AP: Massacre in Congo

[nonniey]

Here is a story that shows pure evil at work.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20100328/D9EN9Q0O0.html

DAKAR, Senegal (AP) - At least 321 civilians were killed in a previously unreported massacre in Congo in late 2009, while villagers that escaped their rebel captors were sent back with their lips and ears cut off as a warning to others of what would happen if they tried to talk, according to an investigation by a human rights group.

New York-based Human Rights Watch said in its report released Saturday that at least 250 more people were abducted by the Lord's Resistance Army rebels during the attack in the Makombo area of northeastern Congo, including no less than 80 children.

Human Rights Watch's senior Africa researcher, Anneke Van Woudenberg, called the massacre "one of the worst ever committed by the LRA in its bloody 23-year history."

Yet the killing spree, which occurred from Dec. 14 to 17 in at least 10 villages, had gone unreported for months.

The majority of those killed were men who were tied up, some bound to trees, before being hacked to death with machetes or having their skulls crushed with axes. A 3-year-old girl was burnt to death, according to the report.

The rebels then abducted many of the children and women, who were forced to march to a town over 60 miles (96 kilometers) away. Those that walked too slowly were executed and villagers told the rights group that they found bodies all along the trail from Makombo to the town of Tapili in northern Congo.

The Lord's Resistance Army is considered one of Africa's most brutal rebel armies, and its leaders are the subject of an International Criminal Court arrest warrant. Originally based in Uganda, the rebels were pushed into the area straddling the northern Congolese border with Central African Republic. The 2009 massacre is only the most recent of a pattern of atrocities.

Exactly a year earlier, after the governments of the region attacked an LRA position, the rebels retaliated by killing at least 865 civilians during the Christmas 2008 holiday season, according to Human Rights Watch.

The attack three months ago was especially horrific. Children abducted by the rebels were forced to execute other children who had disobeyed the rebels. In several instances documented by the rights group, the children were ordered to form a circle around their victim and take turns hitting the child on the head with a heavy object until the child died.

Adults were mutilated and sent back to their villages to act as a visual warning to those that might have considered alerting authorities.

In one instance the rebels cut off the lips and an ear of six victims who were sent back "with a chilling warning to others that anyone who heard or spoke about the LRA would be similarly punished," says the report.

[Larry]

I really wish we could afford to be The World's Policeman.

[ardowling]

I really wish we could afford to be The World's Policeman.

No **** this is the kind of incident that I wish we could let loose the fury of our military, I'm not sure you would like it though.

[haithman]

Images of their doing's on Google. Disgusting. Wish we could send in a few SEAL teams and wipe em off the Earth forever.

[Burgundy Burner]

The Tutsis and Hutus have been going at it forever - it won't end until one wipes out the other. Crazy - and sad.

[Jumbo]

I saw the headline, and also thought back to the horrors under Leopold II and the European exploitation...it's like another part of the globe that seems cursed in many ways... very very sad and disturbing...I wish there was something like a U.N. that could be a genuine, high-integrity, multi-national-force available to affect some degree and some reasonable form of law and order in such lawless places...fuzzy emotionalism, I know..

[Ryman of the North]

There is much that happens in Africa that goes unnoticed, uncommented on and unchallenged. Not everything can be so easily laid at the feet of colonialism.

This thread calls to mind my point in an earlier thread about Israel and the Un, while the Un spends time condemning Israel why the hell isnt anything tangible done in places like Africa?

I have a very good friend who served in Africa in the early nineties and he has told me that the worst part of it all is how they treat children, more as a resource for war than as actual children. I personally would love to see us go in, hammer the hell out of these scumbags and put a decent person in power, the problem would be finding one.

[jpyaks3]

There is much that happens in Africa that goes unnoticed, uncommented on and unchallenged. Not everything can be so easily laid at the feet of colonialism.

This thread calls to mind my point in an earlier thread about Israel and the Un, while the Un spends time condemning Israel why the hell isnt anything tangible done in places like Africa?

I have a very good friend who served in Africa in the early nineties and he has told me that the worst part of it all is how they treat children, more as a resource for war than as actual children. I personally would love to see us go in, hammer the hell out of these scumbags and put a decent person in power, the problem would be finding one.

The truth is a lot of these conflicts can be traced to colonialism.

Arguably the most brutal and well known attack of this caliber the Rwandan genocide can be pretty clearly traced back to Belgian rule. That conflict created other conflicts in its neighbors with the refugee problems which set off a pretty nasty chain of events.

