headexplode Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Unions-huh! Good god, y'all, what are they good for? Absolutely nothing (say it again!). It is a scientific fact that the Teacher's Unions are the most dangerous terrorist organization operating in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I work for UPS, so I'm a teamster and I can say that it does help. Compare UPS drivers to Fedex drivers and you'll take being a UPS driver 9/10 times. Both get abused, but Fedex is way worse, and while Fedex drivers have to buy their trucks (and pay for gas and everything) UPS drivers get a good wage and benefits (great retirement plan from what I've heard) without having to pay for the trucks at all. UPS would be awful to work for if there wasn't a union present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I saw a TV show about two auto workers. One guy worked up in Michigan had a wife and kids. He was proud to be apart of the Union and the union fought for his rights. However, he was going to be laid off do to the recent negotiations that gave autoworkers even MORE benifits. The company had to lay people off so they could pay those benifits. But, he was PROUD to be apart of the union. Second part was a single woman with two kids who worked for an foreign automaker in NC. She was so happy because he job paid her a very good wage and had very good benifits. She was able to live comfortably and take very good of her two kids without being on public assistance. She was not apart of a Union. In this day and age, Unions have no purpose. There are plenty of protections for workers. The whole argument of we want our fair share is pure bunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 All you need to know about unions is to look at union states economies (Mich, Ohio) and right to work states economies (Va, Texas, NC). Every state that is a union state is experiencing a loss in the blue collar industries. All of the right to work states are seeing massive gains in blue collar industires. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I saw a TV show about two auto workers. One guy worked up in Michigan had a wife and kids. He was proud to be apart of the Union and the union fought for his rights. However, he was going to be laid off do to the recent negotiations that gave autoworkers even MORE benifits. The company had to lay people off so they could pay those benifits. But, he was PROUD to be apart of the union.Second part was a single woman with two kids who worked for an foreign automaker in NC. She was so happy because he job paid her a very good wage and had very good benifits. She was able to live comfortably and take very good of her two kids without being on public assistance. She was not apart of a Union. In this day and age, Unions have no purpose. There are plenty of protections for workers. The whole argument of we want our fair share is pure bunk. So, your arguement is based on what you saw on one TV show about 2 workers? What are these "protections for workers" that you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10fttall Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 All you need to know about unions is to look at union states economies (Mich, Ohio) and right to work states economies (Va, Texas, NC). Every state that is a union state is experiencing a loss in the blue collar industries. All of the right to work states are seeing massive gains in blue collar industires. Coincidence? Game over. Close the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 All you need to know about unions is to look at union states economies (Mich, Ohio) and right to work states economies (Va, Texas, NC). Every state that is a union state is experiencing a loss in the blue collar industries. All of the right to work states are seeing massive gains in blue collar industires. Coincidence?The correlation seems to be more geographic than necessarily union-related: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 The correlation seems to be more geographic than necessarily union-related:That would be a great slide show if it addressed only blue collar jobs. It looks simply at state GDP, which isn't even close to accurate. GDP growth is a good indicator, but if you break it down to blue collar jobs, right to work states are growing and union states are shrinking. Not the overall economy of a state, just the blue collar portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 That would be a great slide show if it addressed only blue collar jobs. It looks simply at state GDP, which isn't even close to accurate. GDP growth is a good indicator, but if you break it down to blue collar jobs, right to work states are growing and union states are shrinking. Not the overall economy of a state, just the blue collar portion.Can you point me to those numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 All you need to know about unions is to look at union states economies (Mich, Ohio) and right to work states economies (Va, Texas, NC). Every state that is a union state is experiencing a loss in the blue collar industries. All of the right to work states are seeing massive gains in blue collar industires. Coincidence? Do you know what a right to work state actually is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Well my Union is strong and powerful. It is for Government employees and they do alot for those who need them. The union contract for employees compared to non-union employees is very different and favors the union members. As a union member to get fired from here you must committ a crime. As a union member if you get a negative review you can contest it a seek reassignment. They must grant your request. Non-Union members need to get a poor evaluation and if you have not gotten better in 6 months you are out. As a non-union member if someone has an axe to grind against you; you are screwed. Union members get the protection of not having a vindictive boss take it out on you and getting you fired. Union all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Do you know what a right to work state actually is?Yeah, I do. And I think I see where this is going. Yes, there are unions in right to work states. But they don't control the states. You can't open a car manufacturing pland in Detroit and not be unionized. You can in Texas, NC, VA... If you look at the jobs leaving the OH, MICH you can see they are sprouting up in Txas and NC without the unions. And the workers are making good money with good benefits. Of course, the state tax laws play into this as well. But unions play a major role. And the unions recognize this, which is why they are conceeding a whole lot more now than they ever have. They know they are on the brink of irrelevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Well my Union is strong and powerful.That will begin to change, so enjoy it while it lasts.It is for Government employees and they do alot for those who need them. The union contract for employees compared to non-union employees is very different and favors the union members.I doubt it is as big a difference as you think. Otherwise you would see lawsuits based on discrimination.As a union member to get fired from here you must committ a crime. As a union member if you get a negative review you can contest it a seek reassignment. They must grant your request.And this is horrible. God forbid you be held to high standard based on the job you do. As long as you don't get arrested, guarenteed job and raises. Yeah!! One of the biggest detractions a union offers summed up right here.Non-Union members need to get a poor evaluation and if you have not gotten better in 6 months you are out.So, employment based on performance? What a novel idea. How dare a company expect you to produce as a grounds for pay and benefits.As a non-union member if someone has an axe to grind against you; you are screwed.Union members get the protection of not having a vindictive boss take it out on you and getting you fired. Are you serious? That is a basis for having a union? So less than 1% incident rate is grounds for a union? Please. :doh: Union all the way!To hell in a handbasket. Productivity should determine employment. PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Well the Union keeps tha mangement in check. Not all industries need unions but some still do. 1% incident rate - How many families are effected by that. If you happen to be the 1% you would be glad you had a union on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Well the Union keeps tha mangement in check.No it doesn't. If anything, unions piss off the management. Imagine, not being able to terminate an employee who does 50% less than the guy in the cube next to him. Because he hasn't committed a crime. The guy next to him can't be compensated at the same rate as the union guy because the union would **** a brick if a non-union member were being compensated more than there guy. The union today is equivalent to the mob back in the day: Pay me $X every paycheck for protection and we will take care of you. If not, we will try to make your life miserable to the point you leave.Not all industries need unions but some still do.The only industries that need unions are essential personel: nurses, EMT, fire, police and the like. Plumbers do NOT need a union.1% incident rate - How many families are effected by that. If you happen to be the 1% you would be glad you had a union on your side.Key words in my post were LESS THAN 1%. The true % of workers victimized by a vindictive boss can't be higher that 1/100 of 1%. And those cases can be solved with litigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 That would be a great slide show if it addressed only blue collar jobs. It looks simply at state GDP, which isn't even close to accurate. GDP growth is a good indicator, but if you break it down to blue collar jobs, right to work states are growing and union states are shrinking. Not the overall economy of a state, just the blue collar portion. Of course, that is the exact same argument that pushes blue collar jobs to Mexico and Asia as well. If permitted, business will always seek to lower wages by moving to lower wage/benefit areas. Right now, the right to work states are cannibalizing the traditional union states. Overseas nations will continue to cannibalize those jobs from the right to work states. Employers win, workers lose. That's the only real lesson here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 No it doesn't. If anything, unions piss off the management. Imagine, not being able to terminate an employee who does 50% less than the guy in the cube next to him. Because he hasn't committed a crime. The guy next to him can't be compensated at the same rate as the union guy because the union would **** a brick if a non-union member were being compensated more than there guy. The union today is equivalent to the mob back in the day: Pay me $X every paycheck for protection and we will take care of you. If not, we will try to make your life miserable to the point you leave. Wow buddy....well this doesn't reflect the union I'm with. My Union is professional and handles business in that type of manner professional. Our pay is o the government scale so there is no beef with that. In regards to that 50% less work. I don't know what you are talking about. If someone does 50% less than they should expect to get fired. But a union will negotiate with the management and see what is the problem that the person is producing less. The Union can help get that person a position that will allow the person to be more productive. You can't just treat people like robots and expect all situations to be the same. My union is not all bullish as you make out. They are here to help the employee who may not have the resources that the employer has. Quality of life issues are handled by the union to make the work environment beneficial for all and not just the union members. Key words in my post were LESS THAN 1%. The true % of workers victimized by a vindictive boss can't be higher that 1/100 of 1%. And those cases can be solved with litigation. Litigation you got to be kidding me. Security will have you out the door faster than you could say it. Without a union when they say get out you are gone. But with a union they(union) can say "hold up let's talk about this first". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Unions allow people like rincewind to get "married". Not that there's anything wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 It is a scientific fact that the Teacher's Unions are the most dangerous terrorist organization operating in America. Right. Let me guess, you learned that "scientific fact" from your Creation Science teacher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 All you need to know about unions is to look at union states economies (Mich, Ohio) and right to work states economies (Va, Texas, NC). Every state that is a union state is experiencing a loss in the blue collar industries. All of the right to work states are seeing massive gains in blue collar industires. Coincidence? And the fact that those union states were built around old, heavy manufacturing industries whereas the right to work states are experiencing growth in newer, more dynamic industries isn't a factor, huh? The only differences between the economies of Detroit and Silicon Valley is the presence of Unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Composition, by party, of state delegations in the 110th United States House of Representatives. Close, but not exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I was thinking about claiming that "They function well as boogymen to encourage people to vote Republican. Well, them and Muslims. And gays. And lawyers. And the ACLU. And scientists. And trees. And minorities." But the thread seemed (mostly) non-political and rational. (But hey, now that I can claim you started it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 And the fact that those union states were built around old, heavy manufacturing industries whereas the right to work states are experiencing growth in newer, more dynamic industries isn't a factor, huh? The only differences between the economies of Detroit and Silicon Valley is the presence of Unions.I don't remember comparing Detroit and Silicon Valley. I compared Mich to Texas. And the blue collar jobs are moving out of union states. More profit to be made in those states. And the people that are working these jobs are happy to be working. Don't get me wrong, unions were an integral part of the rise of the US. But they have run their course. Business today understands they have to take care of employees in order to keep the employees. And the unions are aware of this and have begun to conceed points they would never have conceeded 25 years ago. If the unions can admit they are becoming obsolete (for the most part), why is it so difficult for the general public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Business today understands they have to take care of employees in order to keep the employees. What if they don't take care of their employees. "If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...a Union Rep!!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 What if they don't take care of their employees."If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...a Union Rep!!!!!" The good employees leave for a business that will. Simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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