the fall of the Phoenix Coyotes:UPDATE

[MattFancy]

What is this bull**** about naming a sports team an adjective?

I never understood it either. Its funny that the only teams like that are in the NBA and NHL. Heat, Jazz, Thunder, Magic, and Wild. There are no NFL teams or MLB teams like that.

[88Comrade2000]

Betteman is an idiot. Always has been.

He's holding this up, because he wants the owners to agree to a sale to a certain guy (whoever it is), so they can make some scratch off of it. The fact that Ballsile went about it without going through the NHL is what is making Betteman act stupider than usual.

Fixing the NHL is easy, actually.

1)- Forget about attracting casual fans. The only way you draw casual fans in is by winning. (See the Caps thread on ES! )

2)- Contract or move the following teams. Florida, Phoenix, Columbus, Nashville, Atlanta

3)- Put more teams back in Canada.

4)- Most importantly, bring back the Whale.

Columbus is fine for hockey. Attendance did slip in recent years because the expansion team hadn't made the playoffs. Well, this year it finally did; albeit a brief appearance. Columbus will only grow as the team becomes a regular playoff team.

Hockey isn't going to contract.

[Die Hard]

The NHL probably needs to contract 4 teams and move at least 2 teams to Canada. The rapid expansion to the Sun Belt just killed the league and is dragging the other teams down with it. If it was a largely NorthEast and Canadian League' date=' you could probably get a better, more specific cable deal, you would get more and better home games for the remaining teams, and you wouldn't have the competitive balance all out of whack.

I just don't see how the NHL manages to survive as it is currently constructed.[/quote']

Agreed. Though I'm not sure about moving 2 teams to Canada.

Just like the Expos - of whom I was a fan of before I jumped on that failing ship -- if a city can't support a team.... then screw'em. Move the team. Simple as that.

The Winnipeg Jets left... the Quebec Nordiques left. I'm not sure where else you could put an NHL franchise in Canada.

All this talk about moving a franchise to Canada is silly. More specifically, Hamilton. It may happen.... but it's going to fail. Everyone here is already a hockey fan.... and they have their teams. It's either the Leafs/Sabres.... or anyone else.

No one is going to support a new team in the city. Hamilton is FILLED with Sabres fans. You think they're just going to switch allegiance?

It's going to take generations before they can develop their brand. And in 10 years... the team will be bankrupt.

[No_Pressure]

Atlanta- State Bird is the Thrasher

Florida- There are Panthers (believe it or not) in the everglades. Brown in color, not black

Nashville- Nashville is known for country music and the Titans (they have a replica of the Parthenon in Nashville, hence the name Titans), so Predators is just a generic name

Phoenix- You guys are kidding right? Tons of Coyotes in Arizona.

I'm not saying they aren't based off of something in the state, I'm saying they're all terrible and uninteresting bland names.

Cat names for teams have to be the most boring sports team names ever, dog names are second behind them, bird names third, and pulling up the rear is a tie between any variation of bee/wasp, and bulls/bison.

I know it seems nit-picky but I think a team name should be more unique.

[artmonkforHOF]

I'd propose a multi-league deal in which Hamilton gets the Coyotes, but Toronto has to take the Bills.

Both leagues win. The CFL loses.

why? the bills can make money if their owner took the name off the stadium, he is throwing away $5mill/year just with that move.

I get why a marketing guy might not think Southern Ontario can support a franchise if you crunch the numbers, but I would hazard to guess that 80% of parents in this area wake up at 5am or earlier, just so they can drive their kid 45 minutes away to get 20 minutes of ice time. Some of you may say to yourself "why do they get up that earlier?" and the reason is, it's the only time little leagues can get ice time, the rest of the day at the arena is filled with minor league hockey teams practice, men's leagues games, highschool teams, and other rec leagues who will pay a premium to get "prime ice time"

Heck, I work with guys who play in a rec league and their games don't START until 11:00pm at the earliest, and these guys play during the week. You ask if they stayed up and watched the blue jays game from the west coast last night, and they all say "no, I was in bed already, it's on too late" but for hockey, there is no such thing as too late for them, they love the game too much to not play.

that is the main differnece, around here, people are nuts for hockey. Canadian Tv networks are the only ones who actually pay the NHL for boradcast rights, NBC pays nothing and VERSUS essentially pays nothing. I am not saying that a Hamilton team could generate as much revenue as Toronto-the big cash cow of the league- but they could make more money than some of the US teams and in general, make a healthier NHL. this might hurt Buffalo a bit, but I really only see their ticket sales maybe dropping by about 10% at most.

