MSNBC.com: Al Franken declared winner in Minnesota Senate Race

[Kilmer17]

The issue of course is which votes are deemed to be "valid".

That's the problem.

Yay for you, the courts awarded Franken the seat. Doesnt mean the dems didnt steal it like they have others.

[Predicto]

The issue of course is which votes are deemed to be "valid".

That's the problem.

Yay for you, the courts awarded Franken the seat. Doesnt mean the dems didnt steal it like they have others.

Kilmer, you are pretty much lying about this one.

[karmacop]

The issue of course is which votes are deemed to be "valid".

That's the problem.

Yay for you, the courts awarded Franken the seat. Doesnt mean the dems didnt steal it like they have others.

Valid absentee votes under Minnesota law are clearly detailed by statute. Bipartisan canvassing boards and bipartisan courts have taken numerous looks at all of this, and found that all of the valid votes have indeed been counted, and Franken won.

You lose credibility by complaining that this election was stolen. In fact, this recount has been the most bipartisan, thorough and effective recount that I can remember.

Sour grapes galore going on here. There is absolutely no evidence of any fraud. Even Coleman and his lawyers admitted during his lawsuits that they have not found any evidence of fraud or tampering. Why can't you?

[Madison Redskin]

Yay for you, the courts awarded Franken the seat.

Like the SCOTUS awarded the Presidency to GWB?

[@DCGoldPants]

[Kilmer17]

What the court ruled is that even though there are thousands of absentee ballots that have NOT been counted, they CANNOT be counted-

The unanimous court wrote that "because the legislature established absentee voting as an optional method of voting, voters choosing to use that method are required to comply with the statutory provisions."

They went on to say that "because strict compliance with the statutory requirements for absentee voting is, and always has been required, there is no basis on which voters could have reasonably believed that anything less than strict compliance would suffice."

So there are thousands of votes left uncounted. Quite different from your claim that all have been counted.

[Kilmer17]

Like the SCOTUS awarded the Presidency to GWB?

Another nod to the myths and propoganda spewed by the left regarding what happened in 2000.

[TMK9973]

One group wanted to include more ballots

One group wanted to stop the recap and say there wasn't time to continue

Every court agreed with one side.

Both the 2000 presidential election and the 2008 Min senate election. The rub is the D's and R's switched sides on what they wanted.

So - If Franklin stole the 2008 election then you must also belive that Bush stole the 2000 election

If Franklin won the 2008 election then you must also belive that Bush Won the 2000 election

Trying to have it both ways, as Kilmer is, is just silly.

[Kilmer17]

One group wanted to include more ballots

One group wanted to stop the recap and say there wasn't time to continue

Every court agreed with one side.

Both the 2000 presidential election and the 2008 Min senate election. The rub is the D's and R's switched sides on what they wanted.

So - If Franklin stole the 2008 election then you must also belive that Bush stole the 2000 election

If Franklin won the 2008 election then you must also belive that Bush Won the 2000 election

Trying to have it both ways, as Kilmer is, is just silly.

A+B must equal C right?

In FLA, Gore wanted to count certain places and exclude absentee ballots (sound familiar?)

In MINN, Coleman has asked for all of the absentee ballots to be counted.

There really isnt a way to compare other than both were attempts by the Dems to steal an election, one successful and one not.

[karmacop]

What the court ruled is that even though there are thousands of absentee ballots that have NOT been counted, they CANNOT be counted-

The unanimous court wrote that "because the legislature established absentee voting as an optional method of voting, voters choosing to use that method are required to comply with the statutory provisions."

They went on to say that "because strict compliance with the statutory requirements for absentee voting is, and always has been required, there is no basis on which voters could have reasonably believed that anything less than strict compliance would suffice."

So there are thousands of votes left uncounted. Quite different from your claim that all have been counted.

Those absentee votes are not valid because they did not comply with the clear rules for how those votes needed to be cast. Are you seriously advocating that we should count votes even though the rules applying to how those votes are cast were clearly violated?

Kilmer, we're talking basic stuff here. Votes without signatures on them. Votes where the signatures don't match. Votes where there's no witness signature. All clear violations.

And these rules are in place to make sure that there is no voter fraud. You're against voter fraud, right?

All ballots left uncounted are those deemed to be inherently unreliable by law. And you want those to be counted??

[Chopper Dave]

I don't understand why someone is posting an article from November.

Oh wait...

[karmacop]

In MINN, Coleman has asked for all of the absentee ballots to be counted.

This is completely and utterly false. Kilmer, please click the link to the thread from January and you'll be reminded why this is a lie.

[TMK9973]

A+B must equal C right?

In FLA, Gore wanted to count certain places and exclude absentee ballots (sound familiar?)

In MINN, Coleman has asked for all of the absentee ballots to be counted.

There really isn't a way to compare other than both were attempts by the Dems to steal an election, one successful and one not.

Except when the court ruled that Gore couldn't selective select which counties to recount, Gore's team that argued to recount ALL ballots, which the supreme court stopped saying that there was not enough time to do that, and still certify the election in time.

[McD5]

Jimmy Fallon for Treasury Dept.

[Dan T.]

A+B must equal C right?

In FLA, Gore wanted to count certain places and exclude absentee ballots (sound familiar?)

In MINN, Coleman has asked for all of the absentee ballots to be counted.

There really isnt a way to compare other than both were attempts by the Dems to steal an election, one successful and one not.

So Coleman wanted invalid absentee ballots, as determined by the courts, counted? HE TRIED TO STEAL the election! Thank goodness justice prevailed.

[karmacop]

So Coleman wanted invalid absentee ballots, as determined by the courts, counted? HE TRIED TO STEAL the election! Thank goodness justice prevailed.

This is a very good and accurate way to put it. :applause:

[Kilmer17]

Those absentee votes are not valid because they did not comply with the clear rules for how those votes needed to be cast. Are you seriously advocating that we should count votes even though the rules applying to how those votes are cast were clearly violated?

Kilmer, we're talking basic stuff here. Votes without signatures on them. Votes where the signatures don't match. Votes where there's no witness signature. All clear violations.

And these rules are in place to make sure that there is no voter fraud. You're against voter fraud, right?

All ballots left uncounted are those deemed to be inherently unreliable by law. And you want those to be counted??

I havent seen any explanation for why ballots were excluded. Only the broad "not valid" phrase used as an explanation. If you have that, please link it.

[deejaydana]

Another nod to the myths and propoganda spewed by the left regarding what happened in 2000.

I'm not up to speed in what happened in Minnesota but I completely agree with what you posted here. It's amazing to me how many liberals bloviate about how the GOP "stole the Florida election" when if you did even a moderate amount of reading up on that topic you would find it to not be the case at all. I've read several books----from varying perspectives---and the election was not stolen or swindled at all. But why look into facts when you can just believe in conspiracy? Better yet, just watch a Hollywood produced film about it because you know they always provide an evenhanded accounting when it comes to politics.

[Kilmer17]

Except when the court ruled that Gore couldn't selective select which counties to recount, Gore's team that argued to recount ALL ballots, which the supreme court stopped saying that there was not enough time to do that, and still certify the election in time.

Again, you are completely wrong about what happened in FLA. But it's not suprising, because this is the way the leftwing media portrays it.

The Fla Supreme court ruled that ALL counties had to do a recount, Gore didnt ask for it. The SCOTUS stepped in and ruled that the FLA court didnt have that authority. A 7-2 decision. They further ruled that there was not enough time for any other remedy. That was the 5-4 ruling.

[Chopper Dave]

Except when the court ruled that Gore couldn't selective select which counties to recount, Gore's team that argued to recount ALL ballots, which the supreme court stopped saying that there was not enough time to do that, and still certify the election in time.

Bingo. All this "Harris was a hero" bull**** is just that, bull****. She stopped the recount long enough to seal the deal for her boss's brother. I will concede that even if there was a recount, Bush would've won, but just because they didn't need to cheat doesn't mean they didn't.

The issues between the Minnesota election and the 2000 Presidential election are similar, albeit with the tables turned. The main difference is that the recount was allowed to occur in this case, and it went in the Dems favor. So what I gather from all of this is that, in the Republican mindset, recounts are invalid if they're in the lead, but necessary if they're losing. They fought against the 2000 Florida recount, they fought against the first 2008 Minnesota recount, but once that one occurred and reversed Coleman's 200 vote lead, they were all for a recount. I assume they just want the votes counted and counted and counted until Coleman is in the lead.

[Chopper Dave]

Again, you are completely wrong about what happened in FLA. But it's not suprising, because this is the way the leftwing media portrays it.

The Fla Supreme court ruled that ALL counties had to do a recount, Gore didnt ask for it. The SCOTUS stepped in and ruled that the FLA court didnt have that authority. A 7-2 decision. They further ruled that there was not enough time for any other remedy. That was the 5-4 ruling.

There wasn't enough time thanks to Cruella de Harris's stalling.

[karmacop]

I havent seen any explanation for why ballots were excluded. Only the broad "not valid" phrase used as an explanation. If you have that, please link it.

There are only four valid reasons for rejecting an absentee ballot in Minnesota, and it's set forth in the following clear statute:

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=203B.12

The only reasons to reject a ballot are if they don't meet one or more of the following criteria:

(1) the voter's name and address on the return envelope are the same as the information provided on the absentee ballot application;

(2) the voter's signature on the return envelope is the genuine signature of the individual who made the application for ballots and the certificate has been completed as prescribed in the directions for casting an absentee ballot, except that if a person other than the voter applied for the absentee ballot under applicable Minnesota Rules, the signature is not required to match;

(3) the voter is registered and eligible to vote in the precinct or has included a properly completed voter registration application in the return envelope; and

(4) the voter has not already voted at that election, either in person or by absentee ballot.

All of the absentee ballots that have been rejected must have been rejected for one of these reasons.

The Minnesota absentee ballots have been reviewed numerous times: twice by local canvassing boards, again by the bipartisan three-judge trial election trial panel, and finally by the Minn. Supreme Court. So I think we can safely say that such ballots have been properly rejected and invalid.

[Kilmer17]

Bingo. All this "Harris was a hero" bull**** is just that, bull****. She stopped the recount long enough to seal the deal for her boss's brother. I will concede that even if there was a recount, Bush would've won, but just because they didn't need to cheat doesn't mean they didn't.

The issues between the Minnesota election and the 2000 Presidential election are similar, albeit with the tables turned. The main difference is that the recount was allowed to occur in this case, and it went in the Dems favor. So what I gather from all of this is that, in the Republican mindset, recounts are invalid if they're in the lead, but necessary if they're losing. They fought against the 2000 Florida recount, they fought against the first 2008 Minnesota recount, but once that one occurred and reversed Coleman's 200 vote lead, they were all for a recount. I assume they just want the votes counted and counted and counted until Coleman is in the lead.

The irony in this is so thick you need a machete to cut through it.

Gore wanted to EXCLUDE absentee votes in FLA and ONLY count farleft leaning counties. In MINN, once again absentee ballots are EXCLUDED.

Your explanation is accurate, it just has the wrong party as the ones trying to prevent votes from being counted.

[Kilmer17]

There wasn't enough time thanks to Cruella de Harris's stalling.

More evidence of the myths permeating from the left with a dash of the ad hominem attacks the left uses as a last reort.

Harris didnt stall anything, she held up the timeline as set by election law that was passed by a Democrat controlled Legislature and signed by a Democrat Governor.

[The Evil Genius]

At the time, Florida law had no mechanism for a statewide recount; only for a county by county recount.