The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

The last time Memphis traded a heavily protected draft pick was for Otis Thorpe in 1997. The protection kicked in each year until 2003 when it ended up only having top 1 protection. Yes, in the Lebron draft. The best class in a generation. They ended up getting the second overall pick and Detroit finally got it from them despite the fact they were already a championship team. Good thing they ****ed it up by picking Darko. But yeah, Memphis could have built around Pau Gasol and Carmelo if they never make that awful deal for Otis Thorpe.

---------- Post added January-22nd-2013 at 11:03 PM ----------

The difference in Martell to Gay is not worth the difference in their contracts.

[Skin'emAlive]

I understand both sides. And i think both arguments are valid. We could stay put and hold out hope for a high quality player via draft pick / trade somewhere down the line. However, one must also acknowledge that we will still have EG around making those trades/picks. Because he isnt going anywhere. If a late season run and a worst record in the league this year ( among his past bungles) havent gotten him fired, nothing will.

Or we could anticipate our team going on the inevitable late season run, and trade that pick ( which will have little value in this weak draft class) before it diminishes value and becomes a european prospect for someone who will help the team now, and provide a valuable trade chip in the future when there are less years on his contract. I think the added win% will help attract players in the future via trade.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Skin'emAlive

[Destino]

I still think Wall is not a max player or a all star. He's a poor mans Rondo right now and the wizards need to act accordingly. They need to get a star player to pair with Beal and hopefully keep Wall around and build a team like the Celtics did but younger and not made up of aging stars.

Beal = Allen

Nene = KG

Wall = Rondo

Pierce = ????

If we aren't going to follow the superstar model or land Howard than we need a near all star at SF. That will allow Wall to run around with a full compliment of weapons to work with. He is not however THE weapon and is asked to be purely opportunistic on offense. I think Rudy Gay would have worked but his contract is toxic and Memphis isn't giving him up. Okafor has been good lately but he's very limited on offense.

If they can't do that they need to consider blowing things up and making a play for someone they can build around and put all options on the table. No more mediocrity and draft bull****. This year should be the last lottery the Wizards see for years because frankly the wait to draft someone bit has been a failure.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Destino

[Skin'emAlive]

I still think Wall is not a max player or a all star. He's a poor mans Rondo right now and the wizards need to act accordingly. They need to get a star player to pair with Beal and hopefully keep Wall around and build a team like the Celtics did but younger and not made up of aging stars.

This is irrelevant. Wall is guaranteed a max contract here. We drafted and signed FA for 2 years to fit him. That will no change unless he brings a gun to the locker room.

A trade of Ariza / Okafor, 1st, and filler for Howard would be amazing. But that is a pipe dream.

[chipwhich]

This is irrelevant. Wall is guaranteed a max contract here. We drafted and signed FA for 2 years to fit him. That will no change unless he brings a gun to the locker room.

A trade of Ariza / Okafor' date=' 1st, and filler for Howard would be amazing. But that is a pipe dream.[/quote']

Wall will NEVER sign another contract with the Wiz Kids. Max contract or not.

[Destino]

Wall will NEVER sign another contract with the Wiz Kids. Max contract or not.

He wouldn't get anywhere near a max contract on any good team. Money talks and he has a suspect knee. I doubt he's going anywhere.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 12:49 AM ----------

This is irrelevant. Wall is guaranteed a max contract here. We drafted and signed FA for 2 years to fit him. That will no change unless he brings a gun to the locker room.

A trade of Ariza / Okafor' date=' 1st, and filler for Howard would be amazing. But that is a pipe dream.[/quote']

I'm not so sure. If he shows improvement certainly but he's still a liability at times and he's very clearly not widely regarded as a great player around the league. I don't think Ted will make max offers that aren't clearly justified.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Destino

[Going Commando]

Nerlens with a 13 rebound 7 block game tonight.

I'm officially torn between him and Shabazz as the top guy in the class.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 01:03 AM ----------

I think Wall is a transcendent talent and future All Star and will definitely be a max contract player sooner or later. I also think it's an absolute certainty he'll sign the rookie deal max extension if he were offered it because nobody ever turns that down.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 01:05 AM ----------

Nerlens might be a better pure shot blocker than Davis was. How bizarre they would be in back to back classes and both play at Kentucky.

[nuposse87]

Wall will NEVER sign another contract with the Wiz Kids. Max contract or not.

