alexey Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to you.. There is no need to explain. I understood both your original point and the followup point. I hope that you understood my point as well and will use a narrower brush to paint things next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The Bible doesn't mention murder? It doesn't mention abortion as murder. Again you'd think that knowing that a global super power would see so many Christians voting almost exclusively on this single issue - that God would have mentioned it specifically like he did with pretty much every other sin we talk about today. Maybe it's a test of faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The thing is if the universe is to impressive and to vast to have happened on its own, how could a diety/being/whatever that is powerful and even more impressive,have not been created? I certainly don't have the answer and come in under the agnostic flag, but that logic flaw always bothers me. It's not a logical flaw at all, even leaving aside all the reasons we usually discuss when this comes up. Let's do a quick thought experiment. Imagine a team of archeologists that come across a new find, deep in the rain forest. They discover rocks that appear to have been carved into arrow heads. They discover animal bones around shards of pottery that appear to have been pots. They discover pieces of jewelry, found with the bones of people, buried under mounds. They have no other information, and no records anywhere indicate any people that lived in this area. Does this mean that they cannot conclude that this was a settlement, caused by some humans, just because they cannot then explain where those humans came from or how they got there? If an explanation is sensible, it is non-sensical to demand that this explanation also have an explanation. Further, it destroys all knowledge and science, because it creates an infinite regress where eventually an explanation does not have an explanation, invalidating the whole chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 It doesn't mention abortion as murder. It doesn't mention gunshots as murder either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The simple truth is you can't be for what Obama is for and still proclaim to be a christian. for abortion,for gay rights. It just isn't possible. That's not a truth, it's a weakness on your part. There is nothing in the bible that tells us to be anti-gay rights, when you consider what rights actually mean. We are not as Christians instructed to attack sinners and generally hate them. We are instructed to seek them out and lead by example. To show the path through action and preach the word of God. To do otherwise is to behave as the pharisee which the bible takes great pains to single out as WRONG. There is nothing in the bible that tells us to oppose abortion by supporting a radical pro-life agenda. I am very much against abortion but the cure I see for this great ill is to spread a respect for life, remove the fears of motherhood and open communication with parents, and bring the concept of responsible fathers back. That will reduce abortion the right way, the sustainable way, the Christian way. It's not on us to force people not to sin - it's on us to inform them of whats at stake and help them make the right choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Further, it destroys all knowledge and science, because it creates an infinite regress where eventually an explanation does not have an explanation, invalidating the whole chain. Translated, the chicken and the egg. If the argument is something as complex as the universe needs a creator, why is it illogical to conclude that something as complex and powerful as God must need a creator? To me its just all about where you want to stop. Eventually something just had to be. I just don't see the logical difference between picking the universe or God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm a born again Christian who trust in the salvation of the resurrected Son of God; Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and have been for 15 years, am His disciple and a pastor within the body of Christ that he has ordained, and Pro-Life (save for rape, incest and life of the mother) and I whole-heartedly agree with Obama when he says that we are not for abortion but that we want to reduce the number of abortions in this country (check his convention speech). I am also for gay rights in that they should not be denied any of the civil liberties that the rest of us enjoy simply because they are gay (regardless of choice or genetics). See 81, its not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 It doesn't mention gunshots as murder either.Or drunk driving accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 It doesn't mention gunshots as murder either.Doesn't mention nuclear weapons either. It does however mention murder in the same sense, the weapons have been upgraded but the violence of the act remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The simple truth is you can't be for what Obama is for and still proclaim to be a christian. for abortion,for gay rights. It just isn't possible. . Yes I can. Pffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Or drunk driving accidents. You think God views drunk driver's that kill someone in an accident the same way as cold blooded murderers in a more traditional sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 how about you just stop talking slick. my point was clear and it made sense. just because YOU and your buddy dont like how I worded it doesnt mean a damn thing to me. you arent anyone for me to impress. The biggest issue that Muslims don't worship Muhammad in the way that Christians worship Christ and Buddhists certainly don't worship Buddha in that way. So, to draw parallels between the 3 is confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Are some Christian values more important than others? no, but all christians, if they follow the bible shouldn't have different values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm a born again Christian who trust in the salvation of the resurrected Son of God; Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and have been for 15 years, am His disciple and a pastor within the body of Christ that he has ordained, and Pro-Life (save for rape, incest and life of the mother) and I whole-heartedly agree with Obama when he says that we are not for abortion but that we want to reduce the number of abortions in this country (check his convention speech). I am also for gay rights in that they should not be denied any of the civil liberties that the rest of us enjoy simply because they are gay (regardless of choice or genetics).See 81, its not impossible. Good post Asbury. I'm not a believer in any specific religion but I agree with every single one of your points. I'd also like to add that along the lines of 81's post, a lot of people would like to have you believe that to have ethics and to have morals means that you have to belong to a certain religion. I would argue that it doesn't take religion for a person to know the difference between right and wrong and make ethical decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 How about capital punishment? (I'm pro-cap punishment BTW) cap pun is supported by the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The biggest issue that Muslims don't worship Muhammad in the way that Christians worship Christ and Buddhists certainly don't worship Buddha in that way.So' date=' to draw parallels between the 3 is confusing.[/quote'] the only difference that I know of is that Muslims believe was a prophet sent by God and Christians believe Christ is the Son of God. Muslims believe in Christ but they believe he is more like Muhammad then what we believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 no, but all christians, if they follow the bible shouldn't have different values. Which explains why there is just one Denomination of Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 cap pun is supported by the bible. Catholics say it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 cap pun is supported by the bible. Even in a situation where it is certain that innocents will be executed some of the time? Show me where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 cap pun is supported by the bible. Another poster beat me to it, but not when there's a potential innocent life at stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 That's not a truth, it's a weakness on your part. There is nothing in the bible that tells us to be anti-gay rights, when you consider what rights actually mean. We are not as Christians instructed to attack sinners and generally hate them. When did I say we should attack sinners and generally hate them. I love how you people don't like what a christian might say and than twist it around to suit your agenda. The bible is anti-gay. Sorry, that's the way it is. Homosexuals are an abomination according to the bible. You can't pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to follow. Doesn't mean we hate them. Just means we are fighting against what they believe. There is nothing in the bible that tells us to oppose abortion by supporting a radical pro-life agenda. your right. Just curious when I ever said anything about my or others support for radical pro-life agenda? So we shouldn't oppose abortion?? what's funny, is that I never said anything close to what you are talking about, yet you, placed me in that catagory. You labeled me a gay hater, and basically a right-wing kook who supports radical pro-life agendas. I challenge you to find anywhere in this whole board EVER where I have supported those things. All this becuase I said christains shouldn't support gay rights or abortion. Wow. That's pretty telling ya know. For someone to jump from that to what you said about me. very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Even in a situation where it is certain that innocents will be executed some of the time?Show me where. do you think EVERYONE was guilty when God flooded the Earth? do you think EVERYONE was guilty in Sodom and Gommorah? what about Job? You think he was guilty of anything? was Cain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Let's do a quick thought experiment. Imagine a team of archeologists that come across a new find, deep in the rain forest. They discover rocks that appear to have been carved into arrow heads. They discover animal bones around shards of pottery that appear to have been pots. They discover pieces of jewelry, found with the bones of people, buried under mounds. They have no other information, and no records anywhere indicate any people that lived in this area. Does this mean that they cannot conclude that this was a settlement, caused by some humans, just because they cannot then explain where those humans came from or how they got there? Do you not see a flaw in this argument? Evidence of human activity IS information that humans lived in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm a born again Christian who trust in the salvation of the resurrected Son of God; Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and have been for 15 years, am His disciple and a pastor within the body of Christ that he has ordained, and Pro-Life (save for rape, incest and life of the mother) and I whole-heartedly agree with Obama when he says that we are not for abortion but that we want to reduce the number of abortions in this country (check his convention speech). I am also for gay rights in that they should not be denied any of the civil liberties that the rest of us enjoy simply because they are gay (regardless of choice or genetics).See 81, its not impossible. That pitcure you posted offended so much. You are making fun of piles of crap who can't defend themsleves. Hate to say it, but what you believe is a watered down version from what the bible teaches. just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Good post Asbury. I'm not a believer in any specific religion but I agree with every single one of your points. I'd also like to add that along the lines of 81's post, a lot of people would like to have you believe that to have ethics and to have morals means that you have to belong to a certain religion. I would argue that it doesn't take religion for a person to know the difference between right and wrong and make ethical decisions. I can prove this ideal wrong right now. what are you feelings about gays, abortion and gay rights?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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