Pft - joe theismann: No one holds joe gibbs accountable

[HapHaszard]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/26/joe-theismann-no-one-holds-joe-gibbs-accountable/

Former Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs is a revered figure among D.C. football fans, and his old quarterback, Joe Theismann, can’t help but think that maybe people should re-examine Gibbs’ legacy.

In an interview with Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post, Theismann said people go overboard in blaming Redskins executive Vinny Cerrato for things that go wrong with the franchise, and they’ve also gone overboard in crediting Gibbs for things that have gone right.

“[Cerrato has] been held accountable for a lot of things that happened, and up until this year, this is the thing that bothers me, nobody wants to hold Joe Gibbs accountable for bad things,” Theismann said. “They’d rather defer it and blame Vinny. If it was good it was Joe’s, if it was bad it was Vinny’s. Joe has to take responsibility for the hirings that he made, for the decisions that they made regarding personnel.”

Theismann noted that Gibbs won only six games in the first season of his second stint with the team, in 2004, and said Gibbs didn’t get enough criticism for that.

“Now obviously he had a 6-10 season; something went wrong,” Theismann said.

Click on the link above for the rest of the article

[Reaganaut]

Gibbs isn't responsible for the debacle named Steve Spurrier. He came in to clean up bad mojo and that's why he got credit for the good things. Cerrato made his first coaching choice of his career and that is Zorn. He wasn't in love with Spurrier and definitely not Marty, so you can't blame him for his friend Dan Snyder's mistakes. Who knows how bad the Skins would be if Vinny wasn't there. He's a good actor, but Gibbs gets a pass because he had a huge mess to clean up.

Oh, and by the way, Gibbs is a coach not a talent evaluator. Enter Mark Brunell and lest we forget Desmond Howard.

[PCS]

Clearly Joe hasn't visited ES.

[truskinsfan18]

Gibbs has done a lot for us. He's given us a franchise qb, franchise rb, and has put together a solid team, much like Parcells did with Dallas. His schemes weren't that good, and neither were Saunders. This will be a great team one day imo

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Clearly Joe hasn't visited ES.

I was about to say lol...

[BleedBNG]

First off, Michael David Smith is one of the MOST seething Redskin haters around. ANYTHING negative he can MAKE UP to write about them he will. No matter what it is. Now, how does what JT have to say about Gibbs and Cerrato have ANYTHING to do with JT thinking "that maybe people should re-examine Gibb's legacy"? And JT has said FREQUENTLY (?) that he didn't feel Gibbs was supportive of him when he suffered a career ending injury? Really? That's a first for me. I thought JT retired so he could collect his MIL from Lloyd's.

Only someone who is psychotically as STUPID as Smith would want to re-examine Gibb's legacy. So, you can add 2 losing years with the other one in '88 and add 2 playoff years to the 4 years he didn't make the playoffs in the past.

BIG EFF'ING DEAL!

:jerk:

[Hunter_R]

I was about to say lol...

3rd'd.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Clearly Joe hasn't visited ES.

True. Joe was held quite accountable, as was his former staff.

[paloosa]

Joe Gibbs does get a pass because he turned around the Redskins program but he made a lot of poor decisions with players. The one thing that he did do is make the players believe in their abilities and the team concept. Mistakes were made by all players in the front office and that means Joe Gibbs. It even means Dan Snyder made his fair share of mistakes for being a fan of his own team. The guy that has been caught in the middle of all that has been Cerrato. He has taken so much heat for all the bad decisions of the team and everyone thinks he is a bad decision maker.

Cerrato has never been given credit for his accomplishments. He was in San Francisco and drafted several players for Bill Walsh but the guy that got all the credit was Walsh and Ed DeBartello. Now that he is in Washington he gets blamed for all the bad decisions in Free Agency which was the responsibility of Gibbs and Snyder. But who will get the credit for this years draft class? Out of all the guys drafted this year only Malcom Kelly, and Justin Tryon haven't made a major impact on the team. Kareem Moore and Chris Horton are outstanding impact players that have pressed the starters for time. Devin Thomas is slowly making his presence known and Fred Davis is showing that he is going to be a force when he gets his chances. Then you have Chad Reinhart that is going to be the future of the OL along with Heyer and Geisinger. Then their is Rob Jackson trying to fit in with a lot of talent to learn from at DE. Carter, Taylor, Daniels, James, Wilson and Buzbee are guys all talented guys which will only make him better. James, Wilson, Jackson and Buzbee are the future at DE for this team.