But I ask again, why is Bettman so set on trying to make teams work in cities that have decided hockey is not that important to them?

[mjah]

:rant::soapbox:

What is this bull**** about naming a sports team an adjective? The Minnesota Wild, The Miami Heat, The Orlando Magic, etc.

:secret: Those are all nouns, with the exception of Wild which can be either a noun or an adjective -- but is probably used as a noun for the team name.

[No_Pressure]

:secret: Those are all nouns, with the exception of Wild which can be either a noun or an adjective -- but is probably used as a noun for the team name.

But they're using them as adjectives, like the team is Magic, maybe not with Heat but you know what I'm saying, figure out a way for a person to be "a" Heat and have that make any sense at all please.

[artmonkforHOF]

Hamilton? You are 30 miles from Buffallo, and 30 miles from Toronto, I don't see how that small of an area can support 3 teams, sure, if there was only one team in the area, I can see it working, but if Buffallo and Toronto suddenly feild good teams, and Hamilton sucks, no one will switch to become a Hamilton fan, and they will fail too.

you obviously haven't been to southern Ontario. read my other post about how people get up as earlier as 5am to play/practice hockey and will play in rec leagues that start at 11pm at night during the week, people around here are obsessed with hockey. There are thousands of little hockey rinks all over this area, and every single one is filled year round (yes, even in the middle of summer) with people willing to pay for the ice time. we have an entire chain of stores that only buy/sell used hockey equipment, mechanics who exclusively service Zamboni's and enough casual fans and palyers to start a hockey army. In June, Wayne Gretzky's dad is holding a street hockey tournament for cahrity in Brantford (close to Hamilton) and they already have over 8,000 teams who paid $300 just to enter, and registration has only been open for less than a month.

when Ballsile almost bought Nashville, the deal still had not been approved, and 15,000 people (then max number they allowed) put down $500 to $1500 deposits for season tickets IN LESS THAN 36 HOURS. As sad as it is, I could see people around here buying hockey tickets before they paid off their bills or even feed their children.

Needless to say, people around here love their hockey, and would go nuts for NHL hockey, even if it's a dud of a team. look at the leafs, they sucked for a long time and suck right now, but the building is sold out every single night.

[Dictator]

But they're using them as adjectives, like the team is Magic, maybe not with Heat but you know what I'm saying, figure out a way for a person to be "a" Heat and have that make any sense at all please.

the thrasher is a type of bird i think.

edit : i see this was already covered.

[artmonkforHOF]

Agreed. Though I'm not sure about moving 2 teams to Canada.

Just like the Expos - of whom I was a fan of before I jumped on that failing ship -- if a city can't support a team.... then screw'em. Move the team. Simple as that.

The Winnipeg Jets left... the Quebec Nordiques left. I'm not sure where else you could put an NHL franchise in Canada.

All this talk about moving a franchise to Canada is silly. More specifically, Hamilton. It may happen.... but it's going to fail. Everyone here is already a hockey fan.... and they have their teams. It's either the Leafs/Sabres.... or anyone else.

No one is going to support a new team in the city. Hamilton is FILLED with Sabres fans. You think they're just going to switch allegiance?

It's going to take generations before they can develop their brand. And in 10 years... the team will be bankrupt.

true, some will still be Sabres fans, but didn't they say the same thing about Ottawa? they are all Leafs or Habs fans, and look at them now, they have a rabid fan base. If the team sucks, it will be hard to get people out in the beginning, since this is an intelligent hockey market. but as soon as a Hamilton team makes it farther in the playoffs than the Leafs, the Leaf haters will be out in full force, and those haters alone could fill a few NHL arenas.

And you might not go to all the games, especailly if the team sucks, but then how do you explain the leafs? even back in the ballard days, with no hope of winning anything, The Gardens was filled every night.

[PokerPacker]

Have I ever mentioned how much I hate Bettman? Anyone remember when Pittsburgh was going bankrupt and about to move? Bettman couldn't have that happen, so he gave the Penguins the number two pick in the draft. and then the number 1 the very next year (during the lockout when EVERYONE was entered into the lottery), and then number 2 the year after that. All of the sudden, the Penguins aren't bankrupt anymore and they're a "model franchize" according to Bettman. WELL OF COURSE THEY'LL DO WELL IF YOU RIG IT TO GIVE THEM EVERYTHING! **** you Bettman, and leave the NHL to people who know hockey.

[mjah]

But they're using them as adjectives, like the team is Magic, maybe not with Heat but you know what I'm saying, figure out a way for a person to be "a" Heat and have that make any sense at all please.

The adjective would be magical. Magic is just a singular noun, referring to the phenomenon (not an adjective). Same with names like Heat, Wild, and Jazz. They're referring to nebulous phenomena rather than discrete things. The distinction is singular noun vs. plural noun.

I think the idea sucks, by the way. Why name your team after a singular noun?

The only exception would have been Washington Justice, which would have been awesome since they could have played on the Supreme Court. Imagine the marketing: "Justice Rules."

Aside from that exception, the whole idea stinks. As bad as the Wizards' name is, Washington Wizardry would be worse.

[zoony]

I think Hockey really needs to get its TV deals figured out before they do anything else. Maybe they treat it as a loss-leader in the name of growing the sport.

*edit*

oh, and "Wizards" is without question the worst name in the history of professional sports. I'm surprised they didn't go with the Washington tinkerbells or fairies.

....

[Titaw]

Hey AMHOF, how do you spell the part of the football team that is trying to stop the other team from scoring?

[Dictator]

I think Hockey really needs to get its TV deals figured out before they do anything else. Maybe they treat it as a loss-leader in the name of growing the sport.

*edit*

oh, and "Wizards" is without question the worst name in the history of professional sports. I'm surprised they didn't go with the Washington tinkerbells or fairies.

....

I don't know man. Mighty Ducks. A team named after a disney movie. And I am a fan of disney.

[heyholetsgogrant]

I think Hockey really needs to get its TV deals figured out before they do anything else. Maybe they treat it as a loss-leader in the name of growing the sport.

*edit*

oh, and "Wizards" is without question the worst name in the history of professional sports. I'm surprised they didn't go with the Washington tinkerbells or fairies.

....

The finalist for the names at the time were the Dragons, Express, Stallions, Sea Dogs, or Wizards. I really really wanted the team to be called the Express. Heck even seadogs sounds cool....but wizards :doh:

[artmonkforHOF]

Hey AMHOF, how do you spell the part of the football team that is trying to stop the other team from scoring?

In the land of the rabid hockey fans, we spell it defence. (even though this progams spell check highlights it as wrong, same with colour and centre)

[Titaw]

The finalist for the names at the time were the Dragons, Express, Stallions, Sea Dogs, or Wizards. I really really wanted the team to be called the Express. Heck even seadogs sounds cool....but wizards :doh:

Wizards was picked for the alliteration, Washington Wizards sounds right, it may be teh ghey, but it sounds right.

[artmonkforHOF]

I think Hockey really needs to get its TV deals figured out before they do anything else. Maybe they treat it as a loss-leader in the name of growing the sport.

*edit*

oh, and "Wizards" is without question the worst name in the history of professional sports. I'm surprised they didn't go with the Washington tinkerbells or fairies.

....

true TV deals would help but you need to fix so much more before you can even begin to ask for any money from a US network or ESPN. why not just have another Canadian team since there is a 3 way bidding war for TV rights as it is? Instead of trying to squeeze Coyotes games on NBC or VERSUS for no money, the CBC, TSN and SPORTSNET would gladly pay an extra 1/6 of what they already pay to broadcast more Canadian NHL games.

[mjah]

The finalist for the names at the time were the Dragons, Express, Stallions, Sea Dogs, or Wizards. I really really wanted the team to be called the Express. Heck even seadogs sounds cool....but wizards :doh:

The DC Express would have been good.

[SackMachine]

Hey AMHOF, how do you spell the part of the football team that is trying to stop the other team from scoring?

Defense in the USA

Defence everywhere else

There are 30 teams in the NHL, 6 of which are Canadian teams. "Canada's game" needs more Canadian teams.

I think its ridiculous that Gary Bettman wouldn't move a team to hamilton because theres other teams in the area. He's got Anahein & San Jose in California, Florida and Tampa Bay in the state of Florida.

Im pretty confident that in those cities, kids dont play hockey in the street in summer and hockey on an outside rink in winter.

Im hopeful to see what happens at 4, but since the decision is left to Gary Bettman, I dont see it ending well.

[panel]

you obviously haven't been to southern Ontario. read my other post about how people get up as earlier as 5am to play/practice hockey and will play in rec leagues that start at 11pm at night during the week, people around here are obsessed with hockey. There are thousands of little hockey rinks all over this area, and every single one is filled year round (yes, even in the middle of summer) with people willing to pay for the ice time. we have an entire chain of stores that only buy/sell used hockey equipment, mechanics who exclusively service Zamboni's and enough casual fans and palyers to start a hockey army. In June, Wayne Gretzky's dad is holding a street hockey tournament for cahrity in Brantford (close to Hamilton) and they already have over 8,000 teams who paid $300 just to enter, and registration has only been open for less than a month.

when Ballsile almost bought Nashville, the deal still had not been approved, and 15,000 people (then max number they allowed) put down $500 to $1500 deposits for season tickets IN LESS THAN 36 HOURS. As sad as it is, I could see people around here buying hockey tickets before they paid off their bills or even feed their children.

Needless to say, people around here love their hockey, and would go nuts for NHL hockey, even if it's a dud of a team. look at the leafs, they sucked for a long time and suck right now, but the building is sold out every single night.

I am not trying to question Hamilton's hockey dedication, but look at North Carolina, For years their closest football team has been the redskins. Then they get the Carolina Panthers, A lot of North Carolina is Still redskins Territory, because of the loyalty that a lot of the people there have.

I see Hamilton in a similar situation, not only do they need the support, they need enough draw to undo the support for the current teams that are already close by. If the new team struggles while Buffalo and Toronto make Stanley cup runs, I don't see enough people giving up years of dedication to one of these teams to switch over.

In a leafs-Hamilton game, you would definetly have more leafs jerseys than Hamilton jerseys, in Hamilton.

[artmonkforHOF]

I am not trying to question Hamilton's hockey dedication, but look at North Carolina, For years their closest football team has been the redskins. Then they get the Carolina Panthers, A lot of North Carolina is Still redskins Territory, because of the loyalty that a lot of the people there have.

I see Hamilton in a similar situation, not only do they need the support, they need enough draw to undo the support for the current teams that are already close by. If the new team struggles while Buffalo and Toronto make Stanley cup runs, I don't see enough people giving up years of dedication to one of these teams to switch over.

In a leafs-Hamilton game, you would definetly have more leafs jerseys than Hamilton jerseys, in Hamilton.

your argument is logically, but the people's obsession with hockey, especailly NHL hockey is not logical at all. In my nieghbourhood of Hamilton, I overheard people in coffee shops complaining about the timing of the nashville deal season ticket drive and how they could not make the deposit deadline becasue their unemployment checks did not arrive until after the deposit deadline. Again, I am not saying it could make as much as Toronto, but it could make more money than most US franchises (Detroit, NYR & Colorado excluded). not to mention the TV revenue, which might be in Canadian dollars, but anything is better than the Zero dollars they get from NBC.

[Hubbs]

What is a Heat? I'm a Heat, they are Heats. Heat describes a temperature. They are temperatures? It isn't a thing a person can be. What is a Wild? The name in it's current form doesn't mean wilderness...if it did it would have to be wilderness to be correct grammatically, so it must be an adjective like "Wow that team sure is wild". Individuals can be wild but individuals cannot be "a" wild. What is a wild? It isn't a thing. A Magic isn't a thing. A Steeler isn't a thing. It drives me nuts, and I'm sure I am the only one but still.:rant:

I'm pretty sure a Steeler actually is a thing. It was an old-school way of referring to steel mill workers, just like "Packer" was an old-school way of referring to meat packers.

[Sticksboi05]

They need to first move the NHL to a real network like say...ESPN and get rid of VERSUS. Two hat tricks in a single game and like 80 people are watching it, 40 of whom are Caps/Pens fans...