The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[nuposse87]

McLemore is viewed as the number 1 over all pick by many right now. He probably has higher upside on athleticism alone then Beal, but you could probably argue that of Terrance Ross as well. I think the top 3 right now is probably:

Shabazz

McLemore

Noel

order varies on team need. Those guys have all star potential, 4-10 are probably starter quality, after that its probably a crap shoot.

Len definitely has the frame to be able to add more weight. Davis filled out quite a bit since his rookie campaign, I don't see why Len wouldn't be able to.

[Destino]

but drafting for need is how you pass on melo and wade cuz u have no need cuz u have rip and prince. now if you we are drafting in the 2nd tier i agree. but if the wiz can get a top 3-4 pick and land a top tier talent, i dont think you can trade out of that top tier to land a need. Just my opinion.

I agree with you in that you don't pass on the clearly better player. At the very least you make a trade.

[Reaper 21]

I'm in the minority but trading down and grabbing zeller would be ideal. Would compliment nene very well

[Destino]

Nerlens Noel 2012 Nike Hoop Summit Measurements: Hgt w/ shoes: 6’11, Hgt w/o shoes: 6’10, Wt: 216, W-Span: 7-4, Reach*: 9’1.5

Tyson Chandler 2001 Combine Measurements: Hgt w/ shoes: 7' 0.5, Hgt w/o shoes: 6' 11.5, Wt: 224, W-Span: 7-3, Reach: 9' 2

They seem comparable to me. Note that Noel is currently listed in the 220+ weight range. The question becomes is a very good defensive center worth a very high draft pick? Tyson has obviously switched teams a lot.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Destino

[Going Commando]

Wall is not on the same planet as Wade when it comes to consistently scoring the basketball. He's larger and was averaging 24 ppg in his second season at a higher fg% than Wall has ever had. Lebron isn't going to trade in a primary scoring option for a limited offensive PG that needs the ball in his hands. I know you place Wall highly but he's not in the conversation with Lebron and Wade.

No definitely not the scorer Wade is. Wade is versatile while Wall is a one dimensional scorer. Wade can pull up off the dribble decently well and he can knock down open jumpers from 3 and in the mid range. He's a special slasher too, or at least was, probably the best in the game during his prime. His efficiency came from his ridiculous ability to finish around the basket and get to the FT line.

Wall is still young though, I believe he equates to Wade in his second season, he still has time to grow into a similar caliber player to Wade. And that one scoring dimension that Wall does have is elite and it's the most valuable scoring tool a perimeter player can have IMO. He's every bit a threat to drive that Wade was in his prime and his drives have been one of the best shots in the NBA considering the incredible rate he can get to the line. The other things, Wall can be a DWade clone--possibly even better impact defender than Wade was in his prime, better shot blocker, better at getting strips and off ball steals, better transition defender. And the difference between Wall and Wade as scorers is matched by the difference between Wall and Wade as passers. Wall is on a different planet than Wade as a distributor.

LeBron is today and would be the primary scoring option still with Wall around. His assists would drop some and his scoring would go back up more or less. But those two would be hell on wheels together. Absolutely smothering perimeter D and unstoppable drive and dish game. Surround them with three shooters and you couldn't defend that offense.

Max contracts increase over time as well. Lebron Wade and Bosh are owed a little over 61 million in 2014-15. That not happening. Maybe three max contract to young players that aren't at 20 million yet.

True. I still think you could assemble a three All Star team together with near max deals and be fine down the line in those contracts so long as you are disciplined and avoid the luxury tax enough years to stay out of repeat offender land.

I think Shabazz is also ideally a SG, SF are oversized in the NBA now and why not put him at a wing position where his size gives him advantages? I think the SG famine is starting to end in the NBA.

Shabazz's game is a natural SF though. If he played SG in the NBA, it'd be because of his height, not his skill set. It's the problem Doug Gottlieb illuminated the game he announced. Shabazz is a just under 6'6 3 which does make him a bit short for the position in the NBA. He questioned how many top 6'5-6'6 3s there are in the NBA and questioned Shabazz's upside. But my take is he's got a wingspan over 6'11 and he's got the natural strength to play SF in the NBA today. Just play him at SF and accept the height disadvantage because it's his best position. What you'll get in return is a big speed mismatch because Shabazz would be very fast for an NBA 3.

Bottom line for me is that every one is going to have a serious flaw or two for the most part. Shabazz's slightly worrying tendency to shot jack early in the clock before running a set and his height are his flaws. But the strengths are so remarkable. He has three extremely well developed offensive tools he can go to at an elite level. That's almost unheard of for a 19 year old. He's got an elite drive tool, an elite spot up shooting tool, and an elite back to the basket scoring tool with that terrific hook. He's also pretty good pulling up off the dribble and knocking down shots from mid range. His offensive versatility will translate immediately at either wing position, but is best at SF where his threat to drive would be a nightmare.

I agree with you partially on Noel as it relates to ideal body. The wizards lack ideal size just about everywhere. I think Noel is going to get bigger though and he's a natural defensive center which is a prize in the nba. He's similar to Tyson Chandler who weighed 224 at the combine.

Noel is somewhat similar to Chandler in that sense, but he's a much better athlete than Chandler was. His leaping ability and ability to move about the floor is so special for a player with his length.

I think Noel is going to be a prototype 5 by the time he finishes growing. He's bigger and stronger than Davis was last year and is a true 5 IMO. He's already got some strength on him and does a good job holding deep position and boxing out, surprising given how little bulk he's got. He's just tough and tenacious really. Wins with good positioning and balance right now. He's got broad shoulders, a chiseled frame, long arms, and huge hands. He's only 18 and is the youngest player in the class. Probably has at least six years of physical growth ahead of him. By the time he matures, I think he's going to be physically imposing.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Alex Len: 16 and 13 vs BC last night.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 03:00 PM ----------

Michael (Columbus)

Ben McLemore seems to have the top scoring potential in this years draft class. Think he has a solid chance to be the #1 overall pick?

Chad Ford (1:43 PM)

I do. In fact he's strongly trending in that direction. I spoke with five different GMs this week who told me they'd take him No. 1. Nerlens Noel, Shabazz Muhammad and Alex Len are all in that mix as well, but personally, McLemore has been the best college player I've watched this season. I love him. A great combination of athleticism, length, shooting ability, ball handling and defense. He has the chance to be a very special player at a position that's been very weak over the last five years.

[DCchillin89]

I really wanted to find a way to get Cousins. With the team moving to Seattle, its looking like he'll be part of that rebuilding project and coming to DC would have to be done when his contract expires.

So...

I'm completely on board with Nerlens. We need a banger down low, who can control the paint and dominate the post area. We already have enough finesse in the front court with Nene and Seraphim. I like Booker, but he's too small to be that Chandler-type player.

Wall/Crawford

Beal/Martin

Webster/Vesely/Singleton

Nene/Booker

Noel/Seraphim.

That's actually not too shabby

Edited January 23, 2013 by DCchillin89

[Going Commando]

Nerlens Noel 2012 Nike Hoop Summit Measurements: Hgt w/ shoes: 6’11, Hgt w/o shoes: 6’10, Wt: 216, W-Span: 7-4, Reach*: 9’1.5

Tyson Chandler 2001 Combine Measurements: Hgt w/ shoes: 7' 0.5, Hgt w/o shoes: 6' 11.5, Wt: 224, W-Span: 7-3, Reach: 9' 2

They seem comparable to me. Note that Noel is currently listed in the 220+ weight range. The question becomes is a very good defensive center worth a very high draft pick? Tyson has obviously switched teams a lot.

Their bodies are similar, but IMO Nerlens is a far better athlete. Much better leaper and much quicker and more nimble. Nerlens is a true pogo stick leaper that explodes off the floor. His upside is much higher than Chandler's IMO. Given how young he is and how good his IQ already is, I think he's going to put it together and be a really good NBA player way quicker than Chandler was.

Elite length + elite athleticism + special IQ should be enough to spend a very high pick on him.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 04:19 PM ----------

I'm in the minority but trading down and grabbing zeller would be ideal. Would compliment nene very well

I doubt we'll be able to trade down to get Zeller. If he comes out, I think he'll be a top 5 pick.

[Destino]

Their bodies are similar, but IMO Nerlens is a far better athlete. Much better leaper and much quicker and more nimble. Nerlens is a true pogo stick leaper that explodes off the floor. His upside is much higher than Chandler's IMO. Given how young he is and how good his IQ already is, I think he's going to put it together and be a really good NBA player way quicker than Chandler was.

Elite length + elite athleticism + special IQ should be enough to spend a very high pick on him.

I agree. Each have their advantages, Chandler is strong and there is never a guarantee that any rookie will get as strong as he potentially could. I think Chandler might be a little meaner too... he's got a little anger to him that I like in NBA bigs.

[Going Commando]

McLemore is viewed as the number 1 over all pick by many right now. He probably has higher upside on athleticism alone then Beal, but you could probably argue that of Terrance Ross as well. I think the top 3 right now is probably:

Shabazz

McLemore

Noel

order varies on team need. Those guys have all star potential, 4-10 are probably starter quality, after that its probably a crap shoot.

Len definitely has the frame to be able to add more weight. Davis filled out quite a bit since his rookie campaign, I don't see why Len wouldn't be able to.

McLemore is the flavor of the month but I don't think he'll be top 3 when the draft comes around. The steak doesn't quite match the sizzle when you get down to watching him. Plus there are three really good big men in this class and a perimeter player that's better than him. His flaws are enough to keep him from going so high and he should not be valued above Shabazz IMO. Shabazz is and will be a much better scorer than McLemore and he's bigger and more powerful, more skilled, better instincts and feel for the game, and not that much slower or less explosive. His handle on the ball is much better and he's probably a better all around shooter.

All in all, I think Len has the highest upside in the class, followed by Nerlens. Len's measurables are absolutely ridiculous and you can tell he's smart. Zeller's upside is pretty good at his size and with his quick feet and amazing instincts for the game. Though Zeller's defensive potential at the five hinges on him getting far stronger.

I think Shabazz is going to be a James Harden type and he has All Star upside. Pretty good and worthy of #1 overall IMO. I think he's still the favorite but Nerlens is very close.

[nuposse87]

While I'd usually draft for upside, we ought to look at a player that can make an Immediate impact as well. If I were ranking players and purely upside alone I'd go with:

1. Noel

2. Len

3. Shabazz

4. McLemore

5. Austin

6. Gobert

7. Poythress

8. Porter

9. Zeller

10. Cauley-Stein (If he chooses to come out)

Guys who have upside but could actually useful from day one would go:

1. Shabazz

2. Noel

3. McLemore (although he's redundant on the roster..so we'd end up trading him)

4. Zeller

5. Len

6. Otto Porter

I think we ought to draft being mindful how the league is changing. Wing play is very important and teams that have great defensive potential go far if you don't have the likes of LBJ or Durant. Noel would be ideal for that in case we do win the lottery. I think Len would be a bit of a project, but if we elect to keep Okafor for the first half of next season, I think it'd go pretty for his learning on how to at least impact that facet of the game. I want us to go after a SF, because I honestly give us a 25% chance at becoming an attractive enough market for Cousins to try to force his way this year, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a raw big as its a good move for the future but we need talent that is ready to make a run. There is still a lot of college ball left to be played though, and the combine measurements will go a long way changing my current outlook.

[Going Commando]

I agree. Each have their advantages, Chandler is strong and there is never a guarantee that any rookie will get as strong as he potentially could. I think Chandler might be a little meaner too... he's got a little anger to him that I like in NBA bigs.

Yeah Chandler is very strong.

It's easy to get down on Nerlens for his inept scoring skills. But you just have to remind yourself he's only 18 and he's already playing a high profile role as the best player at the biggest and most scrutinized college team in the country.

I think Nerlens can eventually get an effective offensive game. He's got a #1 overall pedigree, it should be achievable. He's got a better handle on the ball than I expected and if he masters a few dribbles and a spin move like Dwight he'll be able to get to the basket and score. His quickness and ability to uncoil and elevate way above the rim is like Dwight's. So explosive with his movements. Obviously there is a big strength difference, but Nerlens is still a surprisingly powerful dunker and effective finisher despite being so skinny. He's a smart player. Stick him with a good big man coach and start developing his back to the basket game. If he develops a nice set of jump hooks he can hit with both hands he could be an All Star given his defensive and rebounding abilities.

[TradeTheBeal!]

I agree. Each have their advantages, Chandler is strong and there is never a guarantee that any rookie will get as strong as he potentially could. I think Chandler might be a little meaner too... he's got a little anger to him that I like in NBA bigs.

Good point. Chandler built himself into pro big through hard work and force of will and it took him about four years to do so. And yea, that chip on his shoulder that he plays with is one of the reasons he's one of my favorite players.

About the game tonight, anyone know when the last time we finished 3-2 on a 5-game west coast road swing?

[Going Commando]

Remember when the Jazz had those awful indigo and violent colors with the mountain range logo?

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 09:19 PM ----------

We're having a hard time getting calls tonight.

[StillUnknown]

I absolutely hate it when refs wait to see if the shot falls before calling a foul. A foul is a foul, it should not be predicated on whether or not the player makes that shot.

[Going Commando]

Back to shooting like our old selves I see.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 09:36 PM ----------

I absolutely hate it when refs wait to see if the shot falls before calling a foul. A foul is a foul, it should not be predicated on whether or not the player makes that shot.

"Ah **** he missed it? Guess we gotta call it then..."

[gortiz]

Back to shooting like our old selves I see.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 09:36 PM ----------

"Ah **** he missed it? Guess we gotta call it then..."

jesus ...just saw the box score. 5-21 shooting ...not a good start. did get to the line 11 times.

[Going Commando]

Dear Lord Kanter is ugly.

This game is going to get ugly if we keep shooting like crap and turning it over and missing FTs.

[StillUnknown]

jesus ...just saw the box score. 5-21 shooting ...not a good start. did get to the line 11 times.

Last game of a long road trip is usually ugly.

[Going Commando]

New rule: no more driving by Booker or Ariza.

[StillUnknown]

New rule: no more driving by Booker or Ariza.

That last Booker move brought back memories of JaVale.

---------- Post added January-23rd-2013 at 09:48 PM ----------

Enes Kanter having a pretty good half.

Our guy continues to not get minutes.

[Going Commando]

This is going to be a beat down. We're playing terrible and unfocused. Utah is super sharp. Their reserves are lighting us up.

[Renegade7]

Can't possibly play worse, can only play better. Damn, guys, really???

[MonkFan8]

There is going to come a time when Wall's blazing speed is gone. Do we really want to invest in a player that really only has that skill at an elite level 3 years into his NBA career?

I'm beginning to sour on the idea of him as a max player.

Team is shooting horribly and the lineups have been bizarre.

[Skin'emAlive]

We always suck against the Jazz...