The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Skin'emAlive]

I dont see how Cousins would fix our problems though. He comes in, then Gortat goes where? Or is he traded for him? Cousins cant play the 4, so we still have the same issues. Though I would trade Gortat for Cousins in a heartbeat. Maybe Gortat+Temple+cash/draft pick?

 

Wall

Beal

Oubre

Porter

Cousins

 

I think it could work, maybe?

 

What's funny is that I think Rudy Gay would be a great 4 with Wall. But, like J.R. Smith you gotta take the good with the bad when he plays. His contract is just a killer though.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Skin'emAlive

[Going Commando]

They're going to want Beal in any Cousins trade.

[skinfan2k]

If we get Durant, you hope FA take cheaper deals to sign here.  Kinda surprising that doesn't happen in OKC

[RonArtest15]

They're going to want Beal in any Cousins trade.

 

Unfortunately, that's what it's going to take. 

 

Unless a package of Oubre, Gortat, ________, and MULTIPLE future 1st round picks does it....

 

The great thing about Boogie is that he can actually be a stretch 5.  He's a matchup nightmare, and I'd love to see him playing with John Wall again.  I think we have a great structure and leadership here in DC that Cousins couldn't do anything but fall in line.

 

If there is a 75% chance to land Cousins vs. a less than 25% chance to land KD, I think you'd have to try for the former. 

[Going Commando]

OKC doesn't go after cheap, past-their-prime ring chasers. They have a deep team full of young, recent draftees.

A poster on RealGM pointed out that we have three players on our roster drafted after Wall came into the league. OKC has eight.

[Going Commando]

If there is a 75% chance to land Cousins vs. a less than 25% chance to land KD, I think you'd have to try for the former.

Agreed. Durant is obviously a lot better than Cousins, but I do think we have a less than 25% chance of getting him.

Cousins would want to be here.

There is simply no way I trade Beal for him though. Not unless Beal came to me and said he wanted out for some reason and was going to fully explore his market in the offseason.

I'd also feel really really uncomfortable including Porter, and would not include both Oubre and Porter.

Frankly, I don't really trust Cousins. I want him to be the third or fourth most important voice in my locker room.

My final offer would be Gortat + Oubre/Porter + Sato + two firsts with light protection + whatever trade ballast was necessary to make the deal work. If Sacramento said no, I'd be OK walking away from the table. Cousins is damaged goods.

[Going Commando]

What's funny is that I think Rudy Gay would be a great 4 with Wall. But, like J.R. Smith you gotta take the good with the bad when he plays. His contract is just a killer though.

His contract is heinous. I wouldn't actually want him on the court much.

Here's a question:

If we're working out a deal for Cousins with Sacramento, something like Gortat + Oubre/Porter + Sato + first rounders, and they said you have to include Nene for Rudy Gay, how willing would everyone be to do that?

To explain for those who don't have basketball reference's team payroll information bookmarked like I do:

- Nene is a 13 million dollar expiring

- Rudy Gay's contract has a player option on the final year that makes his deal 3 years for about 13 million per.

[Going Commando]

FWIW,

Gortat

Nene

Porter

Satoransky's rights

2016 first

2018 first

for

Cousins

Gay

is a legal trade.

Tell me if that doesn't make your butthole clinch up in fear. But switch Porter with Oubre (also a legal trade) and I think I pull the trigger.

But the only way the Kings pull the trigger on that is if Cousins has completely burned his bridges and both he and Karl demand that he get traded.

[RonArtest15]

FWIW,

Gortat

Nene

Porter

Satoransky's rights

2016 first

2018 first

for

Cousins

Gay

is a legal trade.

Tell me if that doesn't make your butthole clinch up in fear. But switch Porter with Oubre (also a legal trade) and I think I pull the trigger.

But the only way the Kings pull the trigger on that is if Cousins has completely burned his bridges and both he and Karl demand that he get traded.

 

 

Oh my goodness....that would be a STEAL for the Wizards.  I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. 

[StillUnknown]

Agreed. Durant is obviously a lot better than Cousins, but I do think we have a less than 25% chance of getting him.

Cousins would want to be here.

There is simply no way I trade Beal for him though. Not unless Beal came to me and said he wanted out for some reason and was going to fully explore his market in the offseason.

I'd also feel really really uncomfortable including Porter, and would not include both Oubre and Porter.

Frankly, I don't really trust Cousins. I want him to be the third or fourth most important voice in my locker room.

My final offer would be Gortat + Oubre/Porter + Sato + two firsts with light protection + whatever trade ballast was necessary to make the deal work. If Sacramento said no, I'd be OK walking away from the table. Cousins is damaged goods.

 

Based strictly on talent, I would go Cousins over Beal, but Cousins' volatility is a problem. That said, Beal's penchant for hitting the ground with the force of a crash dummy dropped from a rooftop makes Boogie a bit more enticing. Not really sure how I would feel about a trade, it would largely depend on the what else is included.

