Jason Campbell: a deeper look into his numbers this season

[#21Taylor4Ever]

Tell me he doesn't hold onto the ball too long. I know you've seen times during the game where you have screamed at JC to just throw the ball away, rather he takes the sack.

He does hold the ball too long sometimes, but he's also pressured a lot during games. I don't expect Vinny and Danny to go out and get HOF O-Linemen, but we certainly need to upgrade Jansen, Heyer, and Rabach. We also need to give our rookie receivers another season with Campbell, as I am certain their growth will help Campbell a great deal.

In a perfect world, Thomas would start opposite Kelly, Moss would take on more of a "Welker" role, and ARE would become our 4th receiver. I think this would greatly improve Campbell's chances to succeed.

[IHOPSkins]

I thought Campbell did earn his job fair and square.......

I am so tired of your JC jock sniffing :bsflag:

ASHBURN, Va. -- Even though there isn't a glimmer of a quarterback controversy in Washington, I'll pose the question: If Todd Collins outplays Jason Campbell in the team's five exhibition games, any chance he wins back a job that was his at the end of last season?

No," new coach Jim Zorn said, leaving no room for interpretation. "If (Collins) plays lights out, and we sputter with Jason my job is to get Jason up to speed by the time the season opens."

I guess that settles it. Campbell is the starter, Collins is the backup and the only questions out there are for some dimwit to ask.

So let me be that dimwit: Why not leave the competition open and let the better man win?

I mean, when the Redskins went to the playoffs last year it was with Collins, not Campbell. When they won their final four regular-season games -- their longest winning streak since closing the 2005 season with five straight -- it was with Collins, not Campbell.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10905810

POLITICS picked JC, not performance

[No Excuses]

Vishal, in your opinion, is YPA a measurement of:

A: The QB's ability or;

B: The QB's ability plus --

the quality of his receivers,

the quality of his protection,

the quality of the playcalling,

the quality of the scheme?

In a way, both. A quarterbacks play definitely depends on what surrounds him. But in this case, it seems to be a trend of the QB and not of the surroundings. Campbell was terrible in regards to being a vertical passer under Saunders and he was the same this season under Zorn. Campbell has had a good offensive line in the past and his entire career he has had weapons that a lot of the QB's in this league would love to have.

Schemes have an effect on a player but after a while, you need throw that out of the window and look at the totality of the numbers. Jason Campbell despite the system he has played in so far, has been a dink and dunk master. He didn't challenge defenses after being in Saunders system for two years and he didn't improve upon it in Zorn's as the season went along.

I think at this point there are too many excuses for JC, but people are ignoring a trend in his career which is regardless of when he had good protection or not. When he has had good surrounding player (mostly a good offensive line), he has still been very bad in challenging teams vertically or throwing TD's. He is a first round pick who is heading into his fifth season. Way too many question marks about his game in my opinion.

[chow184]

it's hilarious how partisan some of you are

some say campbell gets sacked because the OL sucks

other put blame on campbell because he holds the ball to long at times

others say WR's don't get open

others blame zorn for crappy playcalling

the funny thing is ALL OF YOU ARE RIGHT,THIS IS A TEAM GAME,the truth is all of those things happen to create sacks

you'd be a fool to say all the sacks are because of campbell holding onto the ball to long

you'd be a fool to say the OL is at fault for every sack

[zoony]

You are looking at a stat that reflects the efficiency of the passing game, a team stat, not the efficiency of the quarterback.

so how do you measure the efficiency of the quarterback?

And how do you isolate anything in a team game?

And I think you can say that the QB's release and decision making ability directly effects Oline and WR play.

Do you think if Tom Brady signed with us tomorrow we wouldn't see, overnight (a)less sacks ( a more prolific offense © better WR numbers across the board (d) better execution of scheme?

[#21Taylor4Ever]

So can we call you a Moss/Heyer/Zorn HATER? Or would that be juvenille and dumb?

....

Not at all. I do think we need to give Zorn another season though. Is that too much to ask for, or should we go out and sign Shanahan or Cowher now??

Isn't a bit ignorant to ONLY blame Campbell without looking at the other 11 guys on the field?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Does anyone have stats on dropped passes?

And who were the 3 most sacked QBs in the league and how do they compare with Campbell's numbers?

Just general questions

There's been a thread running the past few day's on Jason's regression.

The dropped pass stats are on this page:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=277241&page=23

The sacks are in there too somewhere.

Hail.

[RocketCitySkins]

Joe Montana: 7.5 y/a in his career. In fact averaged 9.1 in 1989

Steve Young: 8.0 y/a.

Matt Hasselbeck: 7.0 Y/A.

Jeff Garcia: 6.9 Y/A

Donovan McCnabb: 6.8 Y/A

Brett Favre: 7.0 Y/A

In comparison, Campbell has 6.4 y/a. These are all WCO QB's btw.

I guess this is the high ceiling Vinny was referring to in his press conference yesterday. The one he believes JC has.

