Why Campbell Should Play The Entire Game Against Steelers

[McD5]

Disagree 100%! He is a "enigma" in a contract year ... no one knows how good/bad this guy is after 4 years ... except perhaps our own FO, the Coach of the Broncs, Chris Samuels and Rik Walker ... and that my friend is the conundrum.

You already know how good/bad he is.

What we don't know is what Colt looks like with the first string, or if TC can light it up with a system other than Al's.

And what better time to find that out than right now?

Let TC play with the starters this game.

Let Colt play with the starters in the 4th game. Or vice versa.

[bubba9497]

Again it's his OPINION on an internet message board, think about it.

and those reading that OPINION on an internet message board, can express their thoughts of that opinion on an internet message board, good or bad... think about it

[Llevron]

I am not basing much on 6 passes. That would be absurd.

I am basing my belief on everything we have ever seen from him. You know how good he is.

Now you can hope that he magically improved dramatically this offseason, but that is more hope than logic.

QBs don't improve dramatically over the offseason. A little...sure. A whole new quarterback? No way.

I am in favor of seeing Colt or TC with the first string. If they 100% absolutely suck, then we know we have to stick with the QB we already know, JC.

I don’t know how drastically he has to change to lead the team to victories. He has had his moments, was all know that. Correct me if I’m wrong but the biggest problem is that those moments are too few in number right?

If that’s the case then it’s not hard to believe that with him knowing more of the offence and having bigger, younger and faster receivers to throw the ball to he may improve enough to lead the team is it?

And ignoring all of that, what makes you think that the people in charge of making these decisions DONT want the best QB on the field. They see these guys everyday. They KNOW who the best is by now and they have said it over and over again.

[McD5]

I don’t know how drastically he has to change to lead the team to victories. He has had his moments, was all know that. Correct me if I’m wrong but the biggest problem is that those moments are too few in number right?

If that’s the case then it’s not hard to believe that with him knowing more of the offence and having bigger, younger and faster receivers to throw the ball to he may improve enough to lead the team is it?

And ignoring all of that, what makes you think that the people in charge of making these decisions DONT want the best QB on the field. They see these guys everyday. They KNOW who the best is by now and they have said it over and over again.

For the first question, I believe everybody would agree that JC, when good, might have the talent to be a Rex Grossman. Can you win one SB with that? Well the Bears came close. The question is if you want that for the next four years.

The only alternative, short of spending draft picks on a QB next season that we desperately need for o-line, is to see what else we have now.

As far as the management wanting the best QB on the field, no. Prior to Zorn being hired, or even seeing the QBs in one single practice, JC was already designated as the starter.

And that wasn't by a coach, or on talent evaluation. It was on dollars and cents, and on the hopes of him being a franchise qb.

Now, with the failed pursuit of Cutler and possibly Sanchez, I believe Dan has come to the realization that he has no idea how to evaluate QB talent.

[Chicken Fried]

I say play him most of the game. If he gets injured, he gets injured, but he needs the reps now to get ready for the season. It won't matter if he's healthy if he's still mediocre. It's worth the risk.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I say play him most of the game. If he gets injured, he gets injured, but he needs the reps now to get ready for the season. It won't matter if he's healthy if he's still mediocre. It's worth the risk.

Agreed.

[Llevron]

For the first question, I believe everybody would agree that JC, when good, might have the talent to be a Rex Grossman. Can you win one SB with that? Well the Bears came close. The question is if you want that for the next four years.

The only alternative, short of spending draft picks on a QB next season that we desperately need for o-line, is to see what else we have now.

As far as the management wanting the best QB on the field, no. Prior to Zorn being hired, or even seeing the QBs in one single practice, JC was already designated as the starter.

And that wasn't by a coach, or on talent evaluation. It was on dollars and cents, and on the hopes of him being a franchise qb.

Now, with the failed pursuit of Cutler and possibly Sanchez, I believe Dan has come to the realization that he has no idea how to evaluate QB talent.

I do believe you can win a SB with a decent (not amazing) QB with the correct supporting cast helping the best they can. You may not, but I have seen it and its definitely a strong possibility.

Do I want that for the next four years? Heck no, but I don’t see the point in dumping our best option for someone who is obviously WORSE at the position. Doesn’t make sense; That’s like the team coming out publicly and saying "Yea, we are screwed this year but may next year we might not be...". You don’t want that right?

Your statement about management trying to get rid of the guy just proves my point. They have shown, if nothing else, that they don’t care about the boys feelings or what the public thinks as long as they have the best available option behind center that’s possible. If they thought Colt, TC or anyone else on the roster was the QB of the future do you really think they would have tried so hard for every other option under the sun?

[BIGOLEBOB]

I am not basing much on 6 passes. That would be absurd.

I am basing my belief on everything we have ever seen from him. You know how good he is.

Now you can hope that he magically improved dramatically this offseason, but that is more hope than logic.

QBs don't improve dramatically over the offseason. A little...sure. A whole new quarterback? No way.

I am in favor of seeing Colt or TC with the first string. If they 100% absolutely suck, then we know we have to stick with the QB we already know, JC.

Okay here goes.

A quarterback does not develop by himself. A team is around him. Therefore when you talk about Campbell develping maybe "a little", thats fine and I agree. But thats all it takes. The difference between a TD pass thats caught and one that is overthrown by 4 inches is "a little". The difference between an outstretched football for a first down and a failed 4th down attempt is "a little". And when you consider that Moss, Portis, Cooley, Heyer, Kelly, Thomas, and Davis will all improve just "a little" ALL THOSE LITTLES ADD UP.

I think you missed that fact. Yu dislike Campbell and I can see why. He did not look GREAT last year and we all want GREAT from the QB position. However, Cooley fumbled on a critical play in a game which we could have won and it might have made the difference in a winning playoff season which we didn't have. So Cooley didn't always look GREAT either.

A.R.E rarely if ever returned a punt setting up good field position, so A.R.E. didn't look GREAT either. And the punting and field goal kickers didn't look GREAT either. I could go on and on and on.

When you consider the SLIGHT improvement in Jason Campbell along with the slight improvement in the rest of that bunch, I think its safe to say that we WILL see significant improvement over the course of the year.

4-5 more TD passes by Campbell is a slight improvement. 2-3 more TD runs by Portis is a slight improvement. But you add 7-8 more TD's to the offense along with a slight improvement in defense and suddenly an 8-8 team can become 10-6 or even 11-5 with a little luck and a better schedule, and we definitely have a better schedule with no Baltimore or Pittsburg on the schedule.

How about you join me and Mr Christmas Tree back here on SATURDAY night for the big debate and showdown. After the game we are going to get on a thread an discuss that IMPROVEMENT or LACK of it regarding the first team only. I do not want to discuss how many passes Hagan drops or how Eloi gets shoved out of bounds and then comes back in for a penalty or how Devin Clark gets beaten for 3 sacks on Colt Brennen/I just want to discuss the REDSKINS FIRST TEAM vs. PITTSBURG FIRST TEAM.

Thats all that is going to count in the reg season so lets have at it Sat nite.

[Gregpeck99]

Greg first of all you know it won't happen. There is no way Zorn will pass up the chance to watch Brennan "progress" more. I also believe playing him the whole game is useless. Playing him with the third and fourth string receivers, backs, and offensive line is totally pointless. He will most likely not play a down with any of those players. However I do see the use in playing him the entire first half. Give him a chance to prepare himself for the better defenses in the nfl by playing him against the best. Then play CB5 and Collins in the second half.

Playing him the first half will do. No need for the whole game.

My problem Hoya is that you know and I know we won't know anything more about Campbell after having him play the "first half" aginst the Steelers then we know now ... namely, that he sucks.

So now we are going into the Pats game ... and what are we gonna do there with Campbell ... play him for 3 quarters? At the end of the next 5 quarters agaisnt the two best teams in football with no more pre-season left ... what do we have? I'll tell you what we have: a "mystery" QB without any confidence going into the Meadowlands to start the season.

