USA Today: Federal Pay Booms in Recession

[Predicto]

Yep, the fed is paying everyone 6 figures in DC, no matter what dept. you are working for.

It's more feasible to get a job with the government these days.

1. Better Pay

2. 99% job security

3. You don't have to do ****

4. Decent Benefits.

1. Wrong.

2. Somewhat true.

3. Wrong. We work hard. If it wasn't for the Tailgate I'd have no downtime at all.

4. True.

[GibbsFactor]

1. Wrong (I could make 30k-40k more a year if I switched to private industry)

2. True. This is why I stay in the government

3. Wrong. I Work very hard and so do my coworkers. I wish I could sit around and collect a paycheck.

4. True. I enjoy my benifits.

I could make a lateral move right now to the DOJ and make 20K more doing far less. Just saying.

[Predicto]

I could make a lateral move right now to the DOJ and make 20K more doing far less. Just saying.

Why don't you?

[Destino]

The fact that workload is lower and job security is higher are reasons why the money shouldn't be the same.

That's one way of looking at it I suppose.... if you want to ignore the fact that the ceiling is lower.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I could make a lateral move right now to the DOJ and make 20K more doing far less. Just saying.

Why don't you?

Good question. I don't understand why people would avoid the government these days. I had someone tell me the other day they would "never" work for the government because there is a stigma. I think that's ridiculous. There are plenty of successful and hard-working people that work for each and every one of my clients. You get out of your career what you put into it, no matter where it is.

[GibbsFactor]

Why don't you?

It's not all about the money and you guys would most likely have me on here MORE then I am now. Doing it for you. Plus I've got other aspirations, like becoming the CIO of a firm.

But in the IT industry, federal compensation is out of control. Junior level engineers are taking home 120K. They aren't getting more then 80K in the private sector. I do make 6 figures and am in a leadership role (scary right) but to do the same for the DOJ or the House would net me more. It really depends on the branch you are in. Go to the DC Courts or the House or Senate and you are tossing footballs all day long. Plus you have to deal with more workers that feel entited to do nothing. I just don't know if I could do it. I like being responsible for my budget and guiding a firm technically.

[Peeping Wizard]

If the government was a business it would have gone out of business years ago.

It has gone out of business. China is propping it up.

[baddog]

One of the things that is ALWAYS ignored about these kinds of reports... they talk about the "percent" of federal workers... c'mon, I know enough of you have looked at enough statistics to know they can be misleading. There have been many efforts to "privatize" federal jobs- outsource them because of the presumed lower cost to have a private firm do it instead. Guess what jobs are being outsourced? Lower level wage earners- janitorial, guards, admin support, printing, etc. Those that remain tend to be higher wage earners, and guess what, your percentages are suddenly very different.

Look- there is a lot of waste in the government, BUT I can assure you that those contracted services often times actually end up costing (you) more. The biggest waste in the federal government isn't it's workers (though I HATE it when poor workers or non workers are given a free pass), it is the budget process that we must live with. Because of the way CONGRESS passes budgets, most federal agencies are forced into a long period of not being able to spend money that they were promised. So it is often months into the FY before they can act on many of the things the money was approved for. All too soon the fiscal year is ending, moneys are left over. But can we save those funds and use them next year? NO. All that left over money MUST be spent and it is spent oftentimes on unnecessary and frivilous things. Why spend it then? b/c if they don't their budgets are automatically reduced for the next year. This pretty much forces agencies to waste horrendous amounts of money.

[JonsieRB34]

That's one way of looking at it I suppose.... if you want to ignore the fact that the ceiling is lower.

Good point, although the "fact that the ceiling is lower" isn't necessarily being ignored; it's not always applicable. It's hard to make the wage comparisons without considering the industry (e.g., investment banking vs. working for a grocery chain's corporate center).

The odds of making 150k (arbitrarily defined ceiling) for a grocery chain are probably very close to making the same amount for the government, whereas those odds are probably inversely related in Investment Banking.

[Stadium-Armory]

I know quite a few government employees who have made $100,000 per year for years and had a very comfortable retirement. (One woman in particular had a better pension than salary. Another kid I know got hired by NSA and makes an astronomical salary.) The thing that gets me is that these people aren't particularly bright, or special. They just had it in mind that they were going to get a government job and they did. After that, it's gravy.

You can't beat the money, benefits and security of working for an employer who can't go out of business.

My parents were both life long civil servants. Both college graduates, and both worked very hard at an honest living. They deserved what they received, and could probably have made even more in the private sector.

My parents were in college during Kennedy's administration. When he said: "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". For many people, including my father, that meant something. He moved from Indiana - leaving behind the family Jewelry store buisness which he could have intherited - to work in civil service for his country.

Furthermore, some of these people actually sacrifice for our country (as my mother did). She worked for an agency that sent her over seas for log periods of time. This put a strain on our family and their relationship. But she did it out of love for her job and her country.

