Washington Post- Bugel: Shanahan's 'going to build the offensive line' (Merged)

[michiskin]

Funny how Buges refers to him as Shanny. Pehaps he's been reading too much ES. :hysterical:

Ya, cuz no one ever refered to him as Shanny before. Jeebus.

[Mad Mike]

Before everyone get's too excited and reads too much into this, he didn't say anything about drafting O line with the fourth pick. :hysterical:

I don't think there was ever a question that Shanahan will rebuild the line. The question is how. I don't think any of us will know until draft day (the way it should be).

I think the thing to take from this is not to freak if we don't use that #4 pick on an OT. But that's just my opinion.

[cyfar]

Yes.

Which means it doesn't have to be with the 4th pick necessarily

Awesome use of the Fallout pic in your sig. I love it!

[Going Commando]

in all fairness to bugel, we didnt really give him much to work with did we? you cant make a nice steak dinner with canned spam.

rinehart is the only real disappointment for bugel, its a shame a 3rd round G struggled that much. i wonder if rinehart will do better in shannys new blocking scheme, but lets be honest, they didnt give bugel a lot to work with.

I still have hope for Rinehart. He moves pretty well being a former tackle and he was starting to improve before that terrible injury. If he can recover from getting hurt, I think he could make great strides in this new scheme. He never struck me as the sharpest guy though. Blocking assignments in a zone scheme can be tricky, he'll have to adjust quickly or he won't stick around.

[bedlamVR]

spare the bradford is injury prone or that he wont stay upright. he probably wont even play much this year anyways so stop acting like hes going to be playing behind mike williams and edwin williams. this is the future were talking about, not in 6 months.

and theres plenty of tackles that are projected to go first round. ive been told at least 6 are 1st round picks, and with the defensive depth in this draft its completely possible that if we forgo a QB, we could snag two OTs in the first round.

i still think shanny will pull the trigger on a QB. he had success with cutler and he's still gonna fix the oline regardless. and remember, this will take a year or so, so there is no quick fix, even if we draft a million lineman (which isnt going to happen ever).

Shanahan lost his job because of Cutler . More than one source said when the locker room leaders went down Cutler and his Childish behavior drove division to a new level only surpassed by what happened with Cutler and McDaniels .

Cutler defiantly cost the Broncos a chance at the playoffs in 06 . With Plumber the Broncos were 7-4 . With Cutler at the helm they finished 9-7 .

Bradford and Clausen are not Cutler ... Bradford is a real injury worry but if you are going to sit your QB for 12 months behind ...Chad freaking Pennington - thats is your player of the moment ? (lol...sorry Chad Pennington a guy who has played 2 full seasons IN HIS CAREER) then isn't paying top 5 money and a top 5 pick that could be an impact player at a bunch of different possitions dumb .

If you are going to groom the QB of the future then why not take a second tier QB or even I dunno wait until we have more the 5 picks in a draft to reach for a QB in what is a weak QB class in the first round . When teams are looking to groom a guy for the future they normally have someone in place already - Rodgers- Farve, Rivers- Brees, Brady - Bledsoe, Kolb- McNabb, Kitna-Palmer ...

My first choice would be trade down but if there are no decent deals ( even one to pick up a pick in 2011) then I would take Okung, Suh or Berry over Bradford or Clausen .

[Rutliff381]

Yes, great move. I wonder how long fragile Brad stays upright? Two, maybe 3 games before going on IR with another shoulder injury? Yes, that would help alot. I havent seen 1 QB in this draft that should be a top 10 pick, much less a top 5 pick. There is NOT a Manning in this class and when you guys talk about reaching for a OLman, the same should be said about QB's that in normal years are mid 1st round picks.

I'm not sure who's telling you there are alot of LT's in the draft (I havent seen alot of depth there) but LT is not the only position we are in desperate need of on the OL. We need 2 tackles, a guard and a center. What there isnt however is a QB that looks like a top 5 pick in most drafts. The guys avaliable feel like blowing a #4 pick on Brady Quinn. And that makes me feel yucky.

100% agreed...I wish Bradford/Clausen get taken 1-2 so we don't have the option on either, but that won't happen. Sick of the Bradford talk. Another qb from a spread system that benefited from his great o-line. I think we know how these heisman winning qb's have fared in the NFL. Everyone's so desperate to get a new QB in here asap they wanna use the #4 pick on one just b/c they are the top-rated qb this year. I'm not saying bradford will fail b/c he's a heisman winner, I'm just not willing to use the #4 pick on him. Just my opinion.

