The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[SiCkSoULjA]

Anyone else see McGee made a fool of himself? Had Derek Fisher calling hiim out on being an ignorant fool, and the rest of hte players reps laughing at him, all on camera for the whole world to see. Seriously, kid is just dumb. If there'a any hope, this'll motivate him to stop coming up with lame nickanames (Pierre or whaefer) and start working on being a man. If there will ever be turning point for him, it'll be now.

I would rather another player in the league say that other than our man JaVal, hes basically been called out by the Union as a idiot. But get real what he said more likley than not he maybe spoke more for himself than anybody but I am willing to bet at least 20% are ready to fold, and as weeks go by thats going too double. The union and Fisher is playing damage control here, and trying too keep the "UNITED FRONT". I am happy that there are breaking but man JaVale come on man, if your ready to break then get a group together and come together as 1 and speak your issues.

What pisses me off more is the bullcrap thats coming out these players mouth MELLO and AMARE about possibly forming your own league what kind of bull**** is that? First of all its impossible, and second of all lets say you are sucessfull they would be lucky to have 10 teams of 12. That right there is hilarious! REALLY what about all the other players in the league you know the MAJORITY of guys who are roll players they would have no job. While the rich which the stars would make up less than 10% of the league would still be making there money. Its the whole rich get richer and the poor well they have no job. Thats why they won't be united because they can afford too take the hit while others who are making the minium won't how are they suppose to pay for that brand new Ferrari?

[chipwhich]

I would rather another player in the league say that other than our man JaVal, hes basically been called out by the Union as a idiot. But get real what he said more likley than not he maybe spoke more for himself than anybody but I am willing to bet at least 20% are ready to fold, and as weeks go by thats going too double. The union and Fisher is playing damage control here, and trying too keep the "UNITED FRONT". I am happy that there are breaking but man JaVale come on man, if your ready to break then get a group together and come together as 1 and speak your issues.

What pisses me off more is the bullcrap thats coming out these players mouth MELLO and AMARE about possibly forming your own league what kind of bull**** is that? First of all its impossible, and second of all lets say you are sucessfull they would be lucky to have 10 teams of 12. That right there is hilarious! REALLY what about all the other players in the league you know the MAJORITY of guys who are roll players they would have no job. While the rich which the stars would make up less than 10% of the league would still be making there money. Its the whole rich get richer and the poor well they have no job. Thats why they won't be united because they can afford too take the hit while others who are making the minium won't how are they suppose to pay for that brand new Ferrari?

The reason a new league is a joke is because they wouldn't make any money. Legal, tv revenue, arena to play in, etc would take years to set up. Many would be done by then.

I can't wait for this season to be officially cancelled.

[No Excuses]

I'm sure you can't wait. Phony fans just like to drop in every once in a while and pretend to care about the team. Now you don't even have to do that.

[SiCkSoULjA]

From what I am understanding the Owners drop the requirement for a hardcap. I was hoping a hardcap would be stand in the new CBA, thats almost our only shot of getting another championship in D.C.

[Destino]

Javale shouldn't have said that some players are ready to crack but most are not... but to have the union leaders pop up with **** eating grins to slam him just makes it seem like they represent their boys.

Watching this labor dispute is annoying. Might as well call them the Lebron and Lakers negotiation. Only big name players and large market teams hold any power and their vision for the league is one that offers nothing but a few blue chip teams.

---------- Post added October-15th-2011 at 11:55 AM ----------

From what I am understanding the Owners drop the requirement for a hardcap. I was hoping a hardcap would be stand in the new CBA, thats almost our only shot of getting another championship in D.C.

Of course they did. Large market teams don't want a hard cap and neither do big name players. They also dropped their demands to scale back guaranteed contracts. Soon revenue sharing will be off the table as well. The goal here is to set up a league where big name players do whatever the **** they want... so long as they play for large market teams. There is no interest at all in making a good league. Edited October 15, 2011 by Destino

[Warhead36]

If I'm the Owners, I'd hold out for a hard cap. These are billionaires who won't have to fret about money, hell most NBA owners lost money anyway so it'd be a win for them.

I'm actually siding with the Owners in this situation. NBA players are incredibly ignorant of the current economic situation and I'm sick of how the NBA is pretty much the same teams every year.

[chipwhich]

I'm sure you can't wait. Phony fans just like to drop in every once in a while and pretend to care about the team. Now you don't even have to do that.

Phony fans are those who know nothing about the history of the franchise and the nba. I don't fall into that category, I suspect others in this thread do as they obviously don't know anything about the sport.