And to hear people put down "the government" and bash the people who work there as crooks who are looking for a free hand out is.. is.. I don't know what, but it burns me.

[JohnLockesGhost]

And to hear people put down "the government" and bash the people who work there as crooks who are looking for a free hand out is.. is.. I don't know what, but it burns me.

Yeah, well, it burns me when people imply that working for the government (i.e. "civil service") is somehow nobler than working in the private sector. For some reason, getting a job at the Social Security Administration is some sort of self-sacrifice, but stocking shelves at the Safeway isn't.

How is the guy that works nights at the grocery store not "doing something for his country"? He works hard and helps his neighbors put food on the table. But because his check isn't signed by Uncle Sam, he's not a noble "civil servant."

[Stadium-Armory]

Yeah, well, it burns me when people imply that working for the government (i.e. "civil service") is somehow nobler than working in the private sector.

For some reason, getting a job at the Social Security Administration is some sort of self-sacrifice, but stocking shelves at the Safeway isn't."

How is the guy that works nights at the grocery store not "doing something for his country"? He works hard and helps his neighbors put food on the table. But because his check isn't signed by Uncle Sam, he's not a noble "civil servant."

You're arguing something different, and putting words in my mouth that I didn't say or imply. My problem is with the perception that people who work for the government are crooks looking for handouts. These are regular people who earn an honest living working for their country.

The private sector shelf stocker works an honest living and deserves to be respected for it. As does the civil servant.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yeah, well, it burns me when people imply that working for the government (i.e. "civil service") is somehow nobler than working in the private sector. For some reason, getting a job at the Social Security Administration is some sort of self-sacrifice, but stocking shelves at the Safeway isn't.

How is the guy that works nights at the grocery store not "doing something for his country"? He works hard and helps his neighbors put food on the table. But because his check isn't signed by Uncle Sam, he's not a noble "civil servant."

I think you might be projecting most of that onto other peoples' posts.

Basically, if you work a job for the government for $75K that you could work in the private sector for $100K, you're sacrificing something. If you're stocking shelves at Safeway, it's tough to come up with a scenario in which you could be making more money doing that somewhere else but choose not to.

Keep in mind, not too many government workers have that self-sacrificing attitude. Most take the job because it's decent pay, with great hours, and fantastic job security/benefits.

[zoony]

Funny, the hot thing in most circles in the DC area is to get a "federal job". You've arrived when you land one.

There are no federal jobs here, with the exception of Oak Ridge Nat'l Laboratory. People scratch and claw and fight to get on there, even as just a security guard.

Let's not pretend that Federal workers are making any kind of sacrifice. They hold sought-after jobs that they probably knew someone in order to get.

Competitive pay + lifetime benefits package + awesome pension + no chance of losing your job... whats not to like?

....

[zoony]

Basically, if you work a job for the government for $75K that you could work in the private sector for $100K, you're sacrificing something.

No, not even close. Not in the slightest.

I'm not trying to be a jerk- but who wouldn't take the government job at $75k???? Lifetime job security, pension you can get nowhere else, awesome benefits, and a much reduced workload.

There is no sacrifice whatsoever. Complete myth.

...

[twa]

My problem is with the perception that people who work for the government are crooks looking for handouts. These are regular people who earn an honest living working for their country.

The private sector shelf stocker works an honest living and deserves to be respected for it. As does the civil servant.

I agree for the most part,though I do think these regular people work for crooks.

[Stadium-Armory]

Funny, the hot thing in most circles in the DC area is to get a "federal job". You've arrived when you land one.

There are no federal jobs here, with the exception of Oak Ridge Nat'l Laboratory. People scratch and claw and fight to get on there, even as just a security guard.

Let's not pretend that Federal workers are making any kind of sacrifice. They hold sought-after jobs that they probably knew someone in order to get.

Competitive pay + lifetime benefits package + awesome pension + no chance of losing your job... whats not to like?

....

I don't believe the life time pension thing is still in effect. I think they did away with that a few years back. Federal government employees of our generation get pretty much the same sort of benefits as private sectof folks. 401k and such, although they ahve different names for it. I'll check, or someone here in the Fed can probably calrrify.

And many federal workers (of which I am not one) do make sarifices. There are plenty of federal employees, who are not in the military, who sacrifice at various levels for their jobs. My mother did. As do people in the private sector. But to say that people in the federal government have it easy is hogwash in my opinion.

I work for a large company, and see every day people sitting around making 100k+ to do nothing but twiddle their thumbs.

[Stadium-Armory]

No, not even close. Not in the slightest.

I'm not trying to be a jerk- but who wouldn't take the government job at $75k???? Lifetime job security, pension you can get nowhere else, awesome benefits, and a much reduced workload.

There is no sacrifice whatsoever. Complete myth.

...

I think yours is the myth. I believe the pension thing isn't in effect any more. It was a geneartion ago, but I think its been done away with (but I may be wrong on that).

I make way more in the private sector than I would in the federal government. I make as much as a 1 star general, for being a mid level people manager at a large company. I think I do a pretty decent job and deserve what I get, but doing the same at the fed I would make less.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

No, not even close. Not in the slightest.

I'm not trying to be a jerk- but who wouldn't take the government job at $75k???? Lifetime job security, pension you can get nowhere else, awesome benefits, and a much reduced workload.

There is no sacrifice whatsoever. Complete myth.

...

Let me counter each point...

1) Lifetime job security: Probably true, but how much more secure than working for a government consulting company (assuming you do an adequate job)?

2) Pension: Some people are grandfathered in with a pension like our parents got (up to 80% or more of your highest salary), but now you basically accrue 1% per year you work. So, most people will max out with 20-30% of their salary as a pension. Still very good, but nothing like the myth of the government pension.

3) Awesome benefits: Agreed.

4) Much reduced workload: That simply isn't true anymore. Every single person I know who's made the jump from a consultant to a Fed has told me that the workload is about the same. And, given that there are some people who don't pull their weight, more work sometimes even falls to those who do a professional job.

And let's not forget...in my example, you're making 25% less. Sure, no one is going to starve making $75K, but try slashing a quarter of your budget to take a "safe" job and see how that feels.

It's not as much a no-brainer as some make it out to be.

[JohnLockesGhost]

You're arguing something different, and putting words in my mouth that I didn't say or imply. My problem is with the perception that people who work for the government are crooks looking for handouts. These are regular people who earn an honest living working for their country.

The private sector shelf stocker works an honest living and deserves to be respected for it. As does the civil servant.

I'll concede most are good people doing an honest day's work. Some, however, close their doors and put their heads on their desks. But that's not my problem.

My main problem is that one sector supports the other. There would be no government sector without a productive private sector. And so it does get under my skin when I feel I'm working my job in the private sector not really for myself, but so some guy can make a great living working for the government.

Of course, this brings up the issue of the Civil Service Union and other public unions (e.g. teachers' unions). I've actually argued that if you work for the government you should forfeit your right to vote for the government you work for. I still think that's a sound idea, even if unpopular.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'll concede most are good people doing an honest day's work. Some, however, close their doors and put their heads on their desks. But that's not my problem.

My main problem is that one sector supports the other. There would be no government sector without a productive private sector. And so it does get under my skin when I feel I'm working my job in the private sector not really for myself, but so some guy can make a great living working for the government.

Of course, this brings up the issue of the Civil Service Union and other public unions (e.g. teachers' unions). I've actually argued that if you work for the government you should forfeit your right to vote for the government you work for. I still think that's a sound idea, even if unpopular.

You could look at it two ways. If the government was as efficient as everyone "wants" it to be, there would be very little private sector to speak of in the DC area. I know I'd be out of a job if the government was capable of doing what my company does for them.

[Predicto]

No, not even close. Not in the slightest.

I'm not trying to be a jerk- but who wouldn't take the government job at $75k???? Lifetime job security, pension you can get nowhere else, awesome benefits, and a much reduced workload.

There is no sacrifice whatsoever. Complete myth.

...

I see that zoony has his blinder glasses on this morning, same as us plebians. :laugh:

[zoony]

I see that zoony has his blinder glasses on this morning, same as us plebians. :laugh:

oh stop. :nutkick:

That said, it would be interesting to see data on people leaving government jobs for private sector jobs. I'd be willing to bet it is a rare occurance.

....

[Fergasun]

I guess the other point that I didn't have time to make. In private industry there are folks making $200k, $300k, $500k, millions of dollars. Yet I don't think even the President makes that much money (okay maybe he is up to $200k?).

The one thing I hate about this job is the "dead weight", it may vary agency to agency. My job is far away from DC, and I think we have a lot more dead weight than those we have to deal with in DC. I think the DC jobs will just grind you out personally if you are in a high enough position.... since my impression is that you have to deal with Congress, staffers, etc. (I work in DoD).

Personally I would much rather prefer working 50+ hours per week at home for a small company at a higher salary than my satisfying government work which causes me to travel significant amount of time. It's true right now I don't think I have the balls nor great experience to get that job. Coming out of college working for the government was a great opportunity and has opened some doors... but right now when I look at my older co-workers, I feel like they haven't progressed much... the oppurtunities for advancement require me to travel to DC... I would much rather switch and learn something new (grass is always greener).

[Fergasun]

The attrition rate for my co-workers after 3 years was also something like 50%. 1) My agency has a lot of travel. 2) There are a lot of entrenched folks who don't do great work, but you can't replace them. 3) Company vision is completely lacking and not looking for growth.

I feel a lot of these items too, but for the most part I've been in a niche position.