Edited November 12, 2015 by StillUnknown

[TradeTheBeal!]

I'm also extremely concerned with Beals long-term health. My guy just gets wrecked out there nearly every game.

Edit: a little article on Deadspin about Boogie shooting the 3.

http://deadspin.com/hey-cool-demarcus-cousins-shoots-threes-now-1742110323

Edited November 12, 2015 by TryTheBeal!

[Destino]

I'd take cousins over Beal simply because finding a versatile star big is extremely difficult versus finding a high scoring wing. It would be easier, and cheaper, to get good role players at 2 guard than it is at PF/C.

This is not to say I don't like Beal, I've never liked him more than I have this season. He looks like he's ready to make that leap. It's just simple scarcity.

Also, he falls like an old man and takes three ugly falls a game. I am somewhat concerned about his health but he seems like a tough guy.

[justice98]

I swear I forgot what thread I was in. I was thinking of a completely different Cousins for a second. I need some sleep. lol

[Going Commando]

Beal is a stud. A star in the making with the clutch gene. Capable of being the best SG in the NBA within a couple seasons. And a stabilizing personality in the locker room. I don't think you give him up for Cousins in a 1:1 trade, and I think that deal would end up being considered a 1:1 trade eventually. Which is something you should never have to pay when trading for a failed team's disgruntled star. In these cases, the original team is usually lucky to get back 50 cents on the dollar.

Plus I don't want Cousins being my second most important voice in the locker room, which is what I end up with if I trade Beal for him. I want to be able to move on from Cousins, if necessary, and still be successful. If I have Wall and Beal, I can do that. But not if I lose Beal.

I don't think there is actually going to be a huge trade market for Cousins. He is such a mess in Sacramento, and he'll have a say in where he ends up because all he has to say is "I don't want to play for X team" to scare them away. And plus, his record of production is nowhere close to being as good as his potential. He's put some pretty scary film out within the last two seasons. Couple that with all of his baggage and the open feud with George Karl, and I think his market won't be great.

Think about the Kevin Love situation in the summer of 2014. Love was coming off a 14 win share season where he was top five in MVP consideration. And the market for him was pretty paltry remember? Golden State, Chicago, and Cleveland were the only three teams in the market, and Chicago and Golden State wouldn't give up anything for him. Cleveland got him for a rookie that was years away from being able to play at the level Beal can currently play at, a journeyman tweener forward whose main function was to be contract ballast, and Anthony Bennett, who had zero value.

[Going Commando]

Based strictly on talent, I would go Cousins over Beal, but Cousins' volatility is a problem. That said, Beal's penchant for hitting the ground with the force of a crash dummy dropped from a rooftop makes Boogie a bit more enticing. Not really sure how I would feel about a trade, it would largely depend on the what else is included.

I don't think you can worry too much about health when you're calculating the balance of the trade and the future of your build. Cousins did miss slightly more time than Beal did last season too.

You just have to determine: is Beal a piece of my foundation? and then move forward operating upon that belief. So much about injuries just comes down to blind luck. Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook basically never missed a minute of the first 7 and 5 years of their careers respectively. Then Westbrook has to get three knee surgeries in 8 months and Durant has been dealing with a couple of serious leg injuries for the past year. By contrast, Steph Curry is banged up for the first three years of his career, then becomes a rock for the next three, and transforming himself into the best player in the league.

Until Beal suffers an injury that causes serious and permanent structural damage, I don't think you can operate out of fear with him.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Since it's fun to bash Ernie for trading the pick that became Jordan Clarkson for cash, can we add last year's Euroleague MVP and current Timberwolves rookie Nemanja Bjelica to that list? Part of a pick swap that netted us Trevor Booker, He's been providing them solid minutes as a stretch-4 so far this year and would have fit great in the Wizards lineup.

[SuperBash]

Is it me or does our schedule to start off the year seem pretty tough? And 4 games in 15 nights during this current stretch? What is up with that?

[Going Commando]

Yeah this spread out scheduling was stupid. Our first three games in four days, but then huge layoffs between the next four. But the plus side is that it's given Beal a lot of time to rest his shoulder.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Alan Anderson is making progress. Got some work done on the floor today. Has a brace on the left ankle.

 

Jorge CastilloVerified account‏@jorgeccastillo

Gortat wasn't happy about getting called out by Wittman in media. Said he didn't agree w/it & Wittman had said he wouldn't do that in camp.

 

 

Jorge CastilloVerified account‏@jorgeccastillo

Gortat agreed that he should've done better on the boards. The message was fine. Just not how it was delivered.

 

[endzone_dave]

We need to be expecting 50+ wins out of this team though. They absolutely have the talent to do that. They flat out underachieve during the regular season. Destino is right, they don't bring consistent effort every game, and that's the core problem.

Plus most of our role players suck right now.

 

I'm think I'm going to expect 35 wins.  After Wall, Beal, Porter, and Gortat, I really start to not like what they put out there.  If one of their top 4 get hurt, they're screwed.  If a couple of the top 4 have an off night, they're screwed.

[Going Commando]

I'm think I'm going to expect 35 wins.  After Wall, Beal, Porter, and Gortat, I really start to not like what they put out there.  If one of their top 4 get hurt, they're screwed.  If a couple of the top 4 have an off night, they're screwed.

We won 46 games last year with Beal missing significant amounts of time. I don't see why we'd win 11 games less this year.

[ixcuincle]

I was very irritated seeing people cheer for Durant rather than the actual local team out on the court a few days ago. It got so bad he complained about it and said the fans should stop cheering so much for him and cheer for their own damn team. 

 

But I've noticed this is typical for Wizards basketball here. When compared to the other sports teams in this town, the Wizards are appallingly irrelevant and the fanbase is appallingly apathetic. The Wizards are a good team. They are decent. They deserve respect. Yet there is virtually no passion or interest in their team, even when the Playoffs roll around. It's very sad. 

 

Redskins - passionate fanbase and The Hogs and packed FedEx field every Sunday screaming and yelling

Nationals - packed ballpark every night, and if you want to complain about the fanbase not being there, well they're only been around for 10 years

Capitals - passionate fan base and Rock the Red and very mainstream

DC United - Barra Brava / Screaming Eagles

Wizards - ? 

 

The Wizards / Bullets have been here for over 40 years and still managed to avoid the attention or scrutiny of any other team. 

 

Maybe if Durant comes here people will start paying attention. Maybe if Durant comes here there will be a huge Wizards bandwagon. But Tony Kornheiser is skeptical it is going to happen. I don't know either. But if he does come here, the bandwagon will be so huge that it'll be impossible to ignore. And with the fanbase as nonchalant and apathetic as it is right now, it's a desperately needed boost. 

Edited November 14, 2015 by ixcuincle

[StillUnknown]

The home "support" has been embarrassing this year

 

Wall got booed at home on the free throw line against the Spurs & Knicks. That should never happen.

[Skin'emAlive]

Its really quite simple actually... win consistently, avoid embarrassing blowouts at all costs, and invest in the fan experience.

 

2 years ago the Hawks, a franchise that had consistently been good but not great had a hard time getting anyone in the door at a decent clip. It was quite shocking to me, as the Hawks were always pretty good and hardly ever stunk. Atlanta is a melting pot full of transplants; not much different than DC. But they were never really convincingly good, and outside of an awesome organ player, the fan experience was mediocre.

 

Then they brought in a guy who implemented a system that works (starting from zero), booted the GM (thats another story all-together), changed the jerseys, and incorporated some spiffy technology like the 3D court projection system. Now their arena is packed in favor of the Hawks.

 

Washington has sucked forever, has in the past encouraged opposing fans in favor of getting asses in seats, removed the fan favorite name in favor of a stupid wizard with worse colors, continues to employ a 2-time failure at GM, and is looking to sabatoge 2 seasons of prime John Wall ( a top 2-3 pg in the league) in the hopes that some other star will come here. In fact the only time this team really had any buzz with the city was with Gilbert Arenas. A guy who was scapegoated for all Ernies failures for a long time (prior to the incident and then after).

 

Here's a funny, but true story. On the side, I do some tutoring. Today i had a new student. A 21 year kid, who was wearing an adidas sports blazer with track pants. Most Chinese kids have two names. It helps when they apply for schools in other countries. One is their Chinese name. (Their real name). The other is a name they choose for themselves. Their english name. Ive had a bunch of friends pick some interesting ones. Many named after fruits, animals, or cartoon characters. Today this kid walks in and sheepishly says hello and introduces himself as Gilbert. I immediately raise an eyebrow, as its a most uncommon choice of an English name. He proceeds to tell me that he chose Gilbert because Agent Zero was his idol growing up.

 

(record scratch...what?)

 

Thank about that! This kid lives on the other side of the world, and his favorite player was Gilbert Arenas. A guy he liked so much, that he chose Gil as his English name. Yet here we have an organzation that cant barely get local fans to care enough to even show up and root for the home team.

 

The moment that the organization gets passionate about its team and starts trying to win rather than make money or keep their job is the moment the fans will get more passionate. OKC could have thrown in the towell a year ago, conceding defeat to Durant's decision, but instead went out hard and surrounded him with a great bench, a hungry coach, and a vision. He would be a fool to leave.

[Going Commando]

That really pissed me off to hear Wall getting booed at the FT line against the Spurs. I don't like to criticize the crowds when I'm sitting at home, but that was an embarrassing moment for us.

I don't like visiting fans booing players either. I feel like that reflects poorly on your fanbase. But I'm pretty sure the SA fans in the Verizon Center on a weekday game in November are just bandwagoners looking for something to do that night.

Our fanbase is small. It is what it is. It's hard to fill up an arena 41 times a year with such a small fanbase, and casual fans don't follow the NBA until Christmas too. The Verizon Center was great during the playoffs. It's going to take a while to get that level of fan enthusiasm throughout the year.