Poll: Would you attend a gay marriage/civil union ceremony, and support the couple as if hetero?

[rincewind]

I guess that's why Jesus said "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

'a man against his father,

a daughter against her mother,

a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -

a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "

Damn I'm glad I'm not Christian.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Sexuality isn't a choice.

I'm actually somewhat surprised no one has yet latched on to this comment and launched a war over semantics.

No offense, but this issue pushes me farther and farther away from being able to understand any religous base. I can't say it drives me more towards being an atheist, because I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the existence of a higher being or not. Personally, I doubt it has anything to do with Jesus or his teaching either. I always thought his main lesson was to love your fellow man - and we should all be happy when somebody finds their special someone, especially our children.

This is well-stated and very much in line with my own perspective on the issue of religion v. sexuality

[Skin'Em84]

Keast has it right (and therefore Zoony.)

Plus, there's a difference between seeing my daughter (or son) win an Adult Movie Award vs. a gay wedding.

One involves my child winning an award for having sex on screen (with a good chance of the video being shown), the other is my child marrying someone he or she loves.

I'd rather, MUCH rather go to the wedding. Hell, I'd rather my child be gay than a pornstar, as much as I love porn stars.

[Zguy28]

Well since you were kind enough to respond...

One is selling yourself on video and is generally considered the seediest of seedy professions.

Really? Because you couldn't tell by looking at some of the thread titles and the talk that flies around here. Porn stars are glorified.

Being gay simply involves loving who you love.

I think you know its a lot more than just that. But rationalize away.

No offense,

No offense taken.

but this issue pushes me farther and farther away from being able to understand any religous base. I can't say it drives me more towards being an atheist, because I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the existence of a higher being or not. Personally, I doubt it has anything to do with Jesus or his teaching either. I always thought his main lesson was to love your fellow man - and we should all be happy when somebody finds their special someone, especially our children.

It is what it is. A sin is a sin is a sin.

Homosexuality (just like adultery, fornication, and divorce (w/o just cause)) is a sin. It just is. If that hurts people's feelings, so be it.

[rincewind]

Homosexuality (just like adultery, fornication, and divorce (w/o just cause)) is a sin. It just is. If that hurts people's feelings, so be it.

Leaving the porn herring alone...

Would you seriously risk alienating your child to the point of possibly never talking to you again simply because you didn't attend their civil union ceremony because you believed it was a 'sin'?

I never understood people who put either religion or country ahead of family... guess I never will.

[Zguy28]

Leaving the porn herring alone...

Would you seriously risk alienating your child to the point of possibly never talking to you again simply because you didn't attend their civil union ceremony because you believed it was a 'sin'?

I never understood people who put either religion or country ahead of family... guess I never will.

You never will unless you become one. And I don't expect you to. That's why I was saying Good Day when you passed me in the doorway.

[rincewind]

You never will unless you become one. And I don't expect you to. That's why I was saying Good Day when you passed me in the doorway.

You were saying 'good day' before I entered the thread because you don't expect me to religious? Odd.

[Special K]

A sin is a sin is a sin.

Exactly. That's why I asked the question in the beginning: for people who wouldn't attend a gay wedding, would they attend the wedding of people who had been previously divorced (without "cause")? What about the wedding of people who had been living with one another and thus, living in "sin"? What about the wedding of a bride who is pregnant? Or the wedding of people who have lived in sin and had 1 or more children out of wedlock?

Using your rationale, by attending their weddings, you are supporting them and the sins they have been continually committing. You are supporting a relationship that has lived in sin throughout pretty much the entire duration of the relationship prior to the wedding... Is that not just as bad? Are people who've been living in sin throughout their relationship also making a mockery of something that is so sacred to God by getting married...when much of the basis of their relationship involves sinful behavior?