You either don't know how the NBA functions, or are in the know with Wall's close circle. All rookies sign their first max offers. With Wall's sporadic play his first two seasons and recent injury scare he'd be a fool to turn it down. Wall isn't a headcase like Cousins. The only reason any drama would be born from this is that the Wiz would be asinine to offer him significantly less then the Max. If he finishes this season strong (Like the team is .500+ with him back) then they have no reason not to offer him a contract.

My only concern is that since Wall is such good friends with LBJ he's conspiring with him in '14 cause Wade is losing steam, they chat for a friggin long time after every game against each other.

[Destino]

You either don't know how the NBA functions, or are in the know with Wall's close circle. All rookies sign their first max offers. With Wall's sporadic play his first two seasons and recent injury scare he'd be a fool to turn it down. Wall isn't a headcase like Cousins. The only reason any drama would be born from this is that the Wiz would be asinine to offer him significantly less then the Max. If he finishes this season strong (Like the team is .500+ with him back) then they have no reason not to offer him a contract.

My only concern is that since Wall is such good friends with LBJ he's conspiring with him in '14 cause Wade is losing steam, they chat for a friggin long time after every game against each other.

You think Lebron, the point forward, wants a PG that can't shoot?

Also the days of 3 max contracts on a team are gone. Miami would need to lose Bosh and Wade to offer Wall a max deal.

[nuposse87]

You think Lebron, the point forward, wants a PG that can't shoot?

Also the days of 3 max contracts on a team are gone. Miami would need to lose Bosh and Wade to offer Wall a max deal.

I mean, it doesn't make any basketball sense, but it isn't like Wade is a spectacular shooter either. Wall would need to be willing to accept the qualifying offer in '14 for it to have a chance at happening. I still its only like a 0.0001% chance of happening, but I can't help but think that douche is recruiting. I was thinking more he'd leave in '14 and go somewhere. Ironically Irving would be a better fit next to him.

If we extend Wall on a 5 year deal this off season, don't those usually have opt-out clauses? I think we'd have about a 4 year window if the FO really manages to **** up.

Edited January 23, 2013 by nuposse87

[Going Commando]

You think Lebron, the point forward, wants a PG that can't shoot?

Also the days of 3 max contracts on a team are gone. Miami would need to lose Bosh and Wade to offer Wall a max deal.

I think LeBron would love to play with Wall if Wall would come to him. He'd basically be a much younger, faster, and more energetic, much better passing DWade on that team.

I don't think teams with three max style contracts are going to be completely taken out of the game. I just think they're going to raise the salary cap. I see it hitting 75 million sooner than later. 50 million committed to 3 players and 20 million committed to the bench is feasible now.

Wall's not leaving here any time soon though. He'll be a Wizard for at least four more years if we want him.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 08:41 AM ----------

Anyone else get the feeling that Shabazz is going to be a Laker and Wiggins is going to be a Supersonic?

[hunterx]

Isn't the thought that we need a star big man and not a SF type? Beal can play the SG/SF role pretty easy it seems. I'd think Zeller or Noel are on the list as top targets in the draft.

[pjfootballer]

If the Caps keep playing like garbage, I may start watching the Wizards again.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Isn't the thought that we need a star big man and not a SF type? Beal can play the SG/SF role pretty easy it seems. I'd think Zeller or Noel are on the list as top targets in the draft.

Beal can't play the 3

[Going Commando]

Isn't the thought that we need a star big man and not a SF type? Beal can play the SG/SF role pretty easy it seems. I'd think Zeller or Noel are on the list as top targets in the draft.

They'll go BPA in the draft probably since it'll likely be a SF or a big anyway. We've got a much bigger need for a big man but we shouldn't turn down a high upside scoring 3 like Shabazz if we get a chance at him.

[CrypticVillain]

Anyone else get the feeling that Shabazz is going to be a Laker and Wiggins is going to be a Supersonic?

I hate the NBA/WNBA Lottery. It is the dumbest thing in professional sports right now. I am still pissed that the Mystics had the worst record in the league and got the fourth pick.

It should be the worst team gets the best pick. So what if they tank, if you are the worst team you should get the best amateur.

[Hersh]

They'll go BPA in the draft probably since it'll likely be a SF or a big anyway. We've got a much bigger need for a big man but we shouldn't turn down a high upside scoring 3 like Shabazz if we get a chance at him.

Why do we have a bigger need for a big man verse a small forward? I hope you don't think Martell Webster is the long term answer at SF.

