WSJ: White House Czar Calls for End to "War On Drugs"

[stanleys]

The "war" on drugs isn't working because America refuses to treat it like a war.

Do things halfassed and you get terrible results.

Take heroin. We know where the poppy fields are, we know where the processing facilities are, we know the trade routes....it wouldn't be that difficult to nip it in the bud somewhere along the line but our government chooses not to.

I still say the poison pill route is the best way. Poison every shipment we can get our hands on. Let it be known that it's poisoned. Anyone dumb enough to still take it deserves to die.

[ACW]

The "war" on drugs isn't working because America refuses to treat it like a war.

Do things halfassed and you get terrible results.

Take heroin. We know where the poppy fields are, we know where the processing facilities are, we know the trade routes....it wouldn't be that difficult to nip it in the bud somewhere along the line but our government chooses not to.

I still say the poison pill route is the best way. Poison every shipment we can get our hands on. Let it be known that it's poisoned. Anyone dumb enough to still take it deserves to die.

:doh::doh::doh: What a freaking AWFUL idea.

[Hubbs]

Great, then it shouldn't be any trouble to ensure it stays that way by not funding treatment and rehab with public money. If people want to kill themselves off, so be it. Their right, their responsibility.

I'm struggling to understand why you think it wouldn't "stay that way." If treatment costs less than criminal trial and conviction, what would change that?

[NavyDave]

I don't think it's good for other people to say "this is bad for you" as openly as people feel the need to do so. We all do **** that's bad for us but some things people are so quick to butt in and say how it's bad for you. Lets let he without sin start casting stones.

Duck because I'm throwing.

So the weak, the irresponsible, and the selfish want the right to be self destructive but taxpayers are supposed to provide the parachute when they finally realise oh shucks I've been an idiot all this time show me some compassion.

When an idiot knowingly injects, snorts or inhale illegal drugs into their bodies to alter their state of mind, its not a disease its a weakness and total disregard of themselves, their family and society.

[nonniey]

I've said before that I'm willing to consider the merits of legalizing certain drugs, but only after I don't have to pay for the rehab / medical bills.

There needs to be an updated cost benefit analysis for legalizing drugs. The last one was in the 1980s (Found that the cost of keeping them illegal was less than the cost of legalizing them at the time). That said it was found legalizing only certain drugs (ie THC) actually exacerbates the problem. If your going to legalize, all illicit drugs must be legalized or the criminal costs will not only continue but will increase.

[Coltsfan in VA]

There needs to be an updated cost benefit analysis for legalizing drugs. The last one was in the 1980s (Found that the cost of keeping them illegal was less than the cost of legalizing them at the time). That said it was found legalizing only certain drugs (ie THC) actually exacerbates the problem. If your going to legalize all illicit drugs must be legalized or the criminal costs will not only continue but will increase.

No way that is true nowadays when Prisoners cost the state like 20-30K per year.

[NavyDave]

The "war" on drugs isn't working because America refuses to treat it like a war.

Do things halfassed and you get terrible results.

Take heroin. We know where the poppy fields are, we know where the processing facilities are, we know the trade routes....it wouldn't be that difficult to nip it in the bud somewhere along the line but our government chooses not to.

I still say the poison pill route is the best way. Poison every shipment we can get our hands on. Let it be known that it's poisoned. Anyone dumb enough to still take it deserves to die.

I was thinking the same thing. poison every shipment make sure the public knows its poisoned and if they decide to use it anyway its just Darwinism purging the herd.

[NavyDave]

The war on poverty has been a bigger failure and its weak measures have been around twice as long.

[Coltsfan in VA]

The war on poverty has been a bigger failure and its weak measures have been around twice as long.

That's why we eliminate everything that has a War on ___

[Larry]

Duck because I'm throwing.

So the weak, the irresponsible, and the selfish want the right to be self destructive but taxpayers are supposed to provide the parachute when they finally realise oh shucks I've been an idiot all this time show me some compassion.

When an idiot knowingly injects, snorts or inhale illegal drugs into their bodies to alter their state of mind, its not a disease its a weakness and total disregard of themselves, their family and society.

Good thing you've never smoked or got drunk, huh?

[twa]

No way that is true nowadays when Prisoners cost the state like 20-30K per year.

I would not be too sure of it costing less,you still are gonna have theft ,DUI,violence and other crimes as a result,as well as smuggling/home brewing/evading taxation ect....legalizing it will not make it free

Most of the dopers I know find trouble besides simply possession,but maybe you have a better class of acquaintances;)

[ACW]

The war on poverty has been a bigger failure and its weak measures have been around twice as long.

Yes, that's a failure. At least you admit the WOD is too :halo:

[stanleys]

:doh::doh::doh: What a freaking AWFUL idea.

What's awful about it? Heroin abusers are already killing themselves, it would just speed up the process and clean up the country.

I'd be in favor of legalization of marijuana, though. Treat it the exact same as alcohol as far as DUI laws.

I would change the DUI laws though. First offense is probation, counsuling, mandatory tests. Second offense would be treated as attempted homicide. Any serious injury or fatality while driving impaired would be treated the same as if a firearm was used with intent instead of a vehicle.

[luckydevil]

The "war" on drugs isn't working because America refuses to treat it like a war.

Do things halfassed and you get terrible results.

Take heroin. We know where the poppy fields are, we know where the processing facilities are, we know the trade routes....it wouldn't be that difficult to nip it in the bud somewhere along the line but our government chooses not to.

I still say the poison pill route is the best way. Poison every shipment we can get our hands on. Let it be known that it's poisoned. Anyone dumb enough to still take it deserves to die.

What the hell are you talking about? The truth is your dead wrong. We have treated like this a war. It's failing. There is a reason why anti-Americanism is rampant in Central and South America ( same applies with parts of Asia-- a big reason why we are failing in Afghanistan by the way is because we trying to fight the war on drugs as well). It's because we are treating the drug issue exactly the way you suggest we should. It's not working

[Ghost of]

What the hell are you talking about. The truth is your dead wrong. We have treated like this a war. It's failing. There is a reason why anti-Americanism is rampant in Central and South America

Yeah, Mexico is in the crapper because we failed to treat drugs seriously!! How many cops, citizens, kids and pets need to be murdered in botched raids (or maybe not so botched) to appease the bloodlust of the Drug Warriors.

I don't know how much the drug war contributes to anti-Americanism in those regions but it certainly can't HELP the situation when you're depriving poor farmers of their only income, even if they are ruled by narco-warlords. Boy, warlords..where have we heard that? OH yeah, Prohibition. And more people die from abuse of alcohol then die of heroin overdoses, as far as I recall. Definitely fewer than cigarettes, to say nothing of other health issues and nuisance from the smell.

I don't know, it seems simple to me. If you think people are free enough to choose to take a 'poison pill' heroin dose, then they are FREE enough as human beings to decide to take whatever the hell drug they want to take. The instant they transgress against another person or that person's property--then go after them. Until then, stop the militarization of police, the oppression of citizens, the stripping of our rights (FAR, FAR more damage to civil liberties than any aspect of the war on terrorism) the murder of our people, the polarization of entire ethnic communities and return dignity to a FREE people.

Our country was just fine when all these drugs were legal. No human society or endeavor to be perfect. Why use violence and oppression to stop people from altering their brain chemistry? It's ridiculous.

[luckydevil]

The Mexico example really does point out the absurdity and ultimately the amount of danger the WOD is causing. A freaking neighbor of ours is on the verge of collapse, because of this war.

Well, we have decades of failed policy on the books when it comes to the WOD. The war on terrorism is a relatively new thing ( well at least the public nature of it), so there is time. Ultimately, I tend to view both wars as essentially the same thing, the **** child of corrupt system.

[Thiebear]

Beyonce's maple syrup diet can kill you also, but not illegal, nor are triple burgers, tequila so lets not use self destruction as a reasoning for illegality.

Though i don't see this changing too much:

In 2004, 17% of state prisoners and 18% of federal inmates said they committed their current offense to obtain money for drugs.

