Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc


BRAVEONAWARPATH

Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Matt Barnes!? **** no. He can spend the rest of the season stalking Fisher after late nights at the club. Don't want that clown near DC. 

 

He's always had a good reputation as teammate and good guy to coach.  On the floor, he knows his role and plays it effectively.  I dont care what he does with Derek Fisher.  

 

I guarantee he winds up on a contender cuz people value what he can bring on a team in that spot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the other hand, we are getting to the point where our first round pick isn't all that important. Once you get to the mid to late 20s in the first round, those things almost get traded like candy and aren't worth a whole lot.

 

I get that it is a deep draft but really how deep? And Ernie is picking who doesn't have a great track record of picking outside the top 3, to be honest?

 

What would you look for with that pick? A young athletic big with potential? Probably gone by pick 25. A bench scorer? You could get a proven bench scorer with Lou Williams. 

 

Im not saying trade the pick, but the value of it is a bit overstated. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah count me in as being okay with a first round pick being traded for Lou Williams. Yeah Golden state will win the title and we're not better than them but we have a chance to get to the East Finals and play a very competitive series with Cleveland. I know a championship is the goal but getting to the East Finals goes a long way with players potentially coming here in the future and Lou Williams certainly helps that. He's averaging almost 19 a game, our entire bench doesn't score 19 in most games for us. 

Edited by GOSKINS_08
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Fight4RGIII said:

On the other hand, we are getting to the point where our first round pick isn't all that important. Once you get to the mid to late 20s in the first round, those things almost get traded like candy and aren't worth a whole lot.

 

I get that it is a deep draft but really how deep? And Ernie is picking who doesn't have a great track record of picking outside the top 3, to be honest?

 

What would you look for with that pick? A young athletic big with potential? Probably gone by pick 25. A bench scorer? You could get a proven bench scorer with Lou Williams. 

 

Im not saying trade the pick, but the value of it is a bit overstated. 

I agree with this.  However, I hope EG is exploring ALL options before giving up the pick.  If the 1st rounder is given up as part of the package, it makes the 2nd round pick that much more important.  We're now in a league where 2nd round picks not only make the 15 man roster, but a lot of guys are contributing in their rookie, 1st or 2nd years. 

 

*edit*

 

I think I'd be OK w/ Barnes on the roster.  He's a good defender and would be another body to throw at Lebron (to hopefully get under his skin, too) if we played them in the playoffs. 

Edited by RonArtest15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not too excited about the idea of trading for Lou Williams. Between him over performing, the cost, and the fact that he won't get nearly the same number of foul calls in the playoffs /  him outside of a Lakers jersey it just reeks of a move we regret later.

Edited by Weganator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever move does get made, I hope it comes before Thursday. We have one easy (knock on wood) game against the 76ers before our schedule starts to pick up again.

 

It would go a long way to have our acquisition hopefully get some good minutes with the bench on Friday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only thing for me is that the team for the first time in ages feel legitimately close.  The core is 26, 23, 23, and our real window comes 3 to 5 years from now.  What we need now is to either hit on multiple post 20 picks with solid contributors or get one stupidly lucky late pick in the mold of Leonard or Gorbert.  I think post 20 picks still pan out at about 15% to 25% range, which is certainly a crap shoot, but when you throw 3 to 5 attempts at it, you are likely to hit at least one (but of course, there is the Ernie factor)

 

From Zach Lowe's article today

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18727231/zach-lowe-jimmy-butler-boston-celtics-latest-nba-trade-deadline-talk

Quote

The Clippers are still kicking the tires on everything, including their pipedream of snaring Carmelo Anthony from the Kazoos without giving up any of their core four guys. They've called about almost every available small forward type, but no one is in a rush to take Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers, and a distant first-round pick. That won't get them Wilson Chandler, and the Wiz threw their phones on the floor when the Clippers inquired about Otto Porter, per league sources.

I lol'd:ols:

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fight4RGIII said:

On the other hand, we are getting to the point where our first round pick isn't all that important. Once you get to the mid to late 20s in the first round, those things almost get traded like candy and aren't worth a whole lot.

 

I get that it is a deep draft but really how deep? And Ernie is picking who doesn't have a great track record of picking outside the top 3, to be honest?

 

What would you look for with that pick? A young athletic big with potential? Probably gone by pick 25. A bench scorer? You could get a proven bench scorer with Lou Williams. 

 

Im not saying trade the pick, but the value of it is a bit overstated. 

 

This was more true in yesterday's NBA.  Not any more.  When the cap jumped, rookie contracts didn't scale up proportionally.  They are a market inefficiency now--the most efficient deals considering cost vs control and production outside of max contracts for the likes of LeBron.

 

And the punitive luxury tax system that was created in 2011 is something to actually fear now, and you teams who are deep in the tax like Cleveland being squeezed on their benches because paying a bench guy making like 7 million a year will actually cost them like 15-20 million dollars and they end up losing revenue in a year they won the championship.

 

Draft picks are the key to sustainable spending.  They're the key to fielding a decent bench.  That's why no one is willing to give them up this year.  Two years ago Cleveland paid two firsts to get Mozgov.  This year Sacramento gets  a single protected first for DeMarcus Cousins.  The value of draft picks has changed.

 

Also this FO has a better draft record than we give them credit for.  JaVale, NY, Seraphin, and Booker are all still in the league.  Jordan Clarkson and Shelvin Mack are still in the league.  Sato and Oubre were good finds for how late they were taken.  Aside from that 2011 class, the FO has used the draft well since 2010 and it's the reason we're good today.  Saying something to the effect of "well Ernie sucks at the draft anyway" is a poor rationalization for making short sighted trades.

