Manning's Pass to Wayne (Redskins Related)

[Da Truth]

Yea I agree with the initial post as well...long ball!

[AKM311]

Umm...You obviously heard wrong. They said that was the 158th between Manning and Wayne for a TD. for a gain of over 50 yds.

It was the 158th TD from Manning to Wayne for a TD over 50 yards?

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA! I didn't even hear it, but that statement itself makes you sound like an idiot. Are you arguing just to argue?

[AKM311]

Taking a deep shot here and there loosens up the 8 or 9 man fronts that we're seeing so much of now. 4 things can happen: 1) complete, 2) incomplete, 3) pass-interference, or 4) INT. IMO only one of those is bad. Even the incomplete pass puts it in the mind of the defense that we MAY try to stretch the field again.

Only 1 is bad if it is 2nd and short.

Otherwise on almost every down, 2 bad things can happen. The chances of those bad things are higher than a complete pass.

[Peregrine]

I agree completely. We got beat by the Steelers because they went down the field. They didnt beat us by running the ball on us. They didnt beat us because they put up a ton of yards on us. They beat us because they threw the ball down the field. Sure, sometimes it didnt result in a completion. Instead they got a really long pass interference penalty(which is also how the Rams beat us, down the field).

Im not saying you throw the ball down the field all the time, but you have to do it at least once in a while. Sure, the WCO is great. Running the ball is great. But doing only those two means opposing defenses can just stack up closer to the line of scrimmage. Our offense was inept against the Lions except for when we threw the ball downfield.

Its not just that we havent thrown the ball downfield. Its partly we dont even run routes downfield. I have seen so many 3rd and 7's were all of our receivers run 8 yards routes. That makes it infinitely easier for opposing defenses. You have to have someone keep them honest. Really, it comes down to the fact that we have an offense with immense potential. It is the total package. We have a dominant running game, we have a QB who can throw the ball downfield as well as hit the short routes. We have receivers who can catch the underneath stuff and the deep balls. All we need to do is keep opposing teams honest. The Steelers were not honest last week.

I do think Zorn will correct will eventually move that way, and from what I have seen, he may adjust quickly, much quicker than Gibbs. Hopefully he does so as soon as possible, because I really think this offense has a lot of potential.

[Touchdown Redskins]

Doesn't this discussion come up every single year? Don't you guys understand that Peyton has been in that offense for like 10 years? Just be patient. This offense is STILL in its infant stage. These things WILL come.

Long passes aren't a product of experience, they're a product of athleticism, risk-taking, and game-planning. Matt Ryan is taking shots downfield, Joe Flacco is taking shots downfield, why not JC? It seems that Zorn doesn't trust JC or the receivers.

[veteranskinsfan]

I agree completely. We got beat by the Steelers because they went down the field. They didnt beat us by running the ball on us. They didnt beat us because they put up a ton of yards on us. They beat us because they threw the ball down the field. Sure, sometimes it didnt result in a completion. Instead they got a really long pass interference penalty(which is also how the Rams beat us, down the field).

Im not saying you throw the ball down the field all the time, but you have to do it at least once in a while. Sure, the WCO is great. Running the ball is great. But doing only those two means opposing defenses can just stack up closer to the line of scrimmage. Our offense was inept against the Lions except for when we threw the ball downfield.

Its not just that we havent thrown the ball downfield. Its partly we dont even run routes downfield. I have seen so many 3rd and 7's were all of our receivers run 8 yards routes. That makes it infinitely easier for opposing defenses. You have to have someone keep them honest. Really, it comes down to the fact that we have an offense with immense potential. It is the total package. We have a dominant running game, we have a QB who can throw the ball downfield as well as hit the short routes. We have receivers who can catch the underneath stuff and the deep balls. All we need to do is keep opposing teams honest. The Steelers were not honest last week.

I do think Zorn will correct will eventually move that way, and from what I have seen, he may adjust quickly, much quicker than Gibbs. Hopefully he does so as soon as possible, because I really think this offense has a lot of potential.

I agree we need to throw down field when the opportunity presents itself during games. I think the Steelers burned our secondary on some big pass plays but we never burned the Steelers secondary on some longer pass plays. I would like to see our receivers turn on the after-burners down field. I think Zorn may not have trusted JC the first six games but now he may believe it is time to throw down field more since we are not scoring a lot of touchdowns compared to other playoff bound teams.

[texasthunder]

Umm...You obviously heard wrong. They said that was the 158th between Manning and Wayne for a TD. for a gain of over 50 yds.

