A Knowshon Moreno Scouting Report and Discussion Thread

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Yeah I saw that but I don't think Beanie Wells is better. He looks great because of his size, but he isn't as well rounded, doesn't run as hard, and has an injury history that is troublesome. Plus he is a big ten player, and quite frankly, played against inferior competition. In his two years as a starter, Moreno never fumbled (not once almost 500 carries!) and was never seriously hurt. That is pretty much the definition of consistency.

Personally, I think Moreno is better than Wells too.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

There will be a can't miss back next year we can snag, but for now we take the BPA at our positions of need.

Exactly.

[Going Commando]

There's no reason to draft Moreno this year. Not having game breaking speed like Chris Johnson makes him no where NEAR as effective as Chris Johnson. So why the hooplah over him? Johnson wouldn't have been quite as good as he was this season without his speed. We have big holes on defense including an End and an Outside Backer as well as needs at RT and C.

There will be a can't miss back next year we can snag, but for now we take the BPA at our positions of need.

I hear you and understand your point. But again, it comes down to a situation where we would likely have to go with the 4th or 5th best OL instead of the (IMO) best RB. Now I'd be ok with this if we traded down first, and were able to pick up another good player in an early round too, but if this isn't possible then we might as well just go with the better value anyway.

I'll add that I don't think C is much bigger of a need than RB, as Rabach is serviceable and C is not a hugely important position. Plus there is way more C depth in this draft than RB, and it looks like we'd be able to get one in the 3rd or 4th round anyway. And I'd also add that I'd be fine taking Maualuga at 13 too since I think he is the #1 ILB in the draft. But after Curry and Orakpo, there is an enormous drop off in talent at 4-3 DE and OLB, because it goes all of the way down to Clay Matthews at the end of Round 1 as the next best available. I understand there is pro Tyson Jackson talk, but wouldn't we all rather have a guy with a ceiling in the area of Portis or LT than a future Philip Daniels?

[Dmac#5]

Thing is Moreno probably isn't bpa at 13. Most scouts have him as the 2nd RB right now and some like me like Donald Brown more. IMO a RB won't be taken until the earliest 21 at the Eagles. After players like Slaton, Forte, Hightower etc being found outside of the first round teams are unwilling to give RB's big bucks, a RB at 13 would be a reach as I don't see a back going until possibly the Eagles pick or later. Lets just run it down. First off no team in the top 10 will pay a RB that type of money. Also very few teams in the top 10 need a RB. Only team is the Browns at 5 but no way in hell they are going RB. So on to the 11th pick the Bills(no, unless Marshawn is moved no need plus they like Fred Jackson.) 12 pick Broncos(Heck no, they never take 1st round RB's as they can put anyone in there, not to mention they already signed like 50 FA backs.) 14 Saints(No way, have Reggie Bush and many feel they like Pierre Thomas as the starter). 15 Texans(This is one possible spot as a complement to Slaton but neither Wells nor Moreno would be great for their ZBS. Also Gary Kubiack as publicly stated that the franchise would not take a first round RB because of the pay he would get. I will try to find the think for that comment). 16 Chargers( No way. They can't get LT off their hands, they are looking to sign Sproles to the longterm, just spent a high pick on a hybrid FB/RB.) 17 Jets(No way. First off they will try to move up to get a QB. Secondly they are looking WR, DE, or DB's in the draft. Thomas Jones was a pro bowler and Leon Washington is electrifying.) 18 Bears(No. Matt Forte one of the top backs in the league. They have no real WR, and need help on defense.) 19 Bucs(No chance in hell. They have Earnest Graham, Caddy, and now signed Derrick Ward to be starter). 20 Lions(No way. Have holes in every position but RB where they are happy with Kevin Smith). 21 Eagles(This is the first legit spot a RB might go, With 2 first rounders however, common sense says they wait to pick 28 where they can pay the RB less. Still they still have Brian Westbrook and one could figure they'd rather take a complement power back later in the draft with standouts like Shonn Greene, Andre Brown, and Rashad Jennings and instead focus on filling their O-line and defensive problems, or even finding a TE now that LJ Smith is gone or a WR to complement Djax.) 22 Vikings(AD+Chester Taylor, enough said. BTW random but I hear Vikings are in love with Josh Freeman here even after getting Sage.) 23 Patriots(Maroney, Faulk, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, Sammy Morris, recently signed Fred Taylor) 24 Falcons(No Michael Turner+Norwood). 25 Dolphins(Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Cedric Cobbs). 26 Ravens(Mcgahee, McClain, Ray Rice). 27 Colts(Addai). After that Giants and Titans won't go RB.

