Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Intellectual dishonesty.. this thread has it! One does not need to live in a mud hut to reduce one's own carbon footprint. And one does not need to limit energy consumption to limit one's carbon foot print. The people making these arguments about Gore KNOW THIS and thus the intellectual dishonesty. 1- Why exactly is a well known politician/activist being compared to the average household? Isn't that, on it's face, a laughable comparison? The guy doesn't lead an average life. His week isn't a 9-5 job with a once a year trip. He goes to meet with movers and shakers all the time and has people over all the time. That's like comparing the fuel consumption of a truck driver with an average american... it's just plain stupid, and clearly dishonest. 2- Leaving out what Gore does to reduce his impact in terms of pollution while talking about his energy use is plainly dishonest. It's like complaining that someone drives to work instead of taking the metro... leaving out that he carpools with 5 people. It's an incomplete story with the intent of misleading the audience... there is another word for this. Dishonesty. Has anyone bothered to talk about what his energy consumption is for? How the man by tooling around the country in a jet has also spread the green message and lead to policy changes and personal changes all accross the country? All that difference, ignored. Let's intead dumb it down until we might have a point to make. Hooray for you guys! I have a problem with global warming allowing the GOP to get around talking about their own record on the enviroment (basically fighting for companies rights to destroy it every chance they get). I don't like Gore's campiagn here because it's allowed the focus to shift from the Republicans effort to weaken protections and placed it on a theory of global change. So please don't confuse me with a Gore supporter, I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 What's dishonest Des is the left wings portrayal of the entire issue. Guiys like Gore dont give a rats ass about the environment. They care about having the ISSUE of the environment. Paying his own company to "offset" his own carbon footprint usage? C'mon. The lengths people go to defend this obvious hypocrisy is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 What's dishonest Des is the left wings portrayal of the entire issue. Guiys like Gore dont give a rats ass about the environment. They care about having the ISSUE of the environment. I don't believe that for a second. There is a very obvious pattern on the enviroment between the left and right. Believe it or not among democrats giving a **** about the planet we live on is pretty common. Paying his own company to "offset" his own carbon footprint usage? C'mon.Remind me again what president came up with this idea and made it his enviromental/energy policy. Certainly seemed to be popular amongst you guys then.The lengths people go to defend this obvious hypocrisy is astounding.Pointing out the fact that you guys are stopping just short of telling direct lies isn't a great length. It's status quo actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Okay, i have an even better answer for him. Insteead of flying, maybe Mr. al Green should start taking advantage of technology (video conferencing systems). He could install a nice one at his house for under 20k and earn plenty of "energy credits". How do you know he doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I can't believe you guys are actually defending Al Gore in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 How do you know he doesn't? Because he flies to places. You even linked an article about it. I was posting a tele conferencing system as an alternative to flying for Mr. Al Green. He probably does have one, he obviously doesn't use it though. The next thing he will be promoting is "tele" commuting" while flying all over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Pointing out the fact that you guys are stopping just short of telling direct lies isn't a great length. It's status quo actually. So because some of us think that Al Gore is a hypocrite and explaining our reasons makes us liars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I can't believe you guys are actually defending Al Gore in this instance. I'm not so much defending him as asking those attacking him to provide substance other than "he sometimes flies in a jet" and "he has a big house" and "he should never go anywhere because he can teleconference." So far I've got nothin. (Actually, keeastman has at least made the attempt to back up her suppositions with some facts. And that's much appreciated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 So because some of us think that Al Gore is a hypocrite and explaining our reasons makes us liars? I've already explained the dishonesty I see in this thread. Feel free to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Because he flies to places. You even linked an article about it.I was posting a tele conferencing system as an alternative to flying for Mr. Al Green. He probably does have one, he obviously doesn't use it though. The next thing he will be promoting is "tele" commuting" while flying all over the world. That's great but relationship building requires face time. If he wants to actually get people on his side and expand his network he has to show up, shake hands, and make nice. This is sales 101. You can do a lot over the phone but nothing replaces actually sitting down with people looking them in the eye and stating your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 That's great but relationship building requires face time. If he wants to actually get people on his side and expand his network he has to show up, shake hands, and make nice. This is sales 101. You can do a lot over the phone but nothing replaces actually sitting down with people looking them in the eye and stating your case. Video conferencing my man, it is the way of the future. I consider myself a professional salesman, I have sold plenty over the phone and I agree face time is important, however it is not necasary on all occasions. For someone who is supposedly leading the way on being "green" and "carbon credits" he isn't doing a good job of leading by example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Because he flies to places. You even linked an article about it.I was posting a tele conferencing system as an alternative to flying for Mr. Al Green. He probably does have one, he obviously doesn't use it though. The next thing he will be promoting is "tele" commuting" while flying all over the world. Just because he flies places doen't mean he doesn't also use teleconferencing. There are sometimes things that are just done better face to face. The big thing is if you are going to meetings with hundreds of peoples, you can give a talk via teleconferencing, but you aren't there afterwards for whatever social activities that are going on and that is frequently when/where things actually get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 What's dishonest Des is the left wings portrayal of the entire issue. Guiys like Gore dont give a rats ass about the environment. They care about having the ISSUE of the environment.Isn't it possible that they care BOTH about the environment AND having the issue of the environment?I think politicians run the entire spectrum on every issue. There are issues they support just for political benefit, and there are issues they genuinely care about. For example, Dick Cheney benefits from the issue of gay marriage while not actually wanting to deal with it, but he probably genuinely cares about projecting U.S. power and influence around the world. Ted Kennedy probably doesn't have the environment high up on his list, but I think he genuinely cares about Medicare and Social Security and providing for the elderly. That's what a political party is - it's a collection of individuals who all care about different things, but agree to adopt each others' issues to form a coalition. Al Gore strikes me as somebody who does genuinely care about the environment. I don't think he was faking it when he sponsored hearings about toxic waste and global warming back in the 80's. He's not going on tours about global warming to gain political power or just to make money. He cares about the issue, and I think he is genuinely convinced of what he says. Is he a bit of a hypocrite? Sure, but who isn't when it comes to issues like these? We can't all send their children to war, we can't protest every instance of injustice, and we can't all spend our lives as organic farmers. We do what we can, and Al Gore is doing what he can. The hypocrite accusations are valid, but they shouldn't make us think that the message isn't valid, or that Gore doesn't believe in it. Al Gore is only human. He cares about the environment. And so should you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'm not so much defending him as asking those attacking him to provide substance other than "he sometimes flies in a jet" and "he has a big house" and "he should never go anywhere because he can teleconference."So far I've got nothin. (Actually, keeastman has at least made the attempt to back up her suppositions with some facts. And that's much appreciated.) And your thoughtful insight and contribution is very much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Has anyone bothered to talk about what his energy consumption is for? How the man by tooling around the country in a jet has also spread the green message and lead to policy changes and personal changes all accross the country? All that difference, ignored. Let's intead dumb it down until we might have a point to make. Hooray for you guys! i believe that was the point, Yusuf, Henry, TSF and I all made. but again I concede, taking an aggregate part of his entire campaign one can find a moment of hypocrisy -- no matter how trivial and irrelevant that moment is. in the age of information and we seemingly manage to dilute progressive messages into silly talking points. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Just because he flies places doen't mean he doesn't also use teleconferencing. There are sometimes things that are just done better face to face. The big thing is if you are going to meetings with hundreds of peoples, you can give a talk via teleconferencing, but you aren't there afterwards for whatever social activities that are going on and that is frequently when/where things actually get done. I agree, however I am not the one running around all over the place preaching about '"being green". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 That's great but relationship building requires face time. If he wants to actually get people on his side and expand his network he has to show up, shake hands, and make nice. This is sales 101. You can do a lot over the phone but nothing replaces actually sitting down with people looking them in the eye and stating your case. So any rich guy that needs face time is allowed to do as Al does? Just trying to see where the line in the sand is drawn. And do you honestly believe that the ONLY time he ever uses his private jet is for going to conferences/meetings to spread his message of green? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 What the argument in this thread really is, is that you can't be a enviromental activist of any consequence without being labeled a hyocrite. Either you preach the green message and live in a mud hut and organically farm all your own food (and be completely ignored)... or you have no credibility. Nonsense. I'm not willing to allow this extremely dishonest framing of the debate. Especially when the people lobbing accusations of hypocrisy support a party that would shave down every mountain, poison every river, wipe out every species, and poison the air for any promise of profit. Consider the source the hypocrisy accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 So any rich guy that needs face time is allowed to do as Al does? Just trying to see where the line in the sand is drawn. And do you honestly believe that the ONLY time he ever uses his private jet is for going to conferences/meetings to spread his message of green? Any rich guy that needs face time already does what Al does. Al stands out as actually trying to take action to reduce his impact. And no I don't believe the only time he uses his jet is for green business. I don't expect him to either. He's not the green jesus, he's flawed like anyone else. But you know what? He's trying to make a difference while his enemies are trying to complain for the sake of politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 What the argument in this thread really is, is that you can't be a enviromental activist of any consequence without being labeled a hyocrite. Either you preach the green message and live in a mud hut and organically farm all your own food (and be completely ignored)... or you have no credibility. Nonsense.I'm not willing to allow this extremely dishonest framing of the debate. Especially when the people lobbing accusations of hypocrisy support a party that would shave down every mountain, poison every river, wipe out every species, and poison the air for any promise of profit. Consider the source the hypocrisy accusations. Gotta love the generalizations, Pot meet Kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Gotta love the generalizations, Pot meet Kettle. You don't support the GOP? I'm happy to be wrong but the GOP is what I say it is. They have no enviromental policy other than to try to diminish it in order to increase access for corporations. Offshore drilling, drilling in parks, fighting emission standards, supporting strip mining, fighting the addition of animals to the endangered species list, fighting to remove animals from the list prematurely... I mean the record of republicans is long and disgusting on this topic. This BTW is why I don't like Al Gore's little movement and republicans should love it. Instead of talking about what the GOP is actually doing we are debating global warming as a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 You don't support the GOP? He's another of those 'independents', like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 You don't support the GOP? All republicans want to scorch the earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 All republicans want to scorch the earth? You think finding a handul that don't changes the fact that the party as a whole has a long track record? If you don't but you still vote for those that do... what's the net effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 He's another of those 'independents', like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. Can't stand Rush, don't listen to OReilly. I think George Bush is to much of a liberal on some things. Lets say Michael Savage "Independant Conservative" type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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