WEx: Offensive overhaul will come in the offseason

[SkinsTillIDie]

Why trade a tight end? Having two elite pass-catching tight ends is probably the best thing this offense has going for it. It's the only area in which we can actually dictate matchup problems. Furthermore, the Shanahan offense consistently utilizes the 2 TE set in a singleback formation - it's ideal for the stretch running plays and bootleg passes that he runs so much. And by playing with two tight ends, we can chip defensive ends far more often than we've been doing in Zorn's offense. Naturally, this would be a huge boost for our below-average tackles.

Campbell's favorite targets are his tight ends; he's not a great passer outside the numbers to wide receivers. If we keep him, having Cooley and Davis will make our passing offense better. And for any rookie quarterback (Bradford?), having a top-level pass-catching tight end will ease his transition as a starter. Having two of them will make it all the easier.

It would be far easier to teach our tight ends some more discipline and blocking technique/toughness than to receive fair value for them (at least a mid-level 2nd rounder in return). And even if we get a 2nd rounder in return for one of them (trading away a 'core Redskin' on a cheap contract, mind you), there's absolutely no guarantee that the draft pick will result in a good player.

We should be building around the few offensive weapons and depth that we have now, not trying to get rid of them for 'potential.' No one else in the league has the pass-catching tight end depth that we have. Surely an offensive genius like Shanahan will find the best ways to utilize them both in the offense.

[Grinder]

QB doesn't mean **** if there is no line to block for him. You can put Peyton Manning behind our O-line this year and he'd been ground to a fine dust. This team can survive and perhaps even thrive with a rebuilt and younger/talented O-line and Campbell at QB but it simply does not matter who's at QB if there is no O-line or running game.

You wouldn't get more than a mid/late round for Davis and no more than a late 2nd or 3rd round for Cooley.

With no CBA, there will be a distinct lack (but not void) of O-lineman available for FA. You need to come out of this draft with at least 2 starters on the O-line and that leaves very little room to take a QB that will sit on the bench and not contribute.

Conversely a revamped OL doesn't mean **** if the QB can't read a defense. No one is saying we don't need to address the line and the beauty of the draft and free agency is that we can do BOTH IN THE SAME OFFSEASON. This is not an either/or situation like many are claiming.

OL can be filled in the 2nd-5th rounds (as well as even a limited free agency) and we may even acquire an extra pick or two via trade(s) in these rounds as well.

Jason is a stand-up guy but he is completely wrong for a WCO and to continue to plod along with him is pointless.

[Veretax]

Who do you think is the better blocker?

Is it not possible to carry 3 Tight ends on the Roster? I mean DAvis is still young, Cooley is good, and Yoder can catch and block pretty well too. The Green Bay Packers during their run of super bowls ran the WCO with double tight ends in Jackson and Chumura that just tore up the competition.

[#98QBKiller]

Could we be seeing Mr. Cooley heading out of town for picks?

Fred Davis is one heck of an athlete

I love Cooley but if a team wants to give up a 1st or something comparable for him then I think we have to pull the trigger. Fred Davis has shown to be good enough and a hard worker.

[StillUnknown]

Could we be seeing Mr. Cooley heading out of town for picks?

Fred Davis is one heck of an athlete

i would trade the one who brings in the better deal, whoever it may be

as much as i love cooley, i would trade him if the price were right

[HigSkin]

Why trade a tight end? Having two elite pass-catching tight ends is probably the best thing this offense has going for it. It's the only area in which we can actually dictate matchup problems. Furthermore, the Shanahan offense consistently utilizes the 2 TE set in a singleback formation - it's ideal for the stretch running plays and bootleg passes that he runs so much. And by playing with two tight ends, we can chip defensive ends far more often than we've been doing in Zorn's offense. Naturally, this would be a huge boost for our below-average tackles.

Nobody is disputing their talent and you make good points, however and as stated in the article, you have one blocking and one catching. We currently have a blocking TE (Yoder) who rarely catches passes and 2 who catch the ball really well. I think the point of the article is there's value in a TE trade to gain other key players/picks vs. wasting one of our TE's talents. Think of it as a numbers thing and let's blame Vinny.

[Veretax]

Also the proof in the pudding. My son who is a growing Skins fan says Cooley is his favorite player. When these rumors started flying I looked at my six year old (expecting he'd be upset), and asked him how would you feel if the Redskins traded Cooley to another club for picks to try to make the team better.

His answer shocked me. He said that was fine, whatever was best for the team. So I think some of us need to unplug a bit and let Allen do what he feels is best long term even if it does not make sense.

[HigSkin]

Also the proof in the pudding. My sun who is a growing Skins fan says Cooley is his favorite player. When these rumors started flying I looked at my six year old (expecting he'd be upset), and asked him how would you feel if the Redskins traded Cooley to another club for picks to try to make the team better.

His answer shocked me. He said that was fine, whatever was best for the team. So I think some of us need to unplug a bit and let Allen do what he feels is best long term even if it does not make sense.

That's a great story and you're raising a fantastic little Skins fan!

I know what you mean about unplugged over change. I figured Cooley was untradeable for the simple fact that his jersey sales are so high and Snyder would never allow it. However, there's going to be a new sheriff in town and we should expect anything. I like Cooley and hope they can work it all out but trust in the new guys to do what's necessary.

[ADF]

Cooley does. We could get a 1st round draft pick for him easily.

I seriously doubt that we could get a first for Cooley. He's a really good TE but they aren't valued THAT much. I could see us getting a 2nd and maybe another pick or player.

[HigSkin]

I seriously doubt that we could get a first for Cooley. He's a really good TE but they aren't valued THAT much. I could see us getting a 2nd and maybe another pick or player.

New Orleans gave the Giants a 2nd and 5th for Shockey. I don't know about a 1st but think Cooley is better than Shockey.

:whoknows:

[maskedsuperstar]

Why trade a tight end? Having two elite pass-catching tight ends is probably the best thing this offense has going for it. It's the only area in which we can actually dictate matchup problems. Furthermore, the Shanahan offense consistently utilizes the 2 TE set in a singleback formation - it's ideal for the stretch running plays and bootleg passes that he runs so much. And by playing with two tight ends, we can chip defensive ends far more often than we've been doing in Zorn's offense. Naturally, this would be a huge boost for our below-average tackles.

Not going to happen. What part of the article don't you understand? Shanahan will not keep 2 pass catching TE's.

Campbell's favorite targets are his tight ends; he's not a great passer outside the numbers to wide receivers. If we keep him, having Cooley and Davis will make our passing offense better. And for any rookie quarterback (Bradford?), having a top-level pass-catching tight end will ease his transition as a starter. Having two of them will make it all the easier.

Before Cooley was injured, did you ever see Cooley and Davis in the game at the same time? I didn't. What makes you think Shanahan will keep 2 pass catching TE's. 1 of them has to block. Campbell? He's gone.

We should be building around the few offensive weapons and depth that we have now, not trying to get rid of them for 'potential.' No one else in the league has the pass-catching tight end depth that we have. Surely an offensive genius like Shanahan will find the best ways to utilize them both in the offense.

Name another team that has 2 pass catching TE's? Start in the Skins division.

[ADF]

New Orleans gave the Giants a 2nd and 5th for Shockey. I don't know about a 1st but think Cooley is better than Shockey.

:whoknows:

Then we're basically saying the same thing. It isn't impossible to get a first for Cooley but it is very unlikely. You'd have to find a playoff caliber team that was already stacked at the more vital positions and only needed a TE. There would also have to be a bidding war. Another way of possibly getting a first is if you made the pick(s) conditional.

I think we could get what the Giants got for Shockey. Though I'd hate to get rid of Cooley or Davis I'd understand if we did.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Nobody is disputing their talent and you make good points, however and as stated in the article, you have one blocking and one catching. We currently have a blocking TE (Yoder) who rarely catches passes and 2 who catch the ball really well. I think the point of the article is there's value in a TE trade to gain other key players/picks vs. wasting one of our TE's talents. Think of it as a numbers thing and let's blame Vinny.

I understand Bruce Allen's supposed philosophy of having 1 TE who can catch passes and one who can block. That's the way it's been in the NFL and it's a copycat league. It just doesn't make sense to trade young, cheap elite talent in a position for the potential to acquire talent in another position through the lottery that is the NFL draft. We should be building around our core - we have plenty of drafts in the future to build the offensive line, get running backs, get our franchise quarterback, etc. Plus, with this unique offseason opportunity to purge our cap, I wouldn't be surprised if we signed in free agency 4 mid-level offensive linemen that fit our system.

We are a team that will be built to pass. We will be drafting a quarterback with our #1 pick, we have a bevy of talented pass-catchers with potential and as stated, we have two top-tier pass catching tight ends. The offensive line will take time to build and gain chemistry, the drafted quarterback will take time to develop, and it will take time to find the right running backs for our offense in the middle-to-end of the draft. Trading our young tight ends just doesn't make sense, even if there's "value" to be had by doing so. Why trade away the one advantage our pass-oriented offense has over every team in the league? Especially when the one most likely to be traded, Cooley, is both a fan and lockerroom favorite, a guy who makes coming to work every day on a losing team that much more enjoyable for everyone else on the team. It would be a horrible move for this franchise

[dahibachi]

I think this would be an ideal situation:

-trade Cooley for a 2nd and 5th

-trade Landry for a 2nd

then if we have an uncapped and restricted FAs

i would think JC and Rogers would be picked up at the 3rd rounder tag a piece. After all JC will intrigue a QB-less franchise (perhaps a built team like the Vikings who may be Favre-less or Panthers would more then willing to give up a third) because he is efficient and with a good O-line can at least manage the game (which is acceptable giving the RB situations on both teams).

Then we'll cut Clinton Portis, Randle El, Randy Thomas, and Fred Smoot and leave players like Rabach unsigned... maybe resigning a serviceable back-up like Levi Jones to a small contract.

We'll have in the draft a...

1st

2nd

2nd

2nd

3rd

3rd

4th

5th

5th

7th

We could maybe package a 2nd and 3rd to move into the 1st so that we can address both QB and LT with high caliber players, (perhaps Bradford with the high 1st and Trent Williams or Bruce Campbell with the later 1st.) The remaining two 2nd rounders can be used to aquire a G and C. I figure the 3rd rounder can be a RB. the rest of the draft can be used for depth.

We can use FA to sign good but non-high priced players to fill needs along the o-line and RB maybe even add a Vet QB (marc bulger is likely to be unloaded by the Rams based off his huge contract and unlikely to find a team willing to shell out more then a short term deal) I still believe him to be a good QB given the right circumstance and we'd only use him to give the rookie QB a chance to develop.

This won't fix everything in a year but i like it as a start. Maybe looking at another 4-12/ 3-13 year and then we can utilize the next years batch to add another high caliber OL.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Not going to happen. What part of the article don't you understand? Shanahan will not keep 2 pass catching TE's.

The article never mentioned anything about Shanahan not keeping 2 pass catching TEs. It speculated that Bruce Allen prefers one blocking TE and one pass-catching TE.

Before Cooley was injured, did you ever see Cooley and Davis in the game at the same time? I didn't. What makes you think Shanahan will keep 2 pass catching TE's. 1 of them has to block. Campbell? He's gone.

By all accounts, Davis wasn't ready, mature enough on the field or off. When Cooley went down, Davis was forced into a situation in which he stepped up and delivered, developing rapidly. But you should already know this.

In 2008, the Broncos' 2nd ranked offense had two good tight ends that combined for more than 1000 yards. Shanahan loves the 2 TE set formation - imagine what he could do with two elite pass-catching tight ends rather than Daniel Graham and Tony Scheffler. Why does 1 TE have to be a predominant blocker? What makes you think that Davis can't develop into a better blocker? Cooley has improved every year in the league - he's seemingly mastered the pass-catching responsibilities of being a tight end in the league, fulfilling his potential in that regard. He's a probowler - what makes you so sure that either Davis or Cooley can't be an effective blocker if need be?

Name another team that has 2 pass catching TE's? Start in the Skins division.

Martellus Bennett has been nothing but a bust so far. And Jason Witten is probably the best all-around tight end in the league; he's an elite run blocker.

Again, no team in the league has 2 weapons at tight end like the Redskins have. And again, it is the one single advantage our offense has over every in the NFL.

[VRIEL1]

I'm a huge Cooley fan, but honestly if we are rebuilding, getting younger, and starting from scratch.... I'd have to go with Davis. Neither are good blockers. Both came out of college as pass catching TE's. If we are to keep one I'd keep the younger one and trade Cooley for more picks or an OL. Pick up a blocking TE in the draft.

[bird_1972]

New Orleans gave the Giants a 2nd and 5th for Shockey. I don't know about a 1st but think Cooley is better than Shockey.

:whoknows:

Problem is that he's coming off of an injury.

That might deflate his trade value a bit.

[dahibachi]

Shockey i broke his fibula and had surgery in week 15 in 2007 the year before he was traded and was a locker room distraction as well as an offseason distraction for the Giants.

[mnb123]

Problem is that he's coming off of an injury.

That might deflate his trade value a bit.

Shockey was coming off a more severe season-ending injury than Cooley, was causing locker room problems as well, and still got a 2nd and 5th

[bird_1972]

Shockey was coming off a more severe season-ending injury than Cooley, was causing locker room problems as well, and still got a 2nd and 5th

^^this combined with a relative lack of talent in FA given the lack of CBA and I feel more comfortable expecting a 1st or 2nd rounder for Cooley.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

I think this would be an ideal situation:

-trade Cooley for a 2nd and 5th

-trade Landry for a 2nd

then if we have an uncapped and restricted FAs

i would think JC and Rogers would be picked up at the 3rd rounder tag a piece. After all JC will intrigue a QB-less franchise (perhaps a built team like the Vikings who may be Favre-less or Panthers would more then willing to give up a third) because he is efficient and with a good O-line can at least manage the game (which is acceptable giving the RB situations on both teams).

Then we'll cut Clinton Portis, Randle El, Randy Thomas, and Fred Smoot and leave players like Rabach unsigned... maybe resigning a serviceable back-up like Levi Jones to a small contract. I could be wrong. It all depends on who needs a TE real bad. Who knows, a lot depends on who needs a tight end real bad and how desperate they want a good one.

We'll have in the draft a...

1st

2nd

2nd

2nd

3rd

3rd

4th

5th

5th

7th

We could maybe package a 2nd and 3rd to move into the 1st so that we can address both QB and LT with high caliber players, (perhaps Bradford with the high 1st and Trent Williams or Bruce Campbell with the later 1st.) The remaining two 2nd rounders can be used to aquire a G and C. I figure the 3rd rounder can be a RB. the rest of the draft can be used for depth.

We can use FA to sign good but non-high priced players to fill needs along the o-line and RB maybe even add a Vet QB (marc bulger is likely to be unloaded by the Rams based off his huge contract and unlikely to find a team willing to shell out more then a short term deal) I still believe him to be a good QB given the right circumstance and we'd only use him to give the rookie QB a chance to develop.

This won't fix everything in a year but i like it as a start. Maybe looking at another 4-12/ 3-13 year and then we can utilize the next years batch to add another high caliber OL.

My goodness I would love to land that many draft picks, but I don't see it happening. Cooley, one pick(2nd rd) at best and Landry maybe a 3rd. He's getting a Roy Williams type reputation. If we could swing a draft like that I would be absolutely glued to the TV. Who knows, maybe we could swing two picks if a team really, badly wants a productive TE.

[cphil006]

Gee... ya think?

[bird_1972]

I think in order to get the most out of this year's draft, we are going to have to trade out of our top 6 pick to nab more picks.

Just too many holes for us to fill.

Keeping the #6 overall (or better) is a luxury I don't think we can afford in a rebuilding year unless we DO get a #1 for Cooley in a trade.

[HigSkin]

I think in order to get the most out of this year's draft, we are going to have to trade out of our top 6 pick to nab more picks.

Just too many holes for us to fill.

Keeping the #6 overall (or better) is a luxury I don't think we can afford in a rebuilding year unless we DO get a #1 for Cooley in a trade.

We'll also have the ability to tendor/trade for a pick Carlos if things go uncapped. I could think of another one too, maybe Landry.

[bird_1972]

We'll also have the ability to tendor/trade for a pick Carlos if things go uncapped. I could think of another one too, maybe Landry.

I think we need to keep Carlos. We don't have enough CBs to be letting go of him as well as all of the other players we are going to dump this offseason.

He may play better in press coverage than 10 yards off of the WR like he's been asked to do while he's been in DC. Now his inability to catch the ball is a completely different matter ...