To the people who would not go to a gay child's marriage...would you attend the wedding of a child whom you know engaged in premarital sex (and FYI, most people getting married these days don't wait for the wedding...)? If you don't have a problem with supporting a child engaged in premarital relations, why do you have a problem supporting a child who is involved in a homosexual relationship? Is there somewhere in the Bible that says homosexuality is a greater sin than relations outside of wedlock? I thought a sin was a sin was a sin?

[Bliz]

Hell' date=' I'd rather my child be gay than a pornstar, as much as I love porn stars.[/quote']

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=283949

Vote, and make your voice heard

[Zguy28]

Exactly. That's why I asked the question in the beginning: for people who wouldn't attend a gay wedding, would they attend the wedding of people who had been previously divorced (without "cause")? What about the wedding of people who had been living with one another and thus, living in "sin"? What about the wedding of a bride who is pregnant? Or the wedding of people who have lived in sin and had 1 or more children out of wedlock?

Using your rationale, by attending their weddings, you are supporting them and the sins they have been continually committing. You are supporting a relationship that has lived in sin throughout pretty much the entire duration of the relationship prior to the wedding... Is that not just as bad? Are people who've been living in sin throughout their relationship also making a mockery of something that is so sacred to God by getting married...when much of the basis of their relationship involves sinful behavior?

To the people who would not go to a gay child's marriage...would you attend the wedding of a child whom you know engaged in premarital sex (and FYI, most people getting married these days don't wait for the wedding...)? If you don't have a problem with supporting a child engaged in premarital relations, why do you have a problem supporting a child who is involved in a homosexual relationship? Is there somewhere in the Bible that says homosexuality is a greater sin than relations outside of wedlock? I thought a sin was a sin was a sin?

The answer depends.

My pastor spoke out about this two Sunday's ago. He told the congregation that cohabitation and pre-marital sex was a sin, and don't ask us to marry you in a big ceremony if you are currently having sex. What he also said was that if you want to get right with God (read: repent)and the church, then stop sinning (having sex) and come talk to the pastors and they would do a private ceremony to unite them so that they are right before God. But the church (aka believers) cannot condone sins, especially one's committed in open rebellion.

[zoony]

These are all very valid questions. :munchout:

would they attend the wedding of people who had been previously divorced (without "cause")? What about the wedding of people who had been living with one another and thus, living in "sin"? What about the wedding of a bride who is pregnant? Or the wedding of people who have lived in sin and had 1 or more children out of wedlock?

would you attend the wedding of a child whom you know engaged in premarital sex (and FYI, most people getting married these days don't wait for the wedding...)?

Is there somewhere in the Bible that says homosexuality is a greater sin than relations outside of wedlock?

[zoony]

The answer depends.

My pastor spoke out about this two Sunday's ago. He told the congregation that cohabitation and pre-marital sex was a sin, and don't ask us to marry you in a big ceremony if you are currently having sex.

So, small ceremony for the "minor sin". No ceremony for the major one?

[twa]

So, small ceremony for the "minor sin". No ceremony for the major one?

You overlook the repent bit among other things

Tis a big deal in some circles:)

[Zguy28]

So, small ceremony for the "minor sin". No ceremony for the major one?

Nope. Big ceremony=celebration. Private with just the pastor and the couple and a witness=getting your heart right with God.

You also conveniently left out the part where I said it involved repentance.

[stevenaa]

These are all very valid questions. :munchout:

Not apples and oranges. A ceremony of SS couple is an affirmation of the sinful behavior with the intent to continue in the sin. The others are not.

[twa]

Would you seriously risk alienating your child to the point of possibly never talking to you again simply because you didn't attend their civil union ceremony because you believed it was a 'sin'?

I never understood people who put either religion or country ahead of family... guess I never will.

If they(parent&child) love each other why would a parent refusing to attend a ceremony have that result?

Is attending a wedding that important to the child they would possibly never talk to their parent again?...if so perhaps the fault is not on the parent.

I'll never understand those that think any decision should be supported as a condition of love.

[rincewind]

If they(parent&child) love each other why would a parent refusing to attend a ceremony have that result?

Is attending a wedding that important to the child they would possibly never talk to their parent again?...if so perhaps the fault is not on the parent.

I'll never understand those that think any decision should be supported as a condition of love.

Question 1. Why? Because the parent felt self important enough to not understand that the day of the wedding is about the couple and not the parents. I would have been incredibly insulted if either of my parentst didn't attend my wedding.

Question 2. Yes. Duh. Most important day in most people's lives, of course they want their parents there to share in their joy. Sorry, but at some point spouse trumps parents.

[NewCliche21]

I didn't say they were doing to intentionally hurt their parents. But the anguish is there nonetheless. It would be no different than finding out your daughter was a porn star. I don't think I'd go to Adult Film awards either if she won.

Bottom line is this: somebody asked the question of everybody. We all answered honestly. If you don't like it, that's your prerogative. I don't even know why I have gone to such lengths to convince you since you (speaking in the general sense, not Bliz) obviously are just as closed off to my view as I am to yours.

Good day.

Do you like any group of people? Seriously?

Also, being closed off to intolerance is different from being closed off to a group of people for something that they cannot control and should never be ashamed of. Even if you want to go the porn star route, which is a whole different thread, that vocation is a choice; sexuality is not.

And you honestly want to compare Porn Oscars to marriage? Has your argument gotten that far-fetched? You were doing pretty well up until then.

I think you know its a lot more than just that. But rationalize away.

For reference you were referring to someone saying that being gay is loving who you love.

That is what it is. That's all that there is. Whatever your definition of homosexuality is, if it is other than that, is fundamentally flawed and ruins the basis for any of your viewpoints. It's like basing your math off of the incorrect presumption that 5 + 5 = 12.

[NewCliche21]

Not apples and oranges. A ceremony of SS couple is an affirmation of the sinful behavior with the intent to continue in the sin. The others are not.

So if two guys get married but never have sex, then is that cool?

[Zguy28]

Do you like any group of people? Seriously?

Also, being closed off to intolerance is different from being closed off to a group of people for something that they cannot control and should never be ashamed of. Even if you want to go the porn star route, which is a whole different thread, that vocation is a choice; sexuality is not.

Who ever said I was closed off to people? I said I have a very good working relationship with a gay man at work. I also have been friends with several gay people in the last 10 years. We are still friends. They understand my views, what's your problem?

And you honestly want to compare Porn Oscars to marriage? Has your argument gotten that far-fetched? You were doing pretty well up until then.

A sin is a sin. Doesn't matter if you get paid for it in money or whatever. Ultimately the wages of sin is death. The eternal kind.

For reference you were referring to someone saying that being gay is loving who you love.

That is what it is. That's all that there is. Whatever your definition of homosexuality is, if it is other than that, is fundamentally flawed and ruins the basis for any of your viewpoints. It's like basing your math off of the incorrect presumption that 5 + 5 = 12.

My definition squares up with the Dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homosexuality

ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty

   /ˌhoʊməˌsɛkʃuˈælɪti, or, especially Brit., -ˌsɛksyu-/ Show Spelled[hoh-muh-sek-shoo-al-i-tee, or, especially Brit., -seks-yoo-] Show IPA

–noun sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.

By the way, if you were truly tolerant (by your obvious definition of the word), you wouldn't tell people they are wrong. Ever. But you do. You use phrases like "fundamentally flawed" and such because you are intolerant also. Don't be ashamed that you are, just don't be all sanctimoneous about it.

[Spanky22]

There are times that I dislike calling myself a Christian because of being lumped in with people with extreme views who hold their Christianity out in front of them like they are the example of how Christ wanted us to treat our fellow man. This is one of them.

[Ryman of the North]

First I agree with Zoony. I wish the government would stay the hell out of this whole religious debate in regards to marriage and simply recognize legal, civil union between a man and a woman, a woman and a woman, or a man and a man.

I think the religious aspect should be left up to individual churches. They don't want to condone the union on religious grounds, no problemo.

So, was Abraham, the father of many nations, and thought to be the father of multiple religions, making a mockery of something that is sacred to God by having a wife, Sarai, but impregnanting her handmaiden? If not, why not? If so, what does that make us as believers in Christianity, the religion he happens to be viewed as the "father" of? Not only do we support a complete sinner, but we practice a religion he was essentially the father of...on a daily basis.

I very much disagree with this. First of all, to attend something to support a loved one is not tactic approval of something. Sometimes people attend things to show someone they love them and care about them as a human being, not because they are making a statement that they condone something.

I'll use an example that has always stuck with me. I'm Seventh-day Adventist. Raised SDA, baptized SDA, etc. The pastor of our church throughout my childhood and early teens is someone I think is the best example I've seen of someone who is Christ-like and treats everyone with such compassion and respect, more than any other pastor I've known. My family has always been very close with this Pastor Sam and his family as the kids in both families grew up together and were friends.

Anywho, being a Seventh-day Adventist, we are supposed to observe the Sabbath from sundown Friday evening to sundown Saturday evening. There are varying interpretations of "proper" observance, but most consider observance as not involving oneself in secular activities during Sabbath hours (sports competitions, shopping, eating out at restaurants, watching secular TV, listening to secular music, and so on). My family happens to be pretty liberal in this regard, while we went to church and everything, they didn't make us strictly adhere to every rule for fear of overbearing regulations and legalities making us completely reject any religion. Sorry, that's the background.

So, as a pastor of an SDA church, as someone who is supposed to be setting an example regarding the "rules" of the church, it's pretty faux pas to attend or be seen supporting something secular on the Sabbath. Well, his youngest son was on the amateur golf circuit and had a tournament on Saturday. My brother couldn't caddy for him for some reason, so guess who did? Pastor Sam did. Not because he agreed with his son being involved in competition on the Sabbath, not because he wouldn't advise against it, not because he didn't recognize that in our denomination it's considered sinful to not respect the sabbath as God commanded...but because he wanted to show his son that he loved him unconditionally, no matter what he did.

I'm sorry for the long-winded story, but what Pastor Sam did that day, quietly caddying for his son and showing his love and support for him, made an impression on all of my family who saw it and the rest of us who heard about it. Ultimately, I think it broke down a lot of preexisting barriers between him and his son and his son started viewing his father in a different light, not one full of holier than thou judgement, but someone who was compassionate and wanted to show his love for him regardless of the circumstances.

Personally, I think that is very similar to how Jesus lived His life on this earth. He had love and compassion for everyone, no matter what they were involved in, and he certainly DID take part in things considered sins of his time (working on Sabbath healing people, walking more than so and so paces on Sabbath, hanging out with the "lowest of the low" sinners, etc.)

So yes, I think one can go to a ceremony to show a loved one that they care for them without "compromising" their own religious beliefs. Just my personal opinion though...

I don't always agree with you, but that post is exactly what I think. the Government should stay out of religion entirely.

The QB for my football team is SDA and while his parents didnt like that many of his games were on Saturdays they attended as many as possible, and now his son plays and he attends as many games as possible. I never really realised how strict the rules were for SDA until hanging out with him on a non game saturday once.

[Mordac]

I do and I have.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Simple question, with a few complex answers expected.

Would you attend a gay marriage/civil union ceremony if a friend, or your significant other's friend were getting married; and would you support them as you would any hetero couple?

Please be patient. The poll will take a few minutes to post. Thanks!

Yes, I will absolutely do that buddy. Whatever path you and Reic choose to embark on together, I will be there to wish you well with my hat on.

[stevenaa]

So if two guys get married but never have sex, then is that cool?

No. But it removes some of the ick factor.