Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 In the land of NBA contracts, "deserves" has little to do with it.He'll get a max deal whether he deserves it or not because he is the centerpiece of everything Teddy has been selling to the fans for the last couple of years. He'll deserve it. The Rondo deal is a massive bargain the Celtics got for extenuating circumstances, Rondo would absolutely get a max contract from any team that needed a PG if he negotiated today. Wall is a transcendent talent with elite PG skills already who is capable of transforming a team into a winner with his leadership and ability to manage a game plus make a huge impact defensively. If he hits the open market he'll command a max deal from every suitor. When he hits his prime he's going to be amazing. A top ten player. Perhaps even top five. He's special. Feels like we had forgotten just how special while he was out. He looks smarter and more effective than ever and he still hasn't shaken off the rust. ---------- Post added January-17th-2013 at 12:56 AM ---------- Haven't you ever played a sport before? No such thing as a brilliant game if you choke at the end during the most critical time of the game. John Wall would tell you the same thing. Meh, I knew there would be at least one fool who would try and argue that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 He'll deserve it. The Rondo deal is a massive bargain the Celtics got for extenuating circumstances, Rondo would absolutely get a max contract from any team that needed a PG if he negotiated today.Wall is a transcendent talent with elite PG skills already who is capable of transforming a team into a winner with his leadership and ability to manage a game plus make a huge impact defensively. If he hits the open market he'll command a max deal from every suitor. When he hits his prime he's going to be amazing. A top ten player. Perhaps even top five. He's special. Feels like we had forgotten just how special while he was out. He looks smarter and more effective than ever and he still hasn't shaken off the rust. ---------- Post added January-17th-2013 at 12:56 AM ---------- Meh, I knew there would be at least one fool who would try and argue that. Take a poll of competitive athletes. If they choked at the end, would they ever call their game brilliant? Take a poll in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Trevor Ariza killed us tonight, gave us absolutely nothing on offense. Don't know why Wittman played him so much.Vesely finally has a good game, Wittman only plays him 10 minutes today. Wittman I do not understand your ways. Ves didn't play because he was a terrible matchup on Cousins and they left Cousins in the whole game despite the fact he was playing in foul trouble most the night, Sacramento's front court is enormous. Thompson is big too, as big if not bigger then Nene, who is our biggest player by far. TRob is powerful. Chuck Hayes is short but very powerful. And Cousins is a complete monster who can physically overpower almost anyone in the league. There is no one in that group you can put Ves on. They are in a different class of strength from him (and most of the league). Ves couldn't box Cousins out on a FT attempt without help, and even then the two of them could barely keep Cousins from the rebound. Ariza was stone cold tonight. I too wonder why they kept him in so much, but I'm guessing it was a matchup thing. Probably figured he was the only one who could really bother Tyreke in all of those ISO situations. Tyreke did go cold for long stretches until the end of the game. I'm wondering if it was Ariza's doing. ---------- Post added January-17th-2013 at 01:09 AM ---------- Take a poll of competitive athletes. If they choked at the end, would they ever call their game brilliant? Take a poll in this thread. Take a poll of NBA players and all of them would say it's a 48 minute team game and that game wasn't lost by Wall at the line on those two FT attempts. He was absolutely terrific tonight. 14 & 10 off the bench with expert management of the offense and some huge defensive plays that helped spark good leads that we couldn't maintain through other failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thompson isn't big. Nene was abusing him all night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Wall did choke at the end, but the game was lost once we stopped executing plays for beal IMO. Seraphin should not be allowed to shoot as much as he did, but he was also given the ball a lot with the shot clock running down, but even then, Nene should have been running PnR with John every play in the last 2 minutes. Great effort wasted away, oh well. Oh and Ariza completely stagnated the offense tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Take a poll of NBA players and all of them would say it's a 48 minute team game and that game wasn't lost by Wall at the line on those two FT attempts. He was absolutely terrific tonight. 14 & 10 off the bench with expert management of the offense and some huge defensive plays that helped spark good leads that we couldn't maintain through other failures. You're wrong. If you blow it at clutch time there is no getting around it. We aren't talking about a miracle three either we're talking free throws of which he missed both at a crucial moment. His game was a cake and those missed FTs pissed all over it. It doesn't make the cake disappear but it sure as hell ruins it. Long term however Wall looked brilliant at times today and had a good game overall. It's important to remember that he's still working his way back into game shape! There were a few times where you could see late that he didn't really have his legs. Edited January 17, 2013 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Wall did choke at the end, but the game was lost once we stopped executing plays for beal IMO. Seraphin should not be allowed to shoot as much as he did, but he was also given the ball a lot with the shot clock running down, but even then, Nene should have been running PnR with John every play in the last 2 minutes. Great effort wasted away, oh well. Oh and Ariza completely stagnated the offense tonight. I disagree. This game was lost the minute we stopped playing up-tempo offense, and switched to a halfcourt set. That, and all of our half-court offense was somehow resulting in either Seraphin getting the ball ( almost nick young jr. )and Beal attempting some iso stuff before kicking it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I disagree. This game was lost the minute we stopped playing up-tempo offense' date=' and switched to a halfcourt set. That, and all of our half-court offense was somehow resulting in either Seraphin getting the ball ( almost nick young jr. )and Beal attempting some iso stuff before kicking it out.[/quote']I think you're right, we were up, but we were playing "not to lose" there was no aggression in our attack at that point, things were tentative. I understand wanting to run the clock down but use your bread and butter. The defense was fine. It took a John Salmons 3 to tie it. Salmons is ****ing awful, sometimes other teams just catch a break. I still think the fact Ariza is so freaking streaky offensively will bite us in the ass if we don't address the SF position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 You're wrong. If you blow it at clutch time there is no getting around it. We aren't talking about a miracle three either we're talking free throws of which he missed both at a crucial moment. His game was a cake and those missed FTs pissed all over it. It doesn't make the cake disappear but it sure as hell ruins it.Long term however Wall looked brilliant at times today and had a good game overall. It's important to remember that he's still working his way back into game shape! There were a few times where you could see late that he didn't really have his legs. No, you're wrong. You're looking at it from a fan's perspective. I guarantee you there is not a coach or player in the league which would disagree with what I said. John's missed FTs were just one mistake in a myriad of mistakes that added up to the loss. We still had a great chance to win the game even after he missed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave25 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Last night was the first full Wizards game I've seen all season so a few personal opinions on the team and future. 1. Grunfield finally made a good draft choice. Beal looks like a stud and we finally have a good to potentially great backcourt with Wall and Beal, he is making me feel better and better about the non Harden deal. I see multiple all-star appearances in his future if he can figure out how to create his own and shot and be more aggressive towards the basket. It will be interesting to see this team when Crawford comes back it should be fun to see these three in the same game. 2. I like the frontcourt a lot with NeNe and Okafor as the veteran leaders and Seraphin as the young up and coming guy. If Booker and Vesley can figure it out and be somewhat capable backup/energy guys that would be great but I don't have much hope for them. 3. SF is this teams biggest need. Ariza is complete garbage and seems completely uninterested in the game all together and needs to be a bench warmer at this point. We should absolutely target Shabazz Muhammed or Anthony Bennett in the 2013 NBA Draft. Scoring combo guards is exactly what this team needs imo. 4. John Wall still can't shoot. All in all I feel a ton better about this team going forward with the way Wall looks coming back from his injury and Beal emerging but there is a lot of holes namely at SF backup PG and the front court depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 No, you're wrong. You're looking at it from a fan's perspective. I guarantee you there is not a coach or player in the league which would disagree with what I said.John's missed FTs were just one mistake in a myriad of mistakes that added up to the loss. We still had a great chance to win the game even after he missed them. Steve wins matter more than stats and every player will tell you the same. If they blow free throws and lose the game that's what counts. Coaches will say the game was lost a million different times throughout the game, they would likely agree with your take. I don't think players care much for "good game" if it ends in a loss though. Not the good players anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thompson isn't big. Nene was abusing him all night Thompson is as big as Nene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) No reason Seraphin should have had more attempts than Beal last night as hot as he was. Edited January 17, 2013 by StillUnknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Steve wins matter more than stats and every player will tell you the same. If they blow free throws and lose the game that's what counts. Coaches will say the game was lost a million different times throughout the game, they would likely agree with your take. I don't think players care much for "good game" if it ends in a loss though. Not the good players anyway. I'm not arguing Wall had a brilliant game based off just the stats. They are a tangible result of his brilliant play. Players have to focus on correctables and keep positive, productive perspectives moving forward because they have to keep playing and adapting. They have to take an account of everything that went wrong in a game and then figure out ways to fix their problems. I would bet the house no player is going to say Wall's performance wasn't excellent last night or that him missing those FTs is the reason the team lost. All would acknowledge it was just one sequence of mistakes/missed opportunities in a litany of other things that added up to the loss. I think most would acknowledge that a bigger problem was the myriad of totally avoidable turnovers and offensive fouls that facilitated Sacramento runs. Or having so many possessions that lagged on too long and ended with a forced pass to someone who had to take a bad shot or getting the ball to someone in a trap or in a bad spot they couldn't execute from. Or letting Jimmer get so many easy good looks at the basket. And letting Cousins run absolutely wild down the stretch despite being in foul trouble. Lots of missed opportunities before we even get to Wall's FTs (which came as a result of a brilliant effort to get to the line). And then after he missed them we had 10 seconds to score one point. There was plenty of time left even after that point to win the game. It's the fan's (outsider's) perspective that you can pin point one spot in a game as the reason for the outcome. Fans look for scapegoats and settle on simplified "bottom line" explanations that simply are not an accurate reflection of the entire picture. Most can't synthesize or remember even very much of the data presented in a game. Most of us can't even tell what it is the players are doing and why they are doing it. All the time you see us yelling at players for taking and missing bad shots when sets have broken down and the clock is running out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm not arguing Wall had a brilliant game based off just the stats. They are a tangible result of his brilliant play.Players have to focus on correctables and keep positive, productive perspectives moving forward because they have to keep playing and adapting. They have to take an account of everything that went wrong in a game and then figure out ways to fix their problems. I would bet the house no player is going to say Wall's performance wasn't excellent last night or that him missing those FTs is the reason the team lost. All would acknowledge it was just one sequence of mistakes/missed opportunities in a litany of other things that added up to the loss. I think most would acknowledge that a bigger problem was the myriad of totally avoidable turnovers and offensive fouls that facilitated Sacramento runs. Or having so many possessions that lagged on too long and ended with a forced pass to someone who had to take a bad shot or getting the ball to someone in a trap or in a bad spot they couldn't execute from. Or letting Jimmer get so many easy good looks at the basket. And letting Cousins run absolutely wild down the stretch despite being in foul trouble. Lots of missed opportunities before we even get to Wall's FTs (which came as a result of a brilliant effort to get to the line). And then after he missed them we had 10 seconds to score one point. There was plenty of time left even after that point to win the game. It's the fan's (outsider's) perspective that you can pin point one spot in a game as the reason for the outcome. Fans look for scapegoats and settle on simplified "bottom line" explanations that simply are not an accurate reflection of the entire picture. Most can't synthesize or remember even very much of the data presented in a game. Most of us can't even tell what it is the players are doing and why they are doing it. All the time you see us yelling at players for taking and missing bad shots when sets have broken down and the clock is running out... Good point. A month ago the Wiz wouldve lost this game by 15-20 points. The progress the team is making right now is evident. It just takes time to learn how to hold leads on the road. To simply focus on the missed FTs at the expense of the myriad other positive moments in the game is silly. Wall had a 10 to 1 ratio in only his 4th game back and Beal was a monster. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'd love to get Beal more shots, but only if it's there. I don't want him forcing up jumpers just because he's hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'd love to get Beal more shots, but only if it's there. I don't want him forcing up jumpers just because he's hot. Absolutely. And I don't want teammates forcing the ball to him just because they think he's hot and needs to be shooting. It should all come within the flow. What we should say instead of something like "Beal should have been taking those shots instead of Seraphin" is we should have run our sets with more urgency and precision so that we didn't have to force the ball to Seraphin with the imperative to shoot. I think there was a stretch last night when Seraphin was the only one playing aggressively and everyone else was content to say, "here, you shoot it. (I don't want to miss.)" Seraphin was hot early in the game and played super aggressive all night. The team was feeding him hoping he would shoot and they would keep going in. That kind of hot potatoing eventually stagnated the offense. We had racked up 32 assists, the ball was moving early. Gotta keep it moving the whole game from start to finish. And we should try and do a better job of getting Okafor involved in the offense IMO. One of our best plays is that pick and pop where he fades out to about the FT line. When he gets into a rhythm he can knock that thing down and then it fires him up and gets him attacking the boards and running the floor like a 21 year old. I'd also like to see us get Martell some more opportunities in transition next time. He's another player where it pays to get his juices flowing early because he can make an impact on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I'd love to get Beal more shots, but only if it's there. I don't want him forcing up jumpers just because he's hot. Agreed. However, I want him to force the issue inside a little more. I will live with 1-3 tough attempts while attacking the basket a game. He's attacking more than he used to and that aspect of his game needs to continue. If he can attack he'll have a much easier time finding space for his shot and getting to the charity stripe. Hopefully he can teach Wall how to shoot at some point too. Maybe trade some dribbling moves for shots. . Edited January 17, 2013 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/17/gary-payton-says-hes-been-talking-to-john-wall-about-succeeding-in-nba/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter We remember Gary Payton as “The Glove.” One of the great perimeter defenders in NBA history, a guy who locked horns with Michael Jordan for some memorable battles, including the 1996 NBA finals. Payton the guy that could do it on the other end as well, a floor general who averaged 16.7 points a game over his career. A guy who just got a call to say he was nominated for the Hall of Fame.We don’t remember him as Gary Payton the guy who struggled the first few years in Seattle. But he did. “First of all I struggled for three years,” said Payton, speaking as part of the Thuzio launch in Los Angeles. “Really for two years, and then when George Karl got there (to Seattle) my struggles ended because I got a basketball coach that let me do what I wanted to do.” John Wall has struggled his first couple seasons in the league. Not that he was bad — 16.3 points and 8 assists per game last season — but he wasn’t the No. 1 overall pick, franchise anchor kind of guy the Wizards expected. That Wall expected to be. To get help, Wall has reached out to Payton to learn how to overcome those struggles, how to fit his game into the NBA and succeed “Me and him have talked a lot on the phone,” Payton told ProBasketballTalk. “He has called me about the situation, the same situation (I was in) to learn about things, and I’ve been talking to him about things and I’ve been talking to him a lot…. “With John Wall I think he understood that he has to get better and he has to go work out and he has to go improve on those things. I think if he knows he’s not good at something, he’ll go workout at it. And that’s what I respect a lot about him and a lot about his game. And I know he’s going to get better because I know he’s got the mentality that he wants to get better, he wants to learn from other people, he wants to take advice from people and he wants to get better.” More in the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Gary Payton is kind of crazy. I think it'd be tough to talk to him for long. ---------- Post added January-17th-2013 at 12:59 PM ---------- Anyway I'm relieved Wall has come back and been so good. Amazing really. Shouldn't he be super rusty? I can't wait until he gets his wind back and is in the starting lineup and playing a full 35-36 MPG again. I suspect he's in the midst of making an important leap. If he continues his current pace of play it'll be an All Star caliber year and the best of his career, by far. His PER is over 24 right now and he's at .155 WS/48 in the past three games. That'll take a dip no doubt. But by how much? And since Beal started to figure it out in the Brooklyn game, his average game score has been 15. That's pretty great for the second youngest player in the league. If he sustains about this level of play he'll deserve to be the runner up for ROTY. ---------- Post added January-17th-2013 at 01:12 PM ---------- Another thing that's been a source of optimism for me is Nene's level of play. His numbers are starting to stabilize and suggest he's a 20 PER and .150 WS/48 starter for us. That's a borderline All Star generally speaking. Better than he was in Denver. It's a bit better than we could have realistically hoped for when we traded for him. The unthinkable happened. An expensive player with multiple serious medical issues in his history came to the Wizards and actually got better. I'm really impressed by the way he handled the situation. He didn't get pissed off at getting trade from a playoff team to a bottom dweller and check out like Shard did. He took it as a sign, leaned on his personal faith to deal with the frustration, and then went out and elevated his own game to try and elevate the team. I respect him a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thompson is as big as Nene. Bull****. And i'm almost positive Buck and Phil even talked about Thompson being undersized compared to Nene last night. Someone confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Bull****. And i'm almost positive Buck and Phil even talked about Thompson being undersized compared to Nene last night. Someone confirm? http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jason-Thompson-594/ 6'11 250...maybe...he's just more... compact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 anbody else bummed out by the wizards loss ... I mean, it should be common thing if you are a wizards fan to accept another loss, but i honeslty was bummed out. so close ... four game streak would have been sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Bull****. And i'm almost positive Buck and Phil even talked about Thompson being undersized compared to Nene last night. Someone confirm? They are both 6'11 250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCkSoULjA Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Espn has a insiders article on John Wall has he reached his ceiling ? Anybody care too share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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