NewCliche21 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Draft Pick Value#4: 1,800 #13: 1,150 #17: 950 Total: 2,100 Difference of 300 in terms of value. We would likely have to include additional picks or a player to acquire SF's two first... that is unless they truly covet someone at #4. Draft Countdown Not sure if we'd need to trade squat in addition to the number four if San Fran really wants whoever we can get. Market value > Draft chart value 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think we have to be careful here. I really want to address the o-line but we have to be careful we don't force a pick here and draft a tackle that isn't deserving of the spot. Based on this breakdown, I don't see any of the 4 being worth a #4 pick. In a tradedown one of these guys would make sense but I think we might be reaching and forcing a pick by need which in the past has been a mistake (i.e. Carlos Rogers over Merriman & Ware). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think we have to be careful here. I really want to address the o-line but we have to be careful we don't force a pick here and draft a tackle that isn't deserving of the spot. Based on this breakdown, I don't see any of the 4 being worth a #4 pick. In a tradedown one of these guys would make sense but I think we might be reaching and forcing a pick by need which in the past has been a mistake (i.e. Carlos Rogers over Merriman & Ware). I'm sorry but I completely disagree with your assessment that there aren't any tackles worth a #4 pick. Okung absolutely is and the other may be depending on how they work out on the combine. Add that to the fact that the reason we are picking at #4 is by a great margin due to the lack of talent at the OL position. Unless something happens drastically to one of the top prospects, there are going to be at least 2 Left Tackles for us to choose from that are top 5 worthy and if we trade back there are 6 Tackles that are top 25 worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_1972 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'm sorry but I completely disagree with your assessment that there aren't any tackles worth a #4 pick. Okung absolutely is and the other may be depending on how they work out on the combine.Add that to the fact that the reason we are picking at #4 is by a great margin due to the lack of talent at the OL position. Unless something happens drastically to one of the top prospects, there are going to be at least 2 Left Tackles for us to choose from that are top 5 worthy and if we trade back there are 6 Tackles that are top 25 worthy. In the interest of filling as many holes as possible, I am in favor of trading back and grabbing another LT prospect later in the 1st round so we have another pick to address another position along the line. I just worry about putting too many eggs into one basket, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan67 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 If you get a shot at Suh you've got to take him. Trade Big Al if u need to didn't Tampa want him last year. Suh is healthier and I believe, has a bigger desire toplay harder to prove hisself. Take the pick from Tampa and get a lineman or Shanny's 1st round QB. Then draft our lineman in the second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 In the interest of filling as many holes as possible, I am in favor of trading back and grabbing another LT prospect later in the 1st round so we have another pick to address another position along the line. I just worry about putting too many eggs into one basket, so to speak. Totally agree. We absolutely need at minimum 3 new starting lineman IMO, but I wouldn't reach unless Okung proves out to be worth of the 4th pick. The site compares Okung to D'Brick which is not a glowing endorsement IMO. If he tests out better then great, but otherwise trade down 5-10 spots, get an extra pick and draft a lineman at that point in a slot more fitting to their actual place in the draft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icbmayday Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Trade down rack up on some picks and grab a OT in the first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hieverybody Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'm sorry but I completely disagree with your assessment that there aren't any tackles worth a #4 pick. Okung absolutely is and the other may be depending on how they work out on the combine.Add that to the fact that the reason we are picking at #4 is by a great margin due to the lack of talent at the OL position. Unless something happens drastically to one of the top prospects, there are going to be at least 2 Left Tackles for us to choose from that are top 5 worthy and if we trade back there are 6 Tackles that are top 25 worthy. The only players more overrated than Okung are Bradford and Clausen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdarugar Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Totally agree. We absolutely need at minimum 3 new starting lineman IMO, but I wouldn't reach unless Okung proves out to be worth of the 4th pick. The site compares Okung to D'Brick which is not a glowing endorsement IMO. If he tests out better then great, but otherwise trade down 5-10 spots, get an extra pick and draft a lineman at that point in a slot more fitting to their actual place in the draft.... DBrick is pretty damn good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I don't think anyone is arguing we don't need O-Line help but I just think that forcing picks is not the way to rebuild our foundation for long-term success. The FO has made mistakes in the past, but those mistakes won't be corrected by overdrafting a OL or a QB for that matter. What's done is done; build a solid foundation now and take the BPA prospect available unless its a position we're already deep at. If the grades are close, then draft BPA at a position of need.