Is It Time To Finally Cut Ties With Ladell Betts?

[andyburd]

He actually says the opposite

I think Bubba was being sarcastic,and taking a jab at MCHammer

[JGordon_3]

like I said earlier, a 4th would be perfect for Betts. There is always talent there. And I KNOW there is some stud who can effectively replace Betts.

I mean, Betts doesn't really bring much to the table when he comes in for relief for Portis, except his hands. I don't know about you, but we don't need a WR coming into backup our starting RB.

I'd be surprised if we even got a 7th rounder for a 30 year old career backup, when you could find a good running back in the draft any year. I think that we can wait a year to cut him. He's not that bad right now. Contract doesn't hurt us. Focus on the trenches. Focus on the trenches. Focus on the trenches...........

[G-Prime]

If we can get a 3rd rnd pick or higher.. Yes

[dwbiggs]

After watching Carolina last night and seeing how other teams use two quality backs...yes, I think we need to get rid of him and get someone in the mold of Brandon Jacobs or Marion Barber.

[McD5]

Epic Fail on all counts.

1. He was our top receiver yesterday....better than Moss. Yeah, let's get rid of that.

2. He is cheap. 1/5th the cost of Portis. We can have 5 Betts, for one Portis. 1 Portis goes down....we are screwed. 1 Betts type goes down....we have 4 more.

3. Your comical posts states "if we can get our o-line together." Guess what? We can't get our o-line together with Portis' outrageous salary. Can't have both. You either want one of the most expensive, banged up RBs in the league, or you want an o-line.

While we could have gotten probably a 2nd rounder for Portis two years ago.....we are probably looking at only a 4th for him now. Waiting has cost us......and it is evident that we can't expect a SB with Portis next year either.

The time to deal Portis was 2 years ago. Unless you are a fan of 8-8, 9-7 unsuccessful SB campaigns.

If our FO has learned ANYTHING AT ALL, Portis won't be here next season. A draft pick will be. :2cents:

[Voice_of_Reason]

he should be on the trading block. We can get an early 2nd rounder for him i think.

uhhhh.....

If you would offer an early second for a fumble-prone, 30 year old backup RB who has been ineffective all year, please never become the GM of the Washington Redskins.

Yeah, what he said. Betts has fumbleitis, even in the 2006 season when he was playing well, he put the ball on the ground too much. There is no market for a backup RB who fumbles. See Seattle game.

Favre went for a 4th. Randy Moss went for a 4th. Yet our brilliant front office will get an early second rounder for Betts.

Yep. The only GM who would give up anything more than a 4th (and that's stretching it) would be Vinny. And he's here.

Betts is worth keeping around. It's Rock Cartwright who should be gone.

I personally think both should be released/traded. More on Rock later.

Epic Fail on all counts.

1. He was our top receiver yesterday....better than Moss. Yeah, let's get rid of that.

He had 6 rushes for 3 yards. Portis did better behind the same O-Line before being sat down to rest, when it became obvious all we had to do was pass.

2. He is cheap. 1/5th the cost of Portis. We can have 5 Betts, for one Portis. 1 Portis goes down....we are screwed. 1 Betts type goes down....we have 4 more.

The problem with that statement is that it's a myth. The cost of trading Portis looks like it would be around a 15M cap hit, based on his gaurenteed contract extention in March of this year.

The salary cap rules say that you pro-rate the signing bonus part of the contract over the length of the contract, and if a player is released or traded, all of the remaining signing bonus money gets counted in the next year. Unless the cut/trade comes after June 1, when you take the pro-rated salary cap hit in the current year, and the remainder of the hit the following year.

So, is it really worth the cap hit to get rid of the most productive guy on offense for a 4th round pick at best?

I'm not saying I don't agree with the sentiment, but it can't happen. So get over it.

3. Your comical posts states "if we can get our o-line together." Guess what? We can't get our o-line together with Portis' outrageous salary. Can't have both. You either want one of the most expensive, banged up RBs in the league, or you want an o-line.

And we REALLY won't be able to do it with 15M of dead cap space, since we only have 13M of available cap space now. We'd have to cut or restructure additional contracts to clear 2M of cap space just to get under the cap, and then not draft or resign anybody else.

That sounds like a good plan.

---------------------------------

To answer the Betts question, I couldn't agree more. Portis is going to be here. So get complementary backs to him that can be situational players: A true speedster and a true bruiser. Sellers might be your bruiser. The speedster is not on the team.

Rock probably won't be on the team next year. The coaching staff has shown that they think of him only as a ST player, and he's OK at kickoff returns, but he's not spectacular. It's not a need area, so I think it's 50/50 that he's back. The thought might just be that there are enough holes to fill, kickoff return isn't one of them, he's under contract, so let it ride. Which would be fine. And he's a team leader, so that works too.

[justice98]

Betts should stay. Unless there's a better alternative. You can't propose getting rid of a guy unless you have a plan. Frankly, I don't think they give him the ball enough.

But I would say it might not be a bad idea to invest in a RB in the draft or coming drafts (since OL and DL should take priority) who you think might be able to assume the mantle at some point. Cuz at the rate he's going, Portis isn't gonna have much longer at this level.

[Cooley4President]

The time to deal Portis was 2 years ago.

Correction, the time to trade Betts was 2 years ago. Talk about a perfect "sell high" scenario. Back up explodes out of nowhere, goes over 1,000 yards in less than a season, cheap contract. We would have gotten good value for him then, but nobody wanted to pull the trigger. I know he was well liked with the fans and the organization after the '06 season, but if you want to build a good team sometimes you have to part with players you like. Trading Portis two years ago, with a big contract and coming off injury, would have never happened.

I like having Betts around, he's a good addition to the roster. And we'd struggle to get ANYTHING of value for him now.

[McD5]

Voice.....we are going to have a ton of cap space with the release of Springs, Washington, and a few others that don't carry their financial cost. Not a concern.

What is a concern, is to believe that by keeping Portis for yet another year, that somehow the results are going to change from the previous four seasons.

Our o-line will magically improve tenfold, Portis will actually stay healthy all season, and he will actually improve in the playoffs--leading us to a SB.

Or.....we can admit that strategy hasn't worked...and won't work.....and take a step forward.

Let's see if this FO has any intelligence at all, and if they have learned from their mistakes.

[wildbill1952]

I'll get out the old "make a running back machine" from Ronco. If I can just get that space-time continuum thing down, it should work.

We don't have the draft picks to waste on a running back right now and we wouldn't get any better than a 5th rounder for him if we traded him. Running backs don't go anywhere without an OLine that can block AND stay healthy. That only happens if you draft talent (first 3 rounds). Adding a single lineman to our offense is not going to make a difference. We need at least two significant upgrades to begin to improve our OLine. If you draft two this year and one each of the following two years, you will "suddenly" have an offense that hits on all cylinders.

Drafting a running back without upgrading the OLine is like buying a Corvette and putting a Mini-Cooper engine in it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Voice.....we are going to have a ton of cap space with the release of Springs, Washington, and a few others that don't carry their financial cost. Not a concern.

What is a concern, is to believe that by keeping Portis for yet another year, that somehow the results are going to change from the previous four seasons.

Our o-line will magically improve tenfold, Portis will actually stay healthy all season, and he will actually improve in the playoffs--leading us to a SB.

Or.....we can admit that strategy hasn't worked...and won't work.....and take a step forward.

Let's see if this FO has any intelligence at all, and if they have learned from their mistakes.

And you keep ignoring the fact that you take a cap hit when you release somebody unless there is no signing bonus. It sortof just flies by your head.

Homework assignment: Go find all the players you want to release, figure out what their remaining signing bonuses are, and then tally up what the cap hit is going to be. Then take the projected cap of 125M and the cap space availabile (currently 13M) and do some basic addition/subtraction to figure out how far over the cap we are after you've traded/released everybody. Then figure out what we're going to use to sign anybody new.

Again, I'm not arguing that it wouldn't necessarily be a good idea, I'm really playing devil's advocate. Release Springs, take a hit. Release Washington, take a hit. Release/trade Portis, take a HUGE hit. You add up all the dead cap space, and the 'Skins will have to field a roster with 13 guys playing both ways.

There is only ONE player on the team that you could release and get cap relief by doing so: Jason Taylor. Why? Beause MIAMI took the full brunt of his signing bonus when they traded him, so he's basically year to year with the 'Skins, no cap implication if he's cut.

I await your homework. Until then, your argument is based on a false premis and can't happen. Sorry to break the news. Whether you like it or not, whether it makes the team better or not, it's where we are.

[Capt Rich Fla]

They are all getting old. We need to get Mason back from Baltimore.

[McD5]

And you keep ignoring the fact that you take a cap hit when you release somebody unless there is no signing bonus. It sortof just flies by your head.

Homework assignment: Go find all the players you want to release, figure out what their remaining signing bonuses are, and then tally up what the cap hit is going to be. Then take the projected cap of 125M and the cap space availabile (currently 13M) and do some basic addition/subtraction to figure out how far over the cap we are after you've traded/released everybody. Then figure out what we're going to use to sign anybody new.

Again, I'm not arguing that it wouldn't necessarily be a good idea, I'm really playing devil's advocate. Release Springs, take a hit. Release Washington, take a hit. Release/trade Portis, take a HUGE hit. You add up all the dead cap space, and the 'Skins will have to field a roster with 13 guys playing both ways.

There is only ONE player on the team that you could release and get cap relief by doing so: Jason Taylor. Why? Beause MIAMI took the full brunt of his signing bonus when they traded him, so he's basically year to year with the 'Skins, no cap implication if he's cut.

I await your homework. Until then, your argument is based on a false premis and can't happen. Sorry to break the news. Whether you like it or not, whether it makes the team better or not, it's where we are.

You are assuming that other teams in need of these players won't be willing to take part of the financial hit....as Miami did with JT.

I am more optimistic.

If after fielding calls from a ton of teams interested in these guys....it can't be done? So be it.

But I believe if we roll up the sleeves....and use a little Snyder financial imagination, we can come out of this much better than the depressing picture that you are painting above.

Vinny just needs to say to himself, "What would Parcells do?"

Answer: Springs, Washington and Portis would be the first 3 guys gone.

We would draft no less than 5 or 6 linemen this offseason, and we would be leaps and bounds above where we are now.

Have a good day.....market is about to open, I have to run.

[nightbird]

This is ridiculous.

Teams are going to trade us multiple picks for Betts, and then we can use one of those picks on a "young, fast, powerful, God-like, awesome" running back?

He's a fine backup, and that's that.

Yeah, it's nice watching Jonathan Stewart and Chris Johnson play, but

A. Those guys are first round picks. Do you want to use a first round pick on a running back?

B. Those guys play behind mammoth offensive lines that plow people out of the way.

C. Those guys play for teams that stick to the run, NO MATTER WHAT. They do their damage toward the end of games against tired defenses. But all the football coaches on this board will tell you all we have to do is "go deep" all day and that's the key to success.

[SirClintonPortis]

I'd say replace him with Derrick Ward if possible.

[KDawg]

You are assuming that other teams in need of these players won't be willing to take part of the financial hit....as Miami did with JT.

I am more optimistic.

Miami wanted to get rid of JT. That would be the equivalent of us taking a hit on releasing these guys in order to get rid of them. How does this help the cap situation?

Vinny just needs to say to himself, "What would Parcells do?"

Answer: Springs, Washington and Portis would be the first 3 guys gone.

Parcells released Ronnie Brown?

We would draft no less than 5 or 6 linemen this offseason, and we would be leaps and bounds above where we are now.

On what planet? There's no way we'd draft that many linemen, no matter what our need is.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Unless there's a better alternative, who replaces him on the roster?

Our FA and priority draft picks FAR out weigh the need for a new back-up RB.

I like Betts from the standpoint of his 100% commitment to the cause. He's not the best back in the World, heck, I'm sure he'd be the first to admit that, but at least he gives you everything he has.

Would I like an up-grade? Sure, your always looking to better yourselves in every position. But unless there's a better alternative, like maybe's a late round speedster back that your SURE on to develop, then it would be folly to move him on.

Hail.

[addicted]

This is a tricky subject...

First Betts isn't a bad RB. When he is in open space the man can move the chains. He isn't however fast enough to burst through a hole and get into open space most of the time and when he's in a crowded backfield he's likely not gaining many yards. He has above average hands for a RB.

Now the real question for us is how many RB's are you going to allow us to keep on the active roster? Betts can be a very productive 3rd down pass catching RB. He can not be a faster, quick change of pace rb which I believe is exactly what we need mixed with Portis. Portis is the thunder, he doesn't have the lightening.

If your going to keep 4 RB's on the active roster then you can go with:

1. CP (power back)

2. (Rookie or FA quicker change of pace back)

3. Betts (third down speciality back and primary backup to CP)

4. Rock Cartwrite (Special teams back and backup)

The problem is that most weeks we won't have the luxury of having 4 RB's active and playing due to other positional needs. So if your only going to carry 3 RB's on the roster, the decision comes down to the third being either Rock, Betts, or the change of pace RB. I don't think Betts gives us what a Felix Jones, or a Leon Washington, or a Derrick Ward, or a Johnathan Stewart, or a Corel Buckhalter, or a Mwelde Moore, or a Sprools gives to there own respective teams which is an offensive boost and something we really need.

Its a tricky subject because we know Betts isn't a bad RB, but at the same time most will admit that he isn't great either. I think we should let him go or decide that each and every week we will give 4 active roster spots to RB's which will hurt our depth somewhere else and keep Betts but bring in someone faster and quicker then Betts as a change of pace runner.

If we can't have our cake and eat it too I'd rather next season go on with a faster RB then if we kept Betts on the team. Best case senario would be if Betts could return kickoffs as well as Rock does. Then if he could we could let Rock go and use Betts as the kickoff specialist and as a 3rd down back alongside our thunder and lightening. Second best senario is we find someone on the team to act as our primary return man, let Rock go, keep Betts and get another quicker back but I think that's asking too much. I think if we keep Betts we don't get a change of pace RB and I think we need one

[Dark Acre]

he should be on the trading block. We can get an early 2nd rounder for him i think.

Only from the Redskins. Oh wait. Betts isn't going anywhere. He's good value for the :2cents:

[Drunken Master III]

he should be on the trading block. We can get an early 2nd rounder for him i think.

no way we get a 2nd for Betts.... maybe a 5th

[ST is my boy]

he should be on the trading block. We can get an early 2nd rounder for him i think.

bwahahaahaa

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This is a tricky subject...

First Betts isn't a bad RB. When he is in open space the man can move the chains. He isn't however fast enough to burst through a hole and get into open space most of the time and when he's in a crowded backfield he's likely not gaining many yards. He has above average hands for a RB.

Now the real question for us is how many RB's are you going to allow us to keep on the active roster? Betts can be a very productive 3rd down pass catching RB. He can not be a faster, quick change of pace rb which I believe is exactly what we need mixed with Portis. Portis is the thunder, he doesn't have the lightening.

If your going to keep 4 RB's on the active roster then you can go with:

1. CP (power back)

2. (Rookie or FA quicker change of pace back)

3. Betts (third down speciality back and primary backup to CP)

4. Rock Cartwrite (Special teams back and backup)

The problem is that most weeks we won't have the luxury of having 4 RB's active and playing due to other positional needs. So if your only going to carry 3 RB's on the roster, the decision comes down to the third being either Rock, Betts, or the change of pace RB. I don't think Betts gives us what a Felix Jones, or a Leon Washington, or a Derrick Ward, or a Johnathan Stewart, or a Corel Buckhalter, or a Mwelde Moore, or a Sprools gives to there own respective teams which is an offensive boost and something we really need.

Its a tricky subject because we know Betts isn't a bad RB, but at the same time most will admit that he isn't great either. I think we should let him go or decide that each and every week we will give 4 active roster spots to RB's which will hurt our depth somewhere else and keep Betts but bring in someone faster and quicker then Betts as a change of pace runner.

If we can't have our cake and eat it too I'd rather next season go on with a faster RB then if we kept Betts on the team. Best case senario would be if Betts could return kickoffs as well as Rock does. Then if he could we could let Rock go and use Betts as the kickoff specialist and as a 3rd down back alongside our thunder and lightening. Second best senario is we find someone on the team to act as our primary return man, let Rock go, keep Betts and get another quicker back but I think that's asking too much. I think if we keep Betts we don't get a change of pace RB and I think we need one

You just summed up what I thinking on this after I posted before you addicted, and the last paragraph was more or less what I concluded.

The question, if we do change around the backs, should maybe's be more "Is it time to finally cut ties with Rock Cartwright?"

Do Rock's steady, if unspectacular returns warrant still warrant a roster spot?

I love Rock for what he gives to the locker room, his character is unquestioned. As is his commitment. But over the two, is Rock worth keeping above Ladell? We have plenty of quick return guys on the roster who've handled kick returning duty's before. If we could find that speedy, "change of pace" back deep in the draft, that we were willing to develop, I'd be much more in favour of letting Rock move on, and having Clinton, whomever, and Ladell taking the RB slots.

Hail.

[Merlin Emrys]

Overall, Betts is the least of the team's worries. At the same time, trading him for picks is not a bad idea. The problem is Betts won't have as much offseason value to a playoff contending team like the Broncos as he would now. The time to trade would be now, but I'm sure the trade deadline has already passed.

[jbowman]

We weren't a tandem back team before Zorn got here, with him implementing the WCO, we won't be while he is here. If we need to do anything at RB it's start looking for a replacement for Sellers who is getting up there in age, while he is still around long enough to give the guy some pointers. Betts is a solid #2 to Portis. He can play when Portis is injured, and can come in on 3rd downs and such.

We are good at HB/FB.

We are good at WR.

We are good at Secondary.

We could use a little work at LB

We really need OL

We really need better DT

[MustangSteve]

You are assuming that other teams in need of these players won't be willing to take part of the financial hit....as Miami did with JT.

I am more optimistic.

If after fielding calls from a ton of teams interested in these guys....it can't be done? So be it.

But I believe if we roll up the sleeves....and use a little Snyder financial imagination, we can come out of this much better than the depressing picture that you are painting above.

Vinny just needs to say to himself, "What would Parcells do?"

Answer: Springs, Washington and Portis would be the first 3 guys gone.

We would draft no less than 5 or 6 linemen this offseason, and we would be leaps and bounds above where we are now.

Have a good day.....market is about to open, I have to run.

I like Bett's, but we can definately get a better running back then him. Portis has already proved himself, and it's not even close competion with Bett's. I would love to have seen A Peterson run in the NFC East, as well as against Pitt and Baltimores defense. No way in hell would he have more yards then Portis!