Definately, D is the problem

[SkinsFTW]

:hysterical:

So the defense respond tot he offenses 75 yard drive by letting the Lions go 99 yards and score a TD?

Wow.4 years of our defense being top 10 and our offense being sub par and now the defense got fed up?

Pay 60 million to add a corner and fat albert, use our picks for defensive guys and you think it is perfectly ok for the revamped #4 defense from last year to play poorly because the offense is struggling?

You make no sense. Your comments infact are getting crazier and crazier.

I was totally against paying Hall/Haynesworth but if you don't see that the offense having their best drive of the year to start the Lions game, and still got 0 points, effecting the defense then OK. You just don't get it, that's cool. They still didn't give up 20 points in the game.

Did we replicate that drive at any time later in the game?

I didn't think so.

So now you want to talk about facts. We've already done that. If we score 20 on offense in these games without the offense giving away TD's before they score one, we are 3-0.

20 points. What other team hasn't scored 20 in a game this year?

0-3 Tampa Bay has twice.

0-3 Cleveland did once.

0-3 Kansas City did once.

1-2 Oakland did once.

0-3 Miami did once.

0-3 Carolina did once.

0-3 Tennessee scored 31 and still lost.

0-3 St. Louis has not. They scored 17 on Green Bay though, just like we did the week our Punter scored a TD and we got a garbage time TD on the Giants. We'd be 0-3 too if our defense was Green Bay's. Is this pathetic enough? We are 1 of 2 teams to not score 20 yet and our defense would be 3-0 on 25+ teams in the league.

Our offense is garbage and the defense knows it.

Compare our offensive talent including QB to Tampa, Cleveland, Kansas City, Oakland, Miami, Carolina, Tennessee and St Louis. We are 1-2 and would be a badly beaten 0-3 with any of those defenses. Remember, all of those teams have scored 20 at least once except the Rams. Our offense has scored 10,9,14. Take out garbage time when we were down by 2 scores and they really only scored 3,9,7 in the first 3.5 quarters.

That's not garbage. It's worse than garbage.

Our defense has given up fewer points than 30 of 32 teams in the league.

[Mordac]

Wow. What a thread. So what have learned?

We have learned that Lions fans don't even remember how to troll another teams board.

We have learned that our offense and our defense suck. In fact, if sucking was a competition, it would be hard to tell who was winning right now.

Guys, we were down 17-0 to the Giants and 13-0 to the Lions. Heck, we were losing to the Rams at home. That's bad. I don't know who's worse, but I know they're both bad. But its also not too late to fix it.

[RandyHolt]

Defense can win games. But not when the DC conceeds points and field position game after game. Just like he tightens up when they get in our red zone, they still sometimes score touchdowns. Its no difference doing it at their twenty. Sometimes they will score touchdowns. Their stars get paid, too.

Why not give as many reps and opps as possible to our offense to get then untracked? Help them out? There is no coordination among the sides of the ball. Zorn is afraid of Blache. Probably a condition of his employment,"you are a noob, you dont touch the D. "

[Sekhmet728]

I just think that this last game is a sign of the defense starting to get frustrated with the offense doing nothing. If it was one game where the offense sucks, the defense could make up the difference. When it's every single game that the offense refuses to score, gives away 3 by going for it and then fails on 4th down, then the HC, the offenses guy, gives the other team more time to score again by refusing a 4th down. I just think some of those guys are tired of it. We will start to give up more and more points too.

The opponent game plans around all this as well. If they know we can't score they can call any play whenever they want the entire game. When we are a threat to put up 30 points on them they will pass the ball, we will get more sacks and turnovers. That is why the defense in 05 went from OK to great at the end of the year. If you don't have that offensive threat it makes the defense worse.

Can I please see your degree in psychology? Because that's the only way your argument will be viewed as remotely legitimate.

[20April1980]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/30/upon-further-review-64816973/

Detroit's 18-play drive to finish the first half was the longest allowed in Greg Blache's 19-game tenure as defensive play-caller. The Redskins' defense has been on the field for three 10-plus play drives in each of the first three games. That happened only once last year (Week 1 at the Giants).

Facts, just the facts!!!!