[chow184]

so how do you measure the efficiency of the quarterback?

And how do you isolate anything in a team game?

And I think you can say that the QB's release and decision making ability directly effects Oline and WR play.

Do you think if Tom Brady signed with us tomorrow we wouldn't see, overnight (a)less sacks ( a more prolific offense © better WR numbers across the board (d) better execution of scheme?

can he get on the field with a bum knee

[zoony]

you'd be a fool to say all the sacks are because of campbell holding onto the ball to long

you'd be a fool to say the OL is at fault for every sack

I agree, which is why you look for trends.

[chow184]

Joe Montana: 7.5 y/a in his career. In fact averaged 9.1 in 1989

Steve Young: 8.0 y/a.

Matt Hasselbeck: 7.0 Y/A.

Jeff Garcia: 6.9 Y/A

Donovan McCnabb: 6.8 Y/A

Brett Favre: 7.0 Y/A

In comparison, Campbell has 6.4 y/a. These are all WCO QB's btw.

lets see YPA in their rookie years please or first year in the WC scheme

[#21Taylor4Ever]

I am so tired of your JC jock sniffing :bsflag:

ASHBURN, Va. -- Even though there isn't a glimmer of a quarterback controversy in Washington, I'll pose the question: If Todd Collins outplays Jason Campbell in the team's five exhibition games, any chance he wins back a job that was his at the end of last season?

No," new coach Jim Zorn said, leaving no room for interpretation. "If (Collins) plays lights out, and we sputter with Jason my job is to get Jason up to speed by the time the season opens."

I guess that settles it. Campbell is the starter, Collins is the backup and the only questions out there are for some dimwit to ask.

So let me be that dimwit: Why not leave the competition open and let the better man win?

I mean, when the Redskins went to the playoffs last year it was with Collins, not Campbell. When they won their final four regular-season games -- their longest winning streak since closing the 2005 season with five straight -- it was with Collins, not Campbell.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10905810

POLITICS picked JC, not performance

Jock sniffing. How clever and mature.

It's not called jock sniffing, it's called debating.

If I'm sniffing Campbell's jock by saying it's not only his fault, you must be sniffing Zorn, the receivers, and the O-Linemen's jocks for not placing any blame on them. :2cents:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

If you don't think I argue stats, we should stop debating this topic with one another. There are other people on this board who engage in healthy debates, you are not one of them.

It's funny how you say I make excuses for Campbell, yet you make excuses for the O-Line, receivers, and Zorn. Or lemme guess, you're not making excuses because your argument is legit, only I'm making excuses??

Head, brick wall, bang. :doh:

Hail.

[#21Taylor4Ever]

Joe Montana: 7.5 y/a in his career. In fact averaged 9.1 in 1989

Steve Young: 8.0 y/a.

Matt Hasselbeck: 7.0 Y/A.

Jeff Garcia: 6.9 Y/A

Donovan McCnabb: 6.8 Y/A

Brett Favre: 7.0 Y/A

In comparison, Campbell has 6.4 y/a. These are all WCO QB's btw.

You mean HOF QBs have y/a numbers simliar to Campbell? And they weren't cut, benched, or replaced by a WAC QB?? Shocking!!!!

[skinsfan190]

You don't think KC's perennially stellar offensive line had anything to do with that? I do.

How's he doing in St. Louis?

RB-check

QB-check

WR-check

OL- crappy...

Ding, Ding, Ding. Finally someone hit the nail on the head. It is funny how Jason was an MVP canidate when our offensive line was playing great and we were 6-2. Then we faced the steelers, ravens, giants, and cowboys and our offensive line was HORRIBLE, now Jason isn't the answer and can't play.:doh:

IMO Jason has shown me time after time he can get it done. Even against the 49ers, that last drive was great. He took the team on his shoulders and scored. Our o-line was horrible the second half of the season and our recievers didn't help. They must get open, thats the WCO run after the catch. Lastly the play calling is horrible. We must see MAJOR improvement in play calling. IT IS SAD WHEN A 0-16 TEAM SCORES MORE POINTS THEN U. If Zorn doesn't change this scheme we won't even win 8 games next year.

[No Excuses]

BTW, OP

nice work on the stats. I looked at them but maybe missed your thesis. I saw Kerry Collins in there with Campbell on a stat, but Collins and TEN are paloff bound, yes. they have homefield? 1st round bye? (question marks cause i don't know).

So maybe there are some exceptions to the rule for those stats, when it comes to the overall team performance?

_

Kerry Collins is an exception because like Campbell, he played on one of the best defenses in the league. Collins also had the advantage of two really good running backs. Collins did what he had to, play a game manager, make plays when needed and not turn the ball over. The Redskins have invested too much in Campbell to have him produce stats equal to those of washed up game managers.

[NeueRedskinWelle]

Isn't a bit ignorant to ONLY blame Campbell without looking at the other 11 guys on the field?

Ah the life of a QB. You are the team leader, and you run the show on the field. With that, you are going to shoulder the blame when a team fails.

[lovellj]

so how do you measure the efficiency of the quarterback?

And how do you isolate anything in a team game?

And I think you can say that the QB's release and decision making ability directly effects Oline and WR play.

Do you think if Tom Brady signed with us tomorrow we wouldn't see, overnight (a)less sacks ( a more prolific offense © better WR numbers across the board (d) better execution of scheme?

If Tom Brady did, yes.

If Colt Brennan comes in, no; and that's not a knock on Colt. But to expect any QB outside of of P. Manning, Brady or Brees to drastically improve our situation would be ridiculous.

[chow184]

I agree, which is why you look for trends.

campbell holds onto the ball to long at times and the right side and middle of OL was prone to IMMEDIATE breakdown in pass pro. at the snap.

the result speaks for itself in the amount of sacks based off those 2 trends. those are facts. nothing to debate. but people will blame campbell and people will blame the OL.

IMO the OL broke down to quickly than campbell creating sacks,but both were trends.

[zoony]

Not at all. I do think we need to give Zorn another season though. Is that too much to ask for, or should we go out and sign Shanahan or Cowher now??

Isn't a bit ignorant to ONLY blame Campbell without looking at the other 11 guys on the field?

Absolutely. The team could improve in lots of areas. All teams can. But with a top 5 defense, pro bowl TE, RB, WR, and all pro LT until injury, coupled with an 8-8 record and the most anemic passing attack in the NFL, it's fairly normal to wonder out loud if we have the right guy behind center or not.

Or if by simply making a change there we could elevate the play of the entire team.

I personally think Collins' time is done, but I do think he would hve surprised the hell out of some people if he'd stepped in this year, despite his shaky preseason. I don't know anything about Colt other than he had a great preseason against 3rd string. So did Kevin Kolb though.

Personally, I'd like to see us use our #13 on a QB. I know I'm in the minority though.

I really don't see the light going off for Campbell. Could it? Sure. And who wouldn't be thrilled ****less if it did? Cowboy fans, thats who. But at this point in his career if he all of a sudden "gets it"... I think it will a surprise to everyone, even his most ardent supporters.

And a discussion about the QB is not about being a "hater" or anything else... it's simply another way to approach what we think is in the best interests of the team we love.

.......

[chow184]

Kerry Collins is an exception because like Campbell, he played on one of the best defenses in the league. Collins also had the advantage of two really good running backs. Collins did what he had to, play a game manager, make plays when needed and not turn the ball over. The Redskins have invested too much in Campbell to have him produce stats equal to those of washed up game managers.

titans also have a much better O-line

Collins rarely faced pressure being extremely immobile,collins was sacked a meager 8 times all season.Collins also has a problem with holding onto the ball to long but his absurdly good OL allowed him to hold onto the ball without much grief.

I'd also say

Lendale White+Chris Johnson was a more effective attack than clinton portis.

johnson is more explosive at gaining yards

white is a better at short yardage and goal line.

[zoony]

lets see YPA in their rookie years please or first year in the WC scheme

with the same personnel and running game, Oline coach, defense, team, surrounding, etc?

This "first year in the scheme" stuff is tiresome. Campbell is a 4 year guy now. As Dick Vermeil once said, time to take the diapers off.

[No Excuses]

titans also have a much better O-line

Collins rarely faced pressure being extremely immobile,collins was sacked a meager 8 times

I'd also say

Lendale White+Chris Johnson was a more effective attack than clinton portis.

You are exactly right. Which is why Tennessee is 13-3 with a game manager QB and we are 8-8 with another game manager QB. Tennessee has the tools to support a QB who doesn't make plays, we don't.

[redskins59]

You mean HOF QBs have y/a numbers simliar to Campbell? And they weren't cut, benched, or replaced by a WAC QB?? Shocking!!!!

Did you actually read the stats? Jason Campbell in no way shape or form has had numbers anywhere close to what the other QB's had. I wouldn't call Jeff Garcia a hall of fame QB. Probably mediocre at best, yet, he has performed better than Jason Campbell.

Secondly, these are Jason Campbell's y/a numbers in 2006, 2007 and 2008:

2006: 6.3 Y/A

2007(second year in Al Saunders' system--you would expect big improvement): 6.5 Y/A

2008: 6.4 Y/A

In other words he hasn't made any improvements. The "new system" excuse is laughable at best because in 2007, Todd Collins' y/a number was 8.5.

[IHOPSkins]

.....It's funny how you say I make excuses for Campbell....

No you just ignore the truth

You claim JC won his spot by performance....

I thought Campbell did earn his job fair and square......

I give you the Zorn Money quote......

....No," new coach Jim Zorn said, leaving no room for interpretation. "If (Collins) plays lights out, and we sputter with Jason my job is to get Jason up to speed by the time the season opens." .....

And you Ignore it

You see what you want to see, and avoid the truth

TC > JC