Definately, D is the problem

[tr1]

D is giving up 16.3 points/game. 6th best in NFL.

While, O is averaging 13.3 points/game. 28th in the league.

28>6. Higher is better right...

How are they doing with opponent TOP?

[SirClintonPortis]

the last time i checked, the team that did better or worse on 3rd downs was not awarded a win or a loss.

thats because the team that scores more POINTS than the other wins.

you CAN NOT WIN on a consistent basis in the nfl is you score 13 POINTS per game. this is what our offense is doing, and why our offense deserves more scrutiny than the defense.

yes, the defense has problems. and i admit they are playing to a lower level than I (and most) expected them to. but really, should they be expected to hold teams to ten points per game?

by your argument, an improvemt in third down defense would ultimately lead to a better scoring defense, right? since teams would have more drives stalled and....ultimately....SCORE LESS!!!

holding teams to 13, 10, 9 points etc. on a consistent basis is expecting the defense to perform at a LEGENDARY level. i wish they could, but our defense is not the 2000 ravens or steel curtain. and even then, WE WOULD STILL BE STRUGGLING TO WIN GAMES BECAUSE WE CANT SCORE!!!!

on the contrary asking the offense to score 20 points per game is asking them to be AVERAGE. not good, great or legendary. AVERAGE!!!!!!!!

The D's play has been far from legendary. I'd take the Jets D, thank you very much.

[jkypoo]

How are they doing with opponent TOP?

That wouldn't matter if our offense could score more than our defense allows, which right now would be an average of 17 ppg. And TOP is a two way street.

But if we're going to be critical of our defense:

What about turnovers?

3rd down percentage?

Run stopping?

etc. etc.

It is still not their fault that the O can't put points on the board.

And, hell, I'm not even talking 25-30 ppg.

I'm talking about the O scoring and average of 17 ppg.

[20April1980]

We do have a very good defense, where it counts.

The only two things that should matter are points allowed by our defense and points scored by our offense. Right now, our D is only giving up 16 per game. Sure, they could do some things better, but if the offense could score at least 17 a game (on average) then this whole discussion would be moot. The defense keeping the points low is keeping the game in our favor, our offense has yet to take advantage (except for the Rams game).

Once again in both losses our defense was no where to be found in the first half and the 4th qtr.

If you expect to still be top 5 in scoring on defense if we do not fix out issues you will be mistaken. The rams are so inept, they are dead last in scoring. Same with the rams. They only slightly better than us.

Our defense is 15th or worse in ever other stat.

Wait till we start playing quality opponents. We have let teams go 60+ on us every game this season.

We suck on both sides of the ball. We are DEAD LAST in 3rd downs. Last team to finish last in 3rd down went 2-14!!!!

[20April1980]

That wouldn't matter if our offense could score more than our defense allows, which right now would be an average of 17 ppg. And TOP is a two way street.

But if we're going to be critical of our defense:

What about turnovers?

3rd down percentage?

Run stopping?

etc. etc.

It is still not their fault that the O can't put points on the board.

And, hell, I'm not even talking 25-30 ppg.

I'm talking about the O scoring and average of 17 ppg.

How is this the offenses fault. Start to our 2 losses.

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

15:00 1 07:19 NYG 22 12 67 Field Goal

04:52 1 04:58 NYG 20 10 77 Downs

13:20 2 03:10 NYG 44 6 44 Touchdown

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

15:00 1 03:51 DET 15 6 13 Punt

07:10 1 05:50 DET 1 12 99 Touchdown

13:56 2 05:26 DET 6 11 74 Field Goal

06:53 2 06:53 DET 6 18 86 Field Goal

00:00 2 00:00 DET 0 1 0 End of 1st Half

And remember the first Lions Td was a 99 yard drive after we drove down field and got stopped at the 1 so the defense should have been rested.

Our offense sucks as does our defense. Our defense couldn't stop no one out of the gate.

[MumboSauce]

The D hasn't been great, but the Offense is still the major problem. The pts avg per game is atrocious.

[SkinsFTW]

When you'd likely be 1-2 with a baseball team as your offense you know it's not the defenses fault. We've given up 13, 7, and 13.

WOW! It's gotta be the defense! That's a lot of points. Meanwhile we've score 6 total points on offense in the first half of 3 games. TOTAL!

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

:hysterical:

Really?

Not the play calling?

Not the 24th ranked rush offense?

Not cp not having 100 yards or a td?

Not even injuries to key guys like Randy Thomas?

So this defense went from elite top 5 to bums overnight cause they no longer believe in JC? Who has been their QB for 3 season now? :hysterical:

Now I have read it all. The defense sucks cause of JC? wow

We drive 75 yards and CP can't score from the 1 so since the defense is upset they let the Lions and a rookie QB go 99 yrds for a td? Damn JC.

They were fine with 16 pts a game but 13 broke the defenses back lol. No body tell him JC is avg more yards a game this year than last. The biggest difference in our offense is no rushing game. But that doesn't matter.

We couldn't score last year we had 5th ranked defense, spend millions and draft picks to upgrade they do worse cause we still can't score. What a joke

Actually you have really read nothing, fact is every time you try and defend JC and the lack of offense you prove that.

A top 5 elite defense to a top 6 bunch of bums? I now understand your vision when it comes to our offense!

Yes 3 seasons of JC is enough to make any defense quit.

Bill Walsh could be running this offense and it would still go no where, why? Because JC who is a horrid QB is attempting to run it.

So long as opposing defenses don't respect JC Portis will never find running lanes, as Harrison said defenses don't respect JC. What do you think that actually means? I will tell you what it doesn't mean, their not calling him names and making fun of him in the parking lot after the game, what it means is the defense does not respect his ability to throw the ball, so with that comes 8 and 9 men in the box without a care in the world that JC will burn them down field, not only are they not worried about it, they don't even believe he will throw it down field, which means putting 8 and 9 men in the box is twice as smart because those guys will be in the area when JC throws his patented dump off.

Now you have read it all!

[20April1980]

When you'd likely be 1-2 with a baseball team as your offense you know it's not the defenses fault. We've given up 13, 7, and 13.

WOW! It's gotta be the defense! That's a lot of points. Meanwhile we've score 6 total points on offense in the first half of 3 games. TOTAL!

I want last years defense. top 10 in every statistical category and held teams to 36% 3rd downs.

We have not stopped anybody from scoring. Each loss started with our defense being destroyed out the gate. Long time consuming drives. No excuses.

We suck as a team period. Not one areas can say they did not help us lose.

[gca61087]

The D's play has been far from legendary. I'd take the Jets D, thank you very much.

i know, thats the point i was making. i know they aren't legendary. as of right now, they aren't even good. i'd call them average.

the argument i'm making is that scoring defense is the most important stat. we do well in that, despite our other flaws.

however, our offense is so inept that we can't meet the minimal scoring expectations that our defense set.

while people continue to argue that we can't get teams off the field, the bottom line is this. the redskins offense has been given as many (give or take a few) opportunities that our opponents have. yet we consistently underperform on offense compared to our opponent, scoring a measly 13 points per game.

that why we can't win games, and why the offense deserves more criticism than the defense imo.

[20April1980]

Actually you have really read nothing' date=' fact is every time you try and defend JC and the lack of offense you prove that.

A top 5 elite defense to a top 6 bunch of bums? I now understand your vision when it comes to our offense!

Yes 3 seasons of JC is enough to make any defense quit.

Bill Walsh could be running this offense and it would still go no where, why? Because JC who is a horrid QB is attempting to run it.

So long as opposing defenses don't respect JC Portis will never find running lanes, as Harrison said defenses don't respect JC. What do you think that actually means? I will tell you what it doesn't mean, their not calling him names and making fun of him in the parking lot after the game, what it means is the defense does not respect his ability to throw the ball, so with that comes 8 and 9 men in the box without a care in the world that JC will burn them down field, not only are they not worried about it, they don't even believe he will throw it down field, which means putting 8 and 9 men in the box is twice as smart because those guys will be in the area when JC throws his patented dump off.

Now you have read it all![/quote']

How bout some facts instead of all your conjecture and make believe

Right now JC is top 10 in almost every category. Our offense how ever is struggling

2008 offensive stats

19th total offense

28th in scoring 16.6 pts game

26th on 3rd downs 35% completion

23rd passing only 189 yards a game

8th rushing at 130.9 yards a game

2009 offense

13th total offense 349 yards a game

28th in scoring 13.3 pts a game

18th on 3rd downs at 38%

10th passing at 249.0 yards a game

24th rushing at 91.7 yards a game.

So our passing offense gets better and our rushing games falls completely flat yet you say the defense would quit on JC, why not blame CP. Our passing game has improved from last year. We fell from 8th to 24th in rushing.

Those pesky facts always mess up speculation.

[jkypoo]

Once again in both losses our defense was no where to be found in the first half and the 4th qtr.

If you expect to still be top 5 in scoring on defense if we do not fix out issues you will be mistaken.

My assertion was merely that we have a very good defense where it counts. That implies nothing about the future, only that we currently have a very good defense as far as not allowing points. And if only giving up 16 ppg means that "our defense was no where to be found" for the majority of the game, then was does a 13 ppg avg say about our offense. And your assertion that the defensive ppg will rise when our competition stiffens, what do you think will happen to our offensive ppg?

How is this the offenses fault. Start to our 2 losses.

<snip>

And remember the first Lions Td was a 99 yard drive after we drove down field and got stopped at the 1 so the defense should have been rested.

Our offense sucks as does our defense. Our defense couldn't stop no one out of the gate.

Don't forget that the offense gets possessions in between all of those drives. They had ample opportunity to put points on the board. That is, in part, how the offense is at fault. They only needed 20 that game. They only need to average 17. By far, the offense deserves more of the blame.

[20April1980]

My assertion was merely that we have a very good defense where it counts. That implies nothing about the future, only that we currently have a very good defense as far as not allowing points. And if only giving up 16 ppg means that "our defense was no where to be found" for the majority of the game, then was does a 13 ppg avg say about our offense. And your assertion that the defensive ppg will rise when our competition stiffens, what do you think will happen to our offensive ppg?

Don't forget that the offense gets possessions in between all of those drives. They had ample opportunity to put points on the board. That is, in part, how the offense is at fault. They only needed 20 that game. They only need to average 17. By far, the offense deserves more of the blame.

Once again for like the 10th time. The offense is just as fault. I have never said otherwise.

Next we are not good where it counts. They came thru in the 4th qtr in the Rams game. but in the Giants and Lions games they opened the game flat, gave up long drives and failed to get the critical stop in the 4th qtr when we had a chance to still win either game.

We could not convert a 3rd down on either side of the ball in the Lions game. And our defense let them go 85 yards for a Td to win the game.

Once again the offense could have helped earlier and in the first half. Hell we could have kicked a fg instead if going for it on 4th and 1.

I am not disputing any of that. Only pointing out the facts about the defense as well. they have not lived up any where near expectations and have contributed to our losses. We know the 4th and 1 stop added momentum to the Lions, but what does the defense get for letting them go 99 yards and score a td with a rookie QB.

Both sides just as responsible for our losses. We are not good on either side of the ball right now.

If it was just the offense I would say it. I am sorry but we are losing because of our defense as well.

[tiger187126]

teams convert their 3rd downs 51% of the time against our defense, and if you watch the games you would see that those aren't 3rd and 1 or 2 it's 3rd and 5+.

we're also getting killed on TOP, and yet our offense is 13th in yds p/g.

i'm not good at math, but our defense (which we have been spending picks and money on a lot more than the offense) is not getting anything done, and has actually been worse than last year.

[20April1980]

teams convert their 3rd downs 51% of the time against our defense, and if you watch the games you would see that those aren't 3rd and 1 or 2 it's 3rd and 5+.

we're also getting killed on TOP, and yet our offense is 13th in yds p/g.

i'm not good at math, but our defense (which we have been spending picks and money on a lot more than the offense) is not getting anything done, and has actually been worse than last year.

Exactly. We suck on both sides of the ball right now.

Doesn't mean we can't get better. We got 13 games ahead of us but we can't ignore the responsibility every one on the team has to how we got to be 1-2 and lost to the Lions.

That is the only way you turn it around and make something out of the year. Or we ignore our true issues and live in last years top 5 defenses memory :hysterical:

[tiger187126]

Exactly. We suck on both sides of the ball right now.

