Fergasun Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 USA Today: Federal Pay Booms in Recession The number of federal workers earning six-figure salaries has exploded during the recession, according to a USA TODAY analysis of federal salary data. Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months — and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted. Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.I'm a Fed and somewhat disapointted at this populist hit piece. First of all I'll admit that there are way too many Federal employees (at my agency) who do very little work, have been a career fed, and are "allegedly" impossible to fire. The reason they are impossible to fire is because their managers don't care enough to spend the time necessary to document the poor performance (I think this has to span over 2 performance periods?). Now maybe it is because managers have plenty on their plate, but its no excuse for running an organization this way. This is actually the real problem. Now as far as salaries go. Are there any multi-million-dollar Feds? Federal workers typically make up college educated professionals. Was this mentioned? In fact according to the government statistics for professionsals, Federal workers are 20% underpayed. These articles got coverage in DC area and other Federal papers. Yet USA Today didn't bother presenting this in a fair manner at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 ... and to be honest I was talking with some colleagues of mine in the same field who work for a private company. I'd say a 20% "pay gap" is probably right, as I'd guess salaried private workers work 20% more. Now there are also another set of issues to discuss when talking about private jobs vs. Federal jobs such as there's no pressure to maximize and squeeze out profits and there's no pressure to outsource or insource in the Federal government... although I'll admit in our program there's at least 20x private workers for all the government folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLockesGhost Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 As someone who works in the private sector (small business at that), I'll admit I do harbor resentment towards government employees. The average school teacher I can accept without problem (even though they directly compete with my business), but lifers in bureaucracies annoy me quite a bit. I know quite a few government employees who have made $100,000 per year for years and had a very comfortable retirement. (One woman in particular had a better pension than salary. Another kid I know got hired by NSA and makes an astronomical salary.) The thing that gets me is that these people aren't particularly bright, or special. They just had it in mind that they were going to get a government job and they did. After that, it's gravy. You can't beat the money, benefits and security of working for an employer who can't go out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 If the government was a business it would have gone out of business years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 There are a TON of jobs being offered in this area.. If your out of work or looking.. you should look into them. Specially if you looking to kill someone in the next 2 years. I heard the 1st one is free.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Well, I know that there are many private sector individuals jumping to the Fed lately. I'm considering it too. In that light, I think you could say that the overall competence is going to continue to rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 They did at least include: "Jessica Klement, government affairs director for the Federal Managers Association, says the federal workforce is highly paid because the government employs skilled people such as scientists, physicians and lawyers. She says federal employees make 26% less than private workers for comparable jobs." I know when I took a fed job, I took a $26k job over a $32K job. I did so for the increased time off so I could party (22 at the time) and later raise a family. I was promoted, I think/hope for competence and hard work (ignore that I wrote a lot on here while programs ran). Should the government employees be the best or the worst of the work force? Should they be paid accordingly factoring in stability as something the government can offer at a level the private sector can not? I tend to think it should be roughly equivalent. What percentage of the private, professional work force makes figures now? What if we factor in how long they've done a job, because even in the private sector, having years of experience looking at a problem is worth a premium? Yes, the government is getting quality applicants now. I don't know if I could get the entry level job I got 11 years ago in todays job market. The competetion is better, and my resume is one I would consider mediocre by today's standards. At that time, few wanted to take the reduced pay. I think it's like complaining after a natural disaster that those who chose to who live a little cheaper and buy insurance are somehow to blaim for being better off than those who spent or saved the extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 In that light, I think you could say that the overall competence is going to continue to rise. How could it not? Blood sucking leaches are gonna get more efficient and this is progress? I am slightly biased:silly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 How could it not?Blood sucking leaches are gonna get more efficient and this is progress? I am slightly biased:silly: :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 As someone who works in the private sector (small business at that), I'll admit I do harbor resentment towards government employees. The average school teacher I can accept without problem (even though they directly compete with my business), but lifers in bureaucracies annoy me quite a bit.I know quite a few government employees who have made $100,000 per year for years and had a very comfortable retirement. (One woman in particular had a better pension than salary. Another kid I know got hired by NSA and makes an astronomical salary.) The thing that gets me is that these people aren't particularly bright, or special. They just had it in mind that they were going to get a government job and they did. After that, it's gravy. You can't beat the money, benefits and security of working for an employer who can't go out of business. The kid that works for the NSA probably had to get a Top Secret Clearence and a lifestyle Polygraph. This alone makes him a lot of money. There are far more jobs in the intellience community than there are qualified people to fill them. One thing in the Artical that is completly wrong. DCIPS sucks badly. We are now in a DCIPS pause which means that even though we completed the raiting period we cannot get performance based raises, so we essentially get screwed out of a year of rated time. Additionally, DCIPS is not canceled, its just paused until the end of next year. I don't know what he means that performance based raises were larger than expected unless he considers 0 to be to large. On another note I agree there are a fair amount of over paid positions Take for instance this title of someone recently hired at my agency: Deputy Assistant Deputy Director of XXXXXXXX followed by: Asssosiate Deputy Assistant Deputy Director of XXXXX Both guys make over 150k. The steps he was talking about first if you are in DCIPS you don't get them. Second, you got them every year steps 1-4. Steps 5-7 every two years and steps 8-9 every three years. So if you staying in the same grade it would take you 16 years to go from step 1 to step 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 5% = "exploded" lol. Agree with the poster that said managers need to be able to fire employees more easily. This is a real problem IMO. Other than that, you get what you pay for. If you want federal workers to be efficient and productive at jobs that would garner 20-27% more in private industry on average, chances are you are not going to attract the cream of the crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 As someone who works in the private sector (small business at that), I'll admit I do harbor resentment towards government employees. The average school teacher I can accept without problem (even though they directly compete with my business), but lifers in bureaucracies annoy me quite a bit.I know quite a few government employees who have made $100,000 per year for years and had a very comfortable retirement. (One woman in particular had a better pension than salary. Another kid I know got hired by NSA and makes an astronomical salary.) The thing that gets me is that these people aren't particularly bright, or special. They just had it in mind that they were going to get a government job and they did. After that, it's gravy. You can't beat the money, benefits and security of working for an employer who can't go out of business. 1- You can certainly beat the money. No question about it. Job security at a government position comes at the cost of earning a lower salary. 2- I've met people in the private sector that are dumb as a pile of rocks and are earning crazy money (50k a month) 3- The most wasteful behavior I've ever seen is without question in the private sector. Government workers and association/not-for-profit workers have NOTHING on the private sector in terms of waste. NOTHING. This is why I laugh when people tell me private insurance is more efficient. No way in hell that is remotely true and any efficiencies are converted into profits not savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Well I know that my mom is a Cheif Economist at the International Trade Commission and she makes like 135k. However, getting into that agency is very hard. My friend was trying to use my mom to get in as an intern, and my mom told him that, 'unless you have a phd, you won't get hired'. So for some jobs they are looking for quality. Government jobs may not pay as much as corresponding private jobs, but the job security is unbeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I worked for a private law firm before I came to the government. It took over thirteen years before my salary at the government finally reached what I had been making at my old job. In fact, I now make less than a brand new associate straight out of law school at my old law firm, and I have been a member of the Bar for 20 years. I'm not sure my experience was typical of all government workers, but it certainly was typical for the attorneys I work with. That it for what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonsieRB34 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 There seems to be people in both the private and public sector that are under and overcompensated. However, I've worked in both sectors and my perception is there are far more under-performing (i.e., lazy, apathetic, incomptent) employees in the public sector. I knew several federal employees making six figures that were dead weight. The bottom line is that if you moved the underperforming federal employees to the private sector, many of them would be weeded out (fired or quit), whereas if you moved underpeforming employees from the private to the public sector, probably none would be weeded out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonsieRB34 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Also, I think there is more of a sense of altruism in the federal workforce than private workforce. Many federal employees, even as civilians, regard their profession as a public service and may not care as much about income as other folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I worked for a private law firm before I came to the government.It took over thirteen years before my salary at the government finally reached what I had been making at my old job. In fact, I now make less than a brand new associate straight out of law school at my old law firm, and I have been a member of the Bar for 20 years. I'm not sure my experience was typical of all government workers, but it certainly was typical for the attorneys I work with. That it for what you will. Would you say your workload and job security are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Would you say your workload and job security are the same? Of course not. Both are much better here. That is the tradeoff that I made. I don't regret it. I'm just laughing at the idea that the money is anything remotely the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Also, I think there is more of a sense of altruism in the federal workforce than private workforce. Many federal employees, even as civilians, regard their profession as a public service and may not care as much about income as other folks. There are certainly some who have that mentality. I've seen that at each and every agency that I've worked with in my 10+ years doing what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonsieRB34 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Of course not. Both are much better here. That is the tradeoff that I made. I don't regret it.I'm just laughing at the idea that the money is anything remotely the same. The fact that workload is lower and job security is higher are reasons why the money shouldn't be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yep, the fed is paying everyone 6 figures in DC, no matter what dept. you are working for. It's more feasible to get a job with the government these days. 1. Better Pay 2. 99% job security 3. You don't have to do **** 4. Decent Benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I worked for a private law firm before I came to the government.It took over thirteen years before my salary at the government finally reached what I had been making at my old job. In fact, I now make less than a brand new associate straight out of law school at my old law firm, and I have been a member of the Bar for 20 years. I'm not sure my experience was typical of all government workers, but it certainly was typical for the attorneys I work with. That it for what you will. That may be true for legal personnel but for non-legal personnel it's better to go to the DOJ then to work for a V6 law firm. I work for a V6 lawfirm, I know. (the firm is We Gotya and Mangle ya) :cool: better known these days as the Grim Reaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yep, the fed is paying everyone 6 figures in DC, no matter what dept. you are working for.It's more feasible to get a job with the government these days. 1. Better Pay 2. 99% job security 3. You don't have to do **** 4. Decent Benefits. 1. Wrong (I could make 30k-40k more a year if I switched to private industry) 2. True. This is why I stay in the government 3. Wrong. I Work very hard and so do my coworkers. I wish I could sit around and collect a paycheck. 4. True. I enjoy my benifits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Some sound like they think the mail room worker is getting 6 figures. Should a doctor at NIH get 6 figures? What about the person running several multi million dollar projects on time and with-in budget? What about the nuclear scientist or the economist shaping the decisions on interest rates? Do you want minimum wage workers hired at the 7-11 for these jobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 The fact that workload is lower and job security is higher are reasons why the money shouldn't be the same. I agree. But some people seem to think that they ARE the same. This article tries to give that impression. For me and the people I know, they aren't the same - not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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