CNN: Florida pastor calls off burning of Qurans

[Burgold]

I don't know if a greater message for love, peace, and understanding has ever been so perverted in the history of the Earth.

The message of love, peace, and understanding when completely filtered through self interest is a very dangerous thing.

People unfortunately often use religions as tools, a means to an end that way the wisdom and caring within them can be forgotten or ignored.

[GoSkins561]

Well, i'm beginning to wonder if you can. You completely ignored everything else in the post to focus on the analogy and go for the "gotcha".. The point of it is that the lion was by and large not bothering anyone until you poked it.

This guy "exposing hundreds of thousands of loonies" as you say, is pretty much the same thing. the overwhelming majority of them were not angry enough to demonstrate before Pastor Muttonchop began his idiotic book burining parade.

Ask yourself this...

How many mulsims did you straight up hate and want to kill before 9-11?

How many since?

I would bet the numbers are vastly different. Were you so angry before the attack on what you hold dear happened? Would you consider yourself rational?

Assuming you do, why isn't that same logic applied to people from their side?

~Bang

Muslims have been getting upset with Americans because of how we think for years now. It doesn't matter if you're a Christian or a cartoonist, if one offends them, they become outraged and start burning the American flag. I'm sorry but if one lunatic that is going to burn a few qurans has the ability to upset you to the point where you can't distinguish one man from and entire country(the craziest threatening violence), you're a lunatic.

[NavyDave]

So Muslims are not capable of thinking rationally, like a Lion?

They apparently can't if you have to worry about death and destruction over the image of their prophet or burning their book.

When is the last time you heard liberals come out and say that is not the Muslim thing to do or the Godless thing to do, in the case of the latest Eco terrorist attack.

[Predicto]

So Muslims are not capable of thinking rationally, like a Lion?

No, of course not. But SOME aren't. Some are really, really mad at us, for reasons good and bad. Why piss them off for NO reason?

It is amazing how this discussion gets turned around.

Here is the line of thinking:

1) We have a free speech right to burn Qurans, even though it is provocative and offensive to Muslims (true)

2) Some overreaction is likely, somewhere in the world (especially where we have been fighting wars) when you intentionally do something provocative toward someone's religion for absolutely no reason other than to be offensive (also true)

3) Said overreaction is bad and unjustified and grossly out of proportion to the provocation (also true)

4) Therefore, we should do the offensive act and provoke these people for no reason (completely FALSE)

5) There is something wrong with criticizing people who want to do the offensive act and their free speech rights are being infringed (also completely FALSE).

Some of the people in this thread seem incapable of understanding why #4 and #5 are false. Just because you have a right to do something does not mean that no one is allowed to point out that you are a complete asshat for doing it. And your free speech rights are not being impinged at all when someone correctly points out that you are a complete asshat who very well might get some of our troops shot at - for no good reason.

[Burgold]

Muslims have been getting upset with Americans because of how we think for years now. It doesn't matter if you're a Christian or a cartoonist, if one offends them, they become outraged and start burning the American flag. I'm sorry but if one lunatic that is going to burn a few qurans has the ability to upset you to the point where you can't distinguish one man from and entire country(the craziest threatening violence), you're a lunatic.

But we do the same. When we see the image of a muslim beheading an innocent... we generally don't say. "Wow! The radicals are crazy." We point to the culture and say, look what they're like. You can see that phenomenon in the very post I quoted.

Now, I get that and when I saw people dancing in the streets after 9/11 or whooping after acts of suicide bombing... then it's hard for me not to say their all a bunch of evil so and sos, but we all overgeneralize and ascribe the actions of a few to many. We all suffer from that kind of them-ism. Sometimes, it makes sense. Often, it doesn't.

[Predicto]

I'm sorry but if one lunatic that is going to burn a few qurans has the ability to upset you to the point where you can't distinguish one man from and entire country(the craziest threatening violence), you're a lunatic.

You mean like the inability to distinguish between the 19 Muslim guys who brought down the World Trade Center from the 1.5 billion Muslims who didn't? I'm surprised. From reading your prior posts, I honestly didn't think you understood that point.

[Predicto]

They apparently can't if you have to worry about death and destruction over the image of their prophet or burning their book.

.

No, I guess THEY can't.

Gosh darn those THEY. Good thing WE are so different. Especially you, Dave.

[Bang]

Muslims have been getting upset with Americans because of how we think for years now. It doesn't matter if you're a Christian or a cartoonist, if one offends them, they become outraged and start burning the American flag. I'm sorry but if one lunatic that is going to burn a few qurans has the ability to upset you to the point where you can't distinguish one man from and entire country(the craziest threatening violence), you're a lunatic.

Once again you've either totally missed the point, or purposely ignored it.

At which point i can't see any reason in continuing the discussion. I don't think you're capable of doing so.