So as you can see the need for RB's is not huge, and don't be surprised if only a single back goes in the first round, the first RB taken could be as late as the Cardinals at 31. Expect a run on RB's early round 2 but with the subpar 40 times, no one IMO is taking a RB in the top 20 especially when NFL teams proved last season how easy it is to find a RB.

[KDawg]

I hear you and understand your point. But again, it comes down to a situation where we would have to go with the 4th or 5th best OL instead of the (IMO) best RB. Now I'd be ok with this if we traded down first, and were able to pick up another good player in an early round too, but if this isn't possible then we might as well just go with the better value anyway.

If we have to take the 4th or 5th OL and there's a solid guy sitting there at DE or OLB, we go with him instead possibly.

I have a feeling DE is going to have a short term solution in Daniels AND Wynn this upcoming season. But we still need a DE of some sort.

But they may think the band-aid is enough. Then if we sign Crowell, NOW you start looking at other positions. Until then, stick with the BPA at the positions of need.

[Dmac#5]

My issue is Moreno isn't an elite level back like you are saying. And a 4th OT/Dline is much better than taking Moreno. He is a hard working well rounded back but he isn't an elite talent.

[Mr. Grundle]

I absolutely agree with your line of thought here. For a team that only has 4 draft picks, you want to get absolute value out of each one. If you can get what you consider a top-3 talent and one of the best RB prospects in years at #13, when you would otherwise be reaching for talent at a bigger position of need, you do it without hesitation.

I slowly find myself jumping off the "draft linemen at all costs" bandwagon the more I think about this teams needs. I'd draft Moreno at 13, or Crabtree at 13, or even Matt Stafford at 13. Whatever the best value is. In my opinion there isn't a single position on offense that couldn't use an upgrade, save for TE.

I'm also a lot more skeptical of Portis maintaining his productivity and health from this point on, compared to previous seasons. I feel he has peaked, and is beginning the downturn in his career.

So yeah, I'd draft Moreno.

Problem is, we're in a predicament with Portis. He's the star player on the team, with a big time ego, making what Cooley would consider a ****ton of money. He's been known to speak out against the team, and has potential to cause issues in the locker room.

But with the money he makes, he is untradable, and un-cuttable. We're stuck with him. Even if his production does take a rapid downturn like I expect, we're still stuck with him, and his ego, for YEARS. This is another example of horrible management by Dan and Vinny.

I'll bet we're gonna wish we had Moreno by the end of next season. Portis and Betts are both done in my opinion.

That said, even with the Portis predicament, I'd still draft Moreno if he was the best value at 13. This is all assuming he is the prospect these scouts make him out to be.

[Never4get#21]

No thanks. Were tied into Portis for years. We couldnt afford the cap hit if we wanted to cut him, and Betts is tied in also.

We have more glaring concerns. Lets address the OL/LB/DE now.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I absolutely agree with your line of thought here. For a team that only has 4 draft picks, you want to get absolute value out of each one. If you can get what you consider a top-3 talent and one of the best RB prospects in years at #13,

But Moreno isn't a top-3 talent and isn't considered to be one of the best RB prospects in years.

The only folks claiming that he's this unique talent are certain members of ES.

[Dmac#5]

If we don't go Oline-Dline-or Lb, and do go BPA honestly I'd rather even take DHB or a Vontae Davis,

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If we don't go Oline-Dline-or Lb, and do go BPA honestly I'd rather even take DHB or a Vontae Davis,

I agree with you but can you imagine how ES would react if we took a WR at 13?

[Going Commando]

If we don't go Oline-Dline-or Lb, and do go BPA honestly I'd rather even take DHB or a Vontae Davis,

I'm not a huge Vontae Davis fan. I don't know why he got benched during the year, but it can't have been for anything good. Plus his brother being who he is does him no favors. He is a good prospect but he is certainly a project. DHB looks good and is incredibly fast for his size, but he was hardly a consistent player in college either. He strikes me as an athletic project receiver like Thomas, who will do best in a limited role while he develops his ability to run routes over 3 to 4 seasons. The problem is, he would be buried under Thomas and Kelly, much less Moss and ARE and would never get his chance here. Again, Moreno wouldn't be facing that kind of situation here. I like Kenny Britt and Brian Robiskie better in terms of the readiness to contribute anyway. And I like Maclin and Harvin better in terms of their greater versatility and comparable speed.

[IbleedBnG83]

In the eyes of Vinny and Dan we are. QB being the biggest ?. Wouldn't you say that DE and RT are the biggest needs we need to address in the draft?

Yes of course. I just thought you meant you personally thought we were set at those positions:D

[IbleedBnG83]

SteveMcQueen,

You hadn't responded to my post were I pointed out that if we are building through the draft, we should draft those positions which take longer for rookies to get up to speed while we are still not serious contendors as suppose to waiting to at least next year to draft a running back who could likely contribute right away when we have more pieces in place.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I'm not a huge Vontae Davis fan. I don't know why he got benched during the year, but it can't have been for anything good. Plus his brother being who he is does him no favors. He is a good prospect but he is certainly a project. DHB looks good and is incredibly fast for his size, but he was hardly a consistent player in college either. He strikes me as an athletic project receiver like Thomas, who will do best in a limited role while he develops his ability to run routes over 3 to 4 seasons. The problem is, he would be buried under Thomas and Kelly, much less Moss and ARE and would never get his chance here. Again, Moreno wouldn't be facing that kind of situation here. I like Kenny Britt and Brian Robiskie better in terms of the readiness to contribute anyway. And I like Maclin and Harvin better in terms of their greater versatility and comparable speed.

IMO, Macklin and Harvin don't have comparable speed to DHB.

Though Macklin is clearly a more polished WR.

[Going Commando]

SteveMcQueen,

You hadn't responded to my post were I pointed out that if we are building through the draft, we should draft those positions which take longer for rookies to get up to speed while we are still not serious contendors as suppose to waiting to at least next year to draft a running back who could likely contribute right away when we have more pieces in place.

Your idea makes sense, but with the way our defense is constructed, I think our window for winning a championship is over the next four maybe five seasons, with little chance of winning one next year. For us to realize our goal in this window, we really need Campbell and the passing game to mature, and this is the time span in which it would take place (if its ever going to). Knowing that it is less likely that we will be better next season than in the following ones, it does make sense to draft players that take a little while to develop to get them ready for that future push. But the draft is less about what we'd like to do then what we can do. We only have four picks--we need to hit with them and so our picks need to be value oriented.

Drafting a guy like Oher who is some what of a project makes a lot of sense if he is there, because his development coincides with our window and he offers (IMO) elite value at the position. Same with Maualuga and A. Smith. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find other guys outside of those three who will likely be around at 13 that you could say the same about.

[Gregpeck99]

Amen SteveMcQueen ... and if Moreno isn't available ... the Skins must grab Percy Harvin. You grab an offensive skill player that has impact and changes games everytime you can.

[Going Commando]

Amen SteveMcQueen ... and if Moreno isn't available ... the Skins must grab Percy Harvin. You grab an offensive skill player that has impact and changes games everytime you can.

Harvin wouldn't be a great pick at 13 because I really think we could trade down late into the first round and still get him. He is definitely a great player, but his draft stock is low enough that we could milk more out of the 13th pick than by just spending it on him.

[Dmac#5]

I'm not a huge Vontae Davis fan. I don't know why he got benched during the year, but it can't have been for anything good. Plus his brother being who he is does him no favors. He is a good prospect but he is certainly a project. DHB looks good and is incredibly fast for his size, but he was hardly a consistent player in college either. He strikes me as an athletic project receiver like Thomas, who will do best in a limited role while he develops his ability to run routes over 3 to 4 seasons. The problem is, he would be buried under Thomas and Kelly, much less Moss and ARE and would never get his chance here. Again, Moreno wouldn't be facing that kind of situation here. I like Kenny Britt and Brian Robiskie better in terms of the readiness to contribute anyway. And I like Maclin and Harvin better in terms of their greater versatility and comparable speed.

Thing is Davis has the tools to be elite if he gets time to develop. If a team throws him to the wolves he will bust poorly. With the Skins however he can sit behind Rogers and Deangelo and work his way as a nickel until he gets comfortable and might eventually replace Los. Davis has the tools, a playmaker with great hands, elite speed, big and strong. He is just inconsistent at this point. Also in terms of DHB comparing to Devin Thomas, Thomas is pretty fast and quick, but DHB is in a whole different world. IMO DHB steps in day one and is one of the top 5 fastest players in the NFL, and that is not an exaggeration. He is a long strider with world class speed. His #'s had more to do with incompitent QB play and horrific playcalling if anything. He has shown he can catch in traffic, he can win jump balls, and he is a freakish deep ball threat. Guys his size and speed don't come along often.

[skeenzfan]

I doubt there is any trade market for Betts. The max anbody will give up for Betts in a trade is a 5th round pick. Your proposed idea would only work if we were to get atleast a 2nd rounder for Betts.

[skeenzfan]

Running back is the easiest position to find in the NFL, you have to take a risk on that tackle, DE, or LB as they are not only needs but so much harder to find a compitent starter. You can sign a RB off the practice squad who could do admirable but you can't do the same with the other positions. I'd rather take a mid round flier on a RB especially with the depth of this class. First round seems too much for a team so limited with picks. If we can trade down and pick up Donald Brown with a 2nd I would be happy, but the 13th pick and the money that goes along with it is too much. You'd have one of the highest paid backfields in the NFL without a true O-line and QB questions.

I agree. You can look at Pittsburg this year who have Willie Parker who was a UDFA and Mwelde moore who they picked up from the street. You can have a productive running game without having a superstar RB. A good OL is more important to have a dominant running game. It's not wise to spend a lot of money on RB's. IMO Danny will get rid of CP next year when we can take the cap hit.

[Dmac#5]

I'm not trying to devalue the impact of a superstar RB, but the fact is there are fresh legs who can get the job done everywhere. However you can't just find a skilled lineman or Linebacker from anywhere.

[Veretax]

only way I see is taking him is if we trade down for more picks, he's not the value pick at 13 right now.

[Going Commando]

I doubt there is any trade market for Betts. The max anbody will give up for Betts in a trade is a 5th round pick. Your proposed idea would only work if we were to get atleast a 2nd rounder for Betts.

In my scenario trading Betts is more to get him off the depth chart and get something for him in return. Why would we need to get a 2nd rounder for him?

[Going Commando]

I'm not trying to devalue the impact of a superstar RB, but the fact is there are fresh legs who can get the job done everywhere. However you can't just find a skilled lineman or Linebacker from anywhere.

Linebackers have a similar draft stock to RBs. In fact, they typically go lower since they very rarely go in the top 5. Its usually only the future all-pros he get taken top 15, similar to running backs.

Yes, offensive tackles are definitely more rare. There are simply fewer 6'5" 300 lb guys who can move well enough to play the position in the world than there are 5'11 217 lb guys that can play running back. But what makes Moreno rare is his skill set. There aren't many 5'11 217 lb guys who can run like he does, as well as pass block, run routes, and catch the ball like him. And usually not coming out of college. There were a ton of great running backs in last years draft, but the only one that I can think of that had a comparable complete skill set was Matt Forte--and he isn't nearly as agile as Moreno.