The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Gator Bait]

I'm not sure of the exact situation that took place in Denver. Maybe it was crappy management? They did bring in Allen Iverson who only gave them 1 moderately productive season.

Cleveland and Toronto, I think everyone can agree aren't attractive destinations.

DC isn't Miami but it has a good sized market. People will know the superstar of a Washington DC sports team.

Cleveland over payed Mo Williams to be LeBron's side kick...they also had that Ben Wallace contract for a while...they seem to have been in cap hell the whole LeBron era. Toronto was cheap and is in a different countries which is unattractive to a lot of players.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I never like Toronto in the NBA. I never thought it was a good fit in the league. In fact, Canada is one of the worst places for basketball IMO. They like hockey first, then CFL 2nd. I'd love to see Seattle get the Sonics back in the form of the Raptors.

And I'm glad the season might be cancelled. This is the one league that it doesn't matter to me.

So why post about it?

And Canada's problem is that it's hard to sign free agents when they end up having to pay so much more in taxes.

Edited October 13, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[No Excuses]

The Cap hell was self induced for Cleveland. Cleveland had enough salary cap to take on contracts from other teams. They made knee jerk horrendous decisions. It is hard to attract superstar free agents, no matter what city you play in. Besides the last FA with Amare etc., it's rare you see the big name players move around.

However, when you lose homegrown talent like Boozer, and eventually LeBron, it speaks to the quality of your market. Toronto has struggled to keep its own superstars as well, starting with Tracy McGrady, eventually to Vince, and then Bosh. These are markets no one is really interested in playing for. It wasn't necessarily management being cheap, but if the players are not interested in staying in your market, the NBA does not have a protective system like the NFL does.

Cross team superstar movement is generally in the form of trades. Either way, the Wizard are in a good position. We have a good stable of young talent that can be traded as well as cap room and the market to possible attract big name FA's.

Edited October 13, 2011 by No Excuses

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

http://johnchidleyhill.com/?p=286

Toronto has two strikes against it for most professional athletes

This summer could be particularly heart-breaking for fans of the Toronto Raptors as they face the prospect of forward Chris Bosh, arguably the best player the team has ever seen, leaving the city as a free agent.

Toronto Blue Jays fans can sympathize with their basketball neighbours – this summer they lost ace Roy Halladay in a lopsided trade with the Philadelphia Phillies and Seattle Mariners.

It’s a familiar story for Torontonians. One of their teams will draft a player who becomes a star, but the franchise player eventually begins to grumble and complain about greener pastures, eventually demanding a trade or letting their contract expire and moving on via free agency.

Fortunately, NBA All-Star Tracy McGrady, a former Raptor, was in town and shed some light on the topic during a shoot-around with his teammates on the New York Knicks.

“Some guys do it for different reasons,” McGrady said. “[bosh has] been here for quite some time now, and he's personally been successful. The team really hasn't done that much.”

And that’s the problem – teams in Toronto struggle against American competition. There are two main reasons for this:

1. The taxes in Canada limit team’s options when it comes to free agency.

Any professional athlete in a major sport (basketball, baseball, hockey) is going to earn in the high six figures.

In the United States, that would put them in the highest tax bracket, where they’d have to pay about 4.3% of their annual income to the federal government.

Employees in Canada who earn more than $126,264 pay 29% of their annual income to the federal government.

That is a jarring disparity. An athlete who earns $10 million per year on the Blue Jays or the Raptors would have to pay $2.9 million to the taxman. In the United States that same athlete would have to pay $430,000.

It’s tough to compete with other teams for prized free agents when they player will be losing 29% on the dollar just for signing on the dotted line.

2. Teams in Toronto offer less media exposure, making it a less attractive option for players.

Toronto is the biggest media centre in Canada, and actually stacks up pretty well against other North American cities in terms of population (fifth largest city, eighth largest metropolitan area).

However, sports teams based in Toronto get the short end of the stick when it comes to being televised on American networks.

Without a high profile in the United States an athlete can’t capitalize on their secondary source of income – endorsements and sponsorships. For example, Chris Bosh was drafted in 2003, the same year as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Carmelo Anthony. However, Bosh doesn’t even rank in the top 15 for jersey sales, and neither does Toronto for team sales. By comparison, all of Bosh’s draftmates rate highly on the list, even though they play for teams in smaller markets.

It all boils down to money. Professional athletes lose significant amounts of income from both of their main revenue sources, which makes Toronto a tough sell.

Some of you may be wondering why I haven’t mentioned hockey, a sport that has six teams in Canada? Simple, really.

Most hockey players are Canadian, and so they’re used to heavy taxation. The second largest group of players in the National Hockey League are European, who are also used to high taxes.

Beyond Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin, most players don’t expect, hockey players aren’t expecting much revenue from endorsements and sponsorship.

Also, the fact that there are six Canadian teams mitigates the lack of coverage in the United States - ESPN can ignore the Raptors and Blue Jays because they’re the only Canadian teams in the league, but when there’s at least one Canadian team playing every night and every franchise prominently features athletes from Canada, they’ve got no choice but to acknowledge non-American teams.

As an aside, all this adds to the fact that the Buffalo Bills, or any other team NFL team, would not work in Toronto.

All this is to say that in leagues where there is only one Canadian team (NBA, MLB and the MLS) there is a nearly unique set of challenges that face franchises based in Toronto. When the Raptors, Blue Jays and TFC struggle in the standings and begin to lose marquee players, it’s probably because they’re not grappling with the reality of the market.

Sure, a team can draft a young prospect, but it’s tremendously difficult to put together a team that can contend for the championship when so many players see Toronto as an undesirable city to play in.

Edited October 13, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[endzone_dave]

So in the last big round of free agency, how come no good players decided to come to DC? We had the cap space. Plus this team has a budding superstar, plus it's supposedly heading in the right direction, plus it's a in a big metropolitan area? Gee, how come the Wiz couldn't land anybody good?

[Destino]

So in the last big round of free agency, how come no good players decided to come to DC? We had the cap space. Plus this team has a budding superstar, plus it's supposedly heading in the right direction, plus it's a in a big metropolitan area? Gee, how come the Wiz couldn't land anybody good?

I don't remember the wizards actively seeking any big name free agents last year. The team was trying to get younger and build through the draft and showed no interest in any big names. Plus the salary cap situation is now much different.

No longer with the team:

Josh Howard 3,000,000

Yi Jianlian 4,050,499

Maurice Evans 2,500,000

Al Thornton 2,414,196

Rashard Lewis is on his last fully guaranteed year of his contract. 2012/2013 has a minimum of 10 million guaranteed (which is a far cry from the 21 million he currently has).

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

^^^ That

And he's right: the Wizards made absolutely no attempt at any of the big name FA's last year. We weren't in a place where they were what we needed. We were trying to to get young and get young quick. John Wall was still just a #1 pick with obvious talent--not the established future star that he now is. We were--and still are--trying to build a team that would grow WITH him. And ****, we were still stuck with Gilbert. That definitely needed to be cleared up before anything.

Seriously man, you're simply being negative nancy based on the events of an era that is now dead and long gone. Things are looking up and it's a good time to get on board.

Edited October 13, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[RonArtest15]

Dude should pay attention to how Leonsis built the Caps....same concept w. the Wizards. EVERYTHING revloves around Wall. Only a matter of time before this team turns it around.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Dude should pay attention to how Leonsis built the Caps....same concept w. the Wizards. EVERYTHING revloves around Wall. Only a matter of time before this team turns it around.

Exactly. And Wall is the type of player that other players want to play with (see my sig). He's a pass-first PG who loves making his teammates look good, can take over games himself, and has the heart of a champion. He's a winner. Period.

---------- Post added October-13th-2011 at 01:40 PM ----------

Can you imagine if we had taken Turner instead of Wall? Because we planned on keeping Gilbert? Thank God they didn't **** that up.

Edited October 13, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[endzone_dave]

^^^ That

And he's right: the Wizards made absolutely no attempt at any of the big name FA's last year. We weren't in a place where they were what we needed. We were trying to to get young and get young quick. John Wall was still just a #1 pick with obvious talent--not the established future star that he now is. We were--and still are--trying to build a team that would grow WITH him. And ****, we were still stuck with Gilbert. That definitely needed to be cleared up before anything.

Seriously man, you're simply being negative nancy based on the events of an era that is now dead and long gone. Things are looking up and it's a good time to get on board.

I don't think I'm being a negative nancy, just being objective about that this team has. Wall is awesome, no doubt. Nick Young is very good, I'm a fan of his. Blatche is worthless. I thing McGee will ALWAYS be a work in progress. Crawford has a long way to go from just chucking up shots to being a good player. I hope Vesely is good, I have no idea. Everyone else is just filler.

Not sure if this team is going to win 50 games any time soon.

And if I'm wrong, I'll be happy to eat any crow you put on my plate. I'd love for the Wizards to be good.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Nobody is arguing differently man. I think most of us would actually prefer that we are in the lottery again next year. Nobody thinks this is a complete team or a finished product. There's still a loooong ways to go. But we're going. And that's what we're happy about. Things are looking up. And we're doing it right. We're not trading youngsters for past-their-prime former stars. It's the opposite. We're not dumping draft picks, we're collecting them. We're building a team the right way and we finally have a star--our own star--to build around. It'll probably take three years to be in a position to contend, but we will contend.

And Wall isn't leaving and free agents aren't going to be allergic to DC--that was what my beef was about.

[RonArtest15]

Exactly. And Wall is the type of player that other players want to play with (see my sig). He's a pass-first PG who loves making his teammates look good, can take over games himself, and has the heart of a champion. He's a winner. Period.

---------- Post added October-13th-2011 at 01:40 PM ----------

Can you imagine if we had taken Turner instead of Wall? Because we planned on keeping Gilbert? Thank God they didn't **** that up.

I remember leading up to the draft that there were folks actually advocating the Wizards taking Turner #1 overall....jeez. SMH

Turner's ceiling is Boris Diaw. It's no knock on Turner, but I just don't see him being more than a good #3 option who can facilitate the offense in the half-court.

Going back to the Wizards, DC will be a good FA destination because of Wall. Like you said, he's a pass-first PG and dudes will be clamoring to come here in due time to play with him. I love the young core, call me crazy, but this team will be fighting w. Chicago in 3-4 years as one of the top dogs in the EC. I think squads like Atlanta, Orlando etc. have plateaued...C's will be falling apart (unless they get Dwight), and I'm not sold on Melo/STAT in NY (they'll score in buckets, but until they BOTH commit to defense, it will be more of the same...*overrated...clap, clap, clap, clap.)

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I remember leading up to the draft that there were folks actually advocating the Wizards taking Turner #1 overall....jeez. SMH

Turner's ceiling is Boris Diaw. It's no knock on Turner, but I just don't see him being more than a good #3 option who can facilitate the offense in the half-court.

Three or four times an hour, every hour leading up to the draft, WJFK was playing some promo of callers debating whether to take Wall or Turner. That POS was driving me crazy. No way Wizards fans can be this stupid. Of course they weren't, WJFK was just milking a couple of dumbass calls for all they could--the vast majority wanted Wall. Totally agree with you on Turner's ceiling. He'll be a good player but he will never be a franchise player like Wall. You could see it this year. Turner--a 21-year-old college junior--was leaps and bounds behind the college freshman John Wall. The difference is obvious. One is a future star, the other is a nice piece.

And of course I agree with your assessment of the Eastern conference. Though you did forget our division rivals Miami. I'm curious to see how they shake out after any type of restructuring of the league and how teams do business, i.e. the salary cap and player contracts.

[RonArtest15]

Three or four times an hour, every hour leading up to the draft, WJFK was playing some promo of callers debating whether to take Wall or Turner. That POS was driving me crazy. No way Wizards fans can be this stupid. Of course they weren't, WJFK was just milking a couple of dumbass calls for all they could--the vast majority wanted Wall. Totally agree with you on Turner's ceiling. He'll be a good player but he will never be a franchise player like Wall. You could see it this year. Turner--a 21-year-old college junior--was leaps and bounds behind the college freshman John Wall. The difference is obvious. One is a future star, the other is a nice piece.

And of course I agree with your assessment of the Eastern conference. Though you did forget our division rivals Miami. I'm curious to see how they shake out after any type of restructuring of the league and how teams do business, i.e. the salary cap and player contracts.

Brain fart in missing Miami LOL...

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Brain fart in missing Miami LOL...

I wish I could forget that they exist. I'll take that brain fart everyday.

[No Excuses]

The effect of a hard cap on Miami will be interesting. They will have two options to improve the depth of their team:

1. Spend a lot of resources on developing draft picks.

2. Get rid of one of the big 3. It would come down to Wade or Bosh. Realstically, it would make sense to get rid of Wade. Bosh despite his flaws, is still a top level 2nd tier big man. It would make a more balanced team, Wade is THE face of Miami sports so getting rid of him will have a PR hit. But how much will the fans care when LeBron and Bosh are still leading them to 60+ wins and they have better depth going into the playoffs?

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

The effect of a hard cap on Miami will be interesting. They will have two options to improve the depth of their team:

1. Spend a lot of resources on developing draft picks.

2. Get rid of one of the big 3. It would come down to Wade or Bosh. Realstically, it would make sense to get rid of Wade. Bosh despite his flaws, is still a top level 2nd tier big man. It would make a more balanced team, Wade is THE face of Miami sports so getting rid of him will have a PR hit. But how much will the fans care when LeBron and Bosh are still leading them to 60+ wins and they have better depth going into the playoffs?

Wade is the best player on that team...he actually shows up every game unlike Lebron and Bosh.

I hope a hardcap is put in :fingersx:

[RunClintonRun26]

The effect of a hard cap on Miami will be interesting. They will have two options to improve the depth of their team:

1. Spend a lot of resources on developing draft picks.

2. Get rid of one of the big 3. It would come down to Wade or Bosh. Realstically, it would make sense to get rid of Wade. Bosh despite his flaws, is still a top level 2nd tier big man. It would make a more balanced team, Wade is THE face of Miami sports so getting rid of him will have a PR hit. But how much will the fans care when LeBron and Bosh are still leading them to 60+ wins and they have better depth going into the playoffs?

While it makes much more sense to get rid of Wade (if your scenario becomes true), Miami would sooner ship out Bosh just because of Wade's standing in Miami (as you rightly mentioned).

God I hate that "team."

Regarding the idea of big-time FA coming to D.C., I absolutely believe that Leonsis will sign a top-tier guy in the next three years, as the prospect of playing with Wall will surely lure any NBA player who wants to win. As much as GACOLB praises Wall, he STILL is under-selling him. That's how good this kid is. I think that whatever new agreement is reached in the NBA, the salary structures will be changed (for the better). The days of bums (I don't have the time, patience or discipline to control my anger in listing all the players who qualify) will be gone. NBA players will have to shift their priorities from money to winning. Consequently, the Zards will be that much more appealing, as we could offer reasonable contracts AND the chance to play with a legitimate young STAR.

I am so torn with the NBA right now. Not as far as missing it goes, as I am going to severely miss watching games. Plus, I would like to continue to watch my wizards grow and mature around such a dynamic player like Wall. My conflict though comes in my HATRED for Le**** and the gang. I honestly feel that this would be the year the won . . . so I can go to sleep at night with a smile on my face knowing he still doesn't have a ring . . . but is instead STILL travelling at the Verizon Center.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

As I said before, I honestly think Wall is the best PG the league has seen since Isiah Thomas. He's that good. A HOF-caliber player.

And I think that one of Howard, Griffin, or Cousins will be coming here in the next couple of years.

[Warhead36]

Cousins is a headcase, but I think Wall could corral him(kinda like what MJ did with Rodman or Kobe with Artest).

Howard won't come here. He's either staying in Orlando or going to LA.

Griff won't be a FA for a while so who knows, but the Clippers look like they could be contenders real soon with all that young talent. Don't see him leaving that...

[ACW]

I wish Durant hadn't resigned and would come here

**** that lying ******* Clay Bennett.

[AboveLegit]

Anyone that has insider care to post this article here?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=7084295&_slug_=nba-why-john-wall-jason-kidd&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fstory%3fid%3d7084295%26_slug_%3dnba-why-john-wall-jason-kidd

Would be greatly appreciated

[No Excuses]

While it makes much more sense to get rid of Wade (if your scenario becomes true), Miami would sooner ship out Bosh just because of Wade's standing in Miami (as you rightly mentioned).

If it comes to that decision, I think a few factors will play in.

1. Trade value. Wade will bring more in return than Bosh. Bosh is a 2nd tier player, not capable of being the dominant figure of the team so teams will not really trade much for him. Wade can fetch quality in return.

2. Like I said earlier, the PR hit would be short term. After the trade there would be a huge overreaction by the Heat fan base. Then the regular season will start and they'll have a 60+ win team that will look much more cohesive, and have much more depth.

Under any circumstance, I can't see Wade, LeBron and Bosh being a championship trifecta. The skillsets just don't mesh well together at all. Wade and LeBron are not off ball players and that is extremely tough in critical 4th quarter situations when the pace of the game slows down. IMO the reason teams like San Antonio and Boston have been succesful with big "threes" is because of at least one excellent off ball player (Ginobili and Allen).

[RunClintonRun26]

If it comes to that decision, I think a few factors will play in.

1. Trade value. Wade will bring more in return than Bosh. Bosh is a 2nd tier player, not capable of being the dominant figure of the team so teams will not really trade much for him. Wade can fetch quality in return.)

Wade certainly has more value than Bosh. No arguing there.

2. Like I said earlier, the PR hit would be short term. After the trade there would be a huge overreaction by the Heat fan base. Then the regular season will start and they'll have a 60+ win team that will look much more cohesive, and have much more depth.

I disagree with you though on the PR hit being felt just in the short term. Remember, Miami is a front-runner city, without real basketball fans. Hell, the AAA wasn't even regularly sold out throughout most of the beginning of the season. They NEED the star power. They needed to court Lebron and Bosh, and create the situation where all three douchebags are on the court at the same time. And Wade is THE "star" down there. When people are actually at games, most of them wear those "Miami Wade County" T-Shirts or stuff like that. He is arguably the biggest athlete Miami has had since Dan Marino. If Miami ever traded him, the fan base would be pissed. And losing Wade would weigh more than getting 60+ wins down there.

Under any circumstance, I can't see Wade, LeBron and Bosh being a championship trifecta. The skillsets just don't mesh well together at all. Wade and LeBron are not off ball players and that is extremely tough in critical 4th quarter situations when the pace of the game slows down. IMO the reason teams like San Antonio and Boston have been succesful with big "threes" is because of at least one excellent off ball player (Ginobili and Allen).

Throughout most of the season I agreed with you that they cannot win a championship as presently constructed . . . and then the playoffs came. Despite the team's flaws - which they have an abundance of - the team was in the finals and could have very well won, had it not been Dirk in Game 2. I actually believe that Wade and Lebron CANNOT play with other "stars," as one is too selfish and the other one is just a baby. As you alluded to, they have to dominate the ball, and cannot excel in half-court offenses, especially when the other has the ball.

From a basketball standpoint, the team would win if they traded Wade and got pieces to adequately surround Lebron and Bosh. But there is no way in hell they would ever trade Wade. In all likelihood, if a hard-cap is imposed and the team needs to get under, they will trade Bosh . . . and then Miami will suffer in the win column.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Anyone else see McGee made a fool of himself? Had Derek Fisher calling hiim out on being an ignorant fool, and the rest of hte players reps laughing at him, all on camera for the whole world to see. Seriously, kid is just dumb. If there'a any hope, this'll motivate him to stop coming up with lame nickanames (Pierre or whaefer) and start working on being a man. If there will ever be turning point for him, it'll be now.