The sport is a MESS, and a a fan if you ever want to see the Wizards as a legitimate franchise without having to luck into a Lebron James then you too would want a season cancellation. Problem is, you don't have an understanding of the facts, so you just make drive by cheap shots because it makes you feel important.

[skinfan2k]

Usually i don't like Chipwich's post but he is 100% about the NBA and the wizards championship chances. The NBA caters to large markets and the wizards will never be one. There needs to be a hard cap, elimination of a couple of teams, removal of Toronto from the NBA and adding more teams in areas that can succeed i.e. moving the clippers out of LA, and putting a team back into seattle

[Warhead36]

Washington is a pretty big market. We may not be New York, LA, or Chicago but we're just a notch below. If San Antonio and Detroit can compete, so can we. Yes I know the Spurs lucked into Duncan, but Wall looks like he could be a once in a generation type talent as well.

[SiCkSoULjA]

Phony fans are those who know nothing about the history of the franchise and the nba. I don't fall into that category, I suspect others in this thread do as they obviously don't know anything about the sport.

The sport is a MESS, and a a fan if you ever want to see the Wizards as a legitimate franchise without having to luck into a Lebron James then you too would want a season cancellation. Problem is, you don't have an understanding of the facts, so you just make drive by cheap shots because it makes you feel important.

I am 50/50 when it comes too the lock out one side of me says hell with the players cancel the whole season for the good of league in hope that small market teams will be able too complete again. Then there another side of me saying man theres no way I can go without basketball for a whole year.

Get used too the cheap shots man some of these guys are relentless any disagreements you may have open you up too war. In order too be welcomed here theres a list of rules. 1. You must absolutly hate Blatche, You must hate McGee and You must love Nick Young.

---------- Post added October-15th-2011 at 12:42 PM ----------

Usually i don't like Chipwich's post but he is 100% about the NBA and the wizards championship chances. The NBA caters to large markets and the wizards will never be one. There needs to be a hard cap, elimination of a couple of teams, removal of Toronto from the NBA and adding more teams in areas that can succeed i.e. moving the clippers out of LA, and putting a team back into seattle

Washington is a powerful city but a terrible basketball town hense the SMALL MARKET, ATLANTA is the same. DETRIOT has always been a basketball city no matter how hard times are.

Edited October 15, 2011 by SiCkSoULjA

[No Excuses]

EDIT: not worth it.

Continue the discussion.

Edited October 15, 2011 by No Excuses

[chipwhich]

Washington is a powerful city but a terrible basketball town hense the SMALL MARKET, ATLANTA is the same. DETRIOT has always been a basketball city no matter how hard times are.

This.

In addition, the Washington region is a melting pot of people from OTHER places, unlike say Detroit. So you wont get a ton of fan support for the Wizards without lucking into a Lebron. Not to mention the fact that the NBA probably has less localized fans than any other sport. Thats why you have so many Bulls/Miami fans. Cheer for the player not the franchise.

Bring Lebron to Washington, it would be amazing what our fan base would look like.

Thats why the league needs a little more balance. That way teams like Cleveland don't go from TOILET - to - LEBRON - to TOILET because they get lucky and their luck runs out.

[pjfootballer]

So why post about it?

And Canada's problem is that it's hard to sign free agents when they end up having to pay so much more in taxes.

Free country, free Extremeskins, free internet, etc. I'm entitled to my opinion. I hate the league, that doesn't mean I don't continue to support the Wizards. You can always ignore my post or put me on ignore.

I'm sure you can't wait. Phony fans just like to drop in every once in a while and pretend to care about the team. Now you don't even have to do that.

Well, this phony fan has been rooting for this team longer than you've been alive. In fact, I've been rooting to win another championship longer than you've been alive. Does that make me a better fan? Of course not. Just letting you know that the league is a farce and it would serve them right to be shut down for a year like hockey did. Hockey got their crap together after missing a season and they were better for it. I hate the league, but still supprt my team.

Phony fans are those who know nothing about the history of the franchise and the nba. I don't fall into that category, I suspect others in this thread do as they obviously don't know anything about the sport.

The sport is a MESS, and a a fan if you ever want to see the Wizards as a legitimate franchise without having to luck into a Lebron James then you too would want a season cancellation. Problem is, you don't have an understanding of the facts, so you just make drive by cheap shots because it makes you feel important.

Good post Chip. I love to throw this stat around and I'm sure some of you know it already. Since 1980, only 9 of the 30 teams have won an NBA title. I know there was only 22 teams at one time, but you'd figure with 8 more teams and the rosters being watered down, more teams would have an opportinity. Of the 9 teams that have won,only the Sixers, Heat and Mavericks have one title. The Celtics (4), Lakers (10), Bulls (6), Pistons (3) Spurs (4) and Rockets (2) have won multiple titles. That means 6 of 30 teams have dominated winning the championship. THAT SUCKS!! Yeah, the Wizards really have a chance. So do the Clippers, Jazz, Warriors etc. That's why I hate the NBA.

Baseball gets alot of flack about how the system is unfair, yet they seem to be able to have teams rise from the ashes to capture a WS and the sport has had multiple WS winners in the same time span, despite the dominance of the Yankees since the mid 90s.

[No Excuses]

These stats you guys throw around, we are all well aware of them. The problem is, you've posted the same whiny stuff so many times, that it's getting old. We get it, you don't like the lack of competitiveness. Constantly complaining about it is an annoyance to everyone else and clutters the thread. I don't generally like putting people on ignore but what do you guys think should happen when the same crowd makes the same point every week without contributing anything else?

Edited October 15, 2011 by No Excuses

[pjfootballer]

Then what else are we supposed to talk about? There is no season. There are no games. I mean how many years do we have to keep going over draft picks and potential? Wouldn't you rather talk about the Wizards chances at a #1 seed, a division title or their chances to bring home an O'Brien? I would LOVE to talk about that. We haven't had jack to talk about in over 10 years, save a few playoff appearances and we have never had a 50 win season since the 1978-79 season. What exactly should we talk about with a team that finishes between 18 and 44 wins a season with no 2nd round playoff wins in over 30 years? Something has to be done about the league. Like I said, it took a year off for hockey to realize they had to change their system and the game. The NBA could use a year off. I mean, do you guys enjoy watching the same teams win it all the time. It's like NASCAR. NASCAR is dead to me until someone else wins it. Anyone but Jimmie. How would you like the next 20 SBs to have only the Patriots, Steelers, Colts and Packers win 17 of the next 20?

Edited October 15, 2011 by pjfootballer

[chipwhich]

These stats you guys throw around, we are all well aware of them. The problem is, you've posted the same whiny stuff so many times, that it's getting old. We get it, you don't like the lack of competitiveness. Constantly complaining about it is an annoyance to everyone else and clutters the thread. I don't generally like putting people on ignore but what do you guys think should happen when the same crowd makes the same point every week without contributing anything else?

You try watching 30 years of failure. You will then understand why the league needs to change. In your Wizards fandom (as in being old enough to truly follow the Wizards and understand the game) you have enjoyed a fairly successful run with the team until the collapse of Arenas. So you aren't really familiar with the dire straights of the franchise, couple that with the futile state of the NBA.

I would rather watch 1 year go down the drain, and see the Wizards come back in a competitive league, than see another year of player run league where teams that can attract the top free agents, can buy their way to contention.

[No Excuses]

You try watching 30 years of failure. You will then understand why the league needs to change. In your Wizards fandom (as in being old enough to truly follow the Wizards and understand the game) you have enjoyed a fairly successful run with the team until the collapse of Arenas. So you aren't really familiar with the dire straights of the franchise, couple that with the futile state of the NBA.

I would rather watch 1 year go down the drain, and see the Wizards come back in a competitive league, than see another year of player run league where teams that can attract the top free agents, can buy their way to contention.

I do not disagree with your viewpoints.

I just don't like how often we are reminded of the viewpoint. It's not something novel that we are unaware of.

[skinfan2k]

chip and pj, we know you have been watching the NBA for the past 100 years, but we don't need to reminded lol. We know the NBA is screwed up but for people to say that the NBA sucks is wrong. The NBA has a number of great young superstars in many different places. It just needs to add a couple of things to make the league more competitively balanced.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Holy ****, I swear there isn't a more pathetic, miserable and annoying creature on this planet than an older ex-Bullets/Wiz fan. They all post the same things and all have the same old lady, whining yenta, borderline emo tone. Iet's like some Clockwork Orange ****. 80's/90's Bullets basketball mind ****ed them to an eternal state of bitter bliss.

Congrats you saw Wes win. Congrats you survived through the 80's and 90's. Unfortunately your opinion on the current state of the franchise became ireelevant when you stopped following them 10 years ago.

Edited October 16, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Destino]

There is a lockout happening RIGHT NOW. The negotiations taking place are exactly on the topic if reshaping the league. If you don't want to hear how wizards fans would like it to play out I don't know what to tell you. That discussion is entirely relevant at the moment.

... and certainly a lot more interesting than the latest over hyped Javale McGee gaffe.

I'm sure fans from every other team that isn't wonderfully situated at the moment are having similar discussions. A better league is either now or nearly a decade away after they come to a bad agreement. I'd prefer it be now. I'm sure you've seen that opinion before just as I have heard that McGee is a knuckle head, Wall is a superstar, and Blatche is a lazy PoS about a thousand times. Truth of the matter is that in a lockout there isn't exactly a lot to talk about.

[No Excuses]

There have been discussions about the lockout that don't generally involve the 'woe is me' attitude towards being a Wizards fan.

Plus I don't see the upside to rooting for a cancelled season. That guarantees absolutely nothing. It worked for the NHL but the NHL is a completely different animal. The issues in the NBA are much more complex and harder to tackle. Creating parity in the NBA will be extremely hard considering no other team sports dynamic causes it to be dominated by superstars as much as basketball. It's a historic reality of the league and a foundation of the sport. Superstars dominate and have much much bigger impact in relative comparisons to superstars from other team sports. Creating a hard cap isn't necessarily going to change this dynamic. You might end up with more evenly spread out talent but not all talent is equal and it's very likely that eventually the cream of the crop will continue to win out in the end.

[Destino]

Creating a hard cap makes it harder for teams to stock pile stars. If you have a Kobe (25m) you can't have a Gasol (18m), Bynum (15m), and Odom (9m). Those 4 alone put them far over the cap. That's what it takes to win in the NBA entirely because there is a soft cap. In fact a soft cap actually makes it MORE difficult for the small market teams because it makes going over the cap so expensive that ONLY the riches teams can afford it.

You say the NBA is all about stars an support a system that allow them to be concentrated. That makes no sense and you know it. Dynasties suck and the NBA wasn't the only ones that had them. That history is an outdated model and should stay as history.

[No Excuses]

Creating a hard cap makes it harder for teams to stock pile stars. If you have a Kobe (25m) you can't have a Gasol (18m), Bynum (15m), and Odom (9m). Those 4 alone put them far over the cap. That's what it takes to win in the NBA entirely because there is a soft cap. In fact a soft cap actually makes it MORE difficult for the small market teams because it makes going over the cap so expensive that ONLY the riches teams can afford it.

You say the NBA is all about stars an support a system that allow them to be concentrated. That makes no sense and you know it. Dynasties suck and the NBA wasn't the only ones that had them. That history is an outdated model and should stay as history.

A soft cap will spread the talent throughout the league, but the net effect on super star worth will essentially stay the same. So most likely instead of big 3's, you will have big 2's, and role players scattered every where. Even in this system, I'm not completely convinced that a great deal of parity will come around. Essentially, every team will have a chance to add more depth at the cost of less upper level talent, but it's usually upper level talent that ends up being the determining factor.

I'm in favor of a soft cap as well, but I'm not sure if it will really help the parity problem. Basketball at a professional level, to me is a sport that is heavily dominated by a select group of players from decade to decade and its these players who largely determine the flow of championships.

EDIT: however, I will say that if there is a team for parity to come back in the league, it's probably now. The talent level in the NBA right now has to be the best we've had in a long time. Lots of great players scattered throughout the league. So perhaps we could start seeing championships in different cities, say OKC, New York etc.

Edited October 16, 2011 by No Excuses

[chipwhich]

Holy ****, I swear there isn't a more pathetic, miserable and annoying creature on this planet than an older ex-Bullets/Wiz fan. They all post the same things and all have the same old lady, whining yenta, borderline emo tone. Iet's like some Clockwork Orange ****. 80's/90's Bullets basketball mind ****ed them to an eternal state of bitter bliss.

Congrats you saw Wes win. Congrats you survived through the 80's and 90's. Unfortunately your opinion on the current state of the franchise became ireelevant when you stopped following them 10 years ago.

Wahhh Wahh Wahhh Gac.

Too bad you can't admit the obvious. The NBA is a joke of a league and needs restructuring. I am glad you think it's cool that Lebron can dictate movement in the league and make other teams look stupid.

I am glad you are ignorant to the fact that 2 teams win the most championships in the history of the league, less a sprinkle of Jordan.

I am glad you don't care about anything but scrubs signing long term deals which hamstring teams without recourse. Lets sign them to a 7 year deal and watch them bang out 2 points per game.

I am glad you like to root for garbage competition.

I am glad you like the most criminal system in all of sports in the NBA lottery.

I am proud you like the Aundrey Blatche extension. Cheers. Sign a scrub, no opt out.

Put your chinstrap on, miss a season of lockout, and avoid sitting in your easy chair for the next 30 while the Wiz/Bullets sit on the sidelines with hope of not finishing last in the league.

Complaining about the obvious, a league that is a hot mess isn't very complimentary to your views.

Enjoy saying, John Wall is going to be a superstar while you watch your boy Lebron play for a title.

You obviously are a "Kobe/Shaq", "Jordan/Pippen" type of fan, and don't want an NBA that allows teams like the Wizards, which I suppose you cheer for, contend for a championship.

Yeah it's all about Unseld.

Man up, and call it what it is.

[pjfootballer]

Unfortunately your opinion on the current state of the franchise became ireelevant when you stopped following them 10 years ago.

There's where you are wrong. Despite not watching their games (I'm not paying for NBA League Pass with this crappy team) and being in South Carolina, I DO scoreboard watch. I WANT Them to win so bad, but year after year they don't. I never stop supporting my teams. I don't know how many times I have to say it in this thread, but I've never given up being a Wizards fan, just an NBA fan. The league needs to change to give other teams a chance. How for example does a team like the Lakers go from Magic, Worthy, Scott, Jabbar, etc. and then less than 10 years later come up with a Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, etc. Yet the Wiz get players like Cheaney, Gugliotta, and Kwame friggin Brown? It's not right and you know it. We lucked into Wall because Stern wanted to do his deceased buddy Pollin a favor. I'm just sick of watching the same 5 teams win it all.

There is a lockout happening RIGHT NOW. The negotiations taking place are exactly on the topic if reshaping the league. If you don't want to hear how wizards fans would like it to play out I don't know what to tell you. That discussion is entirely relevant at the moment.

... and certainly a lot more interesting than the latest over hyped Javale McGee gaffe.

I'm sure fans from every other team that isn't wonderfully situated at the moment are having similar discussions. A better league is either now or nearly a decade away after they come to a bad agreement. I'd prefer it be now. I'm sure you've seen that opinion before just as I have heard that McGee is a knuckle head, Wall is a superstar, and Blatche is a lazy PoS about a thousand times. Truth of the matter is that in a lockout there isn't exactly a lot to talk about.

This is a good post. Most of us complaining aren't complaining about the Wizards (I think they are on the right track and had one of their BEST drafts in years and years), but more about the state of the NBA.

---------- Post added October-16th-2011 at 12:03 PM ----------

A soft cap will spread the talent throughout the league, but the net effect on super star worth will essentially stay the same. So most likely instead of big 3's, you will have big 2's, and role players scattered every where. Even in this system, I'm not completely convinced that a great deal of parity will come around. Essentially, every team will have a chance to add more depth at the cost of less upper level talent, but it's usually upper level talent that ends up being the determining factor.

I'm in favor of a soft cap as well, but I'm not sure if it will really help the parity problem. Basketball at a professional level, to me is a sport that is heavily dominated by a select group of players from decade to decade and its these players who largely determine the flow of championships.

EDIT: however, I will say that if there is a team for parity to come back in the league, it's probably now. The talent level in the NBA right now has to be the best we've had in a long time. Lots of great players scattered throughout the league. So perhaps we could start seeing championships in different cities, say OKC, New York etc.

First you say it's a superstar driven league, then you say you don't want to take one player of any team's "Big 3" and make them a "Big 2." Well, won't that distribute the talent more evenly? I mean if the Lakers could lose Gasol, they'd have Kobe and Odom/Bynum left. Wouldn't Gasol look good in a Wizards uniform at power forward? Isn't he exactly what we need? I think it will help. If Stern truly wants the league to succeed, he has to let the Kings, Wizards, Clippers, OKC, Warriors, Bucks, Hawks or any other team besides the Lakers, Celtics, Spurs or Bulls to win.

---------- Post added October-16th-2011 at 12:06 PM ----------

Yeah it's all about Unseld.

Man up, and call it what it is.

I don't care what anyone says, when a team hasn't been relavent since bellbottoms and disco, you have a problem. 45 wins is the highest we've acheived since 1979 when we won 54 games and lost to the Sonics in the rematch. I've watched them flounder for 30 years. I'm just tired of winning 44 games and calling a first round exit a success. Even when we had Webber, Howard and Strickland, we ran into the Bulls. And that was probably our best team since 1979 and they only won 44 games.

Edited October 29, 2011 by pjfootballer