So who is going to get credit for the talented picks of this season? Joe Theismann is saying that Gibbs made his share of the mistakes and that Cerrato shouldn't take all the blame.

[Davethegolfguy]

If it wasn't for Gibbs Joey T would have been a lousey punt returner for his career.

[Stonoman]

Hey Joey T had guts and heart.I saw Him tackle guys plenty of times.Of course he threw the ball away and thats why he had to tackle someone.

[kingfish50]

Gibbs made some mistakes, was stubborn as hell at times and had to adjust his way of coaching to fit today's, all business, it's about me, I'm all show, no loyalty but to myself type of football player.

He's changed the mentality of the front office and players alike. The team, talent wise, is much better off now than in the previous 10 years or so and still has a legitimate shot at the division title and the playoffs.

He may not have gotten us to the promised land in the 4 years he was here but he's built a foundation and a new mindset that will take this team to the next level and beyond in the very near future.

[scruffylookin]

I disagree with my man Joey T on this one.

Joe Gibbs has been held responsible for the mistakes made during his second stint as head coach. From not building a better FO. To Mark Brunell. To ignoring both lines in the draft. To poor coaching decisions on game day. To a lack of adjustments. His second tenure has been pretty well held in account.

I think most people's problem with Vinny is that he has never really earned the position he's been given and does not have a track record that looks all that good.

Snyder brought him in after a less than impressive run in San Francisco.

The one season Snyder gave up FO control (Marty), Cerrato was fired and not a single team wanted him. He was left doing bit work on ESPN.

Snyder brings him back and now after Gibbs leaves, promotes him to the top position in the organization (after Snyder himself).

Vinny is just a symptom of the overall poor job that Snyder has done in running this team. Since Snyder is unfortunately in it for the long haul and we can't get rid of him, we have no choice but to use his subordinates as scapegoats.

[gibbsandflair]

The handling of the Sean Taylor tragedy, in my mind was the greatest bit of coaching in the NFL last year. I do not think anyone but Coach Joe could have dealt with that in a way that, he put our Skins on his back and shephard them through something that is not in a coaching handbook. It may be one of the best coaching jobs in the history of sports, any sport. Yes reconsider coach Joe. The light only shines brighter.

[Thinking Skins]

Cerrato has never been given credit for his accomplishments. He was in San Francisco and drafted several players for Bill Walsh but the guy that got all the credit was Walsh and Ed DeBartello. Now that he is in Washington he gets blamed for all the bad decisions in Free Agency which was the responsibility of Gibbs and Snyder. But who will get the credit for this years draft class? Out of all the guys drafted this year only Malcom Kelly, and Justin Tryon haven't made a major impact on the team. Kareem Moore and Chris Horton are outstanding impact players that have pressed the starters for time. Devin Thomas is slowly making his presence known and Fred Davis is showing that he is going to be a force when he gets his chances. Then you have Chad Reinhart that is going to be the future of the OL along with Heyer and Geisinger. Then their is Rob Jackson trying to fit in with a lot of talent to learn from at DE. Carter, Taylor, Daniels, James, Wilson and Buzbee are guys all talented guys which will only make him better. James, Wilson, Jackson and Buzbee are the future at DE for this team.

WOW! THats a hella optimistic look at a draft class. The reality is that other than Brooks, Horton, and Thomas none of them have gotten much playing time - if any. So if you want to call them the future of the team based on one preseason, go right ahead. I'm not so willing to put faith in meaningless games.

But I do agree that this years draft was a good class. Lets just see how it develops, and who becomes a sleeper pick vs who becomes a bust.

[Thinking Skins]

Clearly Joe hasn't visited ES.

Or listening to Steve Czaban.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Theismann noted that Gibbs won only six games in the first season of his second stint with the team, in 2004, and said Gibbs didn’t get enough criticism for that.

“Now obviously he had a 6-10 season; something went wrong,” Theismann said.

Hey, Joey T... Considering the mess that Spurrier left this team in, 6-10 was practically a gift. Joe Gibbs had a LOT of clean-up work to do - and he started well, all things considered. What did Joey T. want? A Super Bowl? Not with that team - No way.

[dinkymark67]

If Joe Gibbs gets less criticism than Vinny Cerrato it's probably because he is a proven winner who has 3 Super Bowl titles to his credit but Vinny hasn't proven anything yet. Hopefully he will.

[Voice_of_Reason]

If Joe Gibbs gets less criticism than Vinny Cerrato it's probably because he is a proven winner who has 3 Super Bowl titles to his credit but Vinny hasn't proven anything yet. Hopefully he will.

Well, he was kindof associated with some pretty damn good 49ers teams...

Or listening to Steve Czaban.

Or Brian Mitchell, Doc Walker, and even John Riggins.

I think Gibbs was playing with house money his entire second stint. He came into a complete laughing stock of an organization, with the owner complete ridiculed and the entire organization a complete and total mess. What he did was restore some order to the precedings. He cleaned house, brought in his guys, and gave it the best effort that he knew how. And it was good enough for 2 playoff appearances in 4 years, and the team he helped put together is now 2-1, and is going to be competitive all year, and should grow from here.

Brian Mitchell on the last pre-game show said he always sensed that Gibbs never wanted to be here during his second stint, he wanted to be in NASCAR. I wanted to leap through the TV and throttle him. He's such a joke.

[Jimbo]

If it wasn't for Gibbs Joey T would have been a lousey punt returner for his career.

C'mon man, as an older guy you should know your Redskins history a LOT better than you obviously do. Theismann was already an established starter when Gibbs took over in 1981. Did you forget 1979? If the defense had done their part against Dallas, the Skins, led by Theismann and Riggins, would have won the division.

What Gibbs did was bring back Riggins and give Joe T the pieces, not to mention a defense, to win it all.

I don't have a problem with what Theismann said. While many of us here think Gibbs underachieved during his second stint, I still feel like we're in the minority. We certainly took JG to task WAY MORE than the media did.

[JoeGibbsRypenGClark91]

Yes Joe. Joe Gibbs was responsible for 2000,. Taking a 10-6 division winner into a crap team.

And Joe was responsible for the Spurrierskin moves under Vinny including the Jetskins.

How about about getting a GM for Joe Gibbs? How can you expect a 65 year old man at the time be a HC, GM, President and O and expect him to do as well as he did when he was simply OC/HC at a younger age where he was mentally sharper?

[JoeGibbsRypenGClark91]

Well, he was kindof associated with some pretty damn good 49ers teams...

Or Brian Mitchell, Doc Walker, and even John Riggins.

I think Gibbs was playing with house money his entire second stint. He came into a complete laughing stock of an organization, with the owner complete ridiculed and the entire organization a complete and total mess. What he did was restore some order to the precedings. He cleaned house, brought in his guys, and gave it the best effort that he knew how. And it was good enough for 2 playoff appearances in 4 years, and the team he helped put together is now 2-1, and is going to be competitive all year, and should grow from here.

Brian Mitchell on the last pre-game show said he always sensed that Gibbs never wanted to be here during his second stint, he wanted to be in NASCAR. I wanted to leap through the TV and throttle him. He's such a joke.

Gibbs former players are not too loyal to him because he is the type who really does his own thing. He is not the type of guy to go to eat dinner at their house or call them to say how they are doing.

He is focused on God, family, making big money and nascar. Other coaches usually have nothing to do after HC so they become friends with their former players.

Joe is his own man. So i think his former players say if he don't talk to us forget him.

[RedskinNutt]

If it wasn't for Gibbs Joey T would have been a lousey punt returner for his career.

Semantics, but Joe was already the team's starter before JG came here, and wasn't all that bad. No one should be above criticism, and I disagree with Joe, Gibbs caught heat, but what more does Joe T. want? Good or bad, we still made the playoffs twice during version 2.0.

[SD Skins fan]

Any coach that takes his team to 4 Super Bowls and wins three, doesn't have to be accountable to anyone. He's proven himself as one of the best to ever coach professional football. That will never change.

[JoeGibbsRypenGClark91]

Any coach that takes his team to 4 Super Bowls and wins three, doesn't have to be accountable to anyone. He's proven himself as one of the best to ever coach professional football. That will never change.

Thing is he set himself up for critics to feast on him. He quit the team without notice in somewhat of a shocker. And when you quit the players feel like you gave up on them and the fans feel bitter.

If he came back he would have been credited as one of his best coaching jobs last year for what he helped the team get through.

I won't like. I was disappointed. He just quit for no reason. He is working harder in nascar than ever.