 

I look at the Warriors, Rockets, and Spurs today as examples of how valuable draft picks can be.  Those organizations keep their picks and patiently develop their drafted talent and they are power teams whose rotations include a lot of late first and second rounders.  That kind of sustainability and stability is what we need to be shooting for.  I don't want us to only be good for like two years and then take a major step back because we lost guys like Oubre to free agency and had nobody in the pipeline after him.  I want us to get to the point like Houston or San Antonio where a sub 40 win season is unheard of.

 

Now speaking to who might be available at the 24th pick this year, a young athletic big with potential or an upperclassmen wing with an NBA ready body and skill set is exactly the kind of guy you're looking for, and who is often available.  Montrezl Harrell was the 32nd pick in his draft.  Draymond Green was the 35th pick in his.  Jae Crowder went 34th.  Malcolm Brogdon went 36th.  These guys are out there every single year.  This year I like Caleb Swanigan and Josh Hart to be that kind of gem.  I would much rather draft Josh Hart at 24 than trade the pick for a season and a half of Lou Williams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I look at the Warriors, Rockets, and Spurs today as examples of how valuable draft picks can be.  Those organizations keep their picks and patiently develop their drafted talent and they are power teams whose rotations include a lot of late first and second rounders.  That kind of sustainability and stability is what we need to be shooting for.  I don't want us to only be good for like two years and then take a major step back because we lost guys like Oubre to free agency and had nobody in the pipeline after him.  I want us to get to the point like Houston or San Antonio where a sub 40 win season is unheard of.

 

 

I dont know if I agree with that characterization of how those teams were built.  Except for maybe the Spurs.  But the Spurs are like the Patriots, often imitated, never duplicated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Houston?

Harden - Trade

Gordon - UFA

Nene - UFA

Beverley - Trade

Ariza - UFA

Brewer - Trade

Ennis - Trade

McDaniels - Trade

Brown - UFA

Wiltjer - UDFA

Onuaku - 2016 2nd

Dekker - 2015 1st

Harrell - 2015 2nd

 

Of their entire roster, only 3 players were drafted by the Rockets. How exactly does Houston "value" their draft picks?

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Warriors:

Curry - 2009 1st

Thompson - 2011 1st

Green - 2012 2nd

Durant - UFA

West - UFA

Livingston - UFA

McGee - UFA

Pachulia - UFA

Iguodala - UFA

Jones  - 2016 1st

McCraw - 2016 2nd

Looney - 2015 1st

Clark - UDFA

McAdoo - UDFA

Weber - UDFA

 

The Warriors drafted 3/5 of their starting line-up. The other 3 draft picks on their roster are JAGs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Warriors:

Curry - 2009 1st

Thompson - 2011 1st

Green - 2012 2nd

Durant - UFA

West - UFA

Livingston - UFA

McGee - UFA

Pachulia - UFA

Iguodala - UFA

Jones  - 2016 1st

McCraw - 2016 2nd

Looney - 2015 1st

Clark - UDFA

McAdoo - UDFA

Weber - UDFA

 

The Warriors drafted 3/5 of their starting line-up. The other 3 draft picks on their roster are JAGs.

 

 

Even 2 of the 3 in the starting lineup were in the lottery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Houston?

Harden - Trade

Gordon - UFA

Nene - UFA

Beverley - Trade

Ariza - UFA

Brewer - Trade

Ennis - Trade

McDaniels - Trade

Brown - UFA

Wiltjer - UDFA

Onuaku - 2016 2nd

Dekker - 2015 1st

Harrell - 2015 2nd

 

Of their entire roster, only 3 players were drafted by the Rockets. How exactly does Houston "value" their draft picks?

 

 

I'll give them credit because Capela (you left him out), Dekker, and Harrell are solid contributors in their rotation.  The Wiz would take any of them.  But I still wouldnt hold on to those picks if I thought a move could be made.  

 

As far as the draft is concerned, the Wiz can be proud of their roster.  Most good teams don't have 3 core players and a key bench contributor outta the draft.  They're doing better than most.

Edited by justice98
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Of their entire roster, only 3 players were drafted by the Rockets. How exactly does Houston "value" their draft picks?

 

The Rockets are one of the best drafting teams in the league.  They use their picks to stockpile assets and value.  This is the list of guys they've picked since 2010:

 

2010 1 14 Patrick Patterson 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PF Kentucky
2011 1 14 Marcus Morris 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PF Kansas
2011 1 23 Nikola Mirotić[w] 23px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png ESP PF Real Madrid (Spain)
2011 2 38 Chandler Parsons 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA SF Florida
2012 1 12 Jeremy Lamb 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA SG Connecticut
2012 1 16 Royce White 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PF Iowa State
2012 1 18 Terrence Jones 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PF Kentucky
2012 2 44 Furkan Aldemir (from Los Angeles Clippers)[x] 23px-Flag_of_Turkey.svg.png TUR SF/PF Galatasaray (Turkey)
2013 2 34 Isaiah Canaan (from Phoenix Suns)[y] 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PG Murray State
2014 1 25 Clint Capela 16px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png  CHE PF Élan Chalon (France)
2014 2 42 Nick Johnson (from New York Knicks)[z] 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PG/SG Arizona
2015 1 18 Sam Dekker (from New Orleans)[aa] 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA SF Wisconsin
2015 2 32 Montrezl Harrell (from New York)[z] 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PF Louisville
2016 2 37 Chinanu Onuaku (from New York via Portland and Sacramento)[ab] 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png USA PF/C Louisville
2016 2 43 Zhou Qi 23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_ CHN C Xinjiang Flying Tigers (China)

 

 


That's over a 50% hit rate and in that span their one lottery pick was Lamb--a part of the package that got them Harden.  That is the way a good organization uses draft picks.  They don't trade them off for the likes of Lou Williams.  That's how you end up like the Clippers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...