techboy Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I'm not a gambler, but I do love math, and the mathematics of gaming have always fascinated me. Some years, I even teach my Active Physics students blackjack as part of a Probability unit. The answer to your question, and many others regarding the mathematics of gaming, can be found at The Wizard of Odds, which should be a mandatory read for anyone that intends to gamble. It is run by Michael Shackleford, who is among other things an Adjunct Professor of Casino Math at UNLV. Your specific answer can be found on the page titled The Truth About Betting Systems. The intro... "No one can possibly win at roulette unless he steals money from the table while the croupier isn't looking." — Albert EinsteinNot only do bettings systems fail to beat casino games with a house advantage, they can't even dent it. Roulette balls and dice simply have no memory. Every spin in roulette and every toss in craps is independent of all past events. In the short run you can fool yourself into thinking a betting system works, by risking a lot to win a little. However, in the long run no betting system can withstand the test of time. Furthermore, the longer you play, the ratio of money lost to money bet will get closer to the expecation for that game. You can scroll down to see the Martingale info. By the way, Basic Strategy Blackjack is very close to the best odds in a Casino, but the very best is actually Video Poker, where there's even occassionally a player advantage depending on the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I'm not a gambler, but I do love math, and the mathematics of gaming have always fascinated me. Some years, I even teach my Active Physics students blackjack as part of a Probability unit.The answer to your question, and many others regarding the mathematics of gaming, can be found at The Wizard of Odds, which should be a mandatory read for anyone that intends to gamble. It is run by Michael Shackleford, who is among other things an Adjunct Professor of Casino Math at UNLV. Your specific answer can be found on the page titled The Truth About Betting Systems. The intro... You can scroll down to see the Martingale info. By the way, Basic Strategy Blackjack is very close to the best odds in a Casino, but the very best is actually Video Poker, where there's even occassionally a player advantage depending on the machine. The very best odds is actually table poker..........if your name is Phil Ivy. Ive never tried video poker. Table poker is actually a game of skill rather than a game of chance. There are no house odds, the house just takes a bit of the pot. Thats why i said the Sportsbook gives me the best odds. Its a game of skill, not a game of chance. There is no vig, no 'house edge', they just take a chunk of every bet. I went 18-2 this week on college football, this is how i make my loot in casinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 It is run by Michael Shackleford, who is among other things an Adjunct Professor of Casino Math at UNLV. WIN :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 The very best odds is actually table poker..........if your name is Phil Ivy. Poker is a whole other ball of wax, but I wasn't including that because while it can be found in a casino, I don't really think of it as a casino game, per se. It is, as you say, much more a game of skill than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Good stuff tech. I am still interested in the Martingale betting even if it has been disproved. I suppose that once you get up its time to walk away before the stroke of bad luck begins. I have won over $200 in one night playing video poker. Hit four of a kind. I still don't trust video poker though, as I have lost a bit as well. They have them in bars at my old college town and I would occasionally play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Poker is a whole other ball of wax, but I wasn't including that because while it can be found in a casino, I don't really think of it as a casino game, per se. It is, as you say, much more a game of skill than anything. I consider myself a very good poker player. I used to play online until all the crazy stuff rumors about it being fixed turned out to be legit. Its a lot different playing at a table in the casino. I would say poker is 70% skill and 30% luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 poker, who even plays poker anymore? :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reic Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Omaha is where its at. I like playing that more than Texas Hold'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titaw Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I consider myself a very good poker player. I used to play online until all the crazy stuff rumors about it being fixed turned out to be legit. Its a lot different playing at a table in the casino. I would say poker is 70% skill and 30% luck. Can you provide a link that states online poke is fixed? I have been playing for roughly 4 years and I've only deposited money once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Blackjack has the best odd of the Casino.By sticking to Basic Strategy you can get the odds in your favor. If you learn how to count cards really well and how make it look like you are not counting, then you can make a nice bit of change at blackjack. Almost everytime I sit down to play I walk away with $200-$300. House rules make a huge difference on how fast you can make money. I love when you can double down on any two cards. If you seriously want to start gambling, bit up several books about it. They usually have a fair amount of math in them but they talk about the odds of bets and best ways to play the game (having the least amount of odds against you) Knowing the odds, especially in craps, is the best thing for you. A knowledgeable player is a casino's nightmare, however there are far to many players who think they know what they are doing. Also, set aside a gambling fund. Take PART of it with you when you sit down at a table. That amount is an the amount you are willing to loose at that setting. If you loose it, get up and go do something else. Think of it as you paying for entertainment. Here is a little story about how the odds can bit you in the ass. I was playing blackjack at AC and I was doing pretty well. So I was feeling a little froggy and bet $100. Hand is delt I have 20 showing. Sweet! easy money right? Wrong...dealer got 21. So like a dumb ass I chased the bet (never chase your bets) and put down $200.....I get 19. Ok I should win this hand. Wrong, 21. I just had to get up and walk away I was so mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Can you provide a link that states online poke is fixed? I have been playing for roughly 4 years and I've only deposited money once. 4 years off one deposit? Well, im impressed. You either made a big deposit and play low stakes or don't play very often. Here is a what was going on at Absolute Poker. Here is a link of explaining the Scandals that rocked Absolute and Ultimate Bet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokwiro_Enterprises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Blackjack has the best odd of the Casino. Actually, as I noted above, some Video Poker machines are better, when playing optimal strategy. There are even some that give a small player advantage, when played perfectly (though I am given to understand that these are frequently monopolized by syndicates grinding out profits with large bankrolls). By sticking to Basic Strategy you can get the odds in your favor. Basic Strategy can get the odds close to even, but with the exception of certain kinds of Single Deck (good luck finding that in a Casino), it will not give you an advantage. You'll just lose money more slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidenreich Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Omaha is where its at.I like playing that more than Texas Hold'em I hate Omaha. Way too many people stay in pots & catch cards. It's all luck Look into my eyes...Roulette = BAD Stay away...far, far away. Trust me on this. I agree. I used to play Roulette a lot, and always lost. Now, I play one spin at the end of the night. Two spins if I hit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 play a game where you actually have a chance to actually use some skill and not just a wheel and a ball is my advice. I like to throw dice but even then I know its all luck and not me. Blackjack are your best odds every time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 This is how you do it: Take the money you can afford to lose. Play a game your going to really enjoy. Lose it. Walk away happy. IF by some miracle you win: Walk away ecstatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I thought that there was an maximum outside table bet that would stop that system after x number of losing rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I thought that there was an maximum outside table bet that would stop that system after x number of losing rolls. No, but there is a maximum table minimum and limit that would prevent a really lucky sonofa**** from going from a $10 bet to a $1000 bet at the same table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 No, but there is a maximum table minimum and limit that would prevent a really lucky sonofa**** from going from a $10 bet to a $1000 bet at the same table. There are table minimums and table max's, however all the dealer has to do is ask the pit boss if the bet can be placed. If he was using that system he talked about earlier I don't know a pit boss that wouldn't allow it. Easy money for the Casino. People, the games are DESIGNED to be in favor of the casino's. The best you can do (outside of basic strategy w/card counting) is bet where the odds are least against you. Stay away from slots...worst game in the casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Just play craps. It's exciting, easy, and usually everyone is winning or losing at the same time so the table can get out of control fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 It wouldnt work. The outside bets are for suckers anyways. Ive learned the hard way. At the Rio I saw a table with like 10 reds in a row. So, doing what you would think is logical, I walked up to the table and put a 100 on black. I continued to up my bets till I was down like two grand in about 15 minutes. It was red 23 times in a row!!! No bull****. Ive talked to dealers who said its gone the same color 40-50 times in a row. I stay away from the roulette tables and stick to Blackjack, poker and craps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Just play craps.It's exciting, easy, and usually everyone is winning or losing at the same time so the table can get out of control fun. Craps is by far the funnest game at the casino if your table is hot. There is nothing like it if the tables rolling good. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Actually, as I noted above, some Video Poker machines are better, when playing optimal strategy. There are even some that give a small player advantage, when played perfectly (though I am given to understand that these are frequently monopolized by syndicates grinding out profits with large bankrolls).Basic Strategy can get the odds close to even, but with the exception of certain kinds of Single Deck (good luck finding that in a Casino), it will not give you an advantage. You'll just lose money more slowly. Actually craps, played to optimal strategy is the best game in the house. And they have single deck blackjack all over vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 At the Rio I saw a table with like 10 reds in a row. So, doing what you would think is logical, I walked up to the table and put a 100 on black. The ball (and dice, and cards, and...) has no memory. This is known as the Gambler's Fallacy. Actually craps, played to optimal strategy is the best game in the house. I don't know what you mean by "best", but if you mean "best odds", this is not necessarily correct. The best odds at Craps are to play the "Pass Line", which has a house advantage of 1.41%, meaning over time the player gets 98.59% back on his money. Not bad for a casino, but not great. "Taking the Odds" can lower that house advantage somewhat, but Blackjack seems to be still better, generally, at least until you get into really big bets on the odds side. And they have single deck blackjack all over vegas. Yeah, they do, but I was talking about single deck with all the standard rules. Most (if not all) of the single deck games in Vegas have a couple of subtle twists that render the game more advantageous to the house. Some are really bad, and there to sucker people who have heard that the odds are better with single deck (or want to try counting), but don't understand all the rules and how they affect expected outcome. There's a house edge calculator on this Blackjack Strategy Page from the guy I cited earlier. The basic 1 deck game with most options has a player advantage, but plug in a few variations (like no 3:2 on Blackjack), and watch what happens. He's got a survey of the various games in Vegas and their odds on his site as well. The best you can do is a house edge of .26%, which of course, is about as well as you're going to do outside of video poker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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