A Question for Certain Posters: Why is America Incapable of Making Mistakes?

[Hubbs]

I've noticed more than one poster make reference to claims that America could possibly screw up in any way as completely and totally erroneous. The claims could come from a politician, journalist, celebrity, or even a member of this site - it doesn't really matter. Somehow, a small segment of the population subscribes to the notion that the leadership of the United States is the international equivilent of the Pope - completely infallible. This befuddles me.

Why are those who run our country incapable of making a bad decision? And why is calling them out such a bad thing? Isn't it, in fact, more American to publically tell them that they were wrong?

[SUSkinsFan]

this could get good...

[ChocolateCitySkin]

prerequisite for this belief is you have to been dropped on the head as a baby. super alot.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think the OP has a bit of hyperbole....Yes, we've made our fair share of mistakes, both at home and abroad.

No, it's not perfect.

But there isn't another country on earth to my knowledge where people for several generations have been beating down the door to get in. So we must be doing something right.

But look around, I don't think anyone is having a hard time taking the current leaders to task, and rightfully so.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Power to the people.

[Burgold]

The greatness of America used to be that we would acknowledge our mistakes and always try to improve ourselves. That is why we grew into such a great nation. Today, it seems face is much more important. People, especially those in national politics are far too interested in denying responsibility when they should be rolling up their sleeves.

Your question was the cry of America four years ago, when they asked Bush to name a mistake he'd made. The absolute refusal or inability to reflect makes progress nearly impossible. If you can't acknowledge mistakes you can't fix them. That's why the Surge took so long to happen. Rumsfield and Bush denied and refused to acknowledge they made a mistake. When finally forced to make a course correction or admit total failure, things improved.

The last eight years have been a disaster of linear, ideological thinking. The last forty years have included a series of blunders based on neglect, benign tinkering, and fear to address problems due to a desire to avoid short term pain.

[TradeTheBeal!]

The greatness of America used to be that we would acknowledge our mistakes and always try to improve ourselves. That is why we grew into such a great nation. Today, it seems face is much more important. People, especially those in national politics are far too interested in denying responsibility when they should be rolling up their sleeves.

Your question was the cry of America four years ago, when they asked Bush to name a mistake he'd made. The absolute refusal or inability to reflect makes progress nearly impossible. If you can't acknowledge mistakes you can't fix them. That's why the Surge took so long to happen. Rumsfield and Bush denied and refused to acknowledge they made a mistake. When finally forced to make a course correction or admit total failure, things improved.

The last eight years have been a disaster of linear, ideological thinking. The last forty years have included a series of blunders based on neglect, benign tinkering, and fear to address problems due to a desire to avoid short term pain.

[Kosher Ham]

America has made TOO many mistakes over the last 20 or so years.

Guess this thread wasn't for me...my apologies.

[Thiebear]

I've noticed more than one poster make reference to claims that America could possibly screw up in any way as completely and totally erroneous. The claims could come from a politician, journalist, celebrity, or even a member of this site - it doesn't really matter. Somehow, a small segment of the population subscribes to the notion that the leadership of the United States is the international equivilent of the Pope - completely infallible. This befuddles me.

Why are those who run our country incapable of making a bad decision? And why is calling them out such a bad thing? Isn't it, in fact, more American to publically tell them that they were wrong?

To make that statement you need a reference.

I'd tend to argue the opposite is being said and that is why the 3rd party is almost tied with McCain in the polling on ES with Obama twice the vote.

On a side note: 11% is the number you can remove from any poll.

you couldnt get 11% of the people to agree on ANYTHING.

[Major Harris]

if you're going to make this claim, don't dance around with a half-call-out thread. put it out there. who are you talking about, because i don't recall one person on this site that would make that wild of a claim. now, you may disagree with them on where this country's mistakes are made, and that's fine. but this is hyperbole to its' fullest extent. i'm sure this will get over 100 replies, all the qualities are there.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my mind the United States makes plenty of mistakes. HOWEVER, it is also my belief that there is no country on the fact of this planet, now or ever before, that is even close to being as Good and Right as we are. Compared to other countries our errors are considerably fewer in number and always will be; at least unti we turn our sovreignty over to the United Nations under President Obama.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my mind the United States makes plenty of mistakes. HOWEVER, it is also my belief that there is no country on the fact of this planet, now or ever before, that is even close to being as Good and Right as we are. Compared to other countries our errors are considerably fewer in number and always will be; at least unti we turn our sovreignty over to the United Nations under President Obama.