Another quick and easy example is the fighting and brutal attacks in Mozambique where nearly a million people died and 5 million were displaced. A lot of the rebel groups support came from South Africa and the United States who wanted a strong South Africa to combat perceived Soviet expansion in the region. The United States funded RENAMO who didn't even attempt to govern they just committed terror campaigns against the FRELIMO forces. Without United States and South African support RENAMO would have likely withered away as it didn't really have a true following in Mozambique.

The United Nations only has the power of its member states, its very difficult to get the Security Counsel to call something a genocide because once you call it that it forces action. The United Nations should do more in Africa but its a very difficult situation with several different conflicts erupting across Africa at any time. Its tough to pick and choose which ones you can intervene and what you can do once you intervene.

[Capt Rich Fla]

They don't want a bunch of war mongers like the US in there.

See, they all hate us till someone loses an eye and then it's "Hey US, what are you going to do about this?"

[Ryman of the North]

saying it all dates back to colonialism is a cop out IMHO, at this point they can either smarten up and get their crap together or they can keep killing eachother. how much do you want to bet they choose the latter?

The Un is a joke, while this is going on (and worse) they concentrate on impugning Israel. hell UN peacekeepers have been slaughtered by these asshats on more than one occasion, what needs to happen is simple, send in some serious firepower and hammer them out. the problem is that there is no one to put into power, they are all asshats.

[jpyaks3]

saying it all dates back to colonialism is a cop out IMHO, at this point they can either smarten up and get their crap together or they can keep killing eachother. how much do you want to bet they choose the latter?

The Un is a joke, while this is going on (and worse) they concentrate on impugning Israel. hell UN peacekeepers have been slaughtered by these asshats on more than one occasion, what needs to happen is simple, send in some serious firepower and hammer them out. the problem is that there is no one to put into power, they are all asshats.

Lets see some of the things that colonialism has left Africa

Uganda- Britain supported General Idi Amin in a coup against the government. Amin went on to kill between 100,000 and 500,000 of his own countrymen. He came to power due to colonial support. Uganda has been struggling with civil war ever since his coup.

Angola- Gerald Ford's administration provided aid to guerrilla groups in the Angolan civil war after Portugal left. We provided support through the 1980's to a group that was slaughtering civilians in a war where nearly 500,000 people died.

Rwanda- I don't think anyone will argue that Belgian rule didn't play an enormous role in this conflict and provided the roots for the ethnic cleansing.

Mozambique- I mentioned it in my other post but we supported a group that aimlessly slaughtered civilians in an extremely deadly civil war.

Burundi- Civil war can be lumped in with the Rwandan genocide as refugees from Rwanda spread the war and created a whole host of problems that erupted in a civil war where approximately 300,000 people were killed.

Chad- French presence played a large roll in the early civil wars. These civil wars sparked a series of civil wars that played out over the past few decades.

Problems in both the Republic of the Congo and the Democratic Republic of the Congo can be traced back to Belgian rule in the same way that the Rwandan conflict can. Hundreds of thousands of deaths can be attributed to these civil wars.

Sao Tome and Principe- Batepá massacre where Portuguese settlers massacred the native population.

I can keep going country by country and most of these conflicts were direct results of colonial influence. Most colonial powers ruled in a manner that pitted the population against itself and set up for massive retaliation and retribution as soon as the colonial power left. They left little to no infrastructure and a culture of ethnic problems and distrust. Africa is ****ed up largely because of the colonial powers.

UN observes have been killed on multiple occasions by Israeli munitions. So you simultaneously want to overthrow quite a few African governments and install puppet dictators? The United Nations has tried to send peacekeepers to parts of Africa but its incredibly difficult to be successful in the situations they are put in.

[Ryman of the North]

did you notice a common theme in all of your examples? all of them happened after the colonisers LEFT and left thise retards to run their own show. One could easily argue that had the euros never left we would not see these sorts of things.

The Un is a joke and frankly the number of peacekeepers killed in africa is not remotely on the same scale as those who have died at the hands of Israel, are you joking?

[Perky72]

There is much that happens in Africa that goes unnoticed, uncommented on and unchallenged. Not everything can be so easily laid at the feet of colonialism.

This thread calls to mind my point in an earlier thread about Israel and the Un, while the Un spends time condemning Israel why the hell isnt anything tangible done in places like Africa?

I have a very good friend who served in Africa in the early nineties and he has told me that the worst part of it all is how they treat children, more as a resource for war than as actual children. I personally would love to see us go in, hammer the hell out of these scumbags and put a decent person in power, the problem would be finding one.