But some will say he has improved by studying film and learning (finally) to throwg the ball a nanosecond faster. What nonsense! Nothing to date has shown any tangible improvement in terms of production, touch, or field recognition after going through a team scrimmage and the Ravens game. Is he gonna magically blossom against the Steelers or the Pats first string? Sorry I won't take that bet. We need to know who this guy is ... is he our starting QB or not?

[skinfan2k]

and i think were the only team so far to have been shut out this preseason. and we finished 28th in scoring last year. and we have the same QB. this should be a hint.

Oh great stat!! Indy scored 3. Cleveland scored 0. Cincy scored 7 with Carson supposedly healthy.. Great stat!!:doh:

[McD5]

How about you join me and Mr Christmas Tree back here on SATURDAY night for the big debate and showdown. After the game we are going to get on a thread an discuss that IMPROVEMENT or LACK of it regarding the first team only. I do not want to discuss how many passes Hagan drops or how Eloi gets shoved out of bounds and then comes back in for a penalty or how Devin Clark gets beaten for 3 sacks on Colt Brennen/I just want to discuss the REDSKINS FIRST TEAM vs. PITTSBURG FIRST TEAM.

Thats all that is going to count in the reg season so lets have at it Sat nite.

I will be back here to evaluate the first team with you this weekend. No problem at all.

I can't promise Saturday night, because I may be going out. But definitely Sunday morning, at latest.

And I agree that a little improvement might possibly be all that is needed for one year. Trent Dilfer and Rex Grossman come to mind.

The bigger problem is that neither of those guys were able to duplicate success for a second season. That is where the problem is.

I come from a management background. So I like to focus on the big picture. And from a big picture standpoint, we are totally screwed for the next few years. And here is why:

If you believe our offensive line is going to be bad this year, it is going to be the absolute worst in the league next year.

Imagine Samuels, Rabach and Thomas 12 months from now. That is total disaster going forward.

Because of our FO's inability to understand how to build a winning football team, we are now absolutely FORCED to use our top picks next year on O-linemen.

And while Sam Bradford looks like the next great one, even if we give up most of our draft next year to get him, he would be playing behind absolutely, the worst o-line in the league.

Total disaster.

Vinny and Dan have backed this team into a corner. We really, really need one of our current qbs to be able to lead us for the next three seasons, so that we can use those picks on o-line next season.

It's extremely ugly. Poor management has really caught up with us. And it will really catch up with us 12 months from now.

[bubba9497]

Oh great stat!! Indy scored 3. Cleveland scored 0. Cincy scored 7 with Carson supposedly healthy.. Great stat!!:doh:

and those high powered offense of the pokes and cards scored 10 points each... the pokes against the raiders

not to mention it is preseason week #1, and not every team has played yet :hysterical:

nothing like those impressive sounding comments that in reality mean squat

[Llevron]

I come from a management background. So I like to focus on the big picture. And from a big picture standpoint, we are totally screwed for the next few years. And here is why:

"Stuff and junk"

It's extremely ugly. Poor management has really caught up with us. And it will really catch up with us 12 months from now.

I agree with you completley. I guess the only difference is that I trust what Zorn (only zorn lol) has to say about the QB situation. You dont seem to.

[SkinsTribeVA]

You don't get ready for a chess tournament by playing checkers.

Haha I like it.

Yea I'd say play him for the entire first quarter, or at least 3 drives. He didn't do great last week and people started saying "he didn't have time to develop a rhythm," etc. I'm a JC supporter (see sig) but we gotta see something from this guy and put him in a position to show it.

[Uno Mas]

Barely? :rotflmao:

we also swept the Eagles, and beat the Cards.... the two teams in the NFCCG

so what

and playing against 2nd/3rd stringers and scrubs is going to answer your questions

how? :whoknows:

he's proven himself a lot more than that, yes we need more scoring, and finish drives.... but doing it against inferior talent and schemes isn't going to help when the bullets are real.... Save your over reactions for your impressionable high school buddies

and our defense allowed fewest points in the NFL than just 5 other teams

Steelers, Titans, Ravens, Eagles, and Giants

JC threw 1 more TD pass than Collins, and had better regular season stats sans 56 yards, and 4 td passes

playing against a tougher defensive schedule

if the defense didn't allow a couple last minute scores we would have had a winning record, playoff appearance and no one questioning Campbell this season

and you are not going to gage anything playing a half either. pre-season is played so much differently than the regular season, it doesn't give you a real idea of how the regular season will be

WTF are you talking about Bubba? I never came remotely close to implying that he should play vs second or third stringers.