Well concidering Reggie Wayne only has 52 touchdown receptions in his career, I would find your statement to be totally false.

Try again.

:jerk:

[GenMgr]

Long passes aren't a product of experience, they're a product of athleticism, risk-taking, and game-planning. Matt Ryan is taking shots downfield, Joe Flacco is taking shots downfield, why not JC? It seems that Zorn doesn't trust JC or the receivers.

You mean JC doesn't trust the receivers..once the ball is snapped, everything falls on JC's shoulders. [no pun intended]

[SkinsFTW]

Yes. You a correct, however; you have to get lucky to win in this league sometimes, and you have to throw the ball deep in order to give yourself that chance to get lucky.

Seriously, taking a couple chances deep will always beat punting or at best kicking a field goal, even if it isn't successful it can't hurt the running game. More likely is that it will result in at least 1 long completion or TD.

[pjfootballer]

All the more reason to start taking some shots, and work Devin11 or Sleepy into the game a little more, I would say.

That's up to JC, he has to believe that Devin11 or Sleepy can make the catch. He doesn't have enough confidence in them to throw it.

I agree. He's got to stop with his progression of Moss, ARE, then dump it to Cooley. If we want to have a prolific offense, he has to start trusting the rookies. I'd rather go down throwing a 15 yard pass to a rookie that is incomplete on 3rd and 11, then check down to Moss, ARE or Cooley for 8 yards.

[pjfootballer]

And I'm not saying just 50 to 70 yards down the field and wing it. We lack intermediate plays of 20-40 yards in the passing game. We either get less than 10 or we hit a big one every once in a while.

[darrelgreenie]

Long passes aren't a product of experience, they're a product of athleticism, risk-taking, and game-planning. Matt Ryan is taking shots downfield, Joe Flacco is taking shots downfield, why not JC? It seems that Zorn doesn't trust JC or the receivers.

Part of it is the system and the coaches.

Cam Cameron and Mike Mularkey are both veteran playcallers and run a more vertical passing game then our current version of the WCO.

[KNGwithOUTaCrwN]

While watching the Colts and Steelers game, I witnessed a fifty yard pass (in the air) by Manning that got tipped by the DB and Wayne was able to pull it in and score.

These things happen when you throw the ball down field. You get pass interference calls, you long receptions, and yes you will also get interceptions. However, you have to take the good w/ the bad.

The Redskins have to start doing more of this, They have to start taking a minium of 5 shots per game of over forty yards in the air. Not only will this enable us to get at least (on average) two big plays a game, but it will also open the running game even more.

Your Thoughts?

yes i def agree. we really need to start lobbin the ball downfield for big gains. it will really help us out. even in good coverage, we should challenge ourselves by trying to make the play..(anybody see ginn's TD this week when he was doubled...still made the catch and got the points)...

[kreitmaster]

I agree with you. Let a talented receiver have a chance to make a big play. Superior WR play can beat even very good defense, see Avery's backbreaking catch in the Rams game. Torrence had good coverage but Avery made a better play by coming back for the ball. Going downfield also puts pressure on the defense and may get you a big penalty.

[jrfriedm]

yes i def agree. we really need to start lobbin the ball downfield for big gains. it will really help us out. even in good coverage, we should challenge ourselves by trying to make the play..(anybody see ginn's TD this week when he was doubled...still made the catch and got the points)...

This is exactly what I've been screaming for the past 9 weeks.

[gortiz]

While watching the Colts and Steelers game, I witnessed a fifty yard pass (in the air) by Manning that got tipped by the DB and Wayne was able to pull it in and score.

These things happen when you throw the ball down field. You get pass interference calls, you long receptions, and yes you will also get interceptions. However, you have to take the good w/ the bad.

The Redskins have to start doing more of this, They have to start taking a minium of 5 shots per game of over forty yards in the air. Not only will this enable us to get at least (on average) two big plays a game, but it will also open the running game even more.

Your Thoughts?

My thoughts ...

the colts and Manning are doing terrible this year. I wouldn't put too much stock into what they do cause it is not working, despite their win.

[jrfriedm]

My thoughts ...

the colts and Manning are doing terrible this year. I wouldn't put too much stock into what they do cause it is not working, despite their win.

Really? What is the Colts record again? 5-4? That is terrible? They are one game behind our record, and they just beat the team that put a smack down on us the week before.

Please don't respond unless you have an intelligent responce.

:owned:

[jrfriedm]

Really? What is the Colts record again? 5-4? That is terrible? They are one game behind our record, and they just beat the team that put a smack down on us the week before.

Please don't respond unless you have an intelligent responce.

:owned:

I'm still waiting for a reply to this post. If gortiz thinks that he can make such an outlandish comment and then just walk away from it he's insane in the membrane

[Passizle]

While watching the Colts and Steelers game, I witnessed a fifty yard pass (in the air) by Manning that got tipped by the DB and Wayne was able to pull it in and score.

These things happen when you throw the ball down field. You get pass interference calls, you long receptions, and yes you will also get interceptions. However, you have to take the good w/ the bad.

The Redskins have to start doing more of this, They have to start taking a minium of 5 shots per game of over forty yards in the air. Not only will this enable us to get at least (on average) two big plays a game, but it will also open the running game even more.

Your Thoughts?

I think people see one play and make judgment far too often around these boards latley.

Lets look at some facts... shall we?

First... we have to detrmine the definition of "deep shots down filed... 20+, 30+, 40+?

I would consider 40+ being deep passes. So lets take a look and see what teams have he most successful "deep passes" and how they are fairing in the W/L column.

The top 5 teams for completed 40+ passes in order are...

Saints

Packers

Chargers

Rams

Cowboys

I dont think that any of these teams would "scare" us if we had to face them in the next week.

But lets look a little deeper. Lets look at the 20+ category. The top five in this statistical area are...

Saints

Broncos

Chargers

49'ers

Texans

Again... nothing to see here.

What some people dont seem to realize is that what sets a team apart, offensivley, from the pack is red zone efficieny. Our team has not had much trouble movng the chains... piling up yards... owning TOP, rushing... all that hooplah. Where we fail is scoring... and no offense to the OP, but hitting some long ball one in a while... or even more often is not going to change that fact.

Truth is people seem to feel that throwing deep shots will "open things up", but there is nothing to open up in the redzone. If you are 1st and goal at the 5, you have much less room to play with and suddenly these spread out 11 guys on D are everywhere.

Food for thought. The Redskins have had 30 trips to the red zone and have only come away with 14 touchdowns, and a handful of field goals. Thats alot of points left on the fieled that we need to convert to TD's.

PS... pretty nice stat tools here:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/10redzn.htm

[Passizle]

I am surprised this topic died so easily. Whatever.

Go skins!!! Lay the smackdown on Romo sits to pee will ya?

[jrfriedm]

I think people see one play and make judgment far too often around these boards latley.

Lets look at some facts... shall we?

First... we have to detrmine the definition of "deep shots down filed... 20+, 30+, 40+?

I would consider 40+ being deep passes. So lets take a look and see what teams have he most successful "deep passes" and how they are fairing in the W/L column.

The top 5 teams for completed 40+ passes in order are...

Saints

Packers

Chargers

Rams

Cowboys

I dont think that any of these teams would "scare" us if we had to face them in the next week.But lets look a little deeper. Lets look at the 20+ category. The top five in this statistical area are...

Saints

Broncos

Chargers

49'ers

Texans

Again... nothing to see here.

What some people dont seem to realize is that what sets a team apart, offensivley, from the pack is red zone efficieny. Our team has not had much trouble movng the chains... piling up yards... owning TOP, rushing... all that hooplah. Where we fail is scoring... and no offense to the OP, but hitting some long ball one in a while... or even more often is not going to change that fact.

Truth is people seem to feel that throwing deep shots will "open things up", but there is nothing to open up in the redzone. If you are 1st and goal at the 5, you have much less room to play with and suddenly these spread out 11 guys on D are everywhere.

Food for thought. The Redskins have had 30 trips to the red zone and have only come away with 14 touchdowns, and a handful of field goals. Thats alot of points left on the fieled that we need to convert to TD's.

PS... pretty nice stat tools here:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/10redzn.htm

I couldn't disagree w/ you more on this point. I like a lot of people on this board are extremely scared of the Cowgirls this week. The Rams have already beat us (thanks to a long pass of 40+ yards that got them in field goal range), the Pakers would scare the crap out of me, and I'm sure a lot of people would feel the same way, and while the Chargers aren't the power house of the past couple of years, I still wouldn't chalk them as an easy win.

[Tom10Y]

The reason they get PI calls is because the receivers are bigger than the DB that they'd have to push and shove the receiver to make a play on the ball. Usually, when the receivers are smaller than the Corners, ie. our receivers, DB's are able to just jump over them or out-physical them...if that's even a word.