Doesn't mean we can't get better. We got 13 games ahead of us but we can't ignore the responsibility every one on the team has to how we got to be 1-2 and lost to the Lions.

That is the only way you turn it around and make something out of the year. Or we ignore our true issues and live in last years top 5 defenses memory :hysterical:

every facet of this team sucks right now. the difference is we expect the offense and ST to suck, they've been bad for what, 10 years?

there is no excuse for giving up 51% on third down. that is absolutely pathetic. all the money and picks we've spent and this defense is the weak link on this team.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

How bout some facts instead of all your conjecture and make believe

Right now JC is top 10 in almost every category. Our offense how ever is struggling

2008 offensive stats

19th total offense

28th in scoring 16.6 pts game

26th on 3rd downs 35% completion

23rd passing only 189 yards a game

8th rushing at 130.9 yards a game

2009 offense

13th total offense 349 yards a game

28th in scoring 13.3 pts a game

18th on 3rd downs at 38%

10th passing at 249.0 yards a game

24th rushing at 91.7 yards a game.

So our passing offense gets better and our rushing games falls completely flat yet you say the defense would quit on JC, why not blame CP. Our passing game has improved from last year. We fell from 8th to 24th in rushing.

Those pesky facts always mess up speculation.

You do understand that JC has been putting up yds against the 2 worst teams in the league don't you?

You do understand that passing stats can easily distort the reality of a QB don't you?

How many insignificant completions are factored into JC's stats, he has 2 garbage time drives and scores late in the game, that aside how many yds and completions does he have by checking the ball down on 3rd and long?

It amazes me how well JC drives the ball late in a game when we are down by 2 scores, yet when the game is on the line he just can't seem to move the ball the way defenses allow him to when they have lead, only when they decide to allow JC to burn clock does he make significant progress on offense.

You can cry all you want about how these defenses were not giving the underneath route to JC but if the defense hadn't backed off then why does JC need to wait until it's late in the 4th and behind before he decides to move the ball? Why didn't he do it all game? Why isn't the TOP lopsided in our offenses favor? The defense gave him more opportunities than the opposing defense did for their offense, yet they won the TOP, how is that our defenses fault? And if it is our defenses fault, how did we lose to a team who's defense failed their offense??????????????

[Gerald362]

BLC, you can not flame this defense all you want, but for the money spent on it, we should be throwing gasoline on it. For the money, this D should not even NEED the O to win games. It is totally unacceptable for this D to allow even one 80 yard DRIVE, much less 3. I am not saying that an abberation such as one big play is an issue, but to consistantly allow a team like the LIONS to continually mount long drives is horrible. If we had spent the same amount on the O that we have the D, I would be more willing to put the entire blame on the O with the results we have gotten, but the idea that we rebuilt this D and now have this to show for it is unacceptable. My thoughts after the offseason moves were that we have built a rock defense, and next year we do the same to the O. Now, we have to again rework the D, because despite what you think, the O needs time on the field to get into a rhythm. Sitting on the sidelines, while the D allows the potential for great field position to get eaten away is absurd.

I am not making light of the offensive problems, but there seemed to be a plan for rebuilding the TEAM watching this offseason. The plan appeared to build a championship D, then rebuild a matching O...........this sufficating D(on paper) is at best paper mache. This D(on paper), should be creating points. This D(on paper) should be putting the O in a position that even the ineptitude on O could score. None of these things are happening. Return on investment for the D vs the O.........the O is winning. They did not have the hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into the O.........the D did. A D that can not stop a third and 13 is not a great D.

I fully expected this season to be a coming out party for the D, leading us to hope that the FO could spend the same amount of time and energy rebuilding the O, but now, it will be the same old thing with talent farting around on one side, and not being able to rebuild anything because there will be so many holes to fill.

im not ready to flame this defense until i can see the offense produce anything even close to average. these guys have produced in the past, and one bad stat after 3 games is not enough for me to blame them.

watching this offense sputter around for almost the past year is just mind numbing at this point and i frankly feel bad for our defense.

[20April1980]

You do understand that JC has been putting up yds against the 2 worst teams in the league don't you?