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC386 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 If you are picking someone at #4 you better not miss. I am unsure about so many of the top tier players this year, it seems like the best idea may just be to trade out of it for more chances at less risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Totally agree. We absolutely need at minimum 3 new starting lineman IMO, but I wouldn't reach unless Okung proves out to be worth of the 4th pick. The site compares Okung to D'Brick which is not a glowing endorsement IMO. If he tests out better then great, but otherwise trade down 5-10 spots, get an extra pick and draft a lineman at that point in a slot more fitting to their actual place in the draft.... I have heard that Okung has been compared to Clady not D'Brick. Quanity is not always better then quality though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan190 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Buluga will go top 10. I think he will be the 2nd OT taken, and there is a slight possibility he passes everyone and goes before Okung. The guy is a nasty beast. He was getting man handled against Ohio State. He might fall like Eben Brittion did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan190 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I say take a QB at 4. Get the tackle at 37th overall. I think one of these guys will fall to us Bryan Bulaga* OT Iowa 6' 5" 315lbs Left early Bruce Campbell* OT Maryland 6' 7" 310lbs Injury concerns Charles Brown* OT USC 6' 5" 305lbs Possible size concerns- I'm a big fan tho Trent Williams* inconsistint Probably a RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 6th and 14th is too much to give up for moving up two slots would cost another pick and I think Seattle would be looking for OL WR or QB nothing really different than us . San fran would be the better partner because they could move up and get a shot at one of the top defensive prospects .. That may be, what about trading down to the 6th or 14th and getting their 2nd Round pick instead? Would that be enough ammo? I think we have to be careful here. I really want to address the o-line but we have to be careful we don't force a pick here and draft a tackle that isn't deserving of the spot. Based on this breakdown, I don't see any of the 4 being worth a #4 pick. In a tradedown one of these guys would make sense but I think we might be reaching and forcing a pick by need which in the past has been a mistake (i.e. Carlos Rogers over Merriman & Ware). This is where I agree with you. Last year there were a ton of Quality tackles, but this is a different year, there may not be as many truly high first round Tackles available this year Compared to last. I am more concerned about they compare to last years prospects versus how they compare to each other at this point. That is a humongous concern, and why I'm not sure if the #2 OT would be worth the pick at #4. Its such a high pick we cannot afford to screw that one up. And as you said we picked Rogers and Landry about this high a few drafts ago, a lot of people now think both are busts (I disagree, but they certainly have not performed up to their billing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Bulaga really excels at pass protection. I like that,, he made Stanzi look decent at Iowa. Okung according to this board might be a 2-3 year project, I wish there was a way to get Bulaga and Davis in this draft, Bulaga could step in at LT and we could run behind Davis. Bruce Campbell seems to have huge red flags when it comes to injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Two things I like about Okung after reading the scouting report: 1. He is quick and athletic. We need someone who can move and block in that zone scheme Shanahan loves. Okung would be a perfect fit for that. While Shanny is known for developing no name linemen, he has taken an OL in the first round before in Ryan Clady, who has turned out to be a Pro Bowler and franchise LT for the Broncos. 2. He is a great pass protector. Playing in the Big 12 which is a pass happy conference you know he'll be more than capable of pass protection. This is huge because the NFC East is loaded with great pass rushers like Demarcus Ware, Trent Cole, Justin Tuck etc. and we need guys who can block them. Okung should match up with them the way Samuels did(not right away of course but over time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky_Ervins32 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Taking a look at the previous link for the draft prospect ratings it appeared dated, so I suggest peeking at these. Sr. OT's http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_OT Jr. OT's http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011_OT Bulaga has missed 3 games with a thyroid issue as reported on his Wiki page (I followed a clue from his profile in the link above), which likely altered his ratings. Here are the overalls for seniors btw: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings And the Jrs (*note I don't believe that all of these players have declared eligible due to Locker being on the list): http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011 I think that if Okung falls to us, we take him. If not we trade down in the first to pick up a 3rd and probably take whatever OL is on the top of the board wherever we happen to be. In my estimation the decision will primarily rest on who is still on the line from this year. We can sit on a QB until mid to late rounds and possibly pick up Crompton (I know we didn't have alot of luck with our last Vol, but this would be in the 5th round or so), to be tutored over time by Shanahagans. I think that Canfield may be another option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U C S D SkinsFan Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 At pick #4, we take BPA or trade down. Trading down is gonna be VERY VERY DIFFICULT with the way the top 5 get paid. I highly doubt Suh will fall to 4, but for those of you who say pass on him or just trade the pick are delusional. Like I said earlier, trading the pick has a super low probability and you cannot pass up on a guy like him. If you're gonna give 25-30+ mil guaranteed to someone, you give it to a man-beast probable future pro-browler like him. I agree this OLine is pathetic and needs repair, but we aren't going to do it overnight with just 1 draft pick. This is gonna be a gradual process that will take a couple of years. We are going to hit on some players and miss on others. Who would have guessed Oher would be the best Tackle this year and he went 20 something. We should be thankful I guess...a lot of good teams have fun Sept-Jan, but us Redskins fans have fun Jan-Sept. Cheers to another fun offseason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky_Ervins32 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 UCSD Skins Fan, I disagree. Sanchez wasn't rated near as high at this point last year as his hype built at the appropriate time. This led to him being taken at 4 for a number of players and picks. Here is a little trivia on OL from 6 months ago: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81148068&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true Here is the list of prospects from a month ago: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d81032985&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true Here is something that may support your point: http://www.athlonsports.com/pro-football/12951/nfl-draft-defensive-tackles But...we just invested $100,000,000 (misleading I know, but how many times will I be able to type in 9 zeros.), in #92. Golston, Alexander, Montgomery and of course Griffin are still around. Griff is online to make over 5 mill this year. Suh is more valuable to others than he would be here...meaning that the multiple holes could get attention rather than making an already viable option better. Charles Brown is my new target to trade down for BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBush Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Suh won't be anywhere past 2 I don't have a good eye for Oline talent but I've come to trust the analysis of the guys at seattle draft blog http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com. Very clear, unbiased. A few of their points on players that have been noted here Positives Athony Davis = Best LT prospect http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/updated-mock-draft-5th-january.html Davis is raw but could have Ryan Clady type potential. He needs to improve his second level blocking, but has the most upside in a weaker tackle class than previous years. Mike Iputi = Top Guard Prospect (maybe 1st rounder) http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2009/12/thank-you-idaho-bowling-green.html I've not seen a guard pull as much as Iupati did in this game. It seemed like 80% of his snaps he'd launch over to the right side, with the running back just following him forward and usually picking up a nice gain. On one play with 3:01 left in the second quarter, Iupati pulled right as usual and located a linebacker to hammer. Whilst doing this, he held out his right hand and managed to block a second linebacker using a hand for both defenders. Whilst blocking both guys - he managed to push them forward four yards as the running back made a ten yard gain. You can't find that kind of second level blocking in college football usually. I really think Shanny will want a guy with his athleticism so it could be a good guy to target if we can trade down a bit. Negatives Russell Okung = NOT worth a #4 pick OVERRATED (and possibly a big concern due to injury) http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/okung-osu-ugly-in-cotton-bowl.html At times he's very good in pass protection, when he engages one-on-one and sets himself, he generally does a good job. However, he just isn't 'dominant'. There were two huge plays in the fourth quarter where I just thought, "wow - that's not good."The first instance came with 14:09 remaining and OSU with 2nd and 5. The quarterback Zach Robinson is under center and drops back to pass. Okung confronts the right defensive end off the snap, but the rusher simply moves inside, brushing past Okung as if he wasn't there. Even after the guy makes his way to the QB, it takes Okung 2-3 second to react to what's happened and by this point, he's stood in the open field looking at his QB being slammed into the ground. Robinson got up clutching his ribs and back. It was a general lack of effort to not even get his hands on the DE (who must be giving up around 30-40lbs on Okung) and the play in general looked very sloppy. Okung should still be able to deliver some kind of a punch. He'll be facing bigger, faster guys in the NFL. I didn't see Anthony Davis get beat like Okung did today when I scouted Rutgers. When scouting last year's prospects, I didn't see Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe or Michael Oher get beat like Okung did today. Andre Smith I did - but his value was always as a run blocking right tackle. Ciron Black -3rd rounder http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2009/09/ciron-black-cajun-for-stay-away.html Ciron Black is one of the most frustrating players I've scouted. I want to like him, but his play on the field is so ugly I'm amazed he's even being considered as a top tackle prospect. What's frustrating is that I'm convinced he has some athleticism there, and he might work out well, but his footwork is so bad it doesn't show up on the field. It amazes me he is being considered a top tackle prospect in this draft. Just to be certain I wasn't completely missing the boat, I talked to a former NFL Scout about Black and he confirmed my opinion. I wouldn't recommend any NFL team take him before the end of the 3rd round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Ciron Black is going to be a guard in the NFL. I heard the same things about Anthony Davis being the best LT in the Draft too. I think McShay said he was going to be taken at 5 by KC I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I think they would definitely do this is Suh drops to us. Singletary is a defense guy and he must love that kid. We could probably pick up one of their 1st rounders and their second for a guy like Suh. Would be fun to watch with Rak, Suh and Big Al' on our DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGREENHULK Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Buluga will go top 10. I think he will be the 2nd OT taken, and there is a slight possibility he passes everyone and goes before Okung. The guy is a nasty beast. I agree with that and besides if ES keeps pumping Buluga up then he might go Number 1 overall..... but he IS a top 10 pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I'm in the camp for Bulaga. He may have a guy or two rated above him but I think he's the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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