~Bang

[GoSkins561]

So drawing Mohammed is wrong, burning Qurans is wrong, what other rules do non American Muslims need to live by to prevent Muslim violence? Everytime one person does something that's offensive all Americans pay the price. It's getting ridiculous, this is ONE man and a few followers, I don't agree with what he is doing, but the reaction is 10x worse.

[Predicto]

So drawing Mohammed is wrong, burning Qurans is wrong, what other rules do non American Muslims need to live by to prevent Muslim violence? Everytime one person does something that's offensive all Americans pay the price. It's getting ridiculous, this is ONE man and a few followers, I don't agree with what he is doing, but the reaction is 10x worse.

How about just not being an asshat toward Muslims (or anyone) for no reason, and not acting all surprised and butthurt when people notice the asshattery and disapprove of it?

That would be a good lesson for everyone to learn.

[grhqofb5]

So drawing Mohammed is wrong, burning Qurans is wrong, what other rules do non American Muslims need to live by to prevent Muslim violence? Everytime one person does something that's offensive all Americans pay the price. It's getting ridiculous, this is ONE man and a few followers, I don't agree with what he is doing, but the reaction is 10x worse.

Here's a preview of the next 3 questions to come your way.

(1) Isn't that the same as saying when 19 muslims do something, all muslims pay the price?

(2) Aren't you forgetting that there are extremists on both sides?

(3) How can you prove that the number of muslim extremists is disproportionate to the number of christian extremists?

You're probably going to need to write a book to refute these types of propositions.

[GoSkins561]

How about just not being an asshat toward Muslims (or anyone) for no reason, and not acting all surprised and butthurt when people notice the asshattery and disapprove of it?

That would be a good lesson for everyone to learn.

I agree, I think that's a great idea that would work great in a world without ass hats and suicide bombers. Unfortunately, The USA is full of things that are always going to offend Muslims and Christians, the difference is, one tends to react differently than the other.

[Bang]

I agree, I think that's a great idea that would work great in a world without ass hats and suicide bombers. Unfortunately, The USA is full of things that are always going to offend Muslims and Christians, the difference is, one tends to react differently than the other.

So because they react violently to people burning their most sacred text, that means we should just go ahead and press their buttons, then get all pissed off when they react as predicted?

I fail to see how that

A/ makes any sense

B/ is in any way mature

C/ is in any way in keeping with the book YOu believe,

D/ separates you from them.

~Bang

[Predicto]

So because they react violently to people burning their most sacred text, that means we should just go ahead and press their buttons, then get all pissed off when they react as predicted?

I fail to see how that

A/ makes any sense

B/ is in any way mature

C/ is in any way in keeping with the book YOu believe,

D/ separates you from them.

~Bang

Well, D is a little different. He is correct that Christian radicals rarely send suicide bombers against Muslims when Bibles (or US flags) get burnt.

Unfortunately, the conclusion that he draws from this is that Christians can do no wrong and should never be criticized for what they do, no matter how stupid or meanspirited or counterproductive. As long as some Muslim radicals are worse and more hotheaded, then anything Christians do to provoke them should be applauded and supported without question. After all, we are the Good Guys, and you always have to choose sides.

[GoSkins561]

So because they react violently to people burning their most sacred text, that means we should just go ahead and press their buttons, then get all pissed off when they react as predicted?

I fail to see how that

A/ makes any sense

B/ is in any way mature

C/ is in any way in keeping with the book YOu believe,

D/ separates you from them.

~Bang

I never said we should do it on purpose and I don't think this pastor should be doing it. My initial response to SHF was, one lunatic is exposing thousands of lunatics, (which is the truth) and for some reason you have a problem with that. At some point we need to stop giving in and realize they have irrational expectations. This problem isn't our problem, it's a Muslim problem because they react with violence. It's not my problem.

[Bang]

Well, D is a little different. He is correct that Christian radicals rarely send suicide bombers against Muslims when Bibles (or US flags) get burnt.

Unfortunately, the conclusion that he draws from this is that Christians can do no wrong and should never be criticized for what they do, no matter how stupid or meanspirited or counterproductive. As long as some Muslim radicals are worse and more hotheaded, then anything Christians do to provoke them should be applauded and supported without question. After all, we are the Good Guys, and you always have to choose sides.

Ok, granted there are vast differences, to my knowledge GoSkins does not condone killing innocents in retaliation for slights, nor does he condone threatening them into doing what he wants as he is complaining about.

However, to purposely poke the lion with no other reason for it than to piss it off.. it may not be exactly the same, but serves the same purpose. All it does is unneccessarily inflame.

Y'all know me, I'm STLL behind the war 110%. However, i do believe as you say we ARE supposed to be the good guys, and our fight is out of neccesity rather than just nasty malice.

~Bang

[Predicto]

I never said we should do it on purpose and I don't think this pastor should be doing it. My initial response to SHF was, one lunatic is exposing thousands of lunatics, (which is the truth) and for some reason you have a problem with that.