You do understand that passing stats can easily distort the reality of a QB don't you?

How many insignificant completions are factored into JC's stats' date=' he has 2 garbage time drives and scores late in the game, that aside how many yds and completions does he have by checking the ball down on 3rd and long?

It amazes me how well JC drives the ball late in a game when we are down by 2 scores, yet when the game is on the line he just can't seem to move the ball the way defenses allow him to when they have lead, only when they decide to allow JC to burn clock does he make significant progress on offense.

You can cry all you want about how these defenses were not giving the underneath route to JC but if the defense hadn't backed off then why does JC need to wait until it's late in the 4th and behind before he decides to move the ball? Why didn't he do it all game? Why isn't the TOP lopsided in our offenses favor? The defense gave him more opportunities than the opposing defense did for their offense, yet they won the TOP, how is that our defenses fault? And if it is our defenses fault, how did we lose to a team who's defense failed their offense??????????????[/quote']

I am not the one blaming JC for the defenses collapse.

I also have no issue putting the blame where it lies, ON THE TEAM, not 1 guy or player.

Go ahead blame the 9th rated qb in the league this year, why not blame one of the worse rb's instead? How bout our crappy line? Receivers can't even run routes long enough to get a first down?

My point is we as a team lost and failed. And the only somewhat bright spot has been the passing game.

I am not going to argue against what the stats say.

offense

10th in passing

13th in yardage

24th in rushing

Lets blame JC not the inept running game which is really under performing after being 8th last year.

defense

32nd or dead last in 3rd downs

22nd against the rush

15th overall

22nd against the rush? dead last on 3rd downs. No reason to be objective about why we suck lets just blame JC for us letting the Rams and Lions have 100 yard rushers.

We suck as a team.

[RandyHolt]

How are they doing with opponent TOP?

+1 and I am sure our average start (vs our opponents avg start) would be atrocious if it werent for a bunch of horrible red zone calls of ours. The bend dont break doesnt play the field position game, regardless of the largely meaningless avg starting position stats this year. We never gun for destruction of an opponents aspirations. We are cautious to the point of guaranting giving up 16 per game to everyone and anyone, even a NOOB.

[Burgold]

The D hasn't been great, but the Offense is still the major problem. The pts avg per game is atrocious.

I keep hearing this. To me, based on what I've seen.. the points allowed is a mirage. Every opposing O has generated a hundred yard rusher and a probowl worthy qb. I can't buy that they've been Great, good, or average. I don't even think they've done well enough to merely be called bad

[20April1980]

I keep hearing this. To me, based on what I've seen.. the points allowed is a mirage. Every opposing O has generated a hundred yard rusher and a probowl worthy qb. I can't buy that they've been Great, good, or average. I don't even think they've done well enough to merely be called bad

exactly

2009 defense

22nd against the run

28th in top

32nd 3rd downs.

Our defense is just as much a problem as our offense. Nothing on this team has been great, good or avg lol. Piss poor is more like it. :hysterical:

[RandyHolt]

Tight man in these circles means a cheap dude

Press Coverage is all about Obama.

BAH i cant take it. Why dont we let our corners play aggressive? Landry deep is our deep ball deterrent. Our corners dont suck that bad?? Blache's schemes have allowed crappy noob one armed QB's to dominate us for years. Is Zorn brave enough to tell the stubborn GB to get off his arse and try and win a game for us by going for a shutout?

Our offense gets so few opportunties, and is always playing from behind.

[Laron Burgundy]

Honestly I hope Zorn gets rid of Blache and we find someone who is willing to be more aggressive. We are wasting our defensive talent by trying to bend and not break.

[SkinsFTW]

exactly

2009 defense

22nd against the run

28th in top

32nd 3rd downs.

Our defense is just as much a problem as our offense. Nothing on this team has been great, good or avg lol. Piss poor is more like it. :hysterical:

We've given up 20 to no team. We've scored 6 whole points in the first half of all 3 games total.

Put 21+ on the board one single time on offense and then tell me it's the defenses fault. Score 14 in the first half of any game, please.

The defense can't shut out every team when they know our offense is going to play to lose until the game is over.

:chair::chair: