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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The Unseld Jr Era


BRAVEONAWARPATH
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3 hours ago, Ball Security said:

If we were able to get enough assets to move up to 3, would you take Suggs over Mobley assuming Cunningham/Green go 1/2?

 

I'm not sure.  I guess it would depend on the total haul we were able to bring home.  Let's say it's Wiseman + #3.  Does that then make Mobley a poor fit?  Does it ensure that Wiseman wouldn't be able to get on the court and we might as well flip him immediately?  My instinct would be that if Mobley and Suggs are roughly equivalent prospects, then go with Suggs to try and create that ideal Guard - Big foundation.  But if Wiseman busts and Mobley ends up being better than Suggs, then I've messed up pretty bad.

 

I haven't really been able to figure out a consensus beyond everyone seems to think Cunningham goes first and that Green seems to be the top player in the second tier.  But I would say many more places have Mobley ranked above Suggs than vice versa.  You can get into big trouble when you go away from BPA at the top of the draft in the NBA.  It's a mine field.

 

If we're just talking about the #3 pick and there is no Wiseman, then I guess I'd lean towards Mobley.  I was blown away by both of them in the tourney, but my instinct says to go for the seven footer.  You can build any kind of team around a player like him because he's a defensive anchor who can rim protect, rebound, guard switches, and has a complete offensive game with interior finishing and catch and shoot range.  He would fit in at the 4 or 5 for every team in the league, and he would make them better.

 

I don't know, maybe there is also a way to play Mobley and Wiseman together, but that feels like a stretch.

 

So I guess it would come back to how you felt about Wiseman's potential.  If we still feel he's a good prospect and a potential defensive anchor, that gives you the freedom to pass on Mobley I suppose.

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What is the likely timeframe for any deal the Wizards make.  I still feel like nothing will be done until something is announced.  I still think the odds are Beal walks for nothing.  We are still the Wizards whose greatest magic trick seem to be making opportunity after opportunity disappear.

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4 hours ago, Ball Security said:

If we were able to get enough assets to move up to 3, would you take Suggs over Mobley assuming Cunningham/Green go 1/2?

 

Interesting question. In my mind they should take those hypothetical assets and see how they can turn them into more over the next few years. Have 3 1st rounders? Maybe move back a little if someone wants to move up. Swap and pick up their 1st in 2022. 

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Man, this thread is becoming a major bummer for me. I kept coming in when I saw new replies thinking I’d see a new coach named, and finally. Now, I keep coming in to see what they got in the Beal trade…not so fast Lee Corso. Hopefully, this will become a “finally” moment soon.

 

I know you didn’t ask me, but I take Mobley at 3, without giving it a second thought. I actually think he may be the best player in the draft. I like Cunningham, and my wife is an OSU (the good one) grad, so I watched a ton of him last season. He has no weaknesses in his game, and can do it all, but he is not an elite level, quick twitch athlete, and that gives me a bit of pause.

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48 minutes ago, gbear said:

What is the likely timeframe for any deal the Wizards make.  I still feel like nothing will be done until something is announced.  I still think the odds are Beal walks for nothing.  We are still the Wizards whose greatest magic trick seem to be making opportunity after opportunity disappear.

 

The ideal timeframe would be to get this done prior to the draft, or at least in draft night.  The more likely time frame is later in the summer, where we are hoping that the teams dealing for Beal picked the players we wanted I suppose.

 

Beal hasn't requested a trade though.  There is still a chance he doesn't, but he's going to need to to let the team know ASAP if he wants out.

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There really is no time frame for a Beal trade.  Even after next season, a sign and trade is a strong possibility.  Also just extending him and keeping him is possible.

 

If he's not traded before the draft, the talk will just roll into fall, through the season, and into next spring/summer.  Even if he signs a new contract, the talk isn't going to end.  Every "good" player that is on a middling team is subjected to the same conversations.

 

The time frame is tonight until the Wizards are actually a championship contender, Beal is no longer considered a good player, or Beal is gone.

Edited by PeterMP
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Momentum is building. Please don't **** this up Shep. I think I saw there is a pre-draft press conference tomorrow by the Wiz. 

Edited by Hersh
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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The ideal timeframe would be to get this done prior to the draft, or at least in draft night.  The more likely time frame is later in the summer, where we are hoping that the teams dealing for Beal picked the players we wanted I suppose.

 

Beal hasn't requested a trade though.  There is still a chance he doesn't, but he's going to need to to let the team know ASAP if he wants out.

 

If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason, that's him wanting out.  Once he's a free agent and the only leverage the Wiz have is to facilitate Beal getting more dollars via a sign and trade, his trade value plummets. 

 

For all we know, he could forego the extra money and join a major market team like Boston where he gets to play with his friend, have a legit shot at a title (bolstered by not having to give up assets for Beal), and will have major market exposure.

 

The team just wants to avoid looking like they shipped out their star without a trade request.  That ship has sailed.  If they wanted to do that, they should've demanded that Beal sign the extension last offseason or they'll have to move on.

 

Beal effectively demanded a trade by not locking up his future.  If Sheppard has modicum of competence, he needs to get the best returns for Beal and start over.

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36 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason, that's him wanting out.  Once he's a free agent and the only leverage the Wiz have is to facilitate Beal getting more dollars via a sign and trade, his trade value plummets. 

 

For all we know, he could forego the extra money and join a major market team like Boston where he gets to play with his friend, have a legit shot at a title (bolstered by not having to give up assets for Beal), and will have major market exposure.

 

The team just wants to avoid looking like they shipped out their star without a trade request.  That ship has sailed.  If they wanted to do that, they should've demanded that Beal sign the extension last offseason or they'll have to move on.

 

Beal effectively demanded a trade by not locking up his future.  If Sheppard has modicum of competence, he needs to get the best returns for Beal and start over.

Not sure this is about Tommy's competency honestly.

 

Personally, I think this is all about Ted.

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44 minutes ago, bearrock said:

If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason, that's him wanting out. 

 

Not necessarily.  One reason for him to wait until next season to make a decision about whether to stay or not is to get that 10 year vet 35% 5 year supermax contract.  It's to his advantage to wait until next summer to sign (assuming he doesn't suffer a catastrophic injury like Wall did in the meantime).  But it certainly isn't to our advantage to wait on that day.

 

I think Beal is on the fence based on Fred Katz's article about him.  Beal likes having pull and equity in this organization and doesn't want to lose that, but he certainly wants to win.  I think he'll put off making a decision until next season unless we force his hand now.  I think we need to get him in the building and tell him we either need a long term commitment from him this summer or we're going to have to trade him.  Of course that could be the thing that forces him out of the door, but we need to be able to make long term plans this summer.

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9 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

A. Wiseman, Wiggins, 7, 14.

B. Hunter, Okongwu, Bogdonavic, 20, ‘23 1st


I think A has a much higher ceiling, but also a lower floor. I’d go with A given the buzz on Unseld and player development.

 

If those are the only two serious offers we can get before the draft, then I might wait until after the draft to pull the trigger.  I think those offers will still be on the table later in the summer.  The urgency to get a deal done before Thursday for me is about trying to get to 3 or 4 to get Mobley or Suggs, and if that's not on the table, then I don't really see the need to rush through this process.

BTW, is anyone else bothered by the fact that Draymond Green and Kerr were blatantly tampering with Beal at Team USA camp?  That's why this **** has come up this week.

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19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If those are the only two serious offers we can get before the draft, then I might wait until after the draft to pull the trigger.  I think those offers will still be on the table later in the summer.  The urgency to get a deal done before Thursday for me is about trying to get to 3 or 4 to get Mobley or Suggs, and if that's not on the table, then I don't really see the need to rush through this process.

 

Whether any deal is on the table later this summer very much depends on what other teams do.  If Portland decides to tear it down, a deal like that for Beal might not be there later.  Maybe Toronto decides to pull the plug and GS decides to make a deal for Lowry.  Maybe 7 and Wiggins get shipped for Lowry.

 

(A combination of Siakim, Wiggins, Wiseman, and the 4th pick might be an interesting core for Toronto.)

 

There seem to be more teams on that line of being buyers or sellers than ever before.

 

(I think in general in sports there seems to have been a shift to winning a championships.  Just being a regular playoff team with a very longshot at a championship in a city like Portland or Milwaukee is no longer enough.)

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1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

Whether any deal is on the table later this summer very much depends on what other teams do.  If Portland decides to tear it down, a deal like that for Beal might not be there later.  Maybe Toronto decides to pull the plug and GS decides to make a deal for Lowry.  Maybe 7 and Wiggins get shipped for Lowry.

 

(A combination of Siakim, Wiggins, Wiseman, and the 4th pick might be an interesting core for Toronto.)

 

There seem to be more teams on that line of being buyers or sellers than ever before.

 

(I think in general in sports there seems to have been a shift to winning a championships.  Just being a regular playoff team with a very longshot at a championship in a city like Portland or Milwaukee is no longer enough.)

 

I think Lowry is a FA.  Things could change, but I read that Lillard doesn't want to play for GS, which is why they're focused on Beal instead of him.  I'd be surprised if Atlanta gave up their core of young talent for him too.  The reason Lillard is so much less desirable for a team like ATL (and GS to a lesser extent) is that he's three years older than Beal and he doesn't play off the ball like Beal can.  He's a much more awkward fit for a team built around Curry or Trae Young than Beal is.

 

I think Toronto might be the only team that could undermine Beal's market, by deciding to blow it up and trade Siakam.  Otherwise I think GS holds out for Beal.

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15 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think Lowry is a FA.  Things could change, but I read that Lillard doesn't want to play for GS, which is why they're focused on Beal instead of him.  I'd be surprised if Atlanta gave up their core of young talent for him too.  The reason Lillard is so much less desirable for a team like ATL (and GS to a lesser extent) is that he's three years older than Beal and he doesn't play off the ball like Beal can.  He's a much more awkward fit for a team built around Curry or Trae Young than Beal is.

 

I think Toronto might be the only team that could undermine Beal's market, by deciding to blow it up and trade Siakam.  Otherwise I think GS holds out for Beal.

 

Lowry is a FA, but a sign and trade is a reasonable way for him to be moved.  If he can't the money he wants for a team based on their cap space, a sign and trade is certainly a possiblity.

 

And Beal might be GS's preferred option but that doesn't mean if what they feel is their best offer is denied that they won't move on.  

 

Even McCollum (certainly a guy that is used to playing off ball) for Wiggins and Wiseman makes the #7, Wiggins, and Wiseman for Beal trade off the table and might be a move Portland would make in hopes of keeping Dame happy.

 

And might be a move GS would make if they feel that Wiseman is a bust and their best offer for Beal is declined.

 

(There's also talk that Miami might be willing to let go of Herro now.  Would Riley take a swing on Wiseman's upside and do some sort of package where they ship Herro out for Wiseman?  Pacers could not be just be buyers (trying to get Beal), but they could also turn into sellers.)

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14 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Lowry is a FA, but a sign and trade is a reasonable way for him to be moved.  If he can't the money he wants for a team based on their cap space, a sign and trade is certainly a possiblity.

 

And Beal might be GS's preferred option but that doesn't mean if what they feel is their best offer is denied that they won't move on.  

 

Even McCollum (certainly a guy that is used to playing off ball) for Wiggins and Wiseman makes the #7, Wiggins, and Wiseman for Beal trade off the table and might be a move Portland would make in hopes of keeping Dame happy.

 

And might be a move GS would make if they feel that Wiseman is a bust and their best offer for Beal is declined.

 

(There's also talk that Miami might be willing to let go of Herro now.  Would Riley take a swing on Wiseman's upside and do some sort of package where they ship Herro out for Wiseman?  Pacers could not be just be buyers (trying to get Beal), but they could also turn into sellers.)

 

If Golden State is willing to sell off Wiseman for cheap because they think he's a bust, then the Wizards would be dodging a drone strike by not rushing into a trade for him.

 

Golden State is savvy.  I don't think they'll sell off their trade assets for anything short of a piece that puts them into honest title contention, and I think there are exactly three moves they can make this summer that do that: Beal, Lillard, or Siakam.  Not McCollum, not Herro, not Myles Turner, not any of the other role player acquisitions they could try and make.  Of the three viable options, Beal is the most attractive to them by far.  He's better than Siakam and more directly addresses their need for offensive creation.  And he's a better fit than Lillard, plus Lillard might have taken himself off the table for them.

 

One of the worst ways that the Wizards can play this situation is to underestimate Beal's value and the durability of his market.  He is the most valuable asset on the market this summer other than maybe the #1 overall pick.  There are going to be good offers for him through the summer.

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Mobley and Wiseman could easily play together. I mean, if Wiseman wasn't a total bust, which he definitely is already because something something something. 

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3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If Golden State is willing to sell off Wiseman for cheap because they think he's a bust, then the Wizards would be dodging a drone strike by not rushing into a trade for him.

 

Golden State is savvy.  I don't think they'll sell off their trade assets for anything short of a piece that puts them into honest title contention, and I think there are exactly three moves they can make this summer that do that: Beal, Lillard, or Siakam.  Not McCollum, not Herro, not Myles Turner, not any of the other role player acquisitions they could try and make.  Of the three viable options, Beal is the most attractive to them by far.  He's better than Siakam and more directly addresses their need for offensive creation.  And he's a better fit than Lillard, plus Lillard might have taken himself off the table for them.

 

One of the worst ways that the Wizards can play this situation is to underestimate Beal's value and the durability of his market.  He is the most valuable asset on the market this summer other than maybe the #1 overall pick.  There are going to be good offers for him through the summer.

 

I wouldn't bet on it.  The Wizards don't have a good track record of being a well run organization.  They have a history of holding onto players that they should have traded.  I wouldn't bet on teams waiting for the Wizards to make the smart decision, and I think there is going to be a lot of pressure to make a move.

 

I don't think anybody is going to hold onto assets to trade for Beal if the Wizards are turning down reasonable offers waiting for the Wizards to come to the right decision.

 

And those players don't lose value if the somebody like GS trades for them.  CJ McCollum has value now and if GS trades for him, he still have value.  The 7th pick also have value.  If the league values McCollum less than Beal, then GS could get McCollum for less and turn the 7th pick into another piece.  Same with Herro.


(I also think you are over valuing Beal vs. the likes of McCollum.  I generally think you over value Wizards players.  Saw that with Porter who ended up being traded for much less than you were calling for.  Remember, anybody trading for Beal is getting a guy that can be a FA  that's looking at signing a huge next contract.  Unless Beal signs an extension before the trade, anybody trading for Beal is depending on him signing a contract and does risk losing him for nothing.  McCollum's got three more years on his contract and likely making less than Beal is going to want.  Beal might be the better player, but McCollum likely comes at a lower price and with less risks.)

 

It is a line to walk.  Holding him could increase his value, but if it turns out there are a lot sellers on the market (If Portland, Toronto, and Indiana all decide to tear it down and sell their pieces) his value could decline and you might get more for him moving him sooner rather than later.  A market that has the likes of Lillard,McCollum, Lowry, Siakim, and Brodgon on the market might be an issue getting the most for him.

Edited by PeterMP
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  • BRAVEONAWARPATH changed the title to The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The Unseld Jr Era

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