WEx: Offensive overhaul will come in the offseason

[HigSkin]

I think we need to keep Carlos. We don't have enough CBs to be letting go of him as well as all of the other players we are going to dump this offseason.

He may play better in press coverage than 10 yards off of the WR like he's been asked to do while he's been in DC. Now his inability to catch the ball is a completely different matter ...

Well, like I said in another thread, let's sit back and watch. I could see Los (via trade) and Smoot (cut) gone.

[Redskins4ever]

I like the idea of starting over. All successful franchises hit a rut and have to begin anew. Whatever changes are necessary, then I'm for it. I have no problem at all with the current QB situation. If Bruce Allen doesn't think Jason Campbell isn't good enough to be retained, which I personally believe he is, then he has to look to the draft for a young QB while looking to free agency for a veteran who can step up to the plate until that rookie is ready.

As for Portis, Cooley, Randle EL, Sellers, and Yoder goes, they've had their turn. Perhaps it's time for all of them to exit stage right. I wouldn't want Cooley to go because he can play TE in any offense, but if they can trade him to get a draft pick or two that will assist in building this team, then so be it.

[Hitman#21]

tO trade cooley this year coming off an injury would be unwise. You wouldn't get full value.

[Jeff in D.C.]

No one is saying we don't need to address the line and the beauty of the draft and free agency is that we can do BOTH IN THE SAME OFFSEASON. This is not an either/or situation like many are claiming.

OL can be filled in the 2nd-5th rounds (as well as even a limited free agency) and we may even acquire an extra pick or two via trade(s) in these rounds as well.

The bold part is a key point you make, especially heading into next year. Let's suppose that Bruce & Shanny get rid of older, big contract players such as as CP, ARE, Samuels, R. Thomas, Moss, Smoot, & a few others. Assuming it's an uncapped year next year, we can spend out the *** in FA (within reason) to fill several holes, and those dumped contracts should be completely off the books by the time a new CBA is in place down the road and a salary cap is back in effect. We know that Danny isn't shy with the checkbook, and for the first time in a more than a decade, we'll have a competent front office making personnel decisions. By my calculations, we need 8 new starters next season:

QB (unless JC is kept)

RB

LT

C

RG

RT

LB (this is assuming Rak is moved to DE, but perhaps Blades can step in)

CB

Granted this isn't counting for depth, but if we can sign three quality players in FA, it would only take five draft picks to round out the starters, plus quality G's & C's can be found in the later rounds. I believe we have three picks in the top 2 rounds, which means that QB, LT, & RB can be filled with those picks. Later rounds for RG & C, and fill the rest in FA or with picks acquired by trading down and stockpiling picks.

There are many ways of doing this, and I think with Bruce & Shanny plus hopefully a revamped scouting department, an entire overhaul can be accomplished in two offseasons, if not just one.

[Oldskool]

Conversely a revamped OL doesn't mean **** if the QB can't read a defense. No one is saying we don't need to address the line and the beauty of the draft and free agency is that we can do BOTH IN THE SAME OFFSEASON. This is not an either/or situation like many are claiming.

A QB that is protected still has a chance of making a read and a play against a defense. A QB running for his life and/or eating turf has a much lesser chance of doing so. I still find it incredible that people cannot make this rational leap.

OL can be filled in the 2nd-5th rounds (as well as even a limited free agency) and we may even acquire an extra pick or two via trade(s) in these rounds as well.

At this time trades are a pie in the sky fantasy of the fan base. Let's look at reality.

Right now I can't find any information as to players that will be UFA's and not RFA's with the most certain fact that there will be no CBA. Not knowing who would even be available, you have to focus on the draft.

Team needs are starting ROT, starting LOT, starting OC, starting ROG. These are not negotiable as there are no starting caliber players currently on the roster to fill these needs.

Then you go to your wish list: upgrade QB, upgrade RB, upgrade FS, depth at MLB, upgrade at LDT, depth at SSLB.

So all in all you have 5 picks and 4 absolutely mandatory holes to fill with FA and the draft. Unless Allen can draw blood from a stone and find a pair or 3 starters on the OL in free agency, the cries for a rookie QB or the mancrush du jour should fall on deaf ears.

[TotalRecall]

Gee, no mention of QBs. :doh:

The main problem with Sellers has been that he turns over the ball when he gets it. But now, even his lead blocking is suspect. And he's also probably getting slower as well. I, too, would like to see a much better pass catching FB.

Santana Moss should NOT be the #1 WR. All he has is speed. And that screams #3 WR. I'm not sold on Malcolm Kelly; he reminds me too much of Michael Westbrook.

[cahones01]

I still don't understand why people would even suggest trading Cooley. We make a great choice with a mid round pick, who develops into a clutch player and a great teammate. So what do the fans suggest? Trade him while he's just getting into his prime so we can draft another young player we'll have to develop who may or may not be as good.

[Jeff in D.C.]

I still don't understand why people would even suggest trading Cooley. We make a great choice with a mid round pick, who develops into a clutch player and a great teammate. So what do the fans suggest? Trade him while he's just getting into his prime so we can draft another young player we'll have to develop who may or may not be as good.

I'm a huge Cooley fan, but if we can get a 1st round pick for him, it's a move that has to be made so we can start re-building other areas. Players like him are easily available, but great RB/OL talent isn't, so the tradeoff would be worth it to pick up another 1st and turn it into a LT/RT/stud RB.

[cahones01]

I'm a huge Cooley fan, but if we can get a 1st round pick for him, it's a move that has to be made so we can start re-building other areas. Players like him are easily available, but great RB/OL talent isn't, so the tradeoff would be worth it to pick up another 1st and turn it into a LT/RT/stud RB.

The problem there is I doubt we'd get a 1st round pick for him. He'll be coming off IR and won't be as valuable to another team.

[Jeff in D.C.]

The problem there is I doubt we'd get a 1st round pick for him. He'll be coming off IR and won't be as valuable to another team.

Agreed, just saying it depends what we'd get for him.

[jgibbsfootball]

True but sad. Why? Look at their ages. I know that Cooley is not that old (27) to Davis (23) but who has more trade value? Cooley does. We could get a 1st round draft pick for him easily. We need OF lineman and it's also possible we can do a trade for him as well for an OF lineman. Cooley is a complete HB/TE. I would rather have him than Davis but giving Cooley the edge due to blocking and his trade value we must deal him to help our OL. Thoughts?

This team is in dire need of more than Cooley , As much as I hate to see him go , the francise is better served dealing him for players/draft picks

[cahones01]

Agreed, just saying it depends what we'd get for him.

Which is valid, and if it was a 1st rounder, I'd probaby take it as well. Anything less and I'd have a hard time trading a proven player who still has plenty of good years ahead of him.

[TotalRecall]

Which is valid, and if it was a 1st rounder, I'd probaby take it as well. Anything less and I'd have a hard time trading a proven player who still has plenty of good years ahead of him.

I think Cooley will be traded for draft picks. If not a first round pick, it will probably be something equivalent to a 1st round pick...like two second round picks and a fourth round pick.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I think this would be an ideal situation:

-trade Cooley for a 2nd and 5th

-trade Landry for a 2nd

then if we have an uncapped and restricted FAs

i would think JC and Rogers would be picked up at the 3rd rounder tag a piece. After all JC will intrigue a QB-less franchise (perhaps a built team like the Vikings who may be Favre-less or Panthers would more then willing to give up a third) because he is efficient and with a good O-line can at least manage the game (which is acceptable giving the RB situations on both teams)

I very seriously doubt we would be able to land a 2nd for Landry. Maybe a 3rd.

And is Jason Campbell better than Sage Rosenfels? I don't really think so. Plus they have Jackson. So I think the Vikings are out. Moore has been somewhat of revelation in Carolina so I think they're out. Off the top of my head the only place I could see Campbell potentially going and starting would be Oakland, maybe Buffalo, maybe San Fran and maybe St Louis.

The article never mentioned anything about Shanahan not keeping 2 pass catching TEs. It speculated that Bruce Allen prefers one blocking TE and one pass-catching TE.

It's not just speculation. In the pre-game show last week, Sonny specifically stated that Bruce Allen told him that "one thing you don't on a football team is two TE's who can catch the ball". I heard it myself and that's exactly how he put it.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Right now I can't find any information as to players that will be UFA's and not RFA's with the most certain fact that there will be no CBA. Not knowing who would even be available, you have to focus on the draft.

Here's a pretty good list of the provisional UFA's and RFA's for each team. The link to the AFC list is at the bottom of the page: http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/11/25/2010-nfc-free-agent-preview

Team needs are starting ROT, starting LOT, starting OC, starting ROG. These are not negotiable as there are no starting caliber players currently on the roster to fill these needs.

Then you go to your wish list: upgrade QB, upgrade RB, upgrade FS, depth at MLB, upgrade at LDT, depth at SSLB.

So all in all you have 5 picks and 4 absolutely mandatory holes to fill with FA and the draft. Unless Allen can draw blood from a stone and find a pair or 3 starters on the OL in free agency, the cries for a rookie QB or the mancrush du jour should fall on deaf ears.

I absolutely agree with all of your sentiments regarding the line. However, based on what those in the know on this board have relayed, Shanahan is a big fan of Sam Bradford. Whether or not we believe it's the right move, I strongly expect the team to draft either Bradford or Clausen depending on who is available. Even more so than a new general manager or head coach, a new quarterback symbolizes change and a new era for the franchise. Shanahan will have his rookie quarterback to mold to fit his system.

That leaves us with only one more high draft pick to address the line and four necessary spots to fill. (Though even Dockery, our one legitimate lineman, is an absolutely horrible fit for Shanahan's system) We can expect our 2nd rounder to start from day one, presumably a right tackle. There will be a lot of guards available in free agency - Stephen Neal is set to hit free agency and according to Pro Football Focus, he's been the 2nd best guard in all of football this year. At 33, he would undoubtedly be just a stop-gap, but he could man the position for a couple years as we add talent to our line through the next drafts. I fully expect us to be highly aggressive in targeting offensive linemen in free agency and this will be Neal's last opportunity for a pay day. He's just one example. And as teams use this offseason to purge themselves of bad contracts, I imagine more linemen will be unceremoniously released (like Dockery last year).

Obviously, the biggest issue is at left tackle. Because we are in a state of long-term rebuilding, it will take a few years to gather the talent to build a cohesive and effective unit. There will probably be some stop-gap veterans available in free agency: Chad Clifton is an above-average pass protector in Green Bay, and Barry Sims is the 31st highest-rated tackle in all of football (13th highest left tackle) - this again according to Pro Football Focus.

Because of the nature of our particular system, one that features smaller, more athletic linemen that are adept at moving laterally, we should be able to find some talent in the later rounds. If you look at all the successful lines in the league, they almost all have players that were found at the bottom of the draft or were undrafted free agents. We don't necessarily need to have the most talented linemen across the board but just those that precisely fit our offense. If you look at the Colts, for example, they've built their line to be principally pass-protectors; they are horrible at run blocking, which is why they have to consistently spend 1st round draft picks at running back to make up for that loss of running-game production. However, they built that line to suit perfectly the pass-heavy system, not necessarily requiring high-draft picks or free agents to do so.

We also have to accept that next year will be another tough transition year. It's a shame that this team was built so poorly - our defense has hit its prime this year and we'll see rapid regression from Haynesworth, Fletcher, Carter, Rogers, Smoot, etc. by the time our offense is up to par with a rebuilt line, new quarterback and new running backs. Presumably, once we get our franchise quarterback, the draft next year will focus predominately on the line again, in which we aim for our franchise left tackle.

Bill Parcells was able to scrap together a new line in one offseason with 4 new starters, though undoubtedly helped by the drafting of Jake Long. They had one big free agent signing at guard in Justin Smiley and one high draft pick in Long. But they also started Ikechuku Ndukwe at guard, who you may remember as a member of the Redskins back in 05/06. (He's currently on his 5th team in his short career).

The point being is this: though we drastically need a ton of help on the line, we ultimately have to be patient as we suffer through the pains of a rebuilding process. We'll need to find linemen who fit our system and we should be able to find production in at least one position from a player who none of us would have counted on. We will undoubtedly be highly aggressive in free agency, probably overpaying for veteran talent, and it will be the primary focus in our draft after selecting our next franchise quarterback. Entering the 2011 season, we will have better starters at every spot on the line, prime for Bradford/Clausen's NFL debut.

[SkinsTillIDie]

It's not just speculation. In the pre-game show last week, Sonny specifically stated that Bruce Allen told him that "one thing you don't on a football team is two TE's who can catch the ball". I heard it myself and that's exactly how he put it.

Well, that's not great to hear. Naturally, no team should be spending a high draft pick on a luxury pick like Fred Davis, not when they already have a premier pass-catching tight end. Especially when we had so many other obvious holes to fill. This I think was obvious to every Redskins fan on draft day in 2008.

However, we know what we have in Davis and Cooley, that goes without saying. It also goes further without saying all of the ample opportunities our passing game will have with these two on the field, particularly as the full back is being phased out of the league. Cooley, too, is extremely versatile as an H-back, while both players can move out and play as the slot receiver. Both are great after the catch. And with Moss and Randle El far from participants in our long-term plan, a foursome of Thomas, Kelly, Cooley and Davis could be our staple pass-catchers for the next 5 years without more pricey investment needed. (I do still have high hopes for Kelly, who will benefit from a new system that suits his strengths and a new quarterback more confident in throwing to wide receivers outside the numbers. His hands are incredible, and his leaping ability was on display for all to see last week). If Marko Mitchell develops in a few years, all the better.

Quite simply, trading away any player close to premier at his position for an unknown at the bottom of the 2nd round is foolish. The Giants drafted Clint Sintim with the pick received for Shockey and he's barely been able to see the field, despite all the Giants' linebacking woes.

Expecting more than a mid-to-late 2nd rounder for Cooley is simply unrealistic. Tony Gonzalez is a hall of famer and went for a low 2nd rounder, though he's admittedly older than Cooley. Especially in the richest draft in recent years and with looming uncertainty with the CBA, draft picks will be at a premium. Quite simply, there isn't a franchise out there that would trade away a first for a tight end - there is no team that is just "a tight end away from a championship."

Shanahan has the unique opportunity to design players for two highly talented tight ends in an offense that heavily employs the two tight-end set. If anything, their dual presence on the field will open lots of space downfield for Thomas and Kelly. In an offense that will be built to pass the ball, we would be foolish to break up this combo. I fear that Bruce Allen and co. will be making trades for trades-sake, hoping to stamp his presence onto the team. We have enough pieces in place where two or three good offseasons in a row will put us in a great position to contend in our division and conference. We should be building around what we have, not breaking it up.

No, Bruce, no football team needs two top pass-catching tight ends. That we have them currently though will be of great benefit to the pass-oriented offense that we will be running for the next many years

[ibarramedia]

We definitely need offensive linemen for next season. 4 or 5 new starters. Randle El will be gone. If they have to trade Malcolm Kelly for pics or a veteran wideout, I'm all for it. We need to keep Moss,Cooley,Thomas and Davis. Marko Mitchell seems to have potential.

Learning the offense should not be hard since it will be continuing education for the remainder of the offensive team. We are after all running the west coast offense with the Joe Gibbs power running game. The new linemen and the rest of the offense will learn the complete west coast offense. Passing game and running game.

[Devastate]

Pawn off Davis for picks. CC is still young and TE's have pretty long NFL lives. Davis is a great athlete and can catch really well, but Cooley has the complete TE skill set.. My hope is we keep both, but if that doesn't happy I hope we keep Cooley

[Grinder]

A QB that is protected still has a chance of making a read and a play against a defense. A QB running for his life and/or eating turf has a much lesser chance of doing so. I still find it incredible that people cannot make this rational leap.

Do you find it as incredible as I find it that there are people who -still- think we can't address both positions in one offseason?

1-Both QB and line need upgrading. If the right QB is out there you don't pass him up. Take him early and piece together an OL via mid rounds and free agency. Swap out vets with rookie talent down the line as able.

2-If the QB isn't there this draft then by all means spend the picks on new linemen and look for a "bridge" player at the QB spot, either someone new or a QB already on the roster.

Do you see how the second method sets us back a year? QB is unquestionably the most difficult position to play with the steepest learning curve. We need to install ours from year one day one, even if its only to carry a clipboard at first. We need to begin this process asap so that ideally he is ready to contend when the rest of the team is.

Mid round picks + free agent vets + a strong OL coach= a line that can protect our new franchise QB and can be upgraded further in the next offseason or two.

That's how you address both areas.

[Operations]

Cooley is a playmaker that could put up monstrous numbers with a good QB. They BETTER NOT trade him! Keep him & Davis!

[HailGreen28]

Try getting at least a #1 for Cooley or Davis, whichever one another team will go for. (Preferably trade Cooley)

Name Collins starting QB. Draft a good QB and bring another promising young prospect into training camp if Colt isn't up to it.

Candle goes in camp competing for a backup slot, dangle him for any decent trade.

I still think Landry, Rogers, and Hall are underrated, keep them.

O-Line replacements everywhere but LG, maybe LT one year later if by some miracle Samuels comes back.

Try to trade Randle-El for anything better than a ham sandwich.

And for the love of god, draft or sign a decent LB so Rak can play DE full time!

[Jethrodsp]

I love Cooley as much as any other Redskins fan, but if you have to choose between the 2 you have to choose Davis, his upside is way better. He's also younger and I think he can be an Antonio Gates type tight end I mean his speed athletasism and yard after catch capabilities are flat out better than Cooley's.

Bull. Chris Cooley is one of the toughest TEs in the league to bring down after the catch. Every game he plays he is responsible for a couple first downs on fight alone.

If the choice is a second for Cooley or a third for Davis, trade Davis. Chris Cooley has proven himself time and time again for this franchise and should be an offensive cornerstone.

[ashsra]

As much as love having Chris Cooley, it would definitely make more sense to trade him. Number 1. he's older, 2. he's more expensive than Fred Davis, 3. I don't think there's any question Davis has more upside. Don't get me wrong, I love Cooley's effort and grit, but there's no doubt Davis is more athletic. My only concern with Davis is he seems to be a head case sometimes but he's been much better this year. With all our problem areas, we just can't afford to keep Cooley for the value we would get back.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

I'm a huge Cooley fan, but if we can get a 1st round pick for him, it's a move that has to be made so we can start re-building other areas. Players like him are easily available, but great RB/OL talent isn't, so the tradeoff would be worth it to pick up another 1st and turn it into a LT/RT/stud RB.

Good RB's are easier to find than good TE's.

[PlayAction]

I still don't understand why people would even suggest trading Cooley. We make a great choice with a mid round pick, who develops into a clutch player and a great teammate. So what do the fans suggest? Trade him while he's just getting into his prime so we can draft another young player we'll have to develop who may or may not be as good.

Cooley was a third round pick. You wouldn't need to trade him if the Skins didn't have two pure pass catching TEs. There are other teams that trade players in their prime when at peak value AND they have someone ready to step into their shoes. The key question is whether the new coach would be able to get maximum production out of two pass catching TEs. If not, then it is a no-brainer to trade Cooley. He's a pro bowler who has proved his ability to produce year after year. He has more trade value than Davis. Davis has more upside IMO. He appears faster than Cooley and therefore should be able to run all of the downfield middle routes.