Definately, D is the problem

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Once again who is deflecting?

I am not here defending the offense. No matter how poor you say the offense is it does not ignore how poor our defense is playing, especially early in games.

Those are the facts.

An no the defenses job is more than keep the score low. It is to get the ball back for the offense.

didnt the defense end up giving the offense the ball 13 times?

[SonnyJ]

No

Our defense let a rookie qb go on 3 straight scoring drives of over 70 yards. We have given up 2 straight 100 yard rushing backs. We are dead last in defensive 3rd down pct.

It all matters.

Add that to our offense and it equaled a loss on Sunday. We are the sum of all our parts. We are a team.

So, you consider it unreasonable to expect our offense to score 21+ points against the Lions?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The very fact that you have to place an asterick on your comment is telling. Even in your staunchest defense, you need to rationalize. The D has not gotten it done. This D needs to dominate an opponent. It needs to humiliate a team like the lions and make a rookie qb look like someone other than Joe Montana.

The Lions turned it off in the second half because the game was theirs. They just played keep away. You know how I know? The moment we scored they casually easily marched down the field and scored a touchdown.

Our defense was as stout as a one ply toilet paper in a monsoon.

but see this is where i think youre expecting too much. our D is never gonna embarrass anybody, were not built for that. ive already said we can blame blache for the scheme not working, but its worked before in the past at keeping the points low and not playing high risk/high reward defense.

[RedskinDan0557]

um, if we had an offense that could move the ball the defense wouldnt be on the field at all.

Defense has to get them the ball first. Around we go.

On edit: Like I said previously there is a lack of synergy between the O and the D.

[Skins n' Bones]

The offense has been the bigger problem, BUT in this last game, it was the D that let down the most.

Zorn put faith in CP and the o-line to get 4th and 1, partially because he KNEW the Lions couldn't drive 99 yards against our D....they let him and us down....then did it again numerous times.

Yes, they aren't allowing a lot of points, but they can't get off the field which leaves our offense with less time to operate.

And how many turnovers did they force to give the offense a short field (or even score themselves)??? 0

[SirClintonPortis]

I do believe this D is utterly horrible in 3rd and long situations... A situation in which fans should be relaxing at the upcoming punt instead of being on edge EVERY STINKIN' time thinking "please don't give up the first, please don't give up the first".

Also, these long 60+ yd drives they give up basically PREVENTS the O from playing ANY sort of quick strike attack to come back. The O HAS to play ball control and sustain long, grinding drives to make up for the long, grinding drives the D gives up.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Defense has to get them the ball first. Around we go.

On edit: Like I said previously there is a lack of synergy between the O and the D.

the offense had the ball on 13 different possessions. they scored 14 points.

the defense was on the ball for 12 different possessions. they allowed 19 points.

its definitely a big circle, but the defense is holding teams points down, despite how ugly it is. the offense isnt scoring.

asking this defense to create turnovers and get the ball to the offense on short fields is unreasonable because we do not run a scheme that caters to that philosophy. blame the scheme, i wont argue. were going to give up long drives and allow field goals. thats our MO, has been for a long time. we got unlucky on the huge PI call and zorn making an idiot out of himself and allowing the lions another chance on 3rd AFTER the D had stopped them.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The offense has been the bigger problem' date=' BUT in this last game, it was the D that let down the most.

Zorn put faith in CP and the o-line to get 4th and 1, partially because he KNEW the Lions couldn't drive 99 yards against our D....they let him and us down....then did it again numerous times.

Yes, they aren't allowing a lot of points, but they can't get off the field which leaves our offense with less time to operate.

And how many turnovers did they force to give the offense a short field (or even score themselves)??? 0[/quote']

to be fair, zorn let the defense down by accepting a penalty that gave the lions another chance to convert on our defense.

an acceptance like that tells me zorn thinks our offense is so bad that he wont even concede a field goal after a 70 yard drive because he thinks we wont answer. lol

[Burgold]

It's the opposite, BLC. Taking the penalty shows that Zorn has confidence that our d can stop a 3rd and 13 which they should be able to do. If they do so (which statistically speaking they should most of the time) then punt and no damage. Zorn twice gave his team a vote of confidence and on both offense and defense he was let down.

[20April1980]

the offense had the ball on 13 different possessions. they scored 14 points.

the defense was on the ball for 12 different possessions. they allowed 19 points.

its definitely a big circle, but the defense is holding teams points down, despite how ugly it is. the offense isnt scoring.

asking this defense to create turnovers and get the ball to the offense on short fields is unreasonable because we do not run a scheme that caters to that philosophy. blame the scheme, i wont argue. were going to give up long drives and allow field goals. thats our MO, has been for a long time. we got unlucky on the huge PI call and zorn making an idiot out of himself and allowing the lions another chance on 3rd AFTER the D had stopped them.

They can't stop any one. We have stopped 1 team this year with our defense and that was the rams.

Regardless of how much we scored we could not stop the Lions or Giants.

If we scored 21 they would have scored 28. We made no 3rd down stops, we gave up long drives early in games. We let teams have long drives to put the game away.

This is why it is a team sport. Offense needs to score more. Defense needs to start making some stops.

It means we suck guys. wake up. We got owned on both sides of the ball by the Lions. Ignoring that will not make us winners

[myzhi]

We play the bend and not break plan which means giving up large amount of yardage, but holding teams to less points. Would people be more happy with something like giving up 30-35% 3rd conversion and 20+ points/game?

We had 13 possessions vs 12 for Lions. Last time I check of possession was calculated with team on O, shouldn't our times be similiar or better given we got more possessions? I know you'll say our D sux, but Lions D ain't good either.

[20April1980]

We play the bend and not break plan which means giving up large amount of yardage, but holding teams to less points. Would people be more happy with something like giving up 30-35% 3rd conversion and 20+ points/game?

We had 13 possessions vs 12 for Lions. Last time I check of possession was calculated with team on O, shouldn't our times be similiar or better given we got more possessions? I know you'll say our D sux, but Lions D ain't good either.

I would be happy with last years D

5th in scoring

4th in yrds

7th in 3rd pct of 36%!!!!!

5th in TOP!!!!!

We were no worse than 8th in a stat.

This year thru 3 games we are

5th in scoring

18th in yards

32nd or DEAD LAST in 3rd dwn pct with 51%

26th in TOP

22nd in pass def

22nd in rush def

I am in no way defending our offense. Our offense sucked last year as well. This is only about the performance of the D.

You see my point. Our defense is in big trouble.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

well 20april im not giving up on our defense yet. im completely 100% done with our offense in terms of expectations, but i think our D will be ok.

time will tell, but if you want last years defense, i think its still there, they just havent played as well.

[polywog999]

I think other teams don't have to score a lot of points against us. They are almost always playing with the lead, scoring seemingly at will. I have never witnessed a 99 yard drive, that is an almost impossible feat!

WE ARE HORRIBLE ON DEFENSE!!!! At time we can suck it up, but that is a sign of poor effort. Poor effort is symptomatic of improper motivation that screams out horrible coaching!

We could be so much better right now. This hurts. Ether we fix it, or we stay home for the PALoffs.

[20April1980]

And to be fair. This year and last years offense.

2008

19th in scoring

19th in yrds

26th in 3rd dwn pct at 36% Very poor for a offense

8th in top, this is due to our defense making stops on 3rd down. evidence of this is our own poor offensive stats flying in face of this. Like our pathetic 3rd down conversions on offense.

2009

28th in scoring

13th in yards

18th in 3rd dwn pct.

26th in top.

[20April1980]

well 20april im not giving up on our defense yet. im completely 100% done with our offense in terms of expectations, but i think our D will be ok.

time will tell, but if you want last years defense, i think its still there, they just havent played as well.

Where did I say I was giving up on either?

I am glad after 3 games you have given up on your team or I am sorry your offense.

Very sad.

[gca61087]

one stat i can't believe hasn't come up in this thread:

redskins offense vs. lions: 2/10 on third down.

god, why didn't we get the ball back to our offense so they could fail on third down against the miserable lions some more?

honestly, the defense hasn't played up to my expectations. i thought they would be a little more dominant. but bottom line is they are giving this team a chance to win games. if you hold teams under 20 points per game in the NFL, you are holding up your end of the bargain.

now granted, they are not getting it done in a dominant or even decent looking fashion. but all that matters is results, and the end result of our defensive performance has been above average.

on the other side of the ball, they move the ball well but fail when it matters most. yea that's great we are the "13th ranked offense" or whatever. those yards mean absolutely nothing if you can't score.

let's say you have a quarterback that goes 60/60 for 550 yards and zero touchdowns and his team loses because they put no points on the board. was that a good offensive performance? maybe you could make the argument, but points are all that really matters at the end of the day.

our offense is averaging fewer than 14 points per game. they have had the same number of possesions (give or take a few) as the teams we have played against, and have not performed as well as our opponents (with the exception of the rams, maybe). they have not held up their end of the bargain.

really, anyone putting blame on just one side of the ball is an idiot. its a team game and both sides are underperforming in my opinion.

that said though, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a successful team in the NFL if you only score 13 points per game. the offense is the unit playing well below the standard in terms of scoring. the losses are not completely their fault, but they are the worse of the two units at this time.

[20April1980]

one stat i can't believe hasn't come up in this thread:

redskins offense vs. lions: 2/10 on third down.

god, why didn't we get the ball back to our offense so they could fail on third down against the miserable lions some more?

honestly, the defense hasn't played up to my expectations. i thought they would be a little more dominant. but bottom line is they are giving this team a chance to win games. if you hold teams under 20 points per game in the NFL, you are holding up your end of the bargain.

now granted, they are not getting it done in a dominant or even decent looking fashion. but all that matters is results, and the end result of our defensive performance has been above average.

on the other side of the ball, they move the ball well but fail when it matters most. yea that's great we are the "13th ranked offense" or whatever. those yards mean absolutely nothing if you can't score.

let's say you have a quarterback that goes 60/60 for 550 yards and zero touchdowns and his team loses because they put no points on the board. was that a good offensive performance? maybe you could make the argument, but points are all that really matters at the end of the day.

our offense is averaging fewer than 14 points per game. they have had the same number of possesions (give or take a few) as the teams we have played against, and have not performed as well as our opponents (with the exception of the rams, maybe). they have not held up their end of the bargain.

really, anyone putting blame on just one side of the ball is an idiot. its a team game and both sides are underperforming in my opinion.

that said though, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a successful team in the NFL if you only score 13 points per game. the offense is the unit playing well below the standard in terms of scoring. the losses are not completely their fault, but they are the worse of the two units at this time.

Our O sucks and our D sucks. How you figure one unit is better than the other is beyond me.

They both are playing bad enough to lose us games. It is more complicated than saying look we only scored so many points etc.

The point is neither side can hold their heads up. We are almost dead last in scoring. We are dead last in defensive 3rd dwn pct.

We can't stop anybody and can't score to win a game.

We as a team need to get it together.

[Madison Redskin]

We play the bend and not break plan which means giving up large amount of yardage, but holding teams to less points. Would people be more happy with something like giving up 30-35% 3rd conversion and 20+ points/game?

After we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on Haynesworth and Hall and drafted Orakpo and others, I would expect our defense to be keeping teams to under 20 points per game and actually getting a bunch of turnovers, sacks, and 3&Outs. Right now, they're letting offensive powerhouses stay on the field for 35-40 minutes per game and drive the ball 80+ yards on a regular basis. Moreover, they're getting flagged for dumb penalties and whiffing on tackles left and right. It's just sloppy, sloppy football. If they keep playing like this, when we go against really good offenses, we're going to be in serious trouble.

[gca61087]

Our O sucks and our D sucks. How you figure one unit is better than the other is beyond me.

They both are playing bad enough to lose us games. It is more complicated than saying look we only scored so many points etc.

The point is neither side can hold their heads up. We are almost dead last in scoring. We are dead last in defensive 3rd dwn pct.

We can't stop anybody and can't score to win a game.

We as a team need to get it together.

can't stop anybody? if that were the case we'd be allowing 70+ points per game because teams would score touchdowns on all 10+ of their possesions.

oh wait....we do stop people. the lions punted more than the skins. the lions scored fewer than 20 points (which is an above average nfl performance for a defense).

the defense has problems on third down, yes. every team has a weakness. we sacrifice aggression and give cushion in exchange for not allowing teams to score points. i can live with that.

when living by this defensive philosophy, you are asking your offense to put up 20 points per game. thats it. that is a relatively low number in the nfl. and even with SUBSTANDARD expectations in terms of point production, the offense is failing to meet them.

[20April1980]

After we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on Haynesworth and Hall and drafted Orakpo and others, I would expect our defense to be keeping teams to under 20 points per game and actually getting a bunch of turnovers, sacks, and 3&Outs. Right now, they're letting offensive powerhouses stay on the field for 35-40 minutes per game and drive the ball 80+ yards on a regular basis. Moreover, they're getting flagged for dumb penalties and whiffing on tackles left and right. It's just sloppy, sloppy football. If they keep playing like this, when we go against really good offenses, we're going to be in serious trouble.

Exactly. The D is struggling against teams like the Lions :doh:

2008

10th in pen yard

5th in penalties called

2009

21st penalties yards

Tied for 17th in penalties called

[20April1980]

can't stop anybody? if that were the case we'd be allowing 70+ points per game because teams would score touchdowns on all 10+ of their possesions.

oh wait....we do stop people. the lions punted more than the skins. the lions scored fewer than 20 points (which is an above average nfl performance).

the defense has problems on third down, yes. every team has a weakness. we sacrifice aggression and give cushion in exchange for not allowing teams to score points. i can live with that.

when living by this defensive philosophy, you are asking your offense to put up 20 points per game. thats it. that is a relatively low number in the nfl. and even with SUBSTANDARD expectations in terms of point production, the offense is failing to meet them.

We are DEAD LAST in defensive 3rd downs. No offense will ever have a 100 percent 3rd down conversion rate. Good defenses hold teams to under 40 percent. That is called making a stop

We are DEAD LAST at 51% Facts!

Giants game 3rd down defense

6/13 or 46%

Lions game 3rd down defense

10/18 or 55%!!!!

In both the Lions and Giants games we gave up long scoring drives of 66 and 85 yards to put the game away in the 4th qtr.

Giants Game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

00:50 3 04:47 NYG 29 8 44 Field Goal 20-10 lead

09:23 4 06:11 NYG 24 10 66 Field Goal Made it a 23-10 lead

Lions game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

09:10 4 03:44 DET 15 8 85 Touchdown 19-7 lead

Our defense has not stopped but 1 team this year. We did not stop the Giants or Lions. These are the facts. We are a team.

And if you read all my posts you notice I never once said the Offense wasn't at fault. That does not ignore the failures of our defense. Especially in the Lions game early and late.

No excuse for this

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

15:00 1 03:51 DET 15 6 13 Punt

07:10 1 05:50 DET 1 12 99 Touchdown

13:56 2 05:26 DET 6 11 74 Field Goal

06:53 2 06:53 DET 6 18 86 Field Goal

The offense flat out sucks. Guess what? So does our defense

[gca61087]

We are DEAD LAST in defensive 3rd downs. No offense will ever have a 100 percent 3rd down conversion rate. Good defenses hold teams to under 40 percent. That is called making a stop

We are DEAD LAST at 51% Facts!

Giants game

6/13 or 46%

Lions game

10/18 or 55%!!!!

In both the Lions and Giants games we gave up long scoring drives of 66 and 85 yards to put the game away in the 4th qtr.

Giants Game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

00:50 3 04:47 NYG 29 8 44 Field Goal 20-10 lead

09:23 4 06:11 NYG 24 10 66 Field Goal Made it a 23-10 lead

Lions game

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

09:10 4 03:44 DET 15 8 85 Touchdown 19-7 lead

Our defense has not stopped but 1 team this year. We did not stop the Giants or Lions. These are the facts. We are a team.

And if you read all my posts you notice I never once said the Offense wasn't at fault. That does not ignore the failures of our defense. Especially in the Lions game early and late.

No excuse for this

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

15:00 1 03:51 DET 15 6 13 Punt

07:10 1 05:50 DET 1 12 99 Touchdown

13:56 2 05:26 DET 6 11 74 Field Goal

06:53 2 06:53 DET 6 18 86 Field Goal

The offense flat out sucks. Guess what? So does our defense

the defense does not suck. they are playing at an average level when you combine all the factors. good in scoring defense (MOST IMPORTANT), bad in third down defense (SLIGHTLY LESS IMPORTANT).

granted, i feel that they are underperforming, but they are playing well enough to win games. ask a team like the rams, chiefs, bucs or browns, who are consistently giving up close to 30 points per week if they would like a defense that could keep teams from scoring on them. guarantee they'd take it. at that point, the expectations for your offense have rise so high that it is hard to compete.

look, if the offense was holding up their end of the bargain and putting up 20 points per game, this wouldn't even be a discussion. WOULD NOT BE A DISCUSSION because we would be 2-1 or 3-0 and look like a decent football team.

[skinsfan1523]

You just don't like vanilla!!!

:banhim:

[20April1980]

the defense does not suck. they are playing at an average level when you combine all the factors. good in scoring defense (MOST IMPORTANT), bad in third down defense (SLIGHTLY LESS IMPORTANT).

granted, i feel that they are underperforming, but they are playing well enough to win games. ask a team like the rams, chiefs, bucs or browns, who are consistently giving up close to 30 points per week if they would like a defense that could keep teams from scoring on them. guarantee they'd take it. at that point, the expectations for your offense have rise so high that it is hard to compete.

look, if the offense was holding up their end of the bargain and putting up 20 points per game, this wouldn't even be a discussion. WOULD NOT BE A DISCUSSION because we would be 2-1 or 3-0 and look like a decent football team.

What factors? How is 3rd down defense less important? So MAKING STOPS on 3rd down don't matter? :hysterical: They are 20 or worse in a number of stats. And DEAD LAST at 51% for 3rd down defense!!!!

They suck. They aint even avg. Avg would not be 32 of 32 teams on 3rd down defense. 28th in TOP.

They were no worse than 8th in any stat last year with a garbage offense.

We are now near the bottom. We got destroyed in the first half by the LIONS. 9/12 on 3rd down and 3 drives of over 70 yards by a rookie QB. 1 drive went 99 yards!!!!

The 0-19 Lions :hysterical:

Yes we suck it up on both sides of the ball right now.