And thats where we differ Mass. I think we are a great country but I don't think being American inherently makes us better than other people.

People are people..no matter where they come from. We all have the same inherent strengths and weaknesses.

For the most part, I don't look at America as being good and everyone else being bad.

I've come to realize that America is like every other country in that we'll do what we perceive to be in our own self-interests.

[Burgold]

I don't know that we make fewer, Mass. I think we've tried really hard to correct our goofs and because of that our society and nation has improved greatly over time. However, I think we've faltered in some areas over the last 20 years, mainly because we've become more complacent and a little bit scared to dare, to risk, but overall we've made huge strides by working hard and fixing problems.

[Thiebear]

And thats where we differ Mass. I think we are a great country but I don't think being American inherently makes us better than other people.

People are people..no matter where they come from. We all have the same inherent strengths and weaknesses.

For the most part, I don't look at America as being good and everyone else being bad.

I've come to realize that America is like every other country in that we'll do what we perceive to be in our own self-interests.

Our Constitution is better as it begins with Life/Liberty/Pursuit of Happiness.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

And thats where we differ Mass. I think we are a great country but I don't think being American inherently makes us better than other people.

I'm not so sure it truly does anymore. 50 years ago I definitely believe that it did. Unfortunately we've become more European in the last half decade and because of that we've destroyed a lot of our worth.

People are people..no matter where they come from. We all have the same inherent strengths and weaknesses.

On that we will have to disagree. I truly believe that there are inherent differences on the most basic level due to the society that an individual is born into and grows up in. That's why we had the Greatest Generation in the middle of the 20th Century and we now have the Most Pathetic Generation growning through their youth in this country.

For the most part, I don't look at America as being good and everyone else being bad.

I've come to realize that America is like every other country in that we'll do what we perceive to be in our own self-interests.

We'll have to disagree there as well. Though we're slowly becoming as bad as our European and Asian counterparts.

I don't know that we make fewer, Mass. I think we've tried really hard to correct our goofs and because of that our society and nation has improved greatly over time. However, I think we've faltered in some areas over the last 20 years, mainly because we've become more complacent and a little bit scared to dare, to risk, but overall we've made huge strides by working hard and fixing problems.

I know we definitely used to make fewer than other countries, Burgold. Unfortunately you're right that in the last half a century we've greatly increased the number of mistakes we've made. We still make somewhat less than our counterparts overseas, but we're rapidly closing the gap.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Our Constitution is better as it begins with Life/Liberty/Pursuit of Happiness.

I'd have to do some research but I have to believe that there are other countries who have something similiar written into thier Constitutions.

[Thiebear]

If you run through all of the countries in the World the US is still top 5 when it comes to Freedom of Speech and other inherent gifts. Others have it "implied" but you see it removed quite often...

People hate the War in Iraq / partial for Afghan, but i agree on humanitarian it HAD to be done. If that seed actually takes it could be wonderful.

Same as Clinton rising to the top with the going against the UN and fixing Bosnia.

If you remove the partisan party glasses you can see what we've done as a nation.

Aids relief in Africa is HUGE.. I relate that to the picture on the screen in a movie where they show the spread and it expands across the entire continent... We might actually stop it.

The 30+ countries that help the United States each time is also a testament that its not a cowboy nation going it alone. The 6 party talks in North Korea may have just save millions of people.

etc.

etc.

etc.

I hate that we are the pizza delivery for the world, but sometimes that pizza keeps the incidents from becoming catastrophes.

I volunteered for Bosnia/Somalia/Kuwait during my time, They are volunteering to leave Iraq and go to Afghanistan now.. Every older generation says the next one doesnt do it the same (and get off my lawn). But they do, they always come through.

Always.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If you run through all of the countries in the World the US is still top 5 when it comes to Freedom of Speech and other inherent gifts. Others have it "implied" but you see it removed quite often...

People hate the War in Iraq / partial for Afghan, but i agree on humanitarian it HAD to be done. If that seed actually takes it could be wonderful.

Same as Clinton rising to the top with the going against the UN and fixing Bosnia.

If you remove the partisan party glasses you can see what we've done as a nation.

Aids relief in Africa is HUGE.. I relate that to the picture on the screen in a movie where they show the spread and it expands across the entire continent... We might actually stop it.

The 30+ countries that help the United States each time is also a testament that its not a cowboy nation going it alone. The 6 party talks in North Korea may have just save millions of people.

etc.

etc.

etc.

I hate that we are the pizza delivery for the world, but sometimes that pizza keeps the incidents from becoming catastrophes.

I volunteered for Bosnia/Somalia/Kuwait during my time, They are volunteering to leave Iraq and go to Afghanistan now.. Every older generation says the next one doesnt do it the same (and get off my lawn). But they do, they always come through.

Always.

Except for Iraq...I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

[ldysknzfn1]

This country makes it's share of mistakes on a daily basis. This country includes: it's leaders and it's citizens.

Guess this thread wasn't for me...<backing out>

[Heisenberg]

Mass, I've been trying to be civil with you . . .

but then you go and insult my entire generation - considering the book has just opened on our generation - and that generation is also over there fighting 2 wars that you don't seem to have any problem with.

Things like this can get people my age pretty agitated.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Things like this can get people my age pretty agitated.

GOOD. Agitated is excellent. It provides them an incentive to get away from their video games, cell phones, PDA's, etc... and to go out there and do something about it.

If your generation, and mine before it, want to be seen as something other than the fat, lazy, gutless, pieces of **** that most of our contemporaries are, they need to stop being fat, lazy, gutless, pieces of **** and learn to actually become useful, productive, moral and values-driven members of society. Unfortunately I think you know, as well as I do, that neither of our generations are ever going to do that. Your peers and mine are a large part of why our society is quickly sliding into the cesspool of worthlessness.

[Heisenberg]

GOOD. Agitated is excellent. It provides them an incentive to get away from their video games, cell phones, PDA's, etc... and to go out there and do something about it.

If your generation, and mine before it, want to be seen as something other than the fat, lazy, gutless, pieces of **** that most of our contemporaries are, they need to stop being fat, lazy, gutless, pieces of **** and learn to actually become useful, productive, moral and values-driven members of society. Unfortunately I think you know, as well as I do, that neither of our generations are ever going to do that. Your peers and mine are a large part of why our society is quickly sliding into the cesspool of worthlessness.

I really don't understand the quote at all. I respectfully disagree - the times are different, the choices of how to spend one's time are different, but in the end our generations are still overseas defending our freedoms - still concerned about issues that effect all Americans.

I don't think you are giving people proper credit.

You spend a lot of time on this message board - you also spend a lot of time at other functions that you find entertaining. I don't really see how you judge anyone else based upon what they do with those freedoms. Hell, I remember a week or two ago you were asking for recommendations for XBOX 360 games.

People from our generations are still fighting and dying for the same freedoms as the generations before them.

[mjah]

I was just thinking about "America vs. the World" last night. I have this neighbor who is Exhibit A for this. He thinks it's us vs. all of them, and we're somehow fundamentally different from everyone else. It's such shallow crap. I feel sorry for his kids.

I used to think like him too, until maybe the end of high school. Then I traveled the world over the next several years, and spent time understanding life in other countries. Once you have done that, it becomes extremely obvious that humans are humans. We aren't fundamentally different when it comes to human nature. And you don't even have to travel to realize that. Just read a good American history book.

What is fundamentally different about the US is not the fact that we're predominantly religious, or that our religion is somehow the right one, or that we're just somehow a more enlightened subspecies of human. That's all laughable, although some people seem to believe it. No, the real difference exists in our Constitutional self-rule: the rights it guarantees us, the restrictions it places upon the government, and the economic health it enables. It's an amazingly good balance between citizen and state, when it's not being used as toilet paper by a sitting president. It was inspired by previous documents like the Magna Carta and the Bible, among others. But only the Constitution puts it all together and enables us to simultaneously be powerful, thoughtful (sometimes), and fair (again, when we choose to).

And most importantly, Americans buy into it and, indeed, celebrate it. Folks who care enough to be minimally thoughtful about their country are almost universally willing to accept the imposition of responsible government in return for the promise of their basic freedoms. We hold it up as a virtuous cornerstone of human freedom to other nations, who -- when the White House isn't full of dumbasses -- also buy into it and have tremendous respect for it.

Get rid of that balance, or pretend that certain parts of it are magically more important than others (ahem, 2nd Amendment vs. 4th Amendment), and the speed with which things go to Hell will make your head spin.

It's doctrine, economics, and socialization that make us different from other countries, not something more fundamental. And it's doctrine, economics, and socialization that cause other countries to do things that cause us to recoil in disgust (China's human rights record, America's human rights record before 1865, etc.).

For people like Bush who can't fess up to their many mistakes, it's more a matter of pride and fear. Oversubscribed cowboy pride cuts off the part of their humanity that recognizes and adapts to bad situations, and they fear that admitting weakness will cause their fragile houses of cards to collapse.

Failing to admit to mistakes is a strong tell-tale that the person in question is severely deficient in character -- or perhaps mentally ill. :whoknows:

[bcl05]

Our Constitution is better as it begins with Life/Liberty/Pursuit of Happiness.

Actually, that's NOT in the consitution. Its in the Declaration of Independence.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I was just thinking about "America vs. the World" last night. I have this neighbor who is Exhibit A for this. He thinks it's us vs. all of them, and we're somehow fundamentally different from everyone else. It's such shallow crap. I feel sorry for his kids.

I used to think like him too, until maybe the end of high school. Then I traveled the world over the next several years, and spent time understanding life in other countries. Once you have done that, it becomes extremely obvious that humans are humans. We aren't fundamentally different when it comes to human nature. And you don't even have to travel to realize that. Just read a good American history book.

What is fundamentally different about the US is not the fact that we're predominantly religious, or that our religion is somehow the right one, or that we're just somehow a more enlightened subspecies of human. That's all laughable, although some people seem to believe it. No, the real difference exists in our Constitutional self-rule: the rights it guarantees us, the restrictions it places upon the government, and the economic health it enables. It's an amazingly good balance between citizen and state, when it's not being used as toilet paper by a sitting president. It was inspired by previous documents like the Magna Carta and the Bible, among others. But only the Constitution puts it all together and enables us to simultaneously be powerful, thoughtful (sometimes), and fair (again, when we choose to).

And most importantly, Americans buy into it and, indeed, celebrate it. Folks who care enough to be minimally thoughtful about their country are almost universally willing to accept the imposition of responsible government in return for the promise of their basic freedoms. We hold it up as a virtuous cornerstone of human freedom to other nations, who -- when the White House isn't full of dumbasses -- also buy into it and have tremendous respect for it.

Get rid of that balance, or pretend that certain parts of it are magically more important than others (ahem, 2nd Amendment vs. 4th Amendment), and the speed with which things go to Hell will make your head spin.

It's doctrine, economics, and socialization that make us different from other countries, not something more fundamental. And it's doctrine, economics, and socialization that cause other countries to do things that cause us to recoil in disgust (China's human rights record, America's human rights record before 1865, etc.).

For people like Bush who can't fess up to their many mistakes, it's more a matter of pride and fear. Oversubscribed cowboy pride cuts off the part of their humanity that recognizes and adapts to bad situations, and they fear that admitting weakness will cause their fragile houses of cards to collapse.

Failing to admit to mistakes is a strong tell-tale that the person in question is severely deficient in character -- or perhaps mentally ill. :whoknows:

:notworthy :notworthy