[Baculus]

It's amazing how conservatives supposedly champion "individual liberties," until it's a social issue that they oppose. They'll talk about "states' rights," except when a state decides to legalize or decriminalize marijuana. And they'll rail against "socialism," but at the same time, support the police state and unjustifiably harsh punishments for minor, non-violent offenses.

To wit:

Welfare state = evil

Jailing millions of American citizens = good

This is the clash between economic and social conservatism -- you want laissez-faire in one regard, but oppose it in the other. You supposedly oppose the "nanny state," but would happily create such a state to maintain social control and order.

If you are going to purvey an idea, like we hear so often these days from Republicans, that government is too involved in the lives of citizens, then it has to be across the board. Otherwise, it's a bunch of hypocritical and inauthentic intonation of classical liberal and libertarian ideals.

Really, though, is this what to expect if the current American Right had their way with "states' rights"? Is this the "individual liberties" that Rush Limbaugh had the audacity to mention during his so-called "First Televised Speech to the Nation"?

[twa]

Bac, when ya'll gonna do something about it?

Last time I checked ya'll control the government ...lead:)

or were you talking to the social cons in the Dem party?:evilg:

[ACW]

It's amazing how conservatives supposedly champion "individual liberties," until it's a social issue that they oppose. They'll talk about "states' rights," except when a state decides to legalize or decriminalize marijuana. And they'll rail against "socialism," but at the same time, support the police state and unjustifiably harsh punishments for minor, non-violent offenses.

To wit:

Welfare state = evil

Jailing millions of American citizens = good

This is the clash between economic and social conservatism -- you want laissez-faire in one regard, but oppose it in the other. You supposedly oppose the "nanny state," but would happily create such a state to maintain social control and order.

If you are going to purvey an idea, like we hear so often these days from Republicans, that government is too involved in the lives of citizens, then it has to be across the board. Otherwise, it's a bunch of hypocritical and inauthentic intonation of classical liberal and libertarian ideals.

Really, though, is this what to expect if the current American Right had their way with "states' rights"? Is this the "individual liberties" that Rush Limbaugh had the audacity to mention during his so-called "First Televised Speech to the Nation"?

:applause:

Libertarianism FTW! :peaceout:

[Special K]

There are no costs associated with legalization.

:hysterical:

There needs to be an updated cost benefit analysis for legalizing drugs. The last one was in the 1980s (Found that the cost of keeping them illegal was less than the cost of legalizing them at the time). That said it was found legalizing only certain drugs (ie THC) actually exacerbates the problem. If your going to legalize, all illicit drugs must be legalized or the criminal costs will not only continue but will increase.

Yeah, I would like to see some current cost-benefit analysis as well...

[Burgold]

Sounds to me like they are just playing semantics. I do think that the language of the anti-druggies has been awful. "From just say no" to "The War on Drugs" and even the "Drug Czar" the use of language has been wretched. I mean seriously doesn't a drug czar sound like he would be the guy running the drug market, some sort of mafia kingpin?

As to the issue, I don't know where I stand. It's crazy to me what people choose to do to themselves. Do they have the right to slowly comit suicide or make themselves nonfunctional and non contributing? I guess they do, but they shouldn't.

The issue of drugs is one of parenting. Who's the parent? The State. The Feds. The parents. The abuser. Who's responsible for self destructive behavior? The "conservative" side of me says if they want to wreck themselves go have a blast. The "liberal" side of me says we ought to try to protect the larger society from people doing stupid things to themselves.

I do think I'm beginning to believe that if tobacco and booze is legal than marijuana should be too. Mind you, I wouldn't mind if they were all taken off the market, but we've decades... centuries?... of evidence that that doesn't work.

So, what do we do with people who need to escape and are self destructive or are weak willed?

Frankly, we deserve better than a semantic answer.

[NavyDave]

Yes, that's a failure. At least you admit the WOD is too :halo:

Only because they are going about it in a wussy way. I'd destroy the fields where they are grown here and in the primary nations growing the poison, have the military at the borders build more prisons and increase the sentences for use and trafficking to a minimum of 10 years to a maximum of life.

[NavyDave]

Good thing you've never smoked or got drunk, huh?

Correct never smoked cigarettes or mary jane or got stinking drunk.

[ixcuincle]

Whoa it's MSF!