I agree with all of this. For all of the problems emanating from Israel-Palestine, in comparison to Africa it's nowhere near as physically brutal and violent, even if including all countries whose politics ebb and flow according to how much they hate/love Israel. The Israeli occupation has by large mostly a political effect, the human effect is not THAT bad. The solutions to each are also much different--the Congo and other african states that give to genocide need to be physically invaded/occupied by "peacekeepers with the right to shoot and claim military territory" and the murderous bands disarmed, government troops too if they're involved. Then a political and social recovery can start, but the worst will be over. Compare to Israel and the solution is just to keep talking and talking about small initiatives and concessions ad nauseum for decades. Israel-OT is a lousy situation but it's not imminent in the same way.

I'm a UN supporter in the ideal but in practice they drop the ball too often. Some is due to members of the security council, but the organization itself is too timid about situations like the Congo and Burma.

As far as unilateral intervention, I'd support a US occupation of such states where genocide is currently occurring, even if it broke international law. Maybe a way to look at interventionism is "what are the one or two most horribly inhumane states in the world?" I don't know how someone could really rank Israel-OT (or previously, Iraq) above a half dozen African states, plus Burma, plus North Korea. Then you review the list and decide whether intervention is necessary. It's too bad realpolitik and yes, colonialesque interests are still so much a part of why/when 1st world countries intervene. The primary reason should be to reduce human suffering, with the worst suffering dealt with first (assuming intervention at all is a good idea and there are some truly awful situations).

[Fergasun]

Did anyone see HBO's movie "Reporter" following Nicholas Kristof into the Congo with two students? I did a couple weeks ago; and was wondering if indeed he went to the Congo... yup. However he didn't meet with the warlord of the army that perpetrated this crime.

If there was a movie trailer about African genocide, I think it would start... "In a world beyond our mind..."

[Ryman of the North]

For all the blame of colonialism the fact remains that this is africans killing africans, the violence is far beyond anything that we can comprehend and its staggering. anyone who could force children to circle and kill other children needs to be expunged period.

[Thiebear]

I thought the United Nations (France) was in charge there?

[Special K]

Terrible story. All too common in Africa. Stuff like this happens all the time but never gets reported.

I think people who look at this as "retards" killing each other or think these issues can be fixed through simple military intervention are woefully ignorant of the cultural mindset that pervades much of the continent.

I really wish we could get more attention from the international community in Africa...but I have resigned myself to putting it into the "wishful thinking" category. Unless, we start seeing further proliferation of Al-Quaeda cells into northern Africa and on down...then we might get more of the developed world's attention to the human atrocities that are committed practically everyday throughout different countries on this continent.

It truly is heartbreaking to see some of this crap up close (a tiny bit in Madagascar, but not even close to Africa mainland) and hear stories from people who's families have lived through this. It's not some easy fix where we can just replace a bad dictator or send in special ops teams to clear the "bad guys" out. It's so bassackwards in many of these countries, people in the developed world can't even begin to comprehend the scope of the problem. The infrastructure is non-existent. Coups, kidnappings, and assasinations are normal avenues of government function. It's an entire cultural mindset that is difficult for those of us who've grown up in the developed world to even fathom.

It really is tragic and I wish more attention could be focused on this continent because it's so beautiful and it has so much to offer. And for the most part, the regular, everyday people are good human beings.

[jnhay]

Terrible story. All too common in Africa. Stuff like this happens all the time but never gets reported.

I think people who look at this as "retards" killing each other or think these issues can be fixed through simple military intervention are woefully ignorant of the cultural mindset that pervades much of the continent.

I consider any mindset that ends with killing innocent people as evil and stupid.

[Special K]

I consider any mindset that ends with killing innocent people as evil and stupid.

I would certainly agree that it is evil.

And yes, it is pointless to us. But when people like us, people who have lived in a stable, well-adjusted (relatively), safe, environment with access to pretty much anything we can imagine and want, just write these atrocities off without trying to understand the underpinnings of the cultural mindset and just say "well they're retards"...well, I think that is extremely ignorant.

I also think that easy dismissals like that always come back to bite us in the butt...

[Smoot Point Really]

It's the wild west*1000 out there... The UN should care at least... And so should our Government.

[rincewind]

did you notice a common theme in all of your examples? all of them happened after the colonisers LEFT and left thise retards to run their own show. One could easily argue that had the euros never left we would not see these sorts of things.

The Un is a joke and frankly the number of peacekeepers killed in africa is not remotely on the same scale as those who have died at the hands of Israel, are you joking?

Wow. Colonists force there way in, completely destablize an entire continent, and then basically sneak out the back door leaving little to no organization (or in some cases setting up brutal dictators) and you blame it on the 'retards' they left behind. Wow. And then you basically support further colonization. You sound like an American.

[Special K]

Wow. Colonists force there way in, completely destablize an entire continent, and then basically sneak out the back door leaving little to no organization (or in some cases setting up brutal dictators) and you blame it on the 'retards' they left behind. Wow. And then you basically support further colonization. You sound like an American.

Sorry, had to laugh at that...it's pretty funny, and quite true.

It really is amazing to see how so many people refuse to recognize colonialism's impact on African nations. Further, people refuse to recognize that many of these dictators, effed up governments, etc. are SUPPORTED by many first world nations that initially colonized them.

I'll just give an example of Madagascar since I've become much more familiar with the political situation since coming here in January. The current government came to power through a coup (people might have heard stories in the news about the widespread violence - although the bulk of the violence was in the capital, Antananarivo - about this time last year when the coup took place).

EVERY Malagasy person I've talked to about the political situation here either does NOT support the current "president" or acknowledges he is "president, no election" (direct broken English quote from several commune maires and village chief I've talked to over here). The U.S. has done the right thing and pulled all trade agreements and all aid (except humanitarian) from the country until its leaders hole a fair election (which is doubtful that it will ever happen, it is likely going to take violent force to overthrow the current regime).

In the meantime, the country is quite literally going to ****, as if it weren't bad enough off in the first place. Factories have shut down, people are losing jobs, road, energy, water and all other infrastructures are going to crap because the government is not attending to those issues at all. The safety situation is getting worse here too as more and more people are turning to violence (many times against foreigners) to obtain means to survive.

Well, guess who is the strongest backer of the current "president?" France. Yes France, the former colonizer of Madagascar. While other countries are pulling out diplomatic aid from the country, the French government is loving this guy because he has promised them many incentives in return for their support (as a sidenote, there are rumors of international support for this last coup...wonder who that would have been?).

The whole reason I give this example is to maybe give a little better picture of the situation in MANY of these African countries to people who think it's just "retards" killing each other over here. A lot of these governments don't come to power without the support (most of the time it's shadow support) from the governments of other nations. Some of these dictators use brutal means by which to remain in power; many times promoting an atmosphere of mistrust and hate (based on propaganda and other horrible misinformation) between different ethnicities and/or religions of the country. There is a very long history of this not only in Africa, but throughout the world. You add that to the fact that most of the people reside in abject poverty, suffer through natural disasters like widespread famine, are unable to eat enough and suffer from malnutrition, have been displaced by violence, and are dying of communicable diseases by the millions, then YEAH, that's going to boil over and you are going to see a ton of violence.

It's not an "easy fix" over here. Many time I question whether it can ever be fixed. But it sure isn't going to get fixed or even help the situation when you have people who have probably never stepped foot in this part of the world just dismissing African people as "retards" who just kill each other without even trying to understand the multitude of variables that contribute to this massive cluster.

[Perky72]

Terrible story. All too common in Africa. Stuff like this happens all the time but never gets reported.

Yep. I don't think the media should be political activists (in general, those with that role are fine), but the situations are so barbaric it definitely needs a lot more face time in the "international humanitarian concerns" spots.

I think people who look at this as "retards" killing each other or think these issues can be fixed through simple military intervention are woefully ignorant of the cultural mindset that pervades much of the continent.

They're not retards, and the colonial influence in exacerbating things that still continue is valid, as is the new colonialism based on who 1st world countries decide to invade, for material reasons, and who we don't.

It'll take decades to fix ethnic tensions and anarchic politics, and it might not stick. My support for intervention is because an occupied state with peacekeepers that still hasn't changed its' genocidal tendencies, but isn't currently genociding, is acceptable to me. One killing and raping tens of thousands a month isn't. That is what I want fixed, the current violence. Fixing the societies long-term is a far second, though it should certainly also receive a massive commitment.

[wysknz1]

No **** this is the kind of incident that I wish we could let loose the fury of our military, I'm not sure you would like it though.

Do they have oil?

[NavyDave]

Back in the 90's my unit did ops in Guinea Bisau, Liberia and Sierra Leone and there wasn't really anything positive to say about those deployments.

Yeah places like outside of the Holiday Inn and the Olympic Stadium in Sarajevo still had human remains covered by a thin layer of hardened mud with live mines in the vicinity but it didn't compare to the overwhelming smell of death and sickness or the photos the previous intel let us see in those African hell holes.