ACW Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Larry, all that may be true, but that's only the last 40-50 years. Before that, blacks DID have it worse (or as bad). And who was this poster who committed assault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Larry, all that may be true, but that's only the last 40-50 years. Before that, blacks DID have it worse (or as bad). And therefore? And who was this poster who committed assault? I'm not 100% certain. (And don't want to be pointing fingers at the wrong person.) But I'll give you two guesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You can pretend not to be gay and not be lynched or dragged by chains or have your house/church set ablaze. It was tough to pretend not to be black. that's only my opinion. My best friend is a lesbian.. you'd never know... Rosa couldn't fake her way to the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Yeah, in some respects being gay was much more like being Jewish or a gypsy than being black. Gays, Jews, and gypsies can be invisible if they try hard enough, but during certain time periods and places (including some today) if you are found out your life is going to be hell... that is if you get to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Gays, Jews, and Gypsies Sounds like one of Cher's lesser known B-sides ~Tramp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think children can be indoctrinated to say anything (for or against)... This isn't news: that children are swayed by their parental influences. I'm going to be teaching my own children to respect everyone and treat them as they would want to be treated. However, I won't be teaching them relativism when it comes to sexuality. I won't be teaching them that all lifestyles and choices are equal. Even choices that my own children make will have consequences and they shouldn't expect society to conform to or accept their position and reward it equally to others who make different choices. Regardless, they should treat everyone in a dignified manner regardless of their choices in life or condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And therefore? I'm not 100% certain. (And don't want to be pointing fingers at the wrong person.) But I'll give you two guesses. One's been banned, the other was a seaman :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm going to be teaching my own children to respect everyone and treat them as they would want to be treated. However, I won't be teaching them relativism when it comes to sexuality. I won't be teaching them that all lifestyles and choices are equal. Please explain how those two ideas work together, if you would. You're going to teach your children that NOT everyone is equal, just to treat them that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Thanks for the post. I am pro-same-sex marriage but must admit that I am uncomfortable with gays adopting children.This article hasn't completely sold me one way or the other, but it's some nice new info to think about. I'd like to see studies done. I think adopting is one of the most productive things a gay couple can do. There are so many kids that are stuck in orphanages, or that are aborted because the bio parents aren’t responsible. The fact that there is a community willing to take care of these kids is a great thing, it is just unfortunate that they are blocked for being gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You can pretend not to be gay and not be lynched or dragged by chains or have your house/church set ablaze.It was tough to pretend not to be black. that's only my opinion. My best friend is a lesbian.. you'd never know... Rosa couldn't fake her way to the front. So your point is that society doesn't discriminate against gays, if society can't find the gays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And therefore? I'm not 100% certain. (And don't want to be pointing fingers at the wrong person.) But I'll give you two guesses. I don't think it's rigth for you to say those accusations without backing it up. I read all of the homo topic threads, and have never seen anything posted like that before. I suggest you go find that post and then show us, otherwise- please do not try to make people think certain posters are bigoted criminals. It's not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudechain Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 " No justification can be made to put adopted babies in this type of environment. If a gay couple wants children there are other alternatives like invetro or surrogacy. Atleast the child will be blood relation to one of the parents. so it's just better to leave the child in foster care or being cared for by the state? You mean it would not be better for a child to have someone giving parental guidance and stability in life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudechain Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Are you saying gay couples are immune from abusing children? An adopted child in a gay home will without a doubt face many challenges they would normally not experience in a straight household. The burden this child will have to carry cannot be justified by the mere desire of a gay couple to have the one thing, by their own nature,which is unattainable to them. Well, what about mixed race? And can't straight people be abusive too? Seems to me the problem is external and not internal. If a child has a nurturing and stable enviorment, then that child can excel. Kids can be cruel and can tease for just about anything. If your short, fat, thin, wear braces or glasses. If you asian, hispanic, arabic or of mixed ethnicity or other minority then your probably going to be teased. Is it right? Of course not, but kids do these things and it's part of the process of growing up. You learn that those are only words and words only have power if you let them. Now ignorance is another story... If your ignorant and choose not to empower yourself with knowledge, then you will remain ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudechain Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm not saying that but lets not put all gay couples on a pedestal and think they are God's gift to adopted children either. Every human being has flaws. Gay couples have their own set of problems in regards to adopting children. Way to go for trying to discredit what I didnt say. I clearly stated they have the option, legally, to have their own natural born children via invetro or surrogacy but on the ISSUE of adoption I am against it. So what do we do with these kids then? There are more kids then there are homes, or straight persons willing or wanting to adopt. Are they simply supposed to be wards of the state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I don't think it's rigth for you to say those accusations without backing it up. I read all of the homo topic threads, and have never seen anything posted like that before. I suggest you go find that post and then show us, otherwise- please do not try to make people think certain posters are bigoted criminals. It's not cool. Pointing out that I've already specifically declined to name a poster, specifically because I'm not certain of who it was. (And because I didn't mention it in the first place as a "call out" or a statement on an individual poster.) (I simply remember chewing up about two pages "discussing" it with him.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think adopting is one of the most productive things a gay couple can do. There are so many kids that are stuck in orphanages, or that are aborted because the bio parents aren’t responsible.This. Shouldn't pro-life people be PRO-gay adoption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I think people used the same argument with respect to interracial couples. If I recall, you are the product of an interracial couple. Does that mean you are an abomination? Why bring race into a sexual perversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Why bring race into a sexual perversion? Because discrimination is discrimination. No matter how you try to run away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMason Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 But it's discrimination against a behavior, which inherently makes it different from discrimination based on race. Society discriminates against behavior all the time. (I'm not defending discrimination here--just trying to point out that it's not as bad as discriminating against somebody solely because of the color of their skin.) Anyway, this thread is making me reconsider my point of view. As I said, I am pro gay rights in every way, except I am uncomfortable with gay adoption. ("He's a bigot! Get 'im!") But if there is an excess of children up for adoption/foster care, and only a limited amount of heterosexual couples to care for them...then yeah, gay parents are an acceptable solution. So yes, I am ok with homosexual parents adopting children. I don't think there should be any state or federal laws preventing it from happening, but I also don't think the law should protect it as a right. (I'd hate to see a private church-based orphanage legally forced to do something that they believe is immoral.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 But it's discrimination against a behavior, which inherently makes it different from discrimination based on race. Society discriminates against behavior all the time. (I'm not defending discrimination here--just trying to point out that it's not as bad as discriminating against somebody solely because of the color of their skin.)Anyway, this thread is making me reconsider my point of view. As I said, I am pro gay rights in every way, except I am uncomfortable with gay adoption. ("He's a bigot! Get 'im!") But if there is an excess of children up for adoption/foster care, and only a limited amount of heterosexual couples to care for them...then yeah, gay parents are an acceptable solution. So yes, I am ok with homosexual parents adopting children. I don't think there should be any state or federal laws preventing it from happening, but I also don't think the law should protect it as a right. (I'd hate to see a private church-based orphanage legally forced to do something that they believe is immoral.) sounds like a reasonable position to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 So your point is that society doesn't discriminate against gays, if society can't find the gays? My point was discrimination and rope/death sucks for both, but one was fake-able. The other was 24x7. Which makes it not equal in their pain and thus comparing apples/blacks. Not to be confused with they have an easy life like me though. This. Shouldn't pro-life people be PRO-gay adoption? absolutely! (any adoption is better than execution), quite a few people have craptacular childhoods and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I don't think there should be any state or federal laws preventing it from happening, but I also don't think the law should protect it as a right. (I'd hate to see a private church-based orphanage legally forced to do something that they believe is immoral.)That works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 But it's discrimination against a behavior, which inherently makes it different from discrimination based on race. No, it isn't. Saying "well, all they have to do to not have the US Constitution discriminate against them is not be gay" isn't any different from "is to not let anybody find out". Was it OK for Hitler to exterminate the Jews? After all, it's a choice. All they had to do was not be Jewish. Yeah, I understand that racial discrimination is not 100% identical to sexual discrimination is not equal to orientation discrimination. (Although, the arguments people use to defend them are 100% identical.) However the fact that two forms of discrimination involve different characteristics does not change the fact that they're both discrimination, nor does it make one of them moral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I'll pipe in on the gay vs blacks discrimination comparison- I ususally don't respond to those as I am not one to say it is comparable. I think the black people of America have, and still do in many ways- face more/worse discrimination. I honestly do not know any gay peopel who say they are the same, which I find interesting that straight people, mostly white, are the ones who always say that. So to the African America community- please don't think all gay people compare our struggles to yours. What I do find very interesting though is that on ES, the word ****** is starred out, yet people can use the word faggot/dyke all the time and no one says a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I'll pipe in on the gay vs blacks discrimination comparison- I ususally don't respond to those as I am not one to say it is comparable. I think the black people of America have, and still do in many ways- face more/worse discrimination. I honestly do not know any gay peopel who say they are the same, which I find interesting that straight people, mostly white, are the ones who always say that. So to the African America community- please don't think all gay people compare our struggles to yours. What I do find very interesting though is that on ES, the word ****** is starred out, yet people can use the word faggot/dyke all the time and no one says a thing. I've been on here 4 years and pretty active, and I've only seen each of those words used once, until now that is. Of course I also don't read every thread so... :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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