WaPo: Once Again, A Public Trust In Jeopardy

[tshile]

you know whats funny?

is if the skins win teh superbowl this year, everyone will want tickets, and then ****a bout the waiting list that (according to the same people today) doesn't exist.

i'd love to see it

[RFKFedEx]

he removed GA seats from the pool (in some cases by revoking season ticket rights from certain long time holders who sold them in the secondary market) , can no longer sell them as premium, and instead of turning them back into GA seats the skins are selling to brokers or on stub hub directly (and not giving them as upgrades or to people on the waitlist).if he tries to raise prices, he will lose even more season ticketholders.

I'm not saying that it and can't, didn't, or never will happen...

but as far as revoking LL seats from longtime GAs, we've read about it supposedly happening for years. However, I've never even once read of someone who actually claimed it happened to them. It's always someone who knows of someone it allegedly happened to. Same with ST revocation for poor fan conduct.

I do agree that a lot of LL seats have been removed from the GA pool since the Snyder era began. However, other than the WP seats that were revoked a few years back, I think most the LL premiums today were vacated by GAs leftover from the RFK era.

If the TO was really in the business of revoking prime LL GAs to convert into premiums, they wouldn't have been offering extra LL GAs to everyone in the lower level, they way they did this year.

Just my:2cents: Not saying its fact.

[Diesel Hog]

How? Our record is awful and people hate the owner because of **** like this. Find me other cities where this happens.

Is it heavy on the opinion? Yes. Is it light on the facts? No.

And who cares if he's not the worst ever? That doesn't mean anything. If we went 1-15, then would you comfort yourself by saying, "Oh, at least we're not 0-16!" ? No. You'd be pissed off because we deserve better.

Snyder has failed for ten years and is throwing away the only thing that this franchise could ever hang its hat on: Its ethics with the fans.

:applause: I agree.

[dexter's manley]

you know whats funny?

is if the skins win teh superbowl this year, everyone will want tickets, and then ****a bout the waiting list that (according to the same people today) doesn't exist.

i'd love to see it

Yeahhhhhhhh, i don't think we're going to have to worry about this scenario happening...for about the next 25-50 years.

[Mark The Homer]

I am asking this question seriously, because I honestly don't know. I don't live in the DC area, so I was only able to start reading WaPost online until around the start of the Snyder era. How did the post and Boswell treat the skins before Snyder?

...

Jack Kent Cooke was as fine an owner as a sports team ever had. In an era where all these aforementioned schmoes are hands-on, Cooke was hands-off. For all his money, for all his obvious infatuation with stardom (he loved stars; he gloried in having Wilt, West and Baylor in L.A. when he owned the Lakers, and Riggo, Theismann and Monk here), Cooke didn't interfere with the day-to-day operation. He hired coaches and general managers, and for the most part he stuck with them. Before the salary cap he opened his wallet as wide as the Mississippi, and he would have done it again without hesitation. He wanted only one thing from his team — excellence. And he was willing to put his money up, and keep his mouth shut, for it. Those three silver Super Bowl trophies speak to the wisdom of his method.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/history/cooke/articles/tk7.htm

[Monte51Coleman]

Well, the sale of the seats to brokers wasn't sanctioned by the team and people were fired.

1. How do you know the sale of seats to brokers wasn't sanctioned by the team? Because a team attorney said so?

2. How do you know the supposed offenders were fired?

Redskins General Counsel David Donovan said the prohibited sales were discovered in the spring during an internal audit of last season's ticket contracts and involved about 15 ticket brokering companies. He said the ticket sales employees involved were disciplined. He declined to name the employees or specify the discipline because it was a personnel matter.

[tshile]

Yeahhhhhhhh' date=' i don't think we're going to have to worry about this scenario happening...for about the next 25-50 years.[/quote']

i think we're as close as we've been since gibbs first left the redskins.

there's a lot of talent on the team... what sucks is its litterally a matter of people staying healthy. if this team isn't good this year, its going to be to a lack fo quality backups.

[RFKFedEx]

1. How do you know the sale of seats to brokers wasn't sanctioned by the team? Because a team attorney said so?

Well for one, attorneys are honest people. And two, the TO is not a part of the team. Looks like you have no choice but to believe them.

:laugh:

[Destino]

people can complain about the Post having an axe to grind don't really take away from the story at all. Just because someone is mad at you doesn't mean that what they dig up isn't true. It just means their reasons for digging it up are that they are mad at you. In this case an owner decided to take on the media, and frankly the tiny moron should have known better. Maybe he'll buy them too.

As for the ticket story the only thing I get out of it is that the ticket office is a mess and it's very obviously mismanaged. Radio stations and this forum are FULL of stories of conflicting offers and useless sales people. You can say the post as an axe to grind but the fact is the Post isn't the most convincing evidence of how poorly run the ticket office is... the fans are. You can't waive off a day full of phone calls and more than a few posts detailing the complete stupidity going on over there. And much of this is AFTER they let almost the entire staff go and started from scratch, a move that on it's own is a sign of terrible management.

What I take from all this is utter disregard for fan and a team that doesn't seem to be well managed on any level. If fans could fire Snyder his fans on here wouldn't have a chance at stopping it from happening. Hopefully the little idiot will go bankrupt from his other terribly run businesses and sell the team.

[@DCGoldPants]

Jack Kent Cooke was as fine an owner as a sports team ever had. In an era where all these aforementioned schmoes are hands-on, Cooke was hands-off. For all his money, for all his obvious infatuation with stardom (he loved stars; he gloried in having Wilt, West and Baylor in L.A. when he owned the Lakers, and Riggo, Theismann and Monk here), Cooke didn't interfere with the day-to-day operation. He hired coaches and general managers, and for the most part he stuck with them. Before the salary cap he opened his wallet as wide as the Mississippi, and he would have done it again without hesitation. He wanted only one thing from his team — excellence. And he was willing to put his money up, and keep his mouth shut, for it. Those three silver Super Bowl trophies speak to the wisdom of his method.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/history/cooke/articles/tk7.htm

before the Skins, Cooke had experience owning pro sports teams. He also was smart enough to get a strong GM who new that sport. Vinny is no Bobby B. He's actually no Charlie either. He's just not.

[Monte51Coleman]

Well for one, attorneys are honest people. And two, the TO is not a part of the team. Looks like you have no choice but to believe them.

:laugh:

lol ;) :yes::yes:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1. How do you know the sale of seats to brokers wasn't sanctioned by the team? Because a team attorney said so?

2. How do you know the supposed offenders were fired?

Redskins General Counsel David Donovan said the prohibited sales were discovered in the spring during an internal audit of last season's ticket contracts and involved about 15 ticket brokering companies. He said the ticket sales employees involved were disciplined. He declined to name the employees or specify the discipline because it was a personnel matter.

1. Yes.

2. On the radio he mentioned that some were fired.

If we don't believe official statements by the team, why would we automatically believe everything in the paper?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

lol ;) :yes::yes:

Yeah, it was a funny joke. But all kidding aside, if fans are just going to dismiss what the team says in its defense, what else can it really do?

Many on this board say "Let's see what Snyder says about this" a lot. However, when the team does explain these one-sided stories, it's just assumed that they are lying.

It's a lose-lose situation for the Redskins.

The same thing happened with the tailgating thing. The policy was leaked, we had about 100 pages of complaints, the official policy came out and was far more reasonable, and everyone assumed that they revised the original policy in the span of a few hours.

[elkabong82]

What I take from all this is utter disregard for fan and a team that doesn't seem to be well managed on any level. If fans could fire Snyder his fans on here wouldn't have a chance at stopping it from happening. Hopefully the little idiot will go bankrupt from his other terribly run businesses and sell the team.

What I've taken away from all this is the Post still has an axe to grind, and isn't above runing good investigative journalism by misrepresenting facts.

What facts you ask?

1) Purposely mixing GA and premium tickets together to make more of a story. The people that were sued had premium seats with contracts. Those seats are not part of the "160K" waiting list. Didn't stop Boswell and the other Post articles from lumping them together. No GA ticket holder has ever been sued by the Redskins for the reasons why the premium holders were. This is by far the most egregious, as people are still posting on here mimicking the Post and not realizing the differences between premium and GA tickets.

2) Trying to portray the image that suing fans is "business as usual" for evil Snyder. The fact is, it's been 125 premium seat holders over a 5 year period. 25 people a year. The Post didn;t bother to say how many were individuals, how many were companies, and just how many of these people sued had default judgments against them for not showing up in court.

3) The Post puts the old lady front and center, with her picture up on the page. Yet only casually mentions the Skins offered her a payment plan, and she didn;t talk to them nor did she even bother to show up in court. She gave away a bunch of money before settling her obligations.

4) One former suite owner had his judgment reduced because the suite was resold. The Post never mentions whether or not anyone else's judgments were reduced. Of course the Post also doesn't mention that those who don;t show up to court get default judgments, and that may mean that their judgments aren't reduced if tickets are resold.

5) The Post acting like judgment = money, when they don't.

6) Acting like suing fans is something most NFL teams never do, when in fact it's only 9 or so. Using an apples to oranges comparison by bringing up the Caps.

7) Acting like the Post has never sued somebody for backing out of a contract/nonpayment.

I could go on, but I believe this is enough. Yes, just because someone has a grudge doesn't make the faults they bring up in another untrue. However, misrepresenting facts to further an agenda does make the faults nowhere near as terrible as the Post asserts.

However, given the last line in your post about how Snyder is a little idiot and you hope he goes bankrupt, just shows me you were going to agree with the Post no matter what, so long as they took a negative slant against Snyder. Nevermind the negative impact against all the charities that would incur if Snyder went bankrupt, let's just get him outta here because you can't stand a perpetuated image of him. Oh, and let's make sure to make fun of his height and stereotype him while were at it!

[Monte51Coleman]

1. Yes.

2. On the radio he mentioned that some were fired.

If we don't believe official statements by the team, why would we automatically believe everything in the paper?

Because as an intelligent and reasonable adult I don't believe everything I read or that a paid agent of an organization says.

I haven't said I believe either of the two sides. I just wonder why you seem to do so unconditionally.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Because as an intelligent and reasonable adult I don't believe everything I read or that a paid agent of an organization says.

I haven't said I believe either of the two sides. I just wonder why you seem to do so unconditionally.

I wouldn't call it unconditionally. I just listened to the interview and thought about it myself. The people in the ticket office probably work on commission and I know plenty of salespeople. It wouldn't be ridiculous to assume that they took some matters into their own hands to sweeten some deals and make some money. I know...only evil NFL franchises do immoral things.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt especially when they are attacked. It's just in my nature. I've never been one to hear a few random rumors and jump at the chance to string someone up. That gang mentality just seems too reactive to me.

[elkabong82]

Jack Kent Cooke was as fine an owner as a sports team ever had. In an era where all these aforementioned schmoes are hands-on, Cooke was hands-off. For all his money, for all his obvious infatuation with stardom (he loved stars; he gloried in having Wilt, West and Baylor in L.A. when he owned the Lakers, and Riggo, Theismann and Monk here), Cooke didn't interfere with the day-to-day operation. He hired coaches and general managers, and for the most part he stuck with them. Before the salary cap he opened his wallet as wide as the Mississippi, and he would have done it again without hesitation. He wanted only one thing from his team — excellence. And he was willing to put his money up, and keep his mouth shut, for it. Those three silver Super Bowl trophies speak to the wisdom of his method.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/history/cooke/articles/tk7.htm

Ahh, revisionist history at its best. Gibbs has said in many interviews that Cooke would get in his face from time to time. I've even seen fans on here who reminisced about it and applauded Cooke for being upfront. Gibbs even mentions this stuff in the "America's Game" series, where he was talking about how Cooke came to him and said "you need to fix this". I believe Cooke was also not to pleased with Rypien for a while before the '91 season started, and was public about that. So I don't agree with the Post's assertion that he "kept his mouth shut."

[Monte51Coleman]

The people in the ticket office probably work on commission and I know plenty of salespeople. It wouldn't be ridiculous to assume that they took some matters into their own hands to sweeten some deals and make some money.

I agree that is possible. I would imagine that there is a lot of pressure to move the premium seats and that there is also probably a financial incentive involved.

[National Defense]

and now the story from the washington times, circa 2005, for those that forgot

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/aug/09/20050809-122350-7405r/

The Washington Redskins are revoking season tickets belonging to fans caught selling them for profit on the Internet auction site EBay.

Redskins Vice President Karl Swanson yesterday confirmed the club's policy of canceling the season tickets of fans who sell any tickets for more than face value, a common practice for getting rid of unwanted seats

Mara Bralove of the District last month had six of her 12 season tickets revoked after a relative sold four of them on EBay. Miss Bralove said the tickets had been in her family since the 1940s.

I'm not saying that it and can't, didn't, or never will happen...

but as far as revoking LL seats from longtime GAs, we've read about it supposedly happening for years. However, I've never even once read of someone who actually claimed it happened to them. It's always someone who knows of someone it allegedly happened to. Same with ST revocation for poor fan conduct.

I do agree that a lot of LL seats have been removed from the GA pool since the Snyder era began. However, other than the WP seats that were revoked a few years back, I think most the LL premiums today were vacated by GAs leftover from the RFK era.

If the TO was really in the business of revoking prime LL GAs to convert into premiums, they wouldn't have been offering extra LL GAs to everyone in the lower level, they way they did this year.

Just my:2cents: Not saying its fact.

[McD5]

Compare how Bon Jovi runs a football franchise and treats the community and fans with the way Snyder does.

It is ugly.

Bon Jovi's team never made a profit. He has less money than Dan.

He also paid for and built, a ridiculous number of homes last year alone and gave them away to lower income members of his community.

Certainly Dan with the Redskins....he must have given away 5000, 10,000 homes last year?

Does anyone think Bon Jovi would monopolize parking to screw his clients, the fans?:hysterical:

Would he sue his best clients? The premium season ticket buyers? Many of whom have had season tickets for decades?:hysterical: Hell no, he would have probably given that 72 yr old free concert tickets to boot.

Would he spit in their face, and sell tickets to other organizations, instead of making the less expensive seats available to his own fans?:hysterical:

Synder thinks of himself. Seriously, wake up people.

[Monte51Coleman]

Compare how Bon Jovi runs a football franchise and treats the community and fans with the way Snyder does.

Didn't his team go belly up? Or was it the entire league?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Compare how Bon Jovi runs a franchise and treats the community and fans with the way Snyder does.

It is ugly.

Bon Jovi's team never made a profit. He has less money than Dan.

He also paid for and built, over 1,000 homes last year alone and gave them away to lower income members of his community.

Certainly Dan with the Redskins....he must have given away 5000, 10,000 homes last year?

Does anyone think Bon Jovi would monopolize parking to screw his clients, the fans?:hysterical:

Would he sue his best clients? The premium season ticket buyers? Many of whom have had season tickets for decades?:hysterical: Hell no, he would have probably given that 72 yr old free concert tickets to boot.

Would he spit in their face, and sell tickets to other organizations, instead of making the less expensive seats available to his own fans?:hysterical:

Synder thinks of himself.

Not to mention, Snyder never sang an awesome song like "I'll Be There For You" so there's no comparison!

It's nice to compare, but to cherry-pick one other owner in a completely different league and compare them is pretty weak. What's your point? No one is contending that Snyder is the best owner in American sports...

I guess for us to "tie" in this debate I just need to pick a meaner, worse owner in any sport?

[llcamino]

What I don't undestand is why people support Snyder no matter what. Most people don't have a personal relationship with him, so their only experience is through the Redskins. So.....Has he done ANYTHING to make your experience with the Redskins better than it was before he bought them?

Has he made them a winning team?

Has he reduced the cost of supporting the team?

Has he improved the game day experience?

No! Everything has gotten worse under his ownership. EVERYTHING! So at this point, 9 years into it, why would anyone still support him so vigorously? I think by now we're past the "benefit of the doubt" stage.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Nunyo would be so proud hahahahaha

Snyder is not blameless, the people defending him have not conceded one point. No doubt the post has a ax to grind that may hold merit. The two or three of you are making some good points but ignoring the bigger picture. You can pick the article apart and find things wrong with it but to defend the man to no fault who clearly has a history of shady buisness practice is funny. This doesn't remind you of how he made his money in comunications? it had nothing to do with great marketing ideas......

[Monkfan63]

Great article by Bos! Cooke must be rolling over in his grave....