Funny, you brag on our top 4 defense then blame them for allowing a couple last minute scores, thus preventing us from making the playoffs. :hysterical: Whatever dude.

Right, you cant gauge talent from one half of football!? You might wanna alert Roger Goodell asap, cause for some reason every team in the league feels they can evaluate the talent on their respective rosters, trying to find the best 53 men, in no less than 4 pre-season games.

WTF Bubba, are you that queer for Campbell? Youre calling me out for something Im not even claiming, then end your post with that lame bit. Im truly disappointed.

And to add to it, you provide nothing to support your claim that Campbell has proven 'a lot more than that'. What has he proven, beside the fact that he locks on to his primary receiver, holds on to the ball too long, is inaccurate, has a losing record as a starting QB? I can go on and on but I wont. I tried to avoid the whole Campbell bashing in the first place with my first post, theres already enough of that going on.

I hope he turns the page, but as of this very moment in his career he's proven to be no more than an average QB.

[Uno Mas]

I'm gonna disagree with you guys on this one. We know what Campbell did last year with first year system and worthless receivers and pressure etc.

Based on 1 single game so far with only 6 passes I couldn't tell anything about what he has learned in the offseason. maybe you are more astute than I am but i don't see how anyone can judge what his skill set is right now based on 6 throws against the #2 defense in the league with a guy named Hagans starting at wide receiver. HUH?

Tell you what. If campbell plays an entire quarter this week against Pitt and they leave hagans at the bus station before the game, I will be satisfied and then we can have a meaningful discussion about what Campbell has learned in the offseason. but 6 passes...we know what we have? I think you have already made up your mind that you are watching last years Campbell and that may come back to bite you this weekend. But we'll wait and see sat. night.

Agree 100% with this post. Give Jason the entire season. No excuses, put up or get out.

[BIGOLEBOB]

I will be back here to evaluate the first team with you this weekend. No problem at all.

I can't promise Saturday night, because I may be going out. But definitely Sunday morning, at latest.

And I agree that a little improvement might possibly be all that is needed for one year. Trent Dilfer and Rex Grossman come to mind.

The bigger problem is that neither of those guys were able to duplicate success for a second season. That is where the problem is.

I come from a management background. So I like to focus on the big picture. And from a big picture standpoint, we are totally screwed for the next few years. And here is why:

If you believe our offensive line is going to be bad this year, it is going to be the absolute worst in the league next year.

Imagine Samuels, Rabach and Thomas 12 months from now. That is total disaster going forward.

Because of our FO's inability to understand how to build a winning football team, we are now absolutely FORCED to use our top picks next year on O-linemen.

And while Sam Bradford looks like the next great one, even if we give up most of our draft next year to get him, he would be playing behind absolutely, the worst o-line in the league.

Total disaster.

Vinny and Dan have backed this team into a corner. We really, really need one of our current qbs to be able to lead us for the next three seasons, so that we can use those picks on o-line next season.

It's extremely ugly. Poor management has really caught up with us. And it will really catch up with us 12 months from now.

You seem to have ignored that Rinehart has ALREADY replace Thomas, at least in many respects. By all reports the FIRST TEAM pass blocking was excellent against the number 2 defense in the NFL, and that first team was Rinehart and NOT Randy Thomas, so I see no problem putting Chad down at starting right guard next season. And if Thomas will get WORSE, Rinehart should get equally BETTER during that period.

Samuels, well, he's Samuels and you and I both know he will need to be replaced at some point. However, its certainly is possible that he will be able to play for 1 or 2 more years, so don't dive up on him quite yet.

Raybach is nothing special but he is reliable. If both Guards improve and do well then he is okay at Center for another couple of years or until Edwin Williams can be groomed. And like you, I see us using the number one draft pick next year on a guard or tackle. Possibly a guard and then going into free agency to pick up another tackle. And don't forget about Bridges, because if he comes along and improves as well we have another starter ready to go.

I am just more positive than you. I see our STRENGTHS as an improving HEYER, Bridges, Dockery, and a number 1 draft pick and a free agent next year. If Samuels plays at a high level this year and next, then we could be VERY strong next year with those additions. It is possible.

[SWFLSkins]

Is he the Skins' starting QB? You are begging the issue ... and that's why he must paly the entire game.

HE seemed to paly around the sidelines the whole night;)

You want Zorn to do something nobody in the history of the NFL has done. En vougue. Neva gonna get it.

[TK]

IS JC that good? you would rather see him hurt then to shine here?You better get banned for this!!!! i got banned for joking about PD tearing a ACL to become a Jarmon Agent!they were that sensitive! You better get banned for this ,becuase there is no joke to this:chair:

No dippy. You were banned for a Rule #18 violation right HERE. So, for lying about why you were banned, I'm extending your break from HERE.

[Gregpeck99]

You want Zorn to do something nobody in the history of the NFL has done. En vougue. Neva gonna get it.

Don't know what to expect from Zorn ... he is so wishy-washy ... errr ... "medium." But what I "want" Zorn to do is to play his so-called starting QB against the Super Bowl Champs until that QB puts some points on the freakin Board ... and if it takes all 4 quarters to do it ... so be it.

[Gregpeck99]

You already know how good/bad he is.

What we don't know is what Colt looks like with the first string, or if TC can light it up with a system other than Al's.

And what better time to find that out than right now?

Let TC play with the starters this game.

Let Colt play with the starters in the 4th game. Or vice versa.

We only know how bad Campbell is up to now. What we need to know (and we are out of time literally) is he not so bad where he can start the season at QB. I say we have real doubt there.

To resolve this doubt by playing TC the first two quarters against the Steeler starters is not fair to JC though admittedly it is logical. Ergo, the only fair solution to me is to let Jason "prove his merit" against the Steelers, i.e. let Campbell play himself on or off the team. Why we should be fair to Jason is the price the Team must pay for the public dailliance with Cutler/Sanchez.

As for CB, I cannot see him with the first string in game # 4 cause you do not want to play any of your first stringers in the most meaningless preseason game of all. Do you?

[KokoMike]

My first thought was Campbell should play until he scores a TD regardless of how long it may take.

As I reflected, I realized the Skins are truly a work in progress, and therefore, Campbell should be challenged to score a TD on his first drive instead of eventually.

In fact, every QB should have that challenge, as well.

Maybe Zorn should have that challenge, too.

[CB4MVP]

Thank you.. I haven`t laughed like that in a long time.

[MartinC]

We only know how bad Campbell is up to now. What we need to know (and we are out of time literally) is he not so bad where he can start the season at QB. I say we have real doubt there.

?

Doubt? I'm getting a very strong impression you have already made up your mind on this one

See here's the thing that you need to understand/accept.

The decision that Jason Campbell is our starting QB this season baring injury has already been made. It is not going to change based on what happens Sunday or the the rest of preseason baring something extraordinary.

I get you dont like or agree with the decision and you may be proven correct. However it is what it is. Good or bad you need to learn to live with it and then what will be will be.

In any case the thing about playing Jason all game against the Steelers is that to do that you have to play your starting line all game as well as a minimum. No way you want your starting QB being protected by some LT who may be stacking shelves again in a couple of weeks. Do you really want to risk Chris Samuels blowing a knee in the 3rd quarter of a meaningless preseason game? Or best case just putting miles on the tires of players you need to be ready for the season opener not right now? Never going to happen.

He will probably get just over a quarter against the Steelers and the whole first half versus the Pats. He may not even take a snap in the last game.

[Gregpeck99]

Doubt?

He will probably get just over a quarter against the Steelers and the whole first half versus the Pats. He may not even take a snap in the last game.

You may be right here ... depressing isn't it. The Team will be throwing the dice with a lame duck starting QB come September.:mad: