at a time

[I]

Nobody is seriously arguing that we'd be better off with Zorn or even that Shanny isn't the guy and should be for years. What SOME of us are saying is that we disagree with some of the things Shanny has done since he got here and when you start losing to teams like the freakin Rams who are lucky to get 3 wins this year (because they don't play us twice) your Napolean decisions like:

1) Joey Galloway starting when he was cut by three separate teams in the last two years and Devin Thomas is clearly more athletic And how much trouble has DT had adjusting when he has played. Bring in an experienced WR who has played well before to hopefully help teach him to learn how to do it in the NFL.........especially if it dont cost draft picks. If it doesnt work, you havent lost anything in rebuilding. Who else would you bring in that wouldnt cost anything?

2) Signing Larry Johhnson, cutting Ryan Torraine, cutting Larry Johnson, then promoting Torraine from Practice Squad over BOTH Keiland Williams and Clinton Portis in the third quarter of a blowout loss to the Rams We want new blood at RB. Torraine could be on the practice squad so you can keep working with him, so why not see what happens while he tries to develop with the team

3) Alienating your best defensive players because you insist on running a scheme that our defensive coordinator has NEVER demonstrated any competence in, and our personnel absolutely does not fit in because you visited some teams' camps after being fired for stubborness with an ineffective defensive philosophy in Denver Dont remember any of the best players *****ing about switching, other than AH and he took off half the plays last year anyway.

4) completely destroying the trade value of every single player who SHOULD be traded (andre carter, derrick dockery, albert haynesworth for example). Dont think that AC had that much trade value anyway, Dock will be OK, and AH destroyed his own value........didnt need any help there

5) ****ing and complaining about the media because this isn't Denver. Hell, I b&c about the DC media.............and have for years

start looking a bit goofy and you start moving away from "genius disciplinarian" to "stubborn dictator". He needs to turn this around. He traded our draft picks for a 33 year old QB and they haven't gotten him signed yet. We have nothing to draft with next year and no trade value anymore on the garbage we have.

[/i]

[skinpride1]

we've been rebuilding for 19 YEARS!!!!!! isn't that long enough?

[blue collar]

Don't assume because WE repeatedly sign crap that every free agent is a "headcase like AH"/ We signed two over the hill, nothing left in the tank running backs, one who was cut when he did have something in the tank for being an overt homophobe and repeated domestic violence defendant. All the while Ladanlian Tomlinson was available and is now making plays for the Jets.

Antrelle Rolle would have filled a position of need since Sean died and he hasn't done anything to suggest he is a headcase.

Exactly.

[BleedinBurgNGold]

stay away from bridges and tall buildings. We have some of the most crying, whining, fans in the league.

the hell are we supposed to do after that crap we witnessed yesterday? Say 'Oh well, we'll get em next time!'? BS! We as Redskins fans are ALWAYS next timin and I am effin sick of it, I'm tired of watching other teams who were garbage a couple years back look playoff bound while we get beat by teams that can't beat HS teams. This a sham and most fans are just sick and tired of the 'Aww shucks' attitude we are supposed to swallow year in and year out!

[Brotherz]

Im fine with a veteran teaching Devin Thomas - his name is Kennan Mcardell - the recievers coach. But if you are going to get crushed by teams like the rams anyway, maybe Devin should be on the field. Joey Galloway doesn't need to learn the hard way.

The point about Larry Johnson and Torraine was they CUT torraine - nobody picked him off our practice squad but he was vulnerable there. Two weeks later he is apparently about ot be our first string running back. How the hell does that happen in a plan with some thought to it?

I don't give a crap about them ****ing about the scheme, I care about them Playing it!! They suck! They are the WORST defense in the league man. And we bring in Adam Carriker, Kemoatu, Vonnie Holliday, but we pass on Rolle? Do you really think that is a rebuilding plan?

AH is a smacked ass. I understand. Do you think his trade value is higher right now or right before that draft in April before we demonstrated to the entire league that we HAVE to trade him?

AC didn't have trade value? He had eleven sacks last year. He has no trade value NOW!!

Dock won't be "OK" - he's getting beaten out by a guy who never started in Denver - was waived and then waived by minny last year. Kory Lichtensteiger isn't a starter in this league - at least on anyone else's team. Dockery is about to be HIS backup.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Position // Name // Age

LT Trent Williams 22

G Kory Lichtensteiger 23

RT Jammal Brown 29

TE Chris Cooley 28

TE Fred Davis 24

RB Keiland Williams 24

RB Ryan Torain 24

DE Adam Carriker 26

DE Kedrick Golston 27

NT Ma'ake Kemoeatu 31

NT Anthony Bryant 28

LB Lorenzo Alexander 27

LB Rocky McIntosh 28

LB Perry Riley 22

LB H.B. Blades 26

LB Brian Orakpo 24

CB DeAngelo Hall 27

CB Carlos Rogers 28

S LaRon Landry 27

S Reed Doughty 28

S Kareem Moore 26

[MadMonkey]

Fixed that for ya.

Anyone who thinks that Shanahan is stupid enough to *not* work towards long term goals for the pipe dream of taking us to the superbowl this year is a fool. And anyone here who thinks they know better than Shanahan how to build a winning team is a bigger one.

The arrogance and stupidity of so many of these threads is embarrassing to the entire Redskind fanbase.

Bingo....end of thread!

[BleedinBurgNGold]

This is the typical fan in action when his high hopes and expectations aren't met within his timeline.

iUy_61hkGPM

It's been almost 20 years since the Redskins were worth anything. What is YOUR timeline, good sir?

[Hail-to-da-skins-21]

Nobody is complaining about Adam Archuletta or Brandon Lloyd (who by the way had more yards and touchdowns yesterday than his entire career as a skin). Vinny didn't sign larry Johnson or Willie Parker. Vinny didn't switch to a 3-4 and put andre carter at OLB when a decade ago he has already demonstrated he cannot play that position. Vinny got Orakpo, Fletcher, Carlos, and Mcintosh, probably the only players on that defense that are worth a crap. THIS FO passed over Antrelle Rolle and LT. This FO traded away two high draft picks for a 33 year old QB without FIRST confirming they could sign him long term. This FO got rid of Hunter Smith in favor of Josh Bidwell who almost single-handledly cost us the Dallas game. This regime is rotating Lichtenshigher into the guard rotation and complettely destroying the trade value of Dockery. This FO has made absolutely worthless in any trade AH, Carter, Dockery, DT - all of whom can't perform in this system. Oh, and the Defensive system was this regime's brain trust and there isn't a single player other than maybe Adam Carriker and Laron landry who fits in it. None of that is Vinny.

Again, I praise the Trent Williams pick. I would praise the Mcnabb deal too, if we signed him to an extension but I don't see that happening.

Ok ill admit the D def gives up more yards and isnt as good as last year but they do produce more turnovers and sacks....I think once we get the right personnel we will stop giving up the yardage ...so in the long term we are better off.....As far as the Johnson and Parker signing I believe they where meant to get CP going its not like we broke bank to get them competition brings out the best of everyone.McNabb still has time to sign so we cant hold that against them yet and trade vaule for AH, Dockery, Carter and DT ?....There was NONE last year so what exactly did they destroy

[HailToTheRedskins14]

It's been almost 20 years since the Redskins were worth anything. What is YOUR timeline, good sir?

2-3 years minimum for any new coach.

Seems some peoples' timelines are 2-3 games. ****ing ridiculous, period.

[bedlamVR]

2-3 years minimum for any new coach.

Seems some peoples' timelines are 2-3 games. ****ing ridiculous, period.

You are absolutly right . 2-3 games in people are calling for Shanahan and Hasslets jobs .. it is almost like we were 12-4 last year and a punter away from the big game ... ffs

[Brotherz]

How was there no trade value for Andre Carter? Where are you getting that from? He had ELEVEN sacks last year!! Of course there was value for him. Instead we made him an OLB after he showed us when he was younger and more athletic that he couldn't do it! How does that make any sense?

And I am ok with the switch to a 3-4 ultimately. What I am not OK with is the idea that we still keep trading away draft picks for guys who look like they can ONLY be used in a win now approach and then when we get our asses kicked by the worst team in the league we all claim its rebuilding.

I appreciate the "Donovan still has time to sign" thing but I just honestly can't see it. If they announced on 106.7 that Mcnabb just signed a 4 year deal with us, I'd calm down considerably. I am growing VERY concerned about that situation however. I thought we were waiting for Brady's deal. Well that was week ago now. What the hell are we waiting for now? Its beocming increasingly apparent that we still suck and have NO running back or Wide out not named Santana Moss and Minny has all the weapons for three consecutive superbowl runs and Favre will be lucky to get to midseason. They have Mcnabb's old QB coach and a system he has played in for 11 years there.

Arizona is his home and they look good EXCEPT at QB. I think we are a distant third for his services nexy year and if this season goes the way it looks like it will, we'll be like 7th. We don't even have picks to give him weapons next year - because we gave them away . . . . FOR HIM!!

[Brotherz]

You are absolutly right . 2-3 games in people are calling for Shanahan and Hasslets jobs .. it is almost like we were 12-4 last year and a punter away from the big game ... ffs

Who is calling for their jobs? Seriously, people want to flame anyone who isn't happy with getting humiliated by the rams and we are labeled "over-reactors" etc and then someone says we asked for his job. Who said that. Give me the link to the guy who posted shanny should be fired because I must have missed it.

[Brant]

Not going to Minnesota. After 3 games, fans are on suicide watch. Crazy!!!!

I believe you, masked.

I was not happy after yesteryday either, but I'm going to "make excuses" I guess and "Be Patient" as the thread title says.

I will say it again, this is way better than Vinny and company.

[Destino]

This is like demanding a broken car start again and refusing to take it in for service. You can kick the tires all day and rage endlessly about how it SHOULD run NOW... and it will still sit there on the side of the road. Give it time isn't one of several options. This isn't multiple choice. This is the problem with Dan Snyder is that he thinks win now is a choice on the table or that there is a choice at all. It's not and there isn't. This team isn't built to win now. The team was crippled by a endless succession of bad drafts and poor trades and now stands in shambles. This team isn't going to the superbowl no matter how much we demand that it does. Every fan can refuse to spend another dime on this team tomorrow and they won't win.

Building the team correctly with a long term plan in place is the only way forward.

[Hail-to-da-skins-21]

No one on extremeskins thought AC would translate well into an OLB .....So you have to figure Shanny thought the same thing I'm sure he entertained offers but hes an older player who really benefited from AH and Orakpo. I think the best we could of gotten was a 5th rd and at that point hes much more valuable to keep than to give away for free.

And I agree if McNabb leaves after one year then its a huge mistake by the new FO. But I cant see into the future and neither can you so we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

If we sign VJ next year and get a good RB (Engram I hope) .....then we have weapons for next year so its not like we are light years away from getting weapons around McNabb.

[MustangSteve]

Your nothing but a 1 year loser, strait up screw you sissy boys! You have no idea what real Redskin fans are about!

[Spartacus87]

I think the people that seriously thought that we were going to contend this year were day dreaming. Or drinking heavily.

Despite all of the cute threads started during the off-season about how we could reasonably switch to the 3-4 with our current defensive personnel, realistically that was not going to happen. Especially without competent players in the front 3, or a legit OLB opposite Orakpo.

As well, the interior of our o-line still needs to be overhauled.

And we came in to the season hoping that Portis would somehow find his wheels again and run like he was only 23 years old.

I think the talk from Bruce Allen and Shanahan about competing now and not looking to rebuild was just to hype up the season and put fans in the seats. Anyone who took it seriously had their own honest expectations out of line.

[Theismann07]

As a life-long Redskin fan, no one has been more frustrated or eager to win than me, but this turnaround is going to take a little time. We may get to see glimpses into the future with this current team, but for the most part, we don't have the horses right now that are required to restore the pride of the organization. I am confident that it will come eventually, but in reality it ain't happening just yet. I don't believe it is making excuses, it's just the way it is at this time.

We've been so disillusioned for so long that we are salivating for a winner and a return to the Mt. Rushmore of the NFL. The changes that were made at the top of the organization was the first step to someday accomplishing this, but we can't get ahead of ourselves. These problems didn't occur overnight...they ain't gonna go away overnight. Unfortunately, there is going to be some growing pains as we climb our way back to the top. Like anyone else, I want this to happen immediately, but even I have to admit that I will need to keep my emotions in check and not let my burgundy & gold blood boil when we have setbacks like yesterday.:logo: