Chinese Develop Special "Kill Weapon" to Destroy U.S. Aircraft Carriers

[BigMike619]

And even then, special forces from around the world are notoriously over-rated. Especially the Israelis.

Just got done reading Vengeance... who trains Israeli agents and special forces? You guessed it, Americans. :doh: Oh, and without our aid and military hardware they're little more than a third world army.

However, British SAS- they're probably the only force in the world that rivals Navy SEALS

thats actually who I was thinking of. I used to love Marcinko books and how Seal Team 6 would train with the SAS on joint ventures. I mean, we all KNOW nobody holds a candle to us but theyre pretty tuff too.

[Hubbs]

Oh we would win. But it would be bloody. Such a ship killer missile would be very deadly and I would assume that most of it is true.

It'd be "very deadly" if it could hit the broad side of a barn. A ballistic missile with that kind of range built with China's current technology isn't likely to actually come down close enough to the targeted carrier to damage it. Color me un-scared.

[Hubbs]

:secret:Nobody else has aircraft carriers.

:secret: That's not true.

[Spec138]

It'd be "very deadly" if it could hit the broad side of a barn. A ballistic missile with that kind of range built with China's current technology isn't likely to actually come down close enough to the targeted carrier to damage it. Color me un-scared.

I would imagine it's speed would make it somewhat more inaccurate as well.

[Larry]

IIRC it was even part of Clancy's Red Storm Rising... the R2D2 getting confused with multiple targets and missing

Actually, the problem I've heard about is that it has a tendency to completely run out of ammo (I think it can empty it's magazine in a few seconds) firing at a target that's already killed. And then firing at the biggest piece of the target it's already killed. And then firing at the splashes made by the pieces of the target it killed.

From what I heard, it pretty much fires at anything it can get a radar echo from. From what I understand, in some firing modes, it fires at waves.

OTOH, it's really designed for only one mission, and that mission is :yikes:

[Hubbs]

I would imagine it's speed would make it somewhat more inaccurate as well.

Unfortunately, it's still actually not fast enough, because we'd pick up on any ballistic missile launch almost instantly, and if this weapon were actually of significant concern, word would immediately be sent out to all carriers to move/change course, which, at upwards of 20 knots, would allow them to get a couple miles away by the time the missile actually got there.

[zoony]

Actually, the problem I've heard about is that it has a tendency to completely run out of ammo (I think it can empty it's magazine in a few seconds) firing at a target that's already killed. And then firing at the biggest piece of the target it's already killed. And then firing at the splashes made by the pieces of the target it killed.

From what I heard, it pretty much fires at anything it can get a radar echo from. From what I understand, in some firing modes, it fires at waves.

OTOH, it's really designed for only one mission, and that mission is :yikes:

4500 rounds per minute. (75 rounds per second)

Yes, it sounds just like a sewing machine

[Spec138]

Unfortunately, it's still actually not fast enough, because we'd pick up on any ballistic missile launch almost instantly, and if this weapon were actually of significant concern, word would immediately be sent out to all carriers to move/change course, which, at upwards of 20 knots, would allow them to get a couple miles away by the time the missile actually got there.

I guess it depends of how far away the ships were. At 7600 mi/h it could get to the USA in about what, like 20 or 30 minutes?

But I don't see them hitting a carrier anytime soon, carriers are pretty small targets from that far away.

Also, anyone have a video of that R2-D2 thing?

[Larry]

Is everybody just assuming that this thing doesn't have any kind of active terminal guidance?

As I understand it, our anti-ship missiles, like Harpoon, are launched at a set of lat/long coordinates. The missile flies there, then it "pops up" to altitude, switches on a radar that it carries, and "looks around". If there are any surface ships anywhere within (some distance that I'm sure is classified, but I bet it's miles.) then it hits that ship.

They don't have to know where the Nimitz will be, plus or minus 20 feet, to minutes from now. They just have to know where it will be within a few miles.

[Spec138]

Is everybody just assuming that this thing doesn't have any kind of active terminal guidance?

As I understand it, our anti-ship missiles, like Harpoon, are launched at a set of lat/long coordinates. The missile flies there, then it "pops up" to altitude, switches on a radar that it carries, and "looks around". If there are any surface ships anywhere within (some distance that I'm sure is classified, but I bet it's miles.) then it hits that ship.

They don't have to know where the Nimitz will be, plus or minus 20 feet, to minutes from now. They just have to know where it will be within a few miles.

This is true, but for one it has to be close enough to be able to adjust it's course and two, it has to be able to have the technology to compensate for any kind of error.

[BigMike619]

I know were all worried about the Phalanx but dont forget that for every carrier out there floating there are at least 3-5 small boys circled around them making sure they are safe.

[armstrong001]

Unfortunately, it's still actually not fast enough, because we'd pick up on any ballistic missile launch almost instantly, and if this weapon were actually of significant concern, word would immediately be sent out to all carriers to move/change course, which, at upwards of 20 knots, would allow them to get a couple miles away by the time the missile actually got there.

From the OP:

Supporting the missile is a network of satellites, radar and unmanned aerial vehicles that can locate U.S. ships and then guide the weapon, enabling it to hit moving targets.

UAVs and radar might not be as much of a problem. I don't know if they are relying on US GPS satelites or if they have their own. If they are using ours, then the satelites could possibly be made to "go offline" for enough time, or give out false information so as to affect the trajectory of the missle. If they are using their own and shoot first, I don't think that there's enough time to knock them out before a missle would hit.

[armstrong001]

I believe the Navy is more concerned about the Kilo-class diesel submarines that China bought from Russia a few years back. A diesel sub running on batteries is quieter than a nuclear sub. If they were in the right place, they could wait at the ocean floor for the carrier group to pass overhead, then hit it with torpedos.

[Thiebear]

China couldn't beat us if they had a head start.

Well, unless they bought 2.9trillion in the Euro and gave up the dollar.

That would be devastating.

We would then have to sell UK/France some carriers quick.

[BigMike619]

China couldn't beat us if they had a head start.

Well, unless they bought 2.9trillion in the Euro and gave up the dollar.

That would be devastating.

We would then have to sell UK/France some carriers quick.

well it wouldnt be the first time we sell stuff to foreign countries. but of course we will strip it down of ALL valuable and cryptic devices.

[Hubbs]

I guess it depends of how far away the ships were. At 7600 mi/h it could get to the USA in about what, like 20 or 30 minutes?

But I don't see them hitting a carrier anytime soon, carriers are pretty small targets from that far away.

Also, anyone have a video of that R2-D2 thing?

Well, a couple things...

1. I believe that's 7600 mph absolute speed, so you've gotta factor in the fact that it's not traveling on a flat line, it's on an arcing ballistic trajectory.

2. Assuming they'd use one on a carrier that's between 1000 and 2000 miles away, and that carrier's already moving at over 20 knots and makes a drastic course change within a couple of minutes, that's a good four or five miles away that it'll be from its initial projected location.

Is everybody just assuming that this thing doesn't have any kind of active terminal guidance?

As I understand it, our anti-ship missiles, like Harpoon, are launched at a set of lat/long coordinates. The missile flies there, then it "pops up" to altitude, switches on a radar that it carries, and "looks around". If there are any surface ships anywhere within (some distance that I'm sure is classified, but I bet it's miles.) then it hits that ship.

They don't have to know where the Nimitz will be, plus or minus 20 feet, to minutes from now. They just have to know where it will be within a few miles.

That's true. However, one, this would only work if the missile could actually maintain communication with the sats, and we're light years ahead of China in terms of electronic warfare. It would also only work if the sats were still in the sky, and we can shoot them down. It would also only work while the missile could still make adjustments, and there's a certain point in the trajectory when the warhead separates from the rocket and has pretty limited adjustment capabilities.

In other words, does it theoretically have active guidance? Yes. Would it actually be a factor in a shooting war? Not likely.

[RammsteinSkins]

For some reason the weapon that North Korea made in Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory where the UAV (maybe) had lasers...oooh scary.

[pez]

Can't a phalanx take it out?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

[armstrong001]

Can't a phalanx take it out?

That's a last ditch weapon when all else fails. The range of the Phalanx system is 1-5 miles. If the warhead is approaching at Mach 10, or a little over 2 miles per second, you've only got two seconds before it hits by the time it enters the gun's range. You don't want to depend on this to protect a $4.5 billion (plus aircraft and crew) asset.

[Titaw]

Nothing new other than increased range.

We have a few toys of our own.

Yes and our toys are better!!!

China has nukes. That would be suicide.

I'm not scared of China's nukes unless they fired them off all at once.

It'd be "very deadly" if it could hit the broad side of a barn. A ballistic missile with that kind of range built with China's current technology isn't likely to actually come down close enough to the targeted carrier to damage it. Color me un-scared.

I was going to post the same thing. China would have to get EXTREMELY lucky to hit one of out carriers.

That's true. However, one, this would only work if the missile could actually maintain communication with the sats, and we're light years ahead of China in terms of electronic warfare. It would also only work if the sats were still in the sky, and we can shoot them down. It would also only work while the missile could still make adjustments, and there's a certain point in the trajectory when the warhead separates from the rocket and has pretty limited adjustment capabilities.

In other words, does it theoretically have active guidance? Yes. Would it actually be a factor in a shooting war? Not likely.

I have to disagree to a certain extent there. China's EW is alomst on par with us. We are not as far ahead as many might think. In fact, there are some areas in which we are falling behind.

[Sticksboi05]

China has notoriously been a punching bag for other nations throughout history. It's not on their side. They aren't very mobile, but taking the war to them would be pretty ugly. Huge army.

The U.S. would have the advantage with BY FAR the largest and most advanced navy in the world as well as the most advanced air force (F22 FTW). The same is true about or air force. The casualties would be huge but our technology would likely pay off.

[Pskins]

With all due respect:

****w China, whatever weapon they have claimed to have built. It's still a stone aged bow and arrow compared to this beast.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/12/northrop-grummans-laser-system-passes-second-major-milestone/

Bring it on baby, Bring it on.

[The Sisko]

China couldn't beat us if they had a head start.

Well, unless they bought 2.9trillion in the Euro and gave up the dollar.

That would be devastating.

We would then have to sell UK/France some carriers quick.

I had a very similar thought. Namely, why would the Chinese really need to worry much about our carriers or any of our military for that matter. They've got a lot more powerful leverage these days. Of course as someone else alluded to earlier, without us buying their cheap exports they'd be in trouble in short order. I guess it's a Mexican standoff.

Oh well, the guns and missiles are waaay sexier anyway.

[codeorama]

Just wondering, if we were ever to go to war with China, what are the chances of us coming out the victor?

We have geography on our side. The US would be very hard for any country to invade (other than Mexico and Canada *snicker*), but at the same time, we aren't going to be invading China anytime soon either.

[Prosperity]

Don't know much but, I'd imagine in a war with China we'd gain total air superiority from air bases in Japan and Taiwan (if we have them) and from there take out the Chinese surface ships, then the carriers can sit outside the missiles range. But I guess 2000km is farther than the range of the carrier's planes so that might not be helpful.