Of course I have a problem with that. We are trying to calm things down over there, not rile them up.

At some point we need to stop giving in and realize they have irrational expectations.

It is unrealistic of them to expect that we not go out of our way to offend them for no reason? I guess I don't see it that way.

And what are we "giving in" on? Our right to be offensive for no reason? Is our sacred honor at stake here, and it can only be defended by going out of our way to be jerks?

I will defend to the death the right of any American to burn a Quran, or a Bible, or a Flag. It is an absolute right, protected by our Constitution, and rightfully so. I will also call any person who burns a Quran or a Bible or a Flag a complete asshat that deserves no respect. And if they decide not to burn that Quran or Bible or Flag, I will not consider them as having "given in" - I will consider them to have stopped being asshats.

This problem isn't our problem, it's a Muslim problem because they react with violence. It's not my problem.

Did you read posts 73 and 79 in this thread. Just because some of "them" have a problem doesn't mean that some of "us" have a problem too. Even if their problem is worse, it doesn't excuse "our" problem. An asshat is still an asshat, and should not be encouraged in his asshattery.

[Bang]

I never said we should do it on purpose and I don't think this pastor should be doing it. My initial response to SHF was, one lunatic is exposing thousands of lunatics, (which is the truth) and for some reason you have a problem with that. At some point we need to stop giving in and realize they have irrational expectations. This problem isn't our problem, it's a Muslim problem because they react with violence. It's not my problem.

I think I'm having a problem with the "exposing thousands of lunatics". I wonder how many of these people you see on the news this week would be out burning flags if this pastor had not decided to have his little party? Probably an fraction of a fraction of a percent? Like I said earlier,, think back, when was the last time we saw big demonstrations like this with flags being burnt and death to America being chanted? It's been a good while.

It's a delicate mission... unlike any war we've ever fought. We're fighting a just war and all the while making sure we're trying to fight the right people for the right reason. And as we all know, that is a very small minority of the muslim population. In my opinion, the fact that these angry protests have all but disappeared and th fact that the Muslim-wide Jihad has NOT materialized as the radicals had hoped it would tells me we ARE winning the hearts and minds battle. We have to be willing and ready to respect how they live, expecially when we're guests in their house. Obviously that does not extend to all beliefs,, we can condemn their treatment of women for example.. but burning their holy book serves absolutely no purpose except to re-ignite any anger that had subsided, extend the fighting and create NEW lunaticvs, rather than expose old ones.

Think of it from the perspective of your own life. You and I are certainly not violent lunatics, but is there anything in your life so precious that seeing it defiled could cause that kind of anger, so mad you could kill.. so angry that you'd gladly die just so long as you could strike at them? I'm sure there is.. I know there is for me.

Angry protesting people don't actually = lunatics ready to kill and blow things up.

If that were so, then there'd be a war in DC practically every week.

i think the folks who are over there angrily demonstrating against this guy have a definite point.

~Bang

[Special K]

Wow, glad to hear this "pastor" was able to quell his lunatic-ness for a quick second. This is just the MOST ridiculous thing ever.

First, people are correct that the single actions of one lunatic shouldn't upset the Taliban or Al-Qaeda to the point where they would retaliate against us. Well newsflash, this IS THE MO of the Islamic extremists. They use one little event, or one public statement, project that to America as a whole, and start plans for retaliation. ANY excuse they can use they will. They are NOT normal people, they don't abide logical rationale.

NORMAL people would be able to recognize this idiotic Quran burning for what it was, a publicity stunt to get attention. Normal people would brush this guy aside because he's obviously a total piece of crap human being.

It's unfortunate that one long lunatic could do something that would impact this war on terror in such a negative way and focus more negative attention on not only America, but our troops overseas who are in harm's way. this whole this is just absolutely absurd. I'm embarassed to have to share my humanity with such a dumbass.

[Kilmer17]

Stop calling us lunatics or we'll kill you!!!!!

[Predicto]

Stop calling us lunatics or we'll kill you!!!!!

Stop getting mad when I call you names!!!!

whee!

[Gracelander]

So now it's called off?? Gotta call Jet Blue real quick. Also does anybody know Amazon.com's return policy on 600 korans?

[GoSkins561]

So now it's called off?? Gotta call Jet Blue real quick. Also does anybody know Amazon.com's return policy on 600 korans?

Attention whore, you're going to get ES bombed.

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

And now for something completely different . . . Terry Jones, the would-be Quran-burning preacher, and radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh both attended the same high school in Cape Girardeau, Mo., in 1969.

[GoSkins561]

And now for something completely different . . . Terry Jones, the would-be Quran-burning preacher, and radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh both attended the same high school in Cape Girardeau, Mo., in 1969.

Rush is probably a member of Westboro Baptist Church.