Neverending Arguments

[BigMike619]

I fully agree with this thread, but keep in mind that in the offseason, there isn't much else to talk about. More than that, it seems like the more frequent posters prefer the back and forth arguing. I made a couple thread which people even commented they were good threads, but they died after a few pages. Arguing about Campbell or whether or not Landry should be traded can go on forever, but some of the more analytical and interesting threads die within a day or two.

I guess the offseason around here is 90% arguing whether players are the best or the worst, and 'should we' threads.

this is with most threads all over the site. It is almost more rare that they DONT turn in to a battle back and forth with people getting mad all over the place.

You have a good grasp on the stadium though I must say.

[CRobi21]

I seriously only see a certain group of posters post on only one topic and that's it.

I NEVER see them post in different threads. It's crazy.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

Hear hear! TS, EXTREMELY good points in your OP, and I heartily concur. If this weren't the Internetz, and we weren't separated by 3,000 odd miles of continent...I'd buy you a large beer my man.

As it stands now though, errr - BigMike said put it on his tab.

I haven't frequented this place much at all this offseason, but whenever I do pop in it seems as if I never left for so much as a cup of coffee. The mind-numbing, ad nauseam pissing into the wind mentality that is much too prevalent here of late is anything but good.

...I blame TK. If he hadn't finally mellowed with age, plus gotten married to skinsgirl, none of these yabos would be here longer than it took them to bellow their single-minded antagonism in a post or two - then the ban hammer cometh.

I guess this is the new cruelty -

<sigh>

[BigRedskinDaddy]

Mom! He's touching me! (or something to that effect)[/

Mom! He's picking his nose!!(or something to that effect)[/

Alright you two - I'll turn this car right around and there will be no Baskin Robbins and straight to bed.....

is that what you want?

brb; gonna go fill up my gas cans for this soon-to-be forest fire....

[Thinking Skins]

So TS, before this thread goes by the way of the QB argument or some other direction. Where you just venting about "Never Ending Arguments", or did you have some other intent with your thread? Please respond quickly as the thread is beginning to take a life of it's own.

Vent? I guess you can call it a vent. Its a comment about the way the stadium has become.

In a perfect world, I'd think that your comment about game manager would make a nice thread. But we both know that this is not a perfect world and we cannot talk about arbitary QBs. That thread would quickly turn into a JC bashers vs JC lovers debate by the 15th post.

I've read your posts in the Cult of Colt thread. I know where you stand on Colt Brennan and Jason Campbell. So its kinda repetitive to have another thread on such a similar issue. Thats kinda one of my points.

I'm not trying to censor anybody here, but moreso asking for an act of common courtesy.

[Thinking Skins]

There is an easy solution: ignore those people and move on. No one REQUIRES you to argue on this board for anything, and more than likely those people who continue to argue are not going to change their minds. So, why get worked up over it?

Course, I'm someone who likes to argue, so I don't mind mixing it up.

There is a reason why I don't get involved with the JC arguments anymore. The subject has been completely beaten to death at this point and there is little to argue until we get more data when camp and preseason starts.

If a solution is too easy, its probably incorrect.

If the problem was that only a few posters were doing this, then it'd be easier to just ignore this. But some of the very people who do this are people who on other topics I can have some nice detailed discussions about stuff. But its just that whenever a name like Jason Campbell comes up, it strikes a nerve and they feel that they must argue for/against him.

Putting such people on ignore would make me like the stadium even less, because I'd be missing out on how much I enjoy the stadium when the talk is not about one of these neverending arguments.

[Thinking Skins]

Funny you mention Orakpo at LB, there is actually a really good thread on it, without all the garbage, just X's and O's and philosophies. And lots of screen caps and diagrams. Actually very informative stuff in there

What I find really sad is that some topics (like Orakpo at LB) have gotten to the point of annoyance with me that I tell myself that I don't even want to read some of these threads because of all the shouting matches I've already seen based on this argument. But if you provide me a link to the thread, maybe it'll be something to let me know that the Stadium is still capable of decent dialogue.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

BRD!

Were you been hiding bro? Still prowling the Calli hills and riding off into the sun set on that heap of metal you call a bike?

Man, you need to pop around more often. Your repertoire is ALWAYS a must read, and your witty post responses, as exemplified again here, always have me laughing aloud, which is always welcome in this nut house we call home. (I figure that's enough praise to cover the "bike" thing. :evilg:).

Hail.

[Thinking Skins]

But that's the reason I joined ES. I enjoy it all and hope it never changes, it wouldn't be ES if all that changed. You can really see the whole spectrum on one topic. I can write a biography about colt using ES alone.

Wow.

See (and Om can tell you better than I), there was a time before Extremeskins where we as Redskins fans lurked from site to site on this thing called the internets looking for a place to have these quality football conversations.

One of the more popular sites was this place called tsn (I believe thats thesportingnews, but I can be mistaken). Anyway, we could have good conversations there, but so often the conversations were interrupted by just namecalling and people more interested in making the other person feel bad than in discussing an idea.

So many of us gathered at this site in hopes to set a new standard for online message boards.

And by golly, thats what was done here.

So trust me, these neverending arguments are not the foundation of Extremeskins. And if we are able to watch Bang toons, Murf's photos, JimmiJo's interviews, and a whole lot of the other opinions that are gathered here - without these neverending arguments, then guess what? This would still be Extremeskins.

[Thinking Skins]

Lots of things.

1. O-line. Will it be decent or will it be bad and injury prone again?

2. Will Kelly and/Thomas step up this year?

3. Who will our kicker be?

4. How will Zorn be as a HC now that he and his coaches have a full year in the system?

5. Who will be the #5 WR?

6. Do we keep a RB other than Portis, Betts and Rock?

7. How will Daneils respond from surgery last year?

8. Will Rocky have a breakout season?

9. Can someone beat out ARE in the return game?

I could go on, but there are alot of thing we COULD talk about as well.

Yeah, this is just the beginning.

I really like what dude from the Redskins Blog is doing this offseason. We had no Redskins news so he said he'd interview every coach (and even those threads were hijacked). There are so many angles that can be explored, but we're not gonna be exploring them if everybody's set on finding an argument to prove that JC is or is not the QB of the future.

[Thinking Skins]

It wasn't a problem when we were 6-2 last season. This place was pretty quiet. The usual suspects didn't show up, or at least weren't as vocal as they are now, until we started losing.

But see, even that statement there is going around the point. Last year before we were 6-2, there were ongoing arguments about Zorn as a Head Coach, Campbell as a starting QB, our RT position, Betts as a RB, our safety position, etc.

Some of these were good discussions. Others were just ongoning disputes where the exact same arguments were being repeated ad nauseum in the same thread. I mean, before we had Colt, the debate was JC vs Collins.

Then there's the forever ongoing discussion about the quality of our front office. Some criticize every move we make, and say our good moves happen by luck. Others have a Larry Michaels syndrome where we can do no wrong and everybody we sign is a HOFer. And yeah, even during the 6-2 start people were criticizing the selections of Malcolm Kelly and Fred Davis.

[Thinking Skins]

Personally' date=' I don't thinks it as bad at the moment compared to the pre draft QB discussions in April.

I also think there is a variety of threads that have been posted in recent times. The problem is that everyone agree's in them so they fizzle out & die very fast

I'll maybe go & bump one of my little gems to get things moving [/quote']

Yeah, around April's when I started to increase my post count in Tailgate. There are a lot more threads to just relax over there. I just find it annoying how easily a thread can get hijacked. There were some REALLY informative articles that came out this week, and I came here to see what the discussion in those articles was about and its some of these same old neverending arguments.

I'm like wow, is that all you got from the article?

[Thinking Skins]

You do realize JC is part of the offense.

but unless our offense consists of one player, we can discuss the offense without having to have it turn into a neverending argument of whether or not JC is the QB of the future.

[Annonymous Source]

Alright, I went back and re-read the OP, my post and your post. Maybe I'm missing something, and it must be your perspective because I'm essentially agreeing with the OP, and pointing out where many of the arguments as far as JC seem to stem from. I don't read many arguments about whether JC is a Game Manager or Game Leader, though I see arguments that go back and forth because of the the 2 different types. Then the posters start to take things personally and the entire argument breaks down into a virtual fistacuff of words. I'm interested to read if I am the only one that thinks that a major reason why the disagreement is because of this observation. Never the two sides seem to meet and frustration sets in between the different posters. I often wondered why others did not see it the way I did, and after reading the OP, I had an epiphany that maybe this is why there is such an argument. I have seen it posted every now an then about the Game Manager thing only to be lost in a written scuffle about whether he sucks or not. Just my observations.

1) definitly not the place for this post

2) IMO it is a not about game manager/game leader it is about what we as fans want from the starting QB. Most people will agree that JC is an AVERAGE NFL QB from last year. Some people want better and others realize that AVERAGE is a lot better than we are used to.

3) I really feel that there should just be a post that is devoted to hashing out all of these endless arguments so that they do not spill over into other threads. People would still get to have their say and others would get to stay away.

[HawaiianTime]

Alright AnnonSource, TS was primarily venting where I took it that he wanted to get to the bottom of the "Never Ending Arguments" and reach a consensus to each of the different arguments. Since he brought up the JC debate, it struck me that this argument seemed prevalent on the two different point of views of Manager and Leader. So yeah, I thought this was the right thread to bring up one of the "Never Ending Arguments". But, it is a thread about complaining about how people complain and how unfair it is that they continue to complain about the same things and bring them up in other threads that so happen to be talking about the people they are complaining about. So yes, though the complaints have relevancy, they are irrelevant because people don't want to hear the complaints.

On point #2, you stated the somewhat the same thing I pointed out. An average QB will do well as a Game Manager and an above average QB will be a Game Leader. It is difficult for a Game Manager to be a consistent Game Leader due his nature to work within the parameters of the offense and be able to carry the team consistently over multiple games. It can be just as difficult for a Game Leader to be a Game Manager, because he is forced to dial it back and realize that he doesn't need to carry the team when he has teammates that can shoulder the responsibilities. So, is the argument that JC is elite or average? Is it that the Skins need elite or average? Just my thoughts.

[Morneblade]

What I find really sad is that some topics (like Orakpo at LB) have gotten to the point of annoyance with me that I tell myself that I don't even want to read some of these threads because of all the shouting matches I've already seen based on this argument. But if you provide me a link to the thread, maybe it'll be something to let me know that the Stadium is still capable of decent dialogue.

Right here TS

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=289228&page=17

At points it got a little heated. In the end it became really indepth, with zero namecalling.

[CRobi21]

Right here TS

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=289228&page=17

At points it got a little heated. In the end it became really indepth, with zero namecalling.

Yea. I really love darrellgreenie's post. Doesn't hold too much of a bias towards any player, but when he does he'll show quotes or screen caps to back his point.

Definately one of my favorite posters.

[DirtyDevinThomas]

I agree, but I still find myself in the arguments. :'(

[RabidFan]

As the VP in Get Smart said: "If we argue, the terrorists win"

[jflow78]

My problem with those kind of posts is that it seems like no one is willing to say, "Hey that's a good point, I hadn't thought about that. Maybe I'll go think about it, along with what I already know and alter my position according to new information I've been given."

It would be WAYYYYYY to hard to admit that maybe you weren't right, or that your opinion would change since you've learned more. Instead everyone is too concerned with being right rather than actually finding the real reason for this or that.

That's why I have pretty much stopped posting. Maybe I'll start up more when I'm interested in talking to a wall for a couple hours and trying to convince it that I might have new information it hadn't thought of.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

You can't please everyone champ.

[TheLongshot]

If a solution is too easy, its probably incorrect.

Occam's Razor disagrees with you.

If the problem was that only a few posters were doing this, then it'd be easier to just ignore this. But some of the very people who do this are people who on other topics I can have some nice detailed discussions about stuff. But its just that whenever a name like Jason Campbell comes up, it strikes a nerve and they feel that they must argue for/against him.

Putting such people on ignore would make me like the stadium even less, because I'd be missing out on how much I enjoy the stadium when the talk is not about one of these neverending arguments.

It isn't putting people on "ignore". I can ignore people just fine without that. It is ignoring it when situations like this comes up. The only reason why those people have any power is that people take the bait. So, don't take the bait.

[CrypticVillain]

Thread looks like it is some good arguing. I am going to have to read it tomorrow.

[Outlaw Torn]

My problem with those kind of posts is that it seems like no one is willing to say, "Hey that's a good point, I hadn't thought about that. Maybe I'll go think about it, along with what I already know and alter my position according to new information I've been given."

It would be WAYYYYYY to hard to admit that maybe you weren't right, or that your opinion would change since you've learned more. Instead everyone is too concerned with being right rather than actually finding the real reason for this or that.

That's why I have pretty much stopped posting. Maybe I'll start up more when I'm interested in talking to a wall for a couple hours and trying to convince it that I might have new information it hadn't thought of.

Consider someone elses opinion BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!

[Thinking Skins]

It isn't putting people on "ignore". I can ignore people just fine without that. It is ignoring it when situations like this comes up. The only reason why those people have any power is that people take the bait. So, don't take the bait.

Oh, I definitely agree with this. The thing though is that as these disputes go for 20 - 40 or more posts, I tend to skip over entire pages of a thread - often missing some well thought out posts. Or like the Orakpo thread that was pointed out earlier in this thread, I ignore entire threads, assuming that the same back and forth will be discussed.

I don't doubt that I'll need to do this in the future. But I am asking people who engage in these things (myself included) to be considerate of others who are interested in the thread topic at hand and not necessarily in the minor subdiscussion.