[MadMonkey]

Funny how Buges refers to him as Shanny. Pehaps he's been reading too much ES. :hysterical:

Actually they've known one another for more than 15yrs going back to when Shanahan was with the 49ers.

[Morneblade]

spare the bradford is injury prone or that he wont stay upright. he probably wont even play much this year anyways so stop acting like hes going to be playing behind mike williams and edwin williams. this is the future were talking about, not in 6 months.

and theres plenty of tackles that are projected to go first round. ive been told at least 6 are 1st round picks, and with the defensive depth in this draft its completely possible that if we forgo a QB, we could snag two OTs in the first round.

i still think shanny will pull the trigger on a QB. he had success with cutler and he's still gonna fix the oline regardless. and remember, this will take a year or so, so there is no quick fix, even if we draft a million lineman (which isnt going to happen ever).

No, I will not "spare" you. Also remember that Bill Allen is not keen on taking players with injury concerns. And while I am not as a big proponent of armstrength as some people, you need to have some. I dont if he has enough at this level. Add that with the injury, do you REALLY want to spend the #4 pick in the draft on that? Without the injury he's maybe a mid first rounder, early second rounder in years with stud prospects. The other prospect is Clausen, who doesnt impress me either.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

No, I will not "spare" you. Also remember that Bill Allen is not keen on taking players with injury concerns. And while I am not as a big proponent of armstrength as some people, you need to have some. I dont if he has enough at this level. Add that with the injury, do you REALLY want to spend the #4 pick in the draft on that? Without the injury he's maybe a mid first rounder, early second rounder in years with stud prospects. The other prospect is Clausen, who doesnt impress me either.

im glad bill allen wont be picking players for us.

and his surgery was the same brees had who is fine, and his injury is supposedly a non issue at this point. if were gonna take a shot on a QB, it should be him or claussen.

[bedlamVR]

im glad bill allen wont be picking players for us.

and his surgery was the same brees had who is fine, and his injury is supposedly a non issue at this point. if were gonna take a shot on a QB, it should be him or claussen.

Err I think I will wait for the Combine to make any assumptions about that . Th

Brees never had surgury on the same shoulder twice in the same season . He has also never missed significant time due to concussion (as Bradford has) . Bradford is coming into the draft having played very sparingly at collage since 2008 . Also when Brees got injured he was coming off a break out season (IN THE NFL) and was injured on the field after a late hit from John Lynch .

Going back onto the subject of the thread . How would people think about taking Bruce "Groovey" Campbell at No.4 ? I have similar bad feelings about his injury history .

The reason I ask is there are only really 2 guys I can see right now who might be good value on the OL at No.4 and that is Okung and Campbell.

[gorebd82]

Before everyone get's too excited and reads too much into this, he didn't say anything about drafting O line with the fourth pick. :hysterical:

I don't think there was ever a question that Shanahan will rebuild the line. The question is how. I don't think any of us will know until draft day (the way it should be).

I think the thing to take from this is not to freak if we don't use that #4 pick on an OT. But that's just my opinion.

By the way, to piggyback on your thoughts, I seriously doubt Shanny spends the #4 pick on an offensive lineman. He takes a QB or trades back. There is not much of a gap between Okung, Davis, Bulaga and Campbell. There may be some difference, but not enough to pass the opportunity to pick up a second rounder. Thank goodness that one of Bruce Allen's strengths was telling Gruden, "don't grab this player here because this guy is available later and can do the same thing."

Grabbing a tackle at #4 would be the worst move our franchise could possibly make.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Err I think I will wait for the Combine to make any assumptions about that . Th

Brees never had surgury on the same shoulder twice in the same season . He has also never missed significant time due to concussion (as Bradford has) . Bradford is coming into the draft having played very sparingly at collage since 2008 . Also when Brees got injured he was coming off a break out season (IN THE NFL) and was injured on the field after a late hit from John Lynch .

Going back onto the subject of the thread . How would people think about taking Bruce "Groovey" Campbell at No.4 ? I have similar bad feelings about his injury history .

The reason I ask is there are only really 2 guys I can see right now who might be good value on the OL at No.4 and that is Okung and Campbell.

i really am astounded by the injury prone comments.

the guy starts every game in 2007, kills it.

the guy starts every game in 2008, kills it.

the guy injures his shoulder in game one in 2009, he opts for no surgery and they rush him back after a few games, plays one game, and gets piledrived re-aggravating the shoulder. then has the surgery to fix it.

how is that injury prone? one injury, that was never fixed because they wanted him back on the field. bad decision by his coaches and him, but he fixed it. and if hes not ready, we'll blatantly know, the redskins doctor is his surgeon.

[gorebd82]

i really am astounded by the injury prone comments.

the guy starts every game in 2007, kills it.

the guy starts every game in 2008, kills it.

the guy injures his shoulder in game one in 2009, he opts for no surgery and they rush him back after a few games, plays one game, and gets piledrived re-aggravating the shoulder. then has the surgery to fix it.

how is that injury prone? one injury, that was never fixed because they wanted him back on the field. bad decision by his coaches and him, but he fixed it. and if hes not ready, we'll blatantly know, the redskins doctor is his surgeon.

People don't seem to get it. It's such a myth when it comes to his durability. I've been trying to bring up the point that Oklahoma has been HORRIBLE when it comes to managing injuries for their players. Look at Malcolm Kelly and Adrian Peterson. Kelly even said that Oklahoma didn't guide him well on how to handle his injury. They just want players back on the field.

[bedlamVR]

i really am astounded by the injury prone comments.

the guy starts every game in 2007, kills it.

the guy starts every game in 2008, kills it.

the guy injures his shoulder in game one in 2009, he opts for no surgery and they rush him back after a few games, plays one game, and gets piledrived re-aggravating the shoulder. then has the surgery to fix it.

how is that injury prone? one injury, that was never fixed because they wanted him back on the field. bad decision by his coaches and him, but he fixed it. and if hes not ready, we'll blatantly know, the redskins doctor is his surgeon.

Also in 2007

"In the November 17, 2007 game against Texas Tech, Bradford suffered a concussion of unknown severity. He was removed from the game and replaced by back-up quarterback Joey Halzle. "

And I was wrong about the two surgeries but if it was your money would you spend $50,000,000 and possibly a franchise OLT or Ed Reed like safety or a cannot miss DT for this guy ?

You keep ignoring the fact that he has injured the same shoulder (his throwing shoulder) twice - and yes one was a re-agrivation of the same injury but that in a way is worse because he is injuring an already stressed body part .

It is also troubling that Bradford was diagnosed with the most severe degree of AC sprain . In a way it is often better to break a bone than suffer a sprain like this . Bones heal, ligaments don't . This type of sprain may heal, but will most likely be a problem again later in life and the joint will be significiantly weakened

Also i do not discount 2007 or 2008 . I think had he come out last year he would have quite correctly been the No.1. overall . The problem is no-one has seen what he can do post injury .

For that reason taking him at No.4. is far too risky . If he was still there at 36 I would snaffle him up to sit for 12 months or if we traded back into the first round at about the 23-31st slot then I would take him in the late first (possibly- but he looks frail) but only if there was no-one that could help the franchise more .

[mistertim]

I think saying that a season ending injury to Bradford's throwing shoulder is a "non-factor" is a bit much, BLC. Especially when he might not even be completely rehabbed by the combine, etc. This is a #4 overall pick we're talking about and a TON of money we'd be throwing at the guy. Yes, Brees had an injury on his throwing shoulder as well. So? Does that suddenly mean that Bradford will be ok because Brees was? As far as "injury-prone" I don't think it necessarily means he is injury prone, but the guy had a dominant OL and played mostly out of the gun so he rarely got much heat. I think it is a legitimate concern as to how he would fare not only being under center more, but also with the very large increase in pressure he would be getting from opposing defenses. I'm not a fan of either (I don't think Bradford or Clausen are worth top 5 picks at all), but at least Clausen knows what it is like to play behind a crappy OL.

[MumboSauce]

It worked for the Ravens and Jets!.. Just get a rookie (or second year guy) and let him complete 6 or 8 passes and wala...You win a playoff game!

maybe that was going along with the joke and sarcasm but both of those teams drafted Oline the years following up to taking a rookie QB.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Also in 2007

"In the November 17, 2007 game against Texas Tech, Bradford suffered a concussion of unknown severity. He was removed from the game and replaced by back-up quarterback Joey Halzle. "

And I was wrong about the two surgeries but if it was your money would you spend $50,000,000 and possibly a franchise OLT or Ed Reed like safety or a cannot miss DT for this guy ?

You keep ignoring the fact that he has injured the same shoulder (his throwing shoulder) twice - and yes one was a re-agrivation of the same injury but that in a way is worse because he is injuring an already stressed body part .

It is also troubling that Bradford was diagnosed with the most severe degree of AC sprain . In a way it is often better to break a bone than suffer a sprain like this . Bones heal, ligaments don't . This type of sprain may heal, but will most likely be a problem again later in life and the joint will be significiantly weakened

Also i do not discount 2007 or 2008 . I think had he come out last year he would have quite correctly been the No.1. overall . The problem is no-one has seen what he can do post injury .

For that reason taking him at No.4. is far too risky . If he was still there at 36 I would snaffle him up to sit for 12 months or if we traded back into the first round at about the 23-31st slot then I would take him in the late first (possibly- but he looks frail) but only if there was no-one that could help the franchise more .

yeah, that concussion was so bad that he didnt miss a game. if it had been that terrible, he'd have not played.

im not ignoring anything. its pretty blatant what happened. he sprained his shoulder. he should have gotten surgery, but instead his coaching staff wanted him back to compete for a championship, so they said "he doesnt need surgery". then he plays one more game (probably still feeling it in that shoulder), and then the next game he gets sacked and driven into the already injured and never properly healed shoulder. now its so bad that he HAS to have surgery, when he should have had surgery to begin with.

if the injury is really a big concern, we'll all know about it, and shanahan surely will, as again, we share the same surgeon.

taking any player at 4 is risky, there are no locks in this league as much as youd like there to be. stop claiming that berry, suh, and okung are cant miss. thats nonsense.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I think saying that a season ending injury to Bradford's throwing shoulder is a "non-factor" is a bit much, BLC. Especially when he might not even be completely rehabbed by the combine, etc. This is a #4 overall pick we're talking about and a TON of money we'd be throwing at the guy. Yes, Brees had an injury on his throwing shoulder as well. So? Does that suddenly mean that Bradford will be ok because Brees was? As far as "injury-prone" I don't think it necessarily means he is injury prone, but the guy had a dominant OL and played mostly out of the gun so he rarely got much heat. I think it is a legitimate concern as to how he would fare not only being under center more, but also with the very large increase in pressure he would be getting from opposing defenses. I'm not a fan of either (I don't think Bradford or Clausen are worth top 5 picks at all), but at least Clausen knows what it is like to play behind a crappy OL.

i really dont think it is a major issue, and if it is, we'll surely know about it as we share surgeons. if he comes out and has a terrible combine and cant hit passes and looks like trash, ill reconsider my position, but as of now, if were gonna take a QB, id like it to be him. i wont mind about claussen either, but id rather have bradford.

[Morneblade]

im glad bill allen wont be picking players for us.

and his surgery was the same brees had who is fine, and his injury is supposedly a non issue at this point. if were gonna take a shot on a QB, it should be him or claussen.

Considering what else is left in the class I would agree. But I wouldnt even consider either of these guys at #4. It's a garbage class for QB's all the way around.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Considering what else is left in the class I would agree. But I wouldnt even consider either of these guys at #4. It's a garbage class for QB's all the way around.

you never answered my other question: when was the last time you were impressed with a QB coming out of college?

[bedlamVR]

yeah, that concussion was so bad that he didnt miss a game. if it had been that terrible, he'd have not played.

im not ignoring anything. its pretty blatant what happened. he sprained his shoulder. he should have gotten surgery, but instead his coaching staff wanted him back to compete for a championship, so they said "he doesnt need surgery". then he plays one more game (probably still feeling it in that shoulder), and then the next game he gets sacked and driven into the already injured and never properly healed shoulder. now its so bad that he HAS to have surgery, when he should have had surgery to begin with.

if the injury is really a big concern, we'll all know about it, and shanahan surely will, as again, we share the same surgeon.

taking any player at 4 is risky, there are no locks in this league as much as youd like there to be. stop claiming that berry, suh, and okung are cant miss. thats nonsense.

You are absoulty right Suh, Berry or Okung all could bust out . But if they do it will not be because of a huge red warning flag about a twice injured shoulder .

You can never predict the future but lets think here . Eric Berry - highly praised, and with high acclamations an impact player has to now no injury issues . Russell Okung highly thought of, long collage career of starting and excelling nominated for awards - no Injury history of note . Ndamukong Suh - you get the idea, great player, highly thought of, high achiever - No injury issues .

[ArmchairRedskin]

I got bad news for you, Morneblade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/news/story?id=4799490

According to Myerson, the quarterback's rehab should take two to three months. St. Louis and Washington, two teams that pick in the top four, are known to be intrigued by Clausen and will likely interview him at the upcoming NFL combine and ask him to throw sometime before draft day.

Whether you think so or not, Clausen is a top prospect and he's good enough to go #1 to the Rams.

Edit: Just to toss some fun into this thread

After meeting with Dr. James Andrews, McCoy has starting his training regime to prepare himself for the NFL draft.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/18114/mccoy-says-hell-be-ready-for-combine

[pjfootballer]

Was it his throwing or opposite shoulder?

[bedlamVR]

His right - Throwing shoulder

[Rutliff381]

Was it his throwing or opposite shoulder?

Throwing