Oldfan Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 If this team wants to win, Campbell needs to start playing good ball against good defenses instead of sucking against them. He will have to play better if we are to win more games? I don't think anyone will debate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This statement is presumptious but even if I agreed, it's obviously not apparent to Zorn or to Vinny and those are the opinions that count. And herein lies one of the Washington Redskins MAJOR problems. The aforementioned Mr Cerrato continues to be the "talent" evaluator for this ball club. :doh: And the said ball club continues to be very average in many areas talent wise. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 In our first 8 games of the season when we were 6-2: Campbell averaged 7.5 yards per pass. Campbell was sacked 23 times during this span.In our final 8 games where we went 2-6: Campbell averaged 5.5 yards per pass. Campbell was sacked 22 times during this span. Kind of clears up the "it's only the OL's fault" argument huh? And I am all for drafting OL this offseason BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 You are trying to use a team stat to grade individual performance. That doesn't work.You are comparing Jason Campbell's team to Matt Cassell's team. You are not comparing the abilities of the two QBs. Every stat in this league can be dubbed a "team stat". But a trend in a players career is a trend that demonstrates HIS ability. Campbell has shown a trend of being a dink and dunk QB which is proven by his below average yards per pass, that has no bearing on it being a team stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 And herein lies one of the Washington Redskins MAJOR problems.The aforementioned Mr Cerrato continues to be the "talent" evaluator for this ball club. :doh: And the said ball club continues to be very average in many areas talent wise. Hail. I'm really starting to believe, like IHOP posted, that it's all a matter of politics. I think they know JC isn't a franchise QB. Their ego's are just too big to admit failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Every stat in this league can be dubbed a "team stat". But a trend in a players career is a trend that demonstrates HIS ability. Campbell has shown a trend of being a dink and dunk QB which is proven by his below average yards per pass, that has no bearing on it being a team stat. all of the offenses he has been in have also been considered conservative run first schemes gibbs in 06/07 zorn in 08 he's being asked to be a game manager,but the surrounding cast isn't good enough to allow success with a game managing QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm really starting to believe, like IHOP posted, that it's all a matter of politics. I think they know JC isn't a franchise QB. Their ego's are just too big to admit failure. Exactly. And that same franchise "arrogance" will probably lead to the laying out of another 8 million bucks on Jason Taylor, as they won't lose face in admitting the experiment failed. And so it continues..... Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 all of the offenses he has been in have also been considered conservative run first schemesgibbs in 06/07 zorn in 08 he's being asked to be a game manager,but the surrounding cast isn't good enough to allow success with a game managing QB. What to do? Replace the entire surrounding cast, or the QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovellj Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm really starting to believe, like IHOP posted, that it's all a matter of politics. I think they know JC isn't a franchise QB. Their ego's are just too big to admit failure. Honestly though, at this point, that doesn't make a lot of sense. They drafted Colt, and resigned Collins - they're just as linked to them as they are to JC. And if they know that JC isn't a franchise QB, there's not much need to play him anymore (he's only around for one more year anyways); if you know he's not a franchise QB, all you are doing is running the risk that he has a solid 7-8 game span (ala the beginning of this season) and you become pressured into signing him to a long-term contract. There's not a ton of pressure at this point not to make a switch. Hell, you could easily spin JC into being Gibbs' QB of choice and Brennan into being Zorn's. And, much like they seem to be doing to Rogers, you could trade JC and get a 2nd-3rd rounder. I see it as most here seem to - we don't know exactly what we've got in him, and will give him at least another half a season to try and figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Every stat in this league can be dubbed a "team stat". But a trend in a players career is a trend that demonstrates HIS ability. Why isn't a trend indicated by a team stat, a team trend? Campbell has shown a trend of being a dink and dunk QB which is proven by his below average yards per pass, that has no bearing on it being a team stat. Your logic on that one completely escapes me. How do you isolate Jason as the cause of the dink and dunk trend? How do you ignore the other factors that most likely contribute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Okay, I freely admit I didn't get to listen to the post game presser of Zorn's or read up too much on press releases this week, but has Zorn specifically stated Campbell will definitively be the starting QB next season? From what I understand, he said Campbell has earned the starting spot going into training camp and alluded to the fact that Campbell was his guy, but did not definitively come out and say that... But again, I haven't really looked at the press stuff this week and I very well could be wrong (a rare occurence, I know ) as I know different people in my family interpreted the statement different ways and we've all been half-ass arguing about it based on 2nd and 3rd gen. interpretations. So, what exactly has Zorn said about the QB? That Campbell is definitely his guy this upcomming season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 So, what exactly has Zorn said about the QB? That Campbell is definitely his guy this upcomming season? According to Vinny, it's season to season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 What to do? Replace the entire surrounding cast, or the QB? Why the ENTIRE surrounding cast and not just the faulty parts, like a stud OT in place of Jansen for pass protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Why isn't a trend indicated by a team stat, a team trend?Your logic on that one completely escapes me. How do you isolate Jason as the cause of the dink and dunk trend? How do you ignore the other factors that most likely contribute? What other factors? A sample size of 30 games is enough to get a basic understanding. I posted trends in my first post of this thread. These are trends that have been legit for years. If you want to discredit the stats, go ahead, it is your choice to believe them or not or view them in your own light. I am going off what I can help myself and those who are interested understand. Agree to disagree is all I can tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Why the ENTIRE surrounding cast and not just the faulty parts, like a stud OT in place of Jansen for pass protection? According to some people who have posted in this thread, the faulty parts include almost everybody except JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm really starting to believe, like IHOP posted, that it's all a matter of politics. I think they know JC isn't a franchise QB. Their ego's are just too big to admit failure.The Hope....Zorn called his West Coast offensive scheme "sound" and said Jason Campbell would remain the starting quarterback going into training camp next year. http://www.nbcwashington.com/sports/football/Redskins-Coach-Zorn-Recaps-First-Season.html I hope Zorn was just being PC (but accurate) and that maybe there will be some competition One would hope that the process THIS TIME allows for the Best QB to start after the preseason...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballin86 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 nice work on these numbers.... maybe this will help people remember that jason isn't the answer....oh wait give him 10 more years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 According to Vinny, it's season to season. So what is everyone pissing and moaning about around here (besides the fact that it's knee-jerk city ES)? If they are saying it's a season to season situation, why are people arguing as if they know exactly what's going to be happening next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 honestly i dont care whose QB as long as they get the job done. Im done sticking up for campbell for this long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Honestly though, at this point, that doesn't make a lot of sense. They drafted Colt, and resigned Collins - they're just as linked to them as they are to JC. And if they know that JC isn't a franchise QB, there's not much need to play him anymore (he's only around for one more year anyways); if you know he's not a franchise QB, all you are doing is running the risk that he has a solid 7-8 game span (ala the beginning of this season) and you become pressured into signing him to a long-term contract. There's not a ton of pressure at this point not to make a switch. Hell, you could easily spin JC into being Gibbs' QB of choice and Brennan into being Zorn's. And, much like they seem to be doing to Rogers, you could trade JC and get a 2nd-3rd rounder. I see it as most here seem to - we don't know exactly what we've got in him, and will give him at least another half a season to try and figure it out. I completely agree with you. It doesn't make any sense at all. But, IMO, neither does continuing on the same path we've been on. I have no idea if JC is the QB of the future. I don't think anyone knows for sure. All I'm suggesting is that we have an open QB competition to see who could be. As I said in a previous post, if JC wins that competition, then he deserves our respect and support. But if someone else wins, then they should have the opportunity to lead this team. If this were to happen, EVERYBODY would happy, and it would shut all of us up who want the QB competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocampo Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Ok Old, help me out here. Since the WCO depends on the timing from WR and QB aren't the WR's going to run the exact pattern on any certain play the QB throws to that spot every time. So on each play the WR and QB are supposed to go to the exact spot every time. If this is the case doesn't our offense become predictable. Most everybody on ES knows what we're going to do before the ball is snapped. Now you can see the teams we now play know it too. That's one reason our Offense looks so bad. So my Question to you is - Why can't our WR run to open spaces instead of the same place all the time?? Because we run these plays over and over again everybody knows what we're going to do. But if the WR went to the spaces where there is an opening and the QB reacts to that wouldn't we be more successful? Old, don't you remember Warren Moon, Jim Kelly? These guys were awesome at this! Love to hear your thoughts on this. I think this would make JC progress rather than regress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovellj Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Okay, I freely admit I didn't get to listen to the post game presser of Zorn's or read up too much on press releases this week, but has Zorn specifically stated Campbell will definitively be the starting QB next season?From what I understand, he said Campbell has earned the starting spot going into training camp and alluded to the fact that Campbell was his guy, but did not definitively come out and say that... But again, I haven't really looked at the press stuff this week and I very well could be wrong (a rare occurence, I know ) as I know different people in my family interpreted the statement different ways and we've all been half-ass arguing about it based on 2nd and 3rd gen. interpretations. So, what exactly has Zorn said about the QB? That Campbell is definitely his guy this upcomming season? Much like your family, it depends on what you read. JLC: "Zorn was unequivocal that Jason Campbell is the quarterback" http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/coach_zorns_final_presser_of_t.html WTOP: "Zorn called his West Coast offensive scheme "sound" and said Jason Campbell would remain the starting quarterback going into training camp next year" http://www.wtop.com/?sid=1560741&nid= I think Zorn gave Campbell some more backing than that during the PC too, but people read pretty heavily into the fact that he said training camp rather than regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 The Hope....Zorn called his West Coast offensive scheme "sound" and said Jason Campbell would remain the starting quarterback going into training camp next year. http://www.nbcwashington.com/sports/football/Redskins-Coach-Zorn-Recaps-First-Season.html I hope Zorn was just being PC and that maybe there will be some competition One would hope that the process THIS TIME allows for the Best QB to start after the preseason...... Um yeah, usually when a coach comes out and says definitively that a player will start going into TRAINING CAMP but does not mention specifics regarding the actual season, the words left unspoken speak louder than the words that are actually spoken... To me, it seems like Zorn isn't definitively locked on to JC forr '09. So again, I'm trying to figure out what the hell everyone around here is getting so upset about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 What other factors? Well, just for example, a head coach who gives his QB a dink and dunk offense to execute? Wouldn't you think that could be a factor in the QB's trend toward dinking and dunking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Matt Ryan : A Whopping 7.9 Y/A Joe Flacco: 6.9 Y/A These rookies are outperforming Campbell's paltry 6.4 y/a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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