[earl]

BPA might be the kid from kansas, Mclemore. his talent pops off the screen and he could be the best SG to come out in awhile. we don't need a SG but if shabazz is off the board i'm not sure we can pass on this kid. I think zeller can contribute immediately and help but i don't see a real dominant big man. I see a solid player but not dominant. As far as Noel, he's a talent for sure but i'm not sure if he is what this team needs. we can't score as a team and he isn't going to help. he really has no position cuz he is too skinny to be a viable threat at the 4-5. Honestly i'd rather have MD's Len. The wiz already have guys that can't play w/ a ton of potential. we need to draft a guy w/ upside but can contribute today.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I hate the NBA/WNBA Lottery. It is the dumbest thing in professional sports right now. I am still pissed that the Mystics had the worst record in the league and got the fourth pick.

It should be the worst team gets the best pick. So what if they tank, if you are the worst team you should get the best amateur.

The only way the lottery makes sense is if it's corrupt, ie it allows them to place stars in the markets they want. Like Ewing in New York City.

[nuposse87]

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 08:41 AM ----------

[/color]Anyone else get the feeling that Shabazz is going to be a Laker and Wiggins is going to be a Supersonic?

Lakers pick goes to the Suns if they're in the lottery this year. I don't think it has top 3 protection, so the suns do stand to profit off of the Laker's new found futility. I'm not sure if they own their '14 pick, and depending on personnel decisions, they could be lottery bound next year as well.

Regarding BPA, I wouldn't mind drafting Ben Mclemore. He's...6-5ish I think, massively athletic, and can shoot. I'd look to trade him for a good package revolved around an established player with upside. Cousins, Batum, Leonard+SAS '14 pick, Parsons+HOU pick, hell even Harrison Barnes if interest forms between parties. I think our small ball line up would be absurdly good with Ben, but we'd get abused by teams like Miami, OKC, MEM, NYK, and IND, teams with great SFs.

Speaking of IND, imagine Paul George on this roster...

[RonArtest15]

BPA might be the kid from kansas, Mclemore. his talent pops off the screen and he could be the best SG to come out in awhile. we don't need a SG but if shabazz is off the board i'm not sure we can pass on this kid. I think zeller can contribute immediately and help but i don't see a real dominant big man. I see a solid player but not dominant. As far as Noel, he's a talent for sure but i'm not sure if he is what this team needs. we can't score as a team and he isn't going to help. he really has no position cuz he is too skinny to be a viable threat at the 4-5. Honestly i'd rather have MD's Len. The wiz already have guys that can't play w/ a ton of potential. we need to draft a guy w/ upside but can contribute today.

McLemore can flat out play, but SG is not a position of need for us. If somehow we end up with a pick and he's the BPA, trade down. I'm sure someone would want his services.

[Going Commando]

Why do we have a bigger need for a big man verse a small forward? I hope you don't think Martell Webster is the long term answer at SF.

Okafor certainly isn't a long term answer either. Much, much harder to find competent bigs than SFs. You can find Martell Websters off the street.

[Destino]

I think LeBron would love to play with Wall if Wall would come to him. He'd basically be a much younger, faster, and more energetic, much better passing DWade on that team.

I don't think teams with three max style contracts are going to be completely taken out of the game. I just think they're going to raise the salary cap. I see it hitting 75 million sooner than later. 50 million committed to 3 players and 20 million committed to the bench is feasible now.

Wall's not leaving here any time soon though. He'll be a Wizard for at least four more years if we want him.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 08:41 AM ----------

Anyone else get the feeling that Shabazz is going to be a Laker and Wiggins is going to be a Supersonic?

Wall is not on the same planet as Wade when it comes to consistently scoring the basketball. He's larger and was averaging 24 ppg in his second season at a higher fg% than Wall has ever had. Lebron isn't going to trade in a primary scoring option for a limited offensive PG that needs the ball in his hands. I know you place Wall highly but he's not in the conversation with Lebron and Wade.

Max contracts increase over time as well. Lebron Wade and Bosh are owed a little over 61 million in 2014-15. That not happening. Maybe three max contract to young players that aren't at 20 million yet.

I don't think the Lakers are going to get any help in the lottery. The Clippers are in place in LA and the Lakers are a hot mess right now. They are going to be given some time (and rope) to work through their issues. I can see the sonics having that top pick in 2014 though.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 01:47 PM ----------

BPA might be the kid from kansas, Mclemore. his talent pops off the screen and he could be the best SG to come out in awhile. we don't need a SG but if shabazz is off the board i'm not sure we can pass on this kid. I think zeller can contribute immediately and help but i don't see a real dominant big man. I see a solid player but not dominant. As far as Noel, he's a talent for sure but i'm not sure if he is what this team needs. we can't score as a team and he isn't going to help. he really has no position cuz he is too skinny to be a viable threat at the 4-5. Honestly i'd rather have MD's Len. The wiz already have guys that can't play w/ a ton of potential. we need to draft a guy w/ upside but can contribute today.

I think Shabazz is also ideally a SG, SF are oversized in the NBA now and why not put him at a wing position where his size gives him advantages? I think the SG famine is starting to end in the NBA.

I agree with you partially on Noel as it relates to ideal body. The wizards lack ideal size just about everywhere. I think Noel is going to get bigger though and he's a natural defensive center which is a prize in the nba. He's similar to Tyson Chandler who weighed 224 at the combine.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Destino

[earl]

McLemore can flat out play, but SG is not a position of need for us. If somehow we end up with a pick and he's the BPA, trade down. I'm sure someone would want his services.

but drafting for need is how you pass on melo and wade cuz u have no need cuz u have rip and prince. now if you we are drafting in the 2nd tier i agree. but if the wiz can get a top 3-4 pick and land a top tier talent, i dont think you can trade out of that top tier to land a need. Just my opinion.

[Going Commando]

BPA might be the kid from kansas, Mclemore. his talent pops off the screen and he could be the best SG to come out in awhile. we don't need a SG but if shabazz is off the board i'm not sure we can pass on this kid. I think zeller can contribute immediately and help but i don't see a real dominant big man. I see a solid player but not dominant. As far as Noel, he's a talent for sure but i'm not sure if he is what this team needs. we can't score as a team and he isn't going to help. he really has no position cuz he is too skinny to be a viable threat at the 4-5. Honestly i'd rather have MD's Len. The wiz already have guys that can't play w/ a ton of potential. we need to draft a guy w/ upside but can contribute today.

Len has much less strength on him than Nerlens does. Nerlens is a true C prospect and by the time he finishes growing he's going to be very powerful. He's got a big frame. I think he's exactly what we need, someone who can pull down a ton of boards and control the paint on defense. Scoring from the 5 is much less of a need for this team than rebounding and defense IMO. And Nerlens will probably develop some scoring tools eventually. Overall, scoring hasn't been a big problem since the team got healthy. You take Nerlens or Shabazz if they are available when we pick and don't look back. They're really separating themselves as the two best players in the class.

I don't think McLemore is as dominant as Zeller is. I also don't think McLemore is as good a player or prospect as Beal was. They grew up together and played together in St. Louis and he always played second fiddle to Beal. He's actually older than Beal, and Beal was a major factor as a true freshman on a Florida team loaded with upper class guards because he forced Donovan to find ways to play him. McLemore is almost two years older than a guy like Nerlens.

McLemore's speed and leaping ability are definitely special but the rest of his game is not. He's a good spot up shooter. He's got a pretty good motor. He's unselfish and passes the ball pretty well.

But his handles aren't that great. He's uncomfortable creating off the dribble and he's pretty PG reliant. His handle is markedly worse than Beal's and Beal's seemed pretty mediocre. Right now he's a pure cutter and spot up shooter because of it. Part of it is he doesn't change directions well. He rounds off his turns a ton and can't make sharp moves. He doesn't pace himself well and doesn't have the agility to match his straight line speed. He doesn't have the instincts for the game Beal did either. On either end of the court.

He's also the exact same length as Beal but isn't as strong as Beal. So where do you play him here? Move Beal to the three? That seems unlikely. You'd have to just go with three guard lineups and be at a big size disadvantage most nights. Or McLemore would languish on the bench.

He's a talent with breathtaking speed and leaping ability for sure, but right now I can't see him going higher than fourth, and I personally would take Len over him at 4. If we draft McLemore, it needs to be as a trade chip to make a move on draft day or sometime later that summer.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 02:13 PM ----------

but drafting for need is how you pass on melo and wade cuz u have no need cuz u have rip and prince. now if you we are drafting in the 2nd tier i agree. but if the wiz can get a top 3-4 pick and land a top tier talent, i dont think you can trade out of that top tier to land a need. Just my opinion.

If we draft McLemore, we should be looking to trade him for a Vet IMO.