Definately, D is the problem

[nookiebear]

So what we are saying is the whole team has problems

[20April1980]

So what we are saying is the whole team has problems

That is my assessment.

We have no running game and no ability to score right now.

And on D we can't stop anybody on 3rd down. Which means we can never get off the field.

We give up alot of long scoring drives. The defense can not make a stop.

We suck :doh: The coaches and players need to step up. We have the talent to be a top 5 defense. We knows this. We need to score more points as well.

It is all connected. We have regressed on defense. That can not be disputed.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Our offense is obviously partially responsible for the situation we're in, but when you let the Lions offense have multiple 80+ yard drives, you really gotta put more of the blame on the defense. It's kind of scary to think that we've got to deal with offenses that are completely better in the upcoming weeks.

They scored 19 points. The Rams scored 7. If we can't win those game, its the offense.

We also have to face teams with real defenses. Not the Rams and Lions. To blame the defense, the only reason we are remotely competitive, is absurd.

[HailYeah]

You just did...the powerhouse LIONS!!!

:evilg:

Imagine being such a joke that when you beat a team, now they're the joke.

I know, I know. I bit. :doh:

[myzhi]

What factors? How is 3rd down defense less important? So MAKING STOPS on 3rd down don't matter? :hysterical: They are 20 or worse in a number of stats. And DEAD LAST at 51% for 3rd down defense!!!!

They suck. They aint even avg. Avg would not be 32 of 32 teams on 3rd down defense. 28th in TOP.

They were no worse than 8th in any stat last year with a garbage offense.

We are now near the bottom. We got destroyed in the first half by the LIONS. 9/12 on 3rd down and 3 drives of over 70 yards by a rookie QB. 1 drive went 99 yards!!!!

The 0-19 Lions :hysterical:

Yes we suck it up on both sides of the ball right now.

Scoring D > 3rd conversion. There are plenty of games where teams with lower 3rd conversion still wins the game, but there sure hasn't been one game history where a team with lower score end up winning.

Rather have a team allow 5/6 per 3rd down conversion per drive with stopping the 1 on time when it counts, ie scoring territory, vs allowing 2/6 allowing TD.

Another thing, other teams have long drives. Why can't our O do same? It's not like we a getting less O possessions or facing Ravens D every week. That just might help our time of possession stat which people seem be obsess with.

[Passizle]

And we've scored 6 total points on offense in the first half of 3 games. Against garbage defenses. NY has a great DL that got no pressure on Campbell and we scored 0 on their 2nd string backfield.

Our defense would be great if we score 14 points in the first half of games. We don't and them holding the other team to almost no points is never taken advantage of. If we lead they can attack, we never lead. Also, knowing that your offense is an actual threat take the handcuffs off the bend but not break defense. Look at how we ended 05 and 07. We scored points, magically our defense got a ton of sacks and turnovers.

Our defense has give up 13, 7, and 13 to 16 to the Lions. Those are hard to match by our offense?

BTW, the Lions punted 6 times to our 5.

Your argument is terrifically weak. Our offense has had the ball for a little over 30 minutes combined in the first half of all three games. In the limited time we have had the ball, we have managed to get the 10 ranked passing offene in the league. Scoring is an issue, but for whatever reason we keep running in theredzone instead of passing despite having a good passing game.

On the other hand, the defense is ranked dead last is 3rd down stops and 18th in yards allowed (325 ypg). They are ranked 22nd against the run and 11th against the pass.

So why YOU think a QB change would "spark" this team is really out there. How about a defesive stop on 3rd and long. Hell... This team coul force a 3rd and 40 and I would still cringe at the snap because they let every other 3rd down survive.

[nookiebear]

I think the penalties we are giving up on crucial downs and the missed tackles are killing us as much as the D struggles on third downs and lack of offensive TDs

[20April1980]

Your argument is terrifically weak. Our offense has had the ball for a little over 30 minutes combined in the first half of all three games. In the limited time we have had the ball, we have managed to get the 10 ranked passing offene in the league. Scoring is an issue, but for whatever reason we keep running in theredzone instead of passing despite having a good passing game.

On the other hand, the defense is ranked dead last is 3rd down stops and 18th in yards allowed (325 ypg). They are ranked 22nd against the run and 11th against the pass.

So why YOU think a QB change would "spark" this team is really out there. How about a defesive stop on 3rd and long. Hell... This team coul force a 3rd and 40 and I would still cringe at the snap because they let every other 3rd down survive.

:applause:

We have had a sucky offense for years. We have won on the back of our defense.

But this year our defense has lost a damn wheel. 51% 3rd down defense. I still can not believe this number.

As I said before, we have stopped no one this year. Our 5th ranked scoring defense is a mirage. I think if the Lions or giants needed to score again to win it could have happened easily.

[SirClintonPortis]

Another thing, other teams have long drives. Why can't our O do same? It's not like we a getting less O possessions or facing Ravens D every week. That just might help our time of possession stat which people seem be obsess with.

We did have long drives against the Rams. The thing is that in keeping a long drive going is that you generally limit to playbook to more high percentage plays(shorter passes) and runs. If the D gets off the field fast reliably, it frees up Zorn to go deep more often not worry about the potential 3-and-out if low percentage plays don't work.

[Passizle]

but see this is where i think youre expecting too much. our D is never gonna embarrass anybody, were not built for that. ive already said we can blame blache for the scheme not working, but its worked before in the past at keeping the points low and not playing high risk/high reward defense.

Sorry, but spending 100+ million dollars to AH, DH and BO shows that the FO wanted a dominant defense. Not one that gets winded in thefirst half becasue they cant get off the field. We already knew what our offense was. The defense is te dissppointment.

[20April1980]

Scoring D > 3rd conversion. There are plenty of games where teams with lower 3rd conversion still wins, but there sure hasn't been one game history where a team with lower score end up winning.

Rather have a team allow 5/6 per 3rd down conversion per drive with stopping the 1 on time when it counts, ie scoring territory, vs allowing 2/6 allowing TD.

Another thing, other teams have long drives. Why can't our O do same? It's not like we a getting less O possessions or facing Ravens D every week. That just might help our time of possession stat which people seem be obsess with.

Fine

At the end of the Giants and Lions game both drove down on us to score the game winning points.

Giants game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

00:50 3 04:47 NYG 29 8 44 Field Goal

09:23 4 06:11 NYG 24 10 66 Field Goal

Lions Game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

09:10 4 03:44 DET 15 8 85 Touchdown

Our defense could not stop either team all day. And when they needed a score to end it they drove 60+ yards to get it.

Stop reading the best stat line you can find and actually look at what happened in the game. We could not make a stop!!!

[jkypoo]

The offense is allowed to hold onto the ball themselves. It's in the rulebook.

I'm not going to defend the defensive performance, but any problems on the team pale in comparison to the fact that the team struggles mightily to score points.

This is the problem that needs to be solved before any other problem. Because, if it isn't, the team is still going to struggle in every game.

I would agree that the priority is improving the offense, especially the scoring aspect, but only because that has been a problem for such a long time. If we weren't faced with years of offensive ineptitude, we all (including me) would probably be more concerned about the whole team.

That being said, there is no way the defense should allow those types of drives by the Lions. There is no excuse for the abysmal 3rd down percentage allowed. And even if Zorn screwed the pooch on accepting that 3rd down penalty, that was yet another 3rd and very long that the defense cannot allow. The other team cannot win the TOP battle if the defense doesn't allow it.

[fansince62]

Frankly, our defense isn't giving our offense a chance. They're not letting our o on the field.

Our O started with a nice time consuming drive that took the Lions to the 1 yard line. The D then allowed 90 yard drive after 90 yard drive. They don't stop anyone. That's unacceptable. You can't let the Lions and Rams drive on you like they're the Patriots with Brady. Yay! We kept them out of the endzone kind of, but we allowed them 20 plus minutes of posession in the first half.

Don't go on one stat. Our D is killing us. Our O is merely inept.

geez...you're asking the d to keep the opposition to under 2 TDs a game! I'd say what the H after a while also and think "you guys fix it...I'm done!".....

[myzhi]

Fine

At the end of the Giants and Lions game both drove down on us to score the game winning points.

Giants game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

00:50 3 04:47 NYG 29 8 44 Field Goal

09:23 4 06:11 NYG 24 10 66 Field Goal

Lions Game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

09:10 4 03:44 DET 15 8 85 Touchdown

Our defense could not stop either team all day. And when they needed a score to end it they drove 60+ yards to get it.

Stop reading the best stat line you can find and actually look at what happened in the game. We could not make a stop!!!

We held Giants to 6 pts (2FGs) in 2nd half and that's bad? Seems scoring only 7 pts in 1st half and being in the hole was more of an issue don't you think?

Detroit game, you expect D to hold teams to zero points starting 9 minutes mark left in 4th qtr? How many teams do that on a consistent bases? It's not like it's 2 minute with us protecting the lead. Like Giants game, scoring 0 pts in 1st half wasn't the bigger problem? Seems like common theme to me.

[fansince62]

I would agree that the priority is improving the offense, especially the scoring aspect, but only because that has been a problem for such a long time. If we weren't faced with years of offensive ineptitude, we all (including me) would probably be more concerned about the whole team.

That being said, there is no way the defense should allow those types of drives by the Lions. There is no excuse for the abysmal 3rd down percentage allowed. And even if Zorn screwed the pooch on accepting that 3rd down penalty, that was yet another 3rd and very long that the defense cannot allow. The other team cannot win the TOP battle if the defense doesn't allow it.

yes there is...after surrendering that 99 yard drive...what did the defense have to watch? an O that took it upon itself to motivate the team and carry it through on a day when the D was flat?....NOT. same ole same ole. a Defense can play intensely only so long - if it reconsiles itself to the fact that its O flat out stinks......it eventually becomes dispirited. not saying that is the primary problem in play....but I have no doubt it is a factor.

[jkypoo]

yes there is...after surrendering that 99 yard drive...what did the defense have to watch? an O that took it upon itself to motivate the team and carry it through on a day when the D was flat?....NOT. same ole same ole. a Defense can play intensely only so long - if it reconsiles itself to the fact that its O flat out stinks......it eventually becomes dispirited. not saying that is the primary problem in play....but I have no doubt it is a factor.

I don't see how anyone can excuse the defenses performance against the Lions simply because of the offenses performance. Regardless of what the offense did or didn't do, it is incumbent upon the defense to stop the other team, to force turnovers, to somehow get the ball back. They are trained and paid professionals with that being their sole responsibility. Boo-hoo if they feel dispirited, but there have been many a football game in the entirety of the NFL that has been one on the backs of defenses. Most of the players on our D have suffered through years of crappy offenses; They should know to expect this and play their role accordingly.

And how intensely did they play Sunday? For how long? Did they play with intensity on the Lions first drive? Second drive? Maybe the third? Hell, our offense did more that first half than or defense did, and that's saying something. That's really saying something.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

those of you saying "but the offense only had the ball for 20 something minutes": the offense is the reason they only had the ball for 20 something minutes. the defense didnt go take it from them, the offense is so terrible that the defense spends the whole game on the field.

again, we went across the lions 45 yard line twice until 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter. our first big drive, and the 3 play TD drive to moss. thats it. we usually stalled before the 50 yard line. the offense shoots itself in the face, and some of you wanna claim the defensive woes are on par.

no way.

[20April1980]

We held Giants to 6 pts (2FGs) in 2nd half and that's bad? Seems scoring only 7 pts in 1st half and being in the hole was more of an issue don't you think?

Detroit game, you expect D to hold teams to zero points starting 9 minutes mark left in 4th qtr? How many teams do that on a consistent bases? It's not like it's 2 minute with us protecting the lead. Like Giants game, scoring 0 pts in 1st half wasn't the bigger problem? Seems like common theme to me.

I think 3 consecutive drives of 70+ yards leading to 13 points hurt us more than our offense not scoring in the first half.

1 drive was 99 yards!!!!!!

[Never4get#21]

Our D isnt the problem.....Blache is the problem. We have the talent. We need another coach.

[myzhi]

I think 3 consecutive drives of 70+ yards leading to 13 points hurt us more than our offense not scoring in the first half.

1 drive was 99 yards!!!!!!

Why didn't we do the same? Long scoring drives. We in same boat. Our D sux. Lions D sux.

First, you didn't answer why giving up 6 pts to Giants 2nd half was bad thing? Guess, if we held them to ZERO. We win. Ooh wait, would be a tie game. Clearly, D's fault.

Secondly, do you expect our D to hold teams to ZERO pts after 9 min mark in 4th Qtr? If yes, name 1 team that has done it on a consistent bases? Hell, I'll give you even 50% of the time.

[20April1980]

Why didn't we do the same? Long scoring drives. We in same boat. Our D sux. Lions D sux.

First, you didn't answer why giving up 6 pts to Giants 2nd half was bad thing? Guess, if we held them to ZERO. We win. Ooh wait, would be a tie game. Clearly, D's fault.

Secondly, do you expect our D to hold teams to ZERO pts after 9 min mark in 4th Qtr? If yes, name 1 team that has done it on a consistent bases? Hell, I'll give you even 50% of the time.

Those 2 drives were over 18 plays and 40+ yards. Ate up 10 mins in time. Not to mention the first 3 drives of the game where the Giants drove on us.

We can not make stops. How many drives over 60 yards do we have to give up?

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

15:00 1 07:19 NYG 22 12 67 Field Goal

04:52 1 04:58 NYG 20 10 77 Downs

13:20 2 03:10 NYG 44 6 44 Touchdown

.

.

00:50 3 04:47 NYG 29 8 44 Field Goal

09:23 4 06:11 NYG 24 10 66 Field Goal

I expect our D to not give up 60+ yard drives in the 4th qtr

[jkypoo]

those of you saying "but the offense only had the ball for 20 something minutes": the offense is the reason they only had the ball for 20 something minutes. the defense didnt go take it from them, the offense is so terrible that the defense spends the whole game on the field.

again, we went across the lions 45 yard line twice until 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter. our first big drive, and the 3 play TD drive to moss. thats it. we usually stalled before the 50 yard line. the offense shoots itself in the face, and some of you wanna claim the defensive woes are on par.

no way.

While the defensive woes are not quite on par...

How is the defense giving up such long time consuming drives where the opponent routinely converts long third downs not, at the very least, a problem worth discussing? Just because our offense blows is no excuse for our defense not forcing a punt or a turnover. The fact that our offense is so terrible should be even more incentive for our D to step up.

[Burgold]

Our D isnt the problem.....Blache is the problem. We have the talent. We need another coach.

Sorry, but this is stupid.

Our D is Blatche's D. If the scheme is a problem and the players are failing within the scheme, then the D is a problem.

And give me a break about blaming the o. The O marched 70 yards down the field in the first possession got it to the three inch line and then the D completely folded. Repeatedly. Three huge, time draining, will sapping scoring drives. You don't think that hit the offense as well.

It took the team until the half to regroup. Suddenly, the O is doing okay in the second half. Scores some points. The Lions are happily burning away clock. Wait a minute! The O scores again and we're almost in a game! Lions nod to themselves and calmly breeze down the field for a touchdown.

The O was below average and acceptable.

The D was putrid and has been the entire year so far. They can get better. They should be better, but as it stands today they are amongst the worst defenses in the league. Why? Because they made the Lions and Rams look good on offense. Because they've given up a hundred yards on the ground every week. Because they can't make a stop and rot on first down. Only the sheer ineptness of the teams we were playing against kept the score down.

Defending last weeks defensive performance is just ridiculous. The D did nothing last week to earn your praise. Really, they've done little this year to earn it.

[20April1980]

Sorry, but this is stupid.

Our D is Blatche's D. If the scheme is a problem and the players are failing within the scheme, then the D is a problem.

And give me a break about blaming the o. The O marched 70 yards down the field in the first possession got it to the three inch line and then the D completely folded. Repeatedly. Three huge, time draining, will sapping scoring drives. You don't think that hit the offense as well.

It took the team until the half to regroup. Suddenly, the O is doing okay in the second half. Scores some points. The Lions are happily burning away clock. Wait a minute! The O scores again and we're almost in a game! Lions nod to themselves and calmly breeze down the field for a touchdown.

The O was below average and acceptable.

The D was putrid and has been the entire year so far. They can get better. They should be better, but as it stands today they are amongst the worst defenses in the league. Why? Because they made the Lions and Rams look good on offense. Because they've given up a hundred yards on the ground every week. Because they can't make a stop and rot on first down. Only the sheer ineptness of the teams we were playing against kept the score down.

Defending last weeks defensive performance is just ridiculous. The D did nothing last week to earn your praise. Really, they've done little this year to earn it.

Exactly. We can not stop them when it matters. They went 8 plays 85 yards for a td. Sickening

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

While the defensive woes are not quite on par...

How is the defense giving up such long time consuming drives where the opponent routinely converts long third downs not, at the very least, a problem worth discussing? Just because our offense blows is no excuse for our defense not forcing a punt or a turnover. The fact that our offense is so terrible should be even more incentive for our D to step up.

i think its worth discussing, i just think people are taking it too far. weve seen this defense execute before, we upgraded the talent, at this point it looks like we ran a ***** training camp and none of these guys are ready to play.

i have much more faith in our defense turning it around, and so far the lions game was the only legit glaring issue weve had. i expect a team like the giants to move the ball on us. and maybe stafford is good? i know the other two teams he faced crushed him, but im assuming they blitzed the bejesus out of him which is something our coordinator refuses to do, and we didnt, and stafford pwned us.