[MustangSteve]

Although I would agree that our D has played worse then last year, I can't pin the Lions lose on them because our offense has no business scoring under 24 points against that team and many others.

Our D has carried us for many years and it's time for this offense to step up and put points on the board. Hogging the ball and owning the clock wouldn't hurt either, our D could use a break once in a while.

I expect our D to get it together, our offense could, but not with that 3rd string QB running it.

[SkinsFTW]

Can I please see your degree in psychology? Because that's the only way your argument will be viewed as remotely legitimate.

Sure, right after you give me a copy of your degree in idiocy.

It's hard, I know, to score 20 points, 30 teams have done it at least once. 7 teams are 0-3 and we aren't one of them but we are 1 of the 2 who hasn't scored 20.

One more time, for you, our defense gave up 13,7,13. Maybe 16 in the last game if they make a 50+ field goal. That's hard to match on offense, right? 33 points in 3 games is hard to keep up with.

:hysterical::laugh::silly:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/30/upon-further-review-64816973/

Detroit's 18-play drive to finish the first half was the longest allowed in Greg Blache's 19-game tenure as defensive play-caller. The Redskins' defense has been on the field for three 10-plus play drives in each of the first three games. That happened only once last year (Week 1 at the Giants).

Facts, just the facts!!!!

our D is not playing up to par. it needs to change and i think it will change. im sticking to my original point that although theyre giving up yards, theyre stopping teams from scoring, which is the overall objective of a defense.

[20April1980]

Although I would agree that our D has played worse then last year, I can't pin the Lions lose on them because our offense has no business scoring under 24 points against that team and many others.

Our D has carried us for many years and it's time for this offense to step up and put points on the board. Hogging the ball and owning the clock wouldn't hurt either, our D could use a break once in a while.

I expect our D to get it together, our offense could, but not with that 3rd string QB running it.

We are a team. The offense does not expect the defense to give up 10 points before the offense gets to touch the ball 3 times. Which happened in both losses.

Which is hwy I have said both sides of the ball played bad enough to loses us that game.

[20April1980]

our D is not playing up to par. it needs to change and i think it will change. im sticking to my original point that although theyre giving up yards, theyre stopping teams from scoring, which is the overall objective of a defense.

We discussed this. The defense has put the offense in a whole in the first half every loss.

"Of course, by the definition of some, garbage time extends to the second quarter, once the Redskins defense puts the offense in a 10-0 hole before Jason Campbell's third possession. The Redskins have been down 10-0 in the second quarter of both losses"

http://redskinshogheaven.com/2009/09...september.html

In both losses the defense has come out flat regrouped at half for the 3rd and than folded in the 4th.

Facts. We are struggling on both sides of the ball.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

We are a team. The offense does not expect the defense to give up 10 points before the offense gets to touch the ball 3 times. Which happened in both losses.

Which is hwy I have said both sides of the ball played bad enough to loses us that game.

honest question, do you really feel a 10 point deficit that early in the game is a big deal? even after the offense has had multiple opportunities by that point and failed to score?

[20April1980]

honest question, do you really feel a 10 point deficit that early in the game is a big deal? even after the offense has had multiple opportunities by that point and failed to score?

It is when it is paired with long 10+ play drives that eat up all the clock so we never get on the field offensively

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

15:00 1 07:19 NYG 22 12 67 Field Goal

04:52 1 04:58 NYG 20 10 77 Downs

13:20 2 03:10 NYG 44 6 44 Touchdown

The Giants scored 10 points by the end of the 1st qtr and had the ball Almost all of the qtr!!!! They had a 10 and a 12 play drive!!!!

START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT

15:00 1 03:51 DET 15 6 13 Punt

07:10 1 05:50 DET 1 12 99 Touchdown

13:56 2 05:26 DET 6 11 74 Field Goal

06:53 2 06:53 DET 6 18 86 Field Goal

Lions had a 13-0 lead from a 12, 11, and 18 play drive. They had the ball over 13 mins from the 1st to second qtr as they took a 10 point lead. Than went on a 18 play 86 yard drive to take a 13-0 lead.

We fail as a team BLC. And we been stinking it up all over the field on both sides of the ball.

[21forlyfe]

Let our defense gets some damn THREE AND OUTS and maybe we will see a more productive O....How many times have we seen the offense driving then somthing stupid happens like players drop passes,fumble,don't block,get stopped short of the first,ect...It always happens on our best drive,qwhen we look like we got into a groove...we punt and then the offense doesnt get the ball back..intill like 12 minutes later...Just for once i would like to see us in a groove get stopped and get the ball right back three play later...not 10 min later

[Fat Stupid Loser]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=6826824&postcount=284

Would be nice if the defense would stop putting the offense in the hole

:doh:

This is the NFL. Offenses score 10 points a half on a routine normal half of football on the best of defenses. If our offense could score at all that would be meaningless. No one has scored more than 19 points on us all year. And the Giants are the best team in football. Its widely known and accepted, until now, that the offense drives, uses the clock and then SCORES. That keeps the D off the field, so that when they play they aren't exhausted and can hold good pro offenses to scores that can be outscored.

Only in the desperate world of Redskins fandom is the argument made that failing consistantly to score 14 points a game is the defenses fault. Its absurd.:hysterical:

[20April1980]

:doh:

This is the NFL. Offenses score 10 points a half on a routine normal half of football on the best of defenses. If our offense could score at all that would be meaningless. No one has scored more than 19 points on us all year. And the Giants are the best team in football. Its widely known and accepted, until now, that the offense drives, uses the clock and then SCORES. That keeps the D off the field, so that when they play they aren't exhausted and can hold good pro offenses to scores that can be outscored.

Only in the desperate world of Redskins fandom is the argument made that failing consistantly to score 14 points a game is the defenses fault. Its absurd.:hysterical:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/30/upon-further-review-64816973/

Detroit's 18-play drive to finish the first half was the longest allowed in Greg Blache's 19-game tenure as defensive play-caller. The Redskins' defense has been on the field for three 10-plus play drives in each of the first three games. That happened only once last year (Week 1 at the Giants).

It is not the points, It is the fact that we start out behind casue our defense can't make a stop.

I like facts. Something we did once last year we have done defensively 3 times in our first 3 games. That is a issue.

Notice I never said the offense was free of blame as well. We suck on both sides of the ball

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

20april has made some good points, this team sucks overall. both sides of the ball are failing.

not much else to say at this point. lol.

[20April1980]

20april has made some good points, this team sucks overall. both sides of the ball are failing.

not much else to say at this point. lol.

Exactly :applause::applause:

[gca61087]

honest question, do you really feel a 10 point deficit that early in the game is a big deal? even after the offense has had multiple opportunities by that point and failed to score?

if you have a half decent offense, say, like the minnesota vikings, then no it isn't. maybe you could even score 27 points in a row!

scoring 27 points against the lions....what a concept!

[Sekhmet728]

Sure, right after you give me a copy of your degree in idiocy.

It's hard, I know, to score 20 points, 30 teams have done it at least once. 7 teams are 0-3 and we aren't one of them but we are 1 of the 2 who hasn't scored 20.

One more time, for you, our defense gave up 13,7,13. Maybe 16 in the last game if they make a 50+ field goal. That's hard to match on offense, right? 33 points in 3 games is hard to keep up with.

:hysterical::laugh::silly:

I know this is hard for you to grasp, so I'll repeat myself. If the defense causes ONE turnover and or pins the Lions back in their own territory just once, giving us better field position, and we score a field goal off of it, we get the 20 points you want.

Do you think the Vikings offense was solely responsible for the 27 points scored against the Lions? 14 of their points came off turnovers committed by the Lions. If they didn't have those points, guess what? They end up scoring only 13 points.

See? Not every team in the NFL relies solely on their offense to score points, in fact most of them do not. Defense helps score points too. I hope you understand that.

[gca61087]

See? Not every team in the NFL relies solely on their offense to score points, in fact most of them do not. Defense helps score points too. I hope you understand that.

i agree fully, but lets look at the game where our defense helped keep the ball in our offense's hands.

despite dominating TOP, they scored 9 freakin points. we almost lost despite the defense allowing 7 points and both sides controlling the ball!

THAT is the equivalent of what we have seen from the offense this year. THAT is unacceptable. THAT is why we are losing games.

[Sekhmet728]

i agree fully, but lets look at the game where our defense helped keep the ball in our offense's hands.

despite dominating TOP, they scored 9 freakin points. we almost lost despite the defense allowing 7 points and both sides controlling the ball!

THAT is the equivalent of what we have seen from the offense this year. THAT is unacceptable. THAT is why we are losing games.

Yes, but the thread is about how the defense is performing. Everyone agrees that the offense's play is unacceptable. We're just debating whether defense is a serious problem. After what I saw against the Lions, I'd say it is.

[gca61087]

Yes, but the thread is about how the defense is performing. Everyone agrees that the offense's play is unacceptable. We're just debating whether defense is a serious problem. After what I saw against the Lions, I'd say it is.

i guess it has shifted from the OP. because the OP was definitely dripping in sarcasm, and seemed to be more directed at how horrible the offense is.

[Rufus T Firefly]

i agree fully, but lets look at the game where our defense helped keep the ball in our offense's hands.

despite dominating TOP, they scored 9 freakin points. we almost lost despite the defense allowing 7 points and both sides controlling the ball!

THAT is the equivalent of what we have seen from the offense this year. THAT is unacceptable. THAT is why we are losing games.

To say the defense kept the ball in the offense's hands in that game is just wrong.

The offense kept the ball for 4:22 per possession in that game. The Rams' offense kept the ball for 3:08 per possession. To put that in perspective, over the last 8 years (this is the best chart I could find on these numbers), the best team in the NFL at holding the ball was the Colts at just under 2:56 per drive. The worst defense in the league at TOP was the Jets at 2:54.5 per drive:

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/4/14/834798/finding-the-winning-factors-time

In other words, the offense held the ball at a rate that was 'off the charts' good, while the defense is being kept on the field at a rate that would make them the worst in the league.

And then you have the field position battle. The Rams average starting field position was their 24 yard line. Washington's was their 17 yard line. So, the offense was winning the field position battle all game, while the defense was busy losing it.

To be clear, the offense not scoring points is problem numero uno on this team right now. To say otherwise would be foolish. But in terms of TOP and field position, the offense is helping the defense out, while the defense is actively hurting the offense. The Rams game was the worst example of this.

[21forlyfe]

To say the defense kept the ball in the offense's hands in that game is just wrong.

The offense kept the ball for 4:22 per possession in that game. The Rams' offense kept the ball for 3:08 per possession. To put that in perspective, over the last 8 years (this is the best chart I could find on these numbers), the best team in the NFL at holding the ball was the Colts at just under 2:56 per drive. The worst defense in the league at TOP was the Jets at 2:54.5 per drive:

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/4/14/834798/finding-the-winning-factors-time

In other words, the offense held the ball at a rate that was 'off the charts' good, while the defense is being kept on the field at a rate that would make them the worst in the league.

And then you have the field position battle. The Rams average starting field position was their 24 yard line. Washington's was their 17 yard line. So, the offense was winning the field position battle all game, while the defense was busy losing it.

To be clear, the offense not scoring points is problem numero uno on this team right now. To say otherwise would be foolish. But in terms of TOP and field position, the offense is helping the defense out, while the defense is actively hurting the offense. The Rams game was the worst example of this.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:The Lions started off at the goal line:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

and marched down the field ..to score

[21forlyfe]

I know this is hard for you to grasp, so I'll repeat myself. If the defense causes ONE turnover and or pins the Lions back in their own territory just once, giving us better field position, and we score a field goal off of it, we get the 20 points you want.

Do you think the Vikings offense was solely responsible for the 27 points scored against the Lions? 14 of their points came off turnovers committed by the Lions. If they didn't have those points, guess what? They end up scoring only 13 points.

See? Not every team in the NFL relies solely on their offense to score points, in fact most of them do not. Defense helps score points too. I hope you understand that.

You Are right..People cant grasp that FootBall is the true definition of TEAM sports..Every person,player,ect.Is important..Thats why i Laugh when people say things like CP is adverage or DT,Kelly,Davis are bust...lls The reason its funny to me is ...obviously they are not watching the team .I agree with you...The defense being Agressive and UP TO DATE would have beat the Lions alone....Takeovers are huge...Sacks are Major:doh: