Advice for a nice guy: Update need more advice

[DjTj]

This article appeared in yesterday's NY Times. I not only found it interesting, but applicable to an issue I'm currently dealing with.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/science/26tier.html?ref=health

If the general’s tactics seem too crude, Dr. Ariely recommends another role model, Rhett Butler, for his supreme moment of unpredictable rationality at the end of his marriage. Scarlett, like the rest of us, can’t bear the pain of giving up an option, but Rhett recognizes the marriage’s futility and closes the door with astonishing elan. Frankly, he doesn’t give a damn.

That was a really good article, and it seems to have good advice. The ending of Gone with the Wind really is apropos for this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ7z6hpO57c

[rdsknbill]

My daughter definitely is and always has been priority number 1 for me. Supposedly even though she said there is no good reason for what she did, she did it because I didn't give her enough attention. This is probably due to the fact that my world now revolves around my daughter, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

I've never been in this situation, so I can't really comment. I am married with three kids (2 teenagers and an 8 year old)

My question (or confusion) is this. Your girl claims that you didn't pay enough attention to her because of your daughter. And that your world revolves around your daughter (as it should). Did she not care about the child that you two had together? Were you not raising her together? Some of my fondest memories are of my wife and I doing stuff with our kids when they were babies. Taking walks, bath time, or just hanging out.

Just my observation.

If it doesn't work out, do as others said on here. Get a good attorney and cover your ass, both finacially and custody wise.

Good luck man.

[jnhay]

You said exactly what my family keeps telling me over and over. It just doesn't pay to be a nice person in this world anymore.

Although through all of this, I will always be able to say I got the best thing I could have ever asked for in having an awesome daughter.

Your situation sounds a lot like my brother's. He won't admit it, but I can't imagine he's really happy with the way his wife treats him. He's too nice and is constantly being taken advantage of, and he has a one year old daughter to complicate things more. He really wants things to work, and is trying to totally ignore what's really going on.

You're not all of a sudden going to give your wife more attention if you get back together. How are either of you going to be happy?

[BKSkinsFan]

I've never been in this situation, so I can't really comment. I am married with three kids (2 teenagers and an 8 year old)

My question (or confusion) is this. Your girl claims that you didn't pay enough attention to her because of your daughter. And that your world revolves around your daughter (as it should). Did she not care about the child that you two had together? Were you not raising her together? Some of my fondest memories are of my wife and I doing stuff with our kids when they were babies. Taking walks, bath time, or just hanging out.

Just my observation.

If it doesn't work out, do as others said on here. Get a good attorney and cover your ass, both finacially and custody wise.

Good luck man.

Well she never said that I didn't pay enough attention to her because of my daughter. She said I wasn't affectionate with her, and ignored her, so she'd start finding reasons to leave the house. This in turn put me in a position of being the only one with my daughter, and being angry with her not being a part of the family, which caused me to not want to show her any affection. We're both actually kind of confused over how this happened, it's almost like which one came first .. the chicken or the egg?

Not that her leaving was a constant thing, but I'd say once or twice a week she'd find an excuse to get out for awhile. Then this past month it got worse, and that was due to the affair I believe.

Doing things together as a family is something I really wanted, but it seemed more like we just split all the responsibilities, and did some things together, but nowhere near how it should be.

[BKSkinsFan]

Your situation sounds a lot like my brother's. He won't admit it, but I can't imagine he's really happy with the way his wife treats him. He's too nice and is constantly being taken advantage of, and he has a one year old daughter to complicate things more. He really wants things to work, and is trying to totally ignore what's really going on.

You're not all of a sudden going to give your wife more attention if you get back together. How are either of you going to be happy?

I think that may have been my biggest problem. Nice people want to avoid conflict and just endure things hoping it will just go away. If I had been more open and honest, who knows, she may have realized earlier how selfish she was acting, or we would have ended things earlier.

[jnhay]

I find it weird how your wife could focus on an affair when she has a 2 year old daughter at home that she should focus on. She somehow finds a way to blame you, but you aren't to blame at all.

[MikeInJc aka M.I.A.]

I find it weird how your wife could focus on an affair when she has a 2 year old daughter at home that she should focus on. She somehow finds a way to blame you, but you aren't to blame at all.

Women are mysterious individuals, that's all you need to know;)

BK the last thing you need to do is trying to find fault within yourself. From what you posted earlier it's obvious you didn't cause this. Don't beat yourself up trying to find fault, it's obvious where the fault lies. Save your strength and stop focusing on faults for right now. We are here for ya.

Also, when football season comes along, the ES tailgate is a good way to escape everything and have fun, it worked for me when going through my divorce:)

[rdsknbill]

Women are mysterious individuals, that's all you need to know;)

BK the last thing you need to do is trying to find fault within yourself. From what you posted earlier it's obvious you didn't cause this. Don't beat yourself up trying to find fault, it's obvious where the fault lies. Save your strength and stop focusing on faults for right now. We are here for ya.

Also, when football season comes along, the ES tailgate is a good way to escape everything and have fun, it worked for me when going through my divorce:)

Mike, Do you even remember those tailgate parties? :2drunks: :thud:

:laugh:

[CandaceM23]

Paging H_H ....

Paging H_H ....

[DGreenistheBest]

BK the last thing you need to do is trying to find fault within yourself. From what you posted earlier it's obvious you didn't cause this. Don't beat yourself up trying to find fault, it's obvious where the fault lies. Save your strength and stop focusing on faults for right now. We are here for ya.

What he said. Trying to figure out where you might have gone wrong is an excercise in futility. When these things happen, it's rarely a case of one person being to blame. Many many things play into it, some of them completely out of anyone's control. All you can do is move forward.

[Mark The Homer]

If there's even a minute chance at reconciliation, go to a marriage counselor. Try to make it work. If you try and it fails, at least you tried. Do it for your daughter.

[Kosher Ham]

Don't go back bro. Not even for the kid. Do NOT.

[BKSkinsFan]

If there's even a minute chance at reconciliation, go to a marriage counselor. Try to make it work. If you try and it fails, at least you tried. Do it for your daughter.

Don't go back bro. Not even for the kid. Do NOT.

This is what's difficult. Not just here, but everyone from family to friends are giving me differing opinions. I know I need to do what's best for me, and everyone will support my decision, it's just hard weeding through all the advice and trying to find what my true feelings are on this.

At this point, I feel that it's completely necessary to move forward and go through with the divorce. If there is a remote chance that she can get counseling and change the things that drove us apart, there's always the possibility of us getting back together.

It's just hard right now to not want to jump back in and try to get my family back together again, even though it was obviously miserable for both of us for quite some time. We do seem to be communicating rather well right now, but I honestly cannot trust that she is truly genuine or possibly has an ulterior motive. Credit card debt and seeing how difficult things will be for her on her own may have a hand in her thinking.

On the bright side, I got my daughter last night, and even though there were a couple moments of her crying for her Mommy, I've had a good time with her.

[Bang]

Been there.

Don't reconcile. It will never go away. Right now you're grieving and will look for any shred of hope for life to be as it was.

It won't be.

One, you'll never forget, and even if you try to hide it, one day it will come out and hell begins all over again.

two, as cruel as it sounds, if she did it once, she'll do it fifty times. She has no respect for you, and you need to recognize that. And it's not your fault she's that way.

If you want custody and think you would be best for your daughter, go for it. If not, get joint custody. It effectively handcuffs your wife's ability to leverage the child against you. (And that'll happen, too.)

There's nothing easy about right now. emotions are running high and it will lead you to not be as hard as you probably need to be right now.

Be amicable, if that is what it is about, and always remember there's a child involved. DON'T put the kid in the middle of things.

If you're not going to be amicable (or she's not) be firm and detach from the old flame you might still feel. It won't do anything now but make you weak for the coming fight.

~Bang

[Kosher Ham]

Great points Bang. Along the line of what my response would be if he responded. Which was only a few minutes ago (good timing).

Also, let's not forget that you will never fully trust OR respect her again.

If you go back it will be a shell of the original relationship that got you to the point of marriage.

Don't get me wrong you have to maintain some type of healthy relationship with her because of the child, but if you take her back you are settling for less than you deserve. Never settle. Never abandon your child for a relationship with his/her Mother.

P.S. - Do not under any circumstances sleep with her again.

[Mark The Homer]

You might want to take a look at point #1 here:

http://www.andrewsmcmeel.com/press_releases/pr_six_point.html

[BKSkinsFan]

You might want to take a look at point #1 here:

http://www.andrewsmcmeel.com/press_releases/pr_six_point.html

I totally understand that staying together is important for a child. However, given my circumstances, I just don't know if that is actually best for me. My wife will be the first to admit that I deserve so much more than what she's given me. I know details about her affairs that are beyond uncool, and I've spent some sleepless nights with those images burnt in my head.

She's lied to me after I found out, and I as much as I want to believe her right now, I think it's probably wise to keep in mind the person saying these things about wanting counseling and hoping time apart can make things better some day is the same person who was out with some guy every night after work for like 2 weeks cheating on me while I was at home watching our daughter, making dinner, and enduring being in a relationship with a self centered selfish person.

Even after saying all that, I am having feelings right now of wanting nothing more than to have her back, and have things back to normal, not just back to normal, but continuing communicating our feelings and how each of us felt about what was going wrong with our relationship so we can fix it. We had a great talk last night and I got a lot out on how the things she was doing besides the cheating is what made me miserable with her. I still told her though, that I think I need to make the divorce final, and give myself an oppurtunity to be with someone who can truly make me happy. I will not completely rule out that somewhere down the road, that she may still be that person.

[DeanCollins]

This is what's difficult. Not just here, but everyone from family to friends are giving me differing opinions. I know I need to do what's best for me, and everyone will support my decision, it's just hard weeding through all the advice and trying to find what my true feelings are on this.

At this point, I feel that it's completely necessary to move forward and go through with the divorce. If there is a remote chance that she can get counseling and change the things that drove us apart, there's always the possibility of us getting back together.

It's just hard right now to not want to jump back in and try to get my family back together again, even though it was obviously miserable for both of us for quite some time. We do seem to be communicating rather well right now, but I honestly cannot trust that she is truly genuine or possibly has an ulterior motive. Credit card debt and seeing how difficult things will be for her on her own may have a hand in her thinking.

On the bright side, I got my daughter last night, and even though there were a couple moments of her crying for her Mommy, I've had a good time with her.

Hey BK, I had a similar experience, although it didn't involve infidelity (till immediately after we split up) the result was the same and my son was 2yo. It's "normal" to go back and forth, but the decision isn't yours to make, it was made a long time ago by your x-wife's immuturity. Her neediness that made her find "attention" elsewhere, didn't have much to with you as she would've done that in any marriage given the eb and flow of relationships. Bottom line is that she was not emotionally secure enough to be in a marriage and won't be, next week, month, or year, until some profound change in her

personality occurs, which isn't likely. People don't change until they've had enough consequences to take a look at themselves, which isn't happening because she is blaming you for not giving her the "attention" that she Needed. By remaining in this relationship, you will be validating her reasoning and denying her the consequences for her incorrect actions and it will happen again. Cut your loses, life after divorce is good. My son is 21 now and in college. My x and I have a good relationship and it's plan as day that we where completely incompatible, and now she's on husband #3 :laugh:

[DGreenistheBest]

I know I need to do what's best for me

You have to do what's best for your daughter.

Been there.

Don't reconcile. It will never go away. Right now you're grieving and will look for any shred of hope for life to be as it was.

It won't be.

One, you'll never forget, and even if you try to hide it, one day it will come out and hell begins all over again.

two, as cruel as it sounds, if she did it once, she'll do it fifty times. She has no respect for you, and you need to recognize that. And it's not your fault she's that way.

If you want custody and think you would be best for your daughter, go for it. If not, get joint custody. It effectively handcuffs your wife's ability to leverage the child against you. (And that'll happen, too.)

There's nothing easy about right now. emotions are running high and it will lead you to not be as hard as you probably need to be right now.

Be amicable, if that is what it is about, and always remember there's a child involved. DON'T put the kid in the middle of things.

If you're not going to be amicable (or she's not) be firm and detach from the old flame you might still feel. It won't do anything now but make you weak for the coming fight.

~Bang

Great points Bang. Along the line of what my response would be if he responded. Which was only a few minutes ago (good timing).

Also, let's not forget that you will never fully trust OR respect her again.

If you go back it will be a shell of the original relationship that got you to the point of marriage.

Don't get me wrong you have to maintain some type of healthy relationship with her because of the child, but if you take her back you are settling for less than you deserve. Never settle. Never abandon your child for a relationship with his/her Mother.

P.S. - Do not under any circumstances sleep with her again.

Listen to what these guys are telling you.

[Mark The Homer]

Most people in this thread seem to be telling you to dump the *****. That is the emotionally correct thing to do. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing to do.

Others on here have had experience in this area, and I have not. Having said that, you still have a very young daughter who needs stability in her life.

Think about the commitment you made when you decided to have your child. I think if you do the research, you will see that, most of all, raising a child is about stability and sacrifice. It's about not being selfish.

In my mind, it comes down to this: Is there any possibility the marriage is salvageable? Answer the question honestly.

If the answer is yes, then it seems to me you should seek out a marriage counselor. Do everything you can to make it work.

If the answer is no, it's not your fault. Find a divorce lawyer. Be willing to take some hits. Be sure to keep things as amicable as humanly possible.

Note: I have two well-adjusted teenage daughters.

[jnhay]

Even after saying all that, I am having feelings right now of wanting nothing more than to have her back, and have things back to normal, not just back to normal, but continuing communicating our feelings and how each of us felt about what was going wrong with our relationship so we can fix it. We had a great talk last night and I got a lot out on how the things she was doing besides the cheating is what made me miserable with her. I still told her though, that I think I need to make the divorce final, and give myself an oppurtunity to be with someone who can truly make me happy. I will not completely rule out that somewhere down the road, that she may still be that person.

I think it's pretty easy to get along with a person if you're not together as much. You can have that half hour conversation, but you don't have to deal with them at the breakfast table or coming home from work etc. etc.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Hey BK, I had a similar experience, although it didn't involve infidelity (till immediately after we split up) the result was the same and my son was 2yo. It's "normal" to go back and forth, but the decision isn't yours to make, it was made a long time ago by your x-wife's immuturity. Her neediness that made her find "attention" elsewhere, didn't have much to with you as she would've done that in any marriage given the eb and flow of relationships. Bottom line is that she was not emotionally secure enough to be in a marriage and won't be, next week, month, or year, until some profound change in her

personality occurs, which isn't likely. People don't change until they've had enough consequences to take a look at themselves, which isn't happening because she is blaming you for not giving her the "attention" that she Needed. By remaining in this relationship, you will be validating her reasoning and denying her the consequences for her incorrect actions and it will happen again. Cut your loses, life after divorce is good. My son is 21 now and in college. My x and I have a good relationship and it's plan as day that we where completely incompatible, and now she's on husband #3 :laugh:

I'm currently going through some changes and this is pretty much how I see myself talking about my current relationship in the future. It's not infedelity as much as how I fear my girlfriend going elsewhere for "attention" if I have to move away. I'm thinking about going to Baltimore, an hour away from here, and she is too immature to trust if I leave. I could have moved in with a good friend about 5 months ago up there, it would have made my life a lot better, but it would have been a big kick in the stomach as far as my emotions go. She's had a history of cheating, and a history of making me suspicious, although I lay thy hammer upon her like her ex's didn't. At this point, the only real reason I hover around her is because I think she'll screw up with me being an hour away. But with my circumstances right now, I might have to move and hope it stays good.

[Kosher Ham]

Most people in this thread seem to be telling you to dump the *****. That is the emotionally correct thing to do. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing to do.

He has already dumped her. So are you saying he already messed up ?

Others on here have had experience in this area, and I have not. Having said that, you still have a very young daughter who needs stability in her life.

Stability does not mean that you need to remain in an unhappy relationship.

Think about the commitment you made when you decided to have your child. I think if you do the research, you will see that, most of all, raising a child is about stability and sacrifice. It's about not being selfish.

Seems as if they decided to have the child at a point where the marriage was still primarily comfortable.

In my mind, it comes down to this: Is there any possibility the marriage is salvageable? Answer the question honestly.

She cheated. What is there to salvage ?

If the answer is yes, then it seems to me you should seek out a marriage counselor. Do everything you can to make it work.

Marriage counselor for attention needs or communication needs are one thing. Once you take it to the next level ... several more years of counseling. Seems redundant, you should know who you love and why, you should protect and respect those people to no end. If you don't than you should not be in a serious COMMITTED relationship.

If the answer is no, it's not your fault. Find a divorce lawyer. Be willing to take some hits. Be sure to keep things as amicable as humanly possible.

It's not his fault regardless. He was not the one that stepped out for a side piece of ***. As far as the amicable part...absolutely, his relationship with his child is the most important thing that he needs to take care of at this point.

Let's agree to disagree.

[BKSkinsFan]

I think it's pretty easy to get along with a person if you're not together as much. You can have that half hour conversation, but you don't have to deal with them at the breakfast table or coming home from work etc. etc.

You're probably right, it's just weird how now that it seems as though there's nothing to lose because it's all gone at this point, I've found it easier to voice my problems with her and truly feel like she is taking in what I'm saying and not just thinking of her rebuddle and making it into an argument.

All I've ever wanted was to have a family atmosphere, to do things together, to enjoy raising our child, and that in turn would make our husband/wife bond strong. When you have a great time as a family, at the end of the day, you want nothing more than to hug your wife, and show her affection for giving you those great moments.

[SkinsOrlando]

BK, just move on bro. It's not easy to do, not even something most people want to do but it works out in the best. You'll find that after all is said and done you are better off and trying to "make" it work, doesn't work. And from a personal standpoint, I'm truly enjoying life again since my divorce two months ago because I'm realizing who I am again instead of being an extension of my ex-wife. I don't have kids so I cannot comment on that but as for yourself, you'll be better off.