Advice for a nice guy: Update need more advice

[Kosher Ham]

BK, just move on bro. It's not easy to do, not even something most people want to do but it works out in the best. You'll find that after all is said and done you are better off and trying to "make" it work, doesn't work. And from a personal standpoint, I'm truly enjoying life again since my divorce two months ago because I'm realizing who I am again instead of being an extension of my ex-wife. I don't have kids so I cannot comment on that but as for yourself, you'll be better off.

Did you have similar circumstances ? Obviously, besides the children.

[SkinsOrlando]

Did you have similar circumstances ? Obviously, besides the children.

Not exactly, my ex-wife decided that she no longer wanted the responsibility of marriage. She wanted to go party and essentially get rid of all responsibility in her life. She may have been having an affair, I do not know, I did not ask nor did I really care to know, I have my suspicions but at this point in time it's neither here nor there.

[chomerics]

I totally understand that staying together is important for a child. However, given my circumstances, I just don't know if that is actually best for me. My wife will be the first to admit that I deserve so much more than what she's given me. I know details about her affairs that are beyond uncool, and I've spent some sleepless nights with those images burnt in my head.

She's lied to me after I found out, and I as much as I want to believe her right now, I think it's probably wise to keep in mind the person saying these things about wanting counseling and hoping time apart can make things better some day is the same person who was out with some guy every night after work for like 2 weeks cheating on me while I was at home watching our daughter, making dinner, and enduring being in a relationship with a self centered selfish person.

Even after saying all that, I am having feelings right now of wanting nothing more than to have her back, and have things back to normal, not just back to normal, but continuing communicating our feelings and how each of us felt about what was going wrong with our relationship so we can fix it. We had a great talk last night and I got a lot out on how the things she was doing besides the cheating is what made me miserable with her. I still told her though, that I think I need to make the divorce final, and give myself an oppurtunity to be with someone who can truly make me happy. I will not completely rule out that somewhere down the road, that she may still be that person.

Well, the prevailing opinion on here is to "dump the biatch" but what more would you expect from the tailgate. In life there are easy choices and hard choices, getting rid of the woman is definitely the easy choice. Do you know why it is the easy choice? Because you don't have to look at yourself and see how you allowed the relationship to come to this, and you don't have to take any accountability for your actions. You can blame everything on her, and you do have a very strong case here, and continue on in your life without ever fixing how you got from point A to point B in the first place.

What you decide to do is entirely up to you, and nobody here is going to change your mind. We will give our opinions and let you know through our experience what we think, but the decision will be made internally by you.

Can your marriage be fixed? Of course it can, and it will take a lot of work from both you and your wife, but it can be fixed. It can also be better than it ever was, because you two will learn to communicate with each other and talk to each other, a trait that only comes about when faced with circumstances such as the one you are in right now. Believe it or not, something like this can bring a family closer together, and give each of you a better understanding of each other. . .but. . .that can only happen if you can forgive her, and come to grips with the issue.

If you are going to be up all night thinking in your head what she did, and the actions, then you will not allow it to work. You need to accept what happened, get counseling, and work on the relationship. Understand WHY she did what she did, and how your behavior made her turn outside of the marriage for physical attention. Your marriage can be saved, but in the same breath, it can be destroyed. You are the one who holds the cards, and you are the one who needs to understand what it means to be a man. Sometimes, the right path is the harder path to be taken. It is the path that the least amount of people go down, and because if they don't go down that path, they never have to face their own issues.

I don't envy your position, but in one instance, you have the ability to change where you head in your life. It is up to you, any decision you make will change the course of your life, as well as your daughters life, so don't make the decision based on emotions. Make the decisions based on what you want in life, and what you want for your daughter.

Best of luck man. . .

[BKSkinsFan]

Well, the prevailing opinion on here is to "dump the biatch" but what more would you expect from the tailgate. In life there are easy choices and hard choices, getting rid of the woman is definitely the easy choice. Do you know why it is the easy choice? Because you don't have to look at yourself and see how you allowed the relationship to come to this, and you don't have to take any accountability for your actions. You can blame everything on her, and you do have a very strong case here, and continue on in your life without ever fixing how you got from point A to point B in the first place.

What you decide to do is entirely up to you, and nobody here is going to change your mind. We will give our opinions and let you know through our experience what we think, but the decision will be made internally by you.

Can your marriage be fixed? Of course it can, and it will take a lot of work from both you and your wife, but it can be fixed. It can also be better than it ever was, because you two will learn to communicate with each other and talk to each other, a trait that only comes about when faced with circumstances such as the one you are in right now. Believe it or not, something like this can bring a family closer together, and give each of you a better understanding of each other. . .but. . .that can only happen if you can forgive her, and come to grips with the issue.

If you are going to be up all night thinking in your head what she did, and the actions, then you will not allow it to work. You need to accept what happened, get counseling, and work on the relationship. Understand WHY she did what she did, and how your behavior made her turn outside of the marriage for physical attention. Your marriage can be saved, but in the same breath, it can be destroyed. You are the one who holds the cards, and you are the one who needs to understand what it means to be a man. Sometimes, the right path is the harder path to be taken. It is the path that the least amount of people go down, and because if they don't go down that path, they never have to face their own issues.

I don't envy your position, but in one instance, you have the ability to change where you head in your life. It is up to you, any decision you make will change the course of your life, as well as your daughters life, so don't make the decision based on emotions. Make the decisions based on what you want in life, and what you want for your daughter.

Best of luck man. . .

Wow, you said a lot and spoke a lot of truth to how I'm currently feeling. Although my feelings change from 1 hour to the next, I am well aware that my actions of not showing her attention or affection made her seek something else. Of course that doesn't validate what she did, but I do have to own up to the fact that it is why she did it. She knows she has a lot of changing to do, and I know I have my faults that need worked on too.

The thing is, the reason I showed her no attention is due to the fact that she wouldn't do things as a family, she wanted to do things for herself. If she wanted to go somewhere, it was to go shopping with a friend, go to a concert, movie, bar, dinner, broadway show, etc. There just weren't enough times where she'd want to go somewhere with Rylie and I. If we were somewhere together, she'd be off talking to someone else while I was watching Rylie. We discussed this last night, and she said she didn't even realize she was doing this, but now sees that is what she was doing. I brought up a couple of times that we did things is a family, and she remembered that those were very good times.

This is where my faults come in, I endure instead of telling her she needs to be with us more. I kind of looked at it like, she had to know she wasn't spending time with us, and it made me feel like she didn't care. I guess it is possible that she was just totally unaware, and if I would just endure it and not speak up there was no reason for her to change. It's amazing how those actions, followed by my reaction, drove her to further complicate things by doing something that may be unforgivable. I do know that I miss my wife right now horribly, and would do anything to turn back time and do my best to ensure she wouldn't have done something like that to me.

[Chachie]

BK-

A cheater is a cheater is a cheater. I've never been married and I have no children so I know there is a LOT more for you to consider but people don't change. She will cheat on the guy who she was cheating on you with and she will cheat on the guy she cheated on him with. Her need for new attention will override any sense of duty to her relationships.

People only change by experiencing a lot of pain due to their own actions and you are already letting her off the hook WAY too easily. her easy exit from this marriage won't teach her a thing. I am aware that you are trying to do what's best for your child and your future dealings with her but if she doesn't suffer consequences, she will only learn that she can do this anytime she wants out of a commitment or wants to continue a commitment on her secret terms.

In short, if you want her to change, burn her to the ground in court. I'm quite certain she will switch all her amicable positions when she consults a lawyer and I know for sure she'd crush you if she were in your shoes.

[DeanCollins]

I love it. :laugh:

Chomerics, the proffesional bachelor, that dates dozens of women a year (and dumps them) is now the expert on mending a troubled marriage :laugh: :notworthy

[Coooleeey]

I love it. :laugh:

Chomerics, the proffesional bachelor, that dates dozens of women a year (and dumps them) is now the expert on mending a troubled marriage :laugh: :notworthy

Hahahaha, dude I was thinking the exact same thing!

[chomerics]

I love it. :laugh:

Chomerics, the proffesional bachelor, that dates dozens of women a year (and dumps them) is now the expert on mending a troubled marriage :laugh: :notworthy

I know women, relationships and what makes them work and what does not. I've been in long term relationships, short term ones, screw friends and everything in between. At my age, and with my experience with women, I like to think I know a little about what I am talking about. Who would you rather get advice from? Someone who sits at home in the basement, lives in a lousy marriage, and hates himself, or a person who has experience with a variety of situations, women, relationships and is introspective? I would prefer the latter, but maybe that's just me.

The fact that what I wrote touched a chord with BK tells you one thing, that I can relate to his position, and I can see what happens from both sides of an argument. All I am doing is giving my advice as a fellow man, and trying to relate to him that some of his raw emotions and feelings he is going through are perfectly normal, and expected. I am also trying to tell him that making any kind of a rash judgment based on emotions will end up hurting himself in the long term, because it never address' the root of the problem. . .

BK-

A cheater is a cheater is a cheater. I've never been married and I have no children so I know there is a LOT more for you to consider but people don't change. She will cheat on the guy who she was cheating on you with and she will cheat on the guy she cheated on him with. Her need for new attention will override any sense of duty to her relationships.

Well. . .I can emphatically say that you are wrong, and if you believe this, then you really don't understand women at all. maybe that is why you have never been married? Who knows. . .but I know this from experience, and having given the EXACT same advice to one of my best friends about 12 years ago you just did, it is wrong. He is now happily married with 3 children, and living the American dream. He did the opposite of what I told him at the time, which was to dump her sorry behind, and he stood by her. It was the toughest decision he has ever made, and it was also the best one. She has been faithful, happily married, and a loving wife and great mother to their 3 children. I have apologized to BOTH of them because I WAS wrong when he asked for my advice. Again, through experience you learn these things if you are open to learning.

People only change by experiencing a lot of pain due to their own actions and you are already letting her off the hook WAY too easily. her easy exit from this marriage won't teach her a thing.

Having never been married, I REALLY don't think you have the SLIGHTEST idea what breaking up a family does to a person, or even have a REMOTE clue as to why this is torture for BOTH of them. Come back here and talk about it once you have a child, and then face the prospect of raising that child either away from you or in two different households. Until you do, or until you experience this, you are all wet behind the ears.

In short, if you want her to change, burn her to the ground in court. I'm quite certain she will switch all her amicable positions when she consults a lawyer and I know for sure she'd crush you if she were in your shoes.

Ummm, if you want her to become an evil ans spiteful wench, take her to court, then if you really want to see her suffer, take away her child. It is not the correct thing to do, nor is it the right thing to do, but hey you get even right :doh:

I understand people like yourself are not secure enough in your own masculinity to accept your own internal failures. There is nothing wrong with that, and it is very VERY easy to blame someone else for their actions. The easiest thing in the world to do is to walk away, never turn back, and never give it a fair chance. . . but at some point, you will realize that that is the coward way of handling the situation. That is the same thing as turning and running away from your problems and ignoring them. You never come to understand why everything happened, you only think it was her who was the issue. Then, maybe 10 years go by and you re-marry only to have the exact same thing happen again to you. And instead of looking at where you were at fault, you do the same thing and run away. Some people spend their entire lives running away from their problems and their issues. Yet, there are others who confront them, take them head on, and try to work things out and change their OWN actions.

BK, I honestly don't want to sit here and tel you I have all the answers, I surely do not. I can only relate to what you are going through because I have been in similar positions before, as well as witnessed my good friends being in similar positions. You are the one who has to make the decision, and you are the one who has to decide what is best both for you and for your daughter. Maybe the best thing is to split up for good, I can't give you that answer, only you know it. I can tell you this though, what ever your decision is, you should take this experience and learn from it. Even if you split up with her, and don't get back together, learn from your own mistakes, and improve on them. It is how you grow as a person and as a man. She made some horrible decisions which put your family at risk, and this is not to be taken lightly, but in the same breath, sometimes womens actions are a cry for help because they are hurting inside and don't know how to express those feelings.

The best thing you can do right now is to take advantage of the situation while both of your guards are down and let her know exactly how you feel. Let her know what you are thinking, and work on communicating your feelings to her, as well as allowing her to tell you how she feels. Don't get judgmental, or superior to her, just listen. Listen to what she says, then after she is done, acknowledge it, and repeat it back to her. Let her know that you understand how she feels, and seriously try to be empathetic. It is a very VERY hard thing to do in your circumstance, but. . .if you DO want the marriage to work, and you DO want to start towards a great marriage, these are things you have to do, and it starts with listening. I wish I could say it was easy, but it is not. You are going through something many of us go through in life, but the decision and choice of how to proceed is yours. You hold the cards now, just make sure you play them right.

[Chachie]

I know women, relationships and what makes them work and what does not. I've been in long term relationships, short term ones, screw friends and everything in between. At my age, and with my experience with women, I like to think I know a little about what I am talking about. Who would you rather get advice from? Someone who sits at home in the basement, lives in a lousy marriage, and hates himself, or a person who has experience with a variety of situations, women, relationships and is introspective? I would prefer the latter, but maybe that's just me.

The fact that what I wrote touched a chord with BK tells you one thing, that I can relate to his position, and I can see what happens from both sides of an argument. All I am doing is giving my advice as a fellow man, and trying to relate to him that some of his raw emotions and feelings he is going through are perfectly normal, and expected. I am also trying to tell him that making any kind of a rash judgment based on emotions will end up hurting himself in the long term, because it never address' the root of the problem. . .

Well. . .I can emphatically say that you are wrong, and if you believe this, then you really don't understand women at all. maybe that is why you have never been married? Who knows. . .but I know this from experience, and having given the EXACT same advice to one of my best friends about 12 years ago you just did, it is wrong. He is now happily married with 3 children, and living the American dream. He did the opposite of what I told him at the time, which was to dump her sorry behind, and he stood by her. It was the toughest decision he has ever made, and it was also the best one. She has been faithful, happily married, and a loving wife and great mother to their 3 children. I have apologized to BOTH of them because I WAS wrong when he asked for my advice. Again, through experience you learn these things if you are open to learning.

Having never been married, I REALLY don't think you have the SLIGHTEST idea what breaking up a family does to a person, or even have a REMOTE clue as to why this is torture for BOTH of them. Come back here and talk about it once you have a child, and then face the prospect of raising that child either away from you or in two different households. Until you do, or until you experience this, you are all wet behind the ears.

Ummm, if you want her to become an evil ans spiteful wench, take her to court, then if you really want to see her suffer, take away her child. It is not the correct thing to do, nor is it the right thing to do, but hey you get even right :doh:

I understand people like yourself are not secure enough in your own masculinity to accept your own internal failures. There is nothing wrong with that, and it is very VERY easy to blame someone else for their actions. The easiest thing in the world to do is to walk away, never turn back, and never give it a fair chance. . . but at some point, you will realize that that is the coward way of handling the situation. That is the same thing as turning and running away from your problems and ignoring them. You never come to understand why everything happened, you only think it was her who was the issue. Then, maybe 10 years go by and you re-marry only to have the exact same thing happen again to you. And instead of looking at where you were at fault, you do the same thing and run away. Some people spend their entire lives running away from their problems and their issues. Yet, there are others who confront them, take them head on, and try to work things out and change their OWN actions.

BK, I honestly don't want to sit here and tel you I have all the answers, I surely do not. I can only relate to what you are going through because I have been in similar positions before, as well as witnessed my good friends being in similar positions. You are the one who has to make the decision, and you are the one who has to decide what is best both for you and for your daughter. Maybe the best thing is to split up for good, I can't give you that answer, only you know it. I can tell you this though, what ever your decision is, you should take this experience and learn from it. Even if you split up with her, and don't get back together, learn from your own mistakes, and improve on them. It is how you grow as a person and as a man. She made some horrible decisions which put your family at risk, and this is not to be taken lightly, but in the same breath, sometimes womens actions are a cry for help because they are hurting inside and don't know how to express those feelings.

The best thing you can do right now is to take advantage of the situation while both of your guards are down and let her know exactly how you feel. Let her know what you are thinking, and work on communicating your feelings to her, as well as allowing her to tell you how she feels. Don't get judgmental, or superior to her, just listen. Listen to what she says, then after she is done, acknowledge it, and repeat it back to her. Let her know that you understand how she feels, and seriously try to be empathetic. It is a very VERY hard thing to do in your circumstance, but. . .if you DO want the marriage to work, and you DO want to start towards a great marriage, these are things you have to do, and it starts with listening. I wish I could say it was easy, but it is not. You are going through something many of us go through in life, but the decision and choice of how to proceed is yours. You hold the cards now, just make sure you play them right.

You opinion is yours, Chom. No reason to pick apart my post with such vigor. We may both be speaking too soon for BK's benefit.

I'm willing to bet that BK's repeated description of his wife as being selfish and self-centered will ultimately prove me right. If he'd described her as a better human being or said he was shocked by the unexpected behavior by her I may have offered a different approach. Just because your advice is more "thought provoking" doesn't make it sound for his situation. I didn't focus so ferociously on anyone else's post just because I disagreed with some of them. You could have just given your two cents and moved on. Also- the personal attack was way out of line. You have no idea who I am or what I'm about. Poor taste.

Are you currently married? Do you have kids? (Rhetorical questions, Farley.)

[chomerics]

You opinion is yours, Chom. No reason to pick apart my post with such vigor. We may both be speaking too soon for BK's benefit.

I'm willing to bet that BK's repeated description of his wife as being selfish and self-centered will ultimately prove me right. If he'd described her as a better human being or said he was shocked by the unexpected behavior by her I may have offered a different approach.

Fair enough. . .but I would venture a guess that she was not always like that, and it was a recent behavioral pattern. I mean if she was like that all the time, I would find it hard to believe someone would marry her to begin with. What you didn't see in his post, was the other things he mentioned about his wife, and his daughter and how he was hurting. You focused on she's out sleeping around and she always will. I don't believe that is the case for her, or for any woman for that matter. It is all about how you treat them, how you make the women feel, and if you are giving her what she needs to feel secure in a relationship.

Just because your advice is more "thought provoking" doesn't make it sound for his situation. I didn't focus so ferociously on anyone else's post just because I disagreed with some of them. You could have just given your two cents and moved on.

Are you currently married? Do you have kids? (Rhetorical questions, Farley.)

No, the reason I focused on your post was because

a. you just posted, or it was close to the bottom

b. you were vehemently opposed to talking things over, and stated that people can't change, she is a what she is so just move on.

I never said you were wrong, but I did point out the inherent flaws in thinking that is good advice. It could just have been bangs post or someone else's, it was just that you were closer to the end.

As I mentioned before, if she was this horrid person he never would have married her in the first place, so I am going on that assumption. If she has always been a "floozy" and never was close to him or anything like that the advise may have been different. In this case, I believe my advise was sound, and rational devoid of any emotion.

Heck the best thing MAY be for him to leave, but until he finds out what the real issues are, he is doing a disservice to him, his daughter and his wife. Leaving is akin to folding your hand. . .and I would rather see the flop when I have the button then to pass on a 8-10 suited

[Chachie]

It's all good Chomerics. I still wonder what this was all about though...

I understand people like yourself are not secure enough in your own masculinity to accept your own internal failures.

:whoknows: Have we met?

Edit- btw, Your character witnesses here have not given you the highest grade on the ethics scale.

[DeanCollins]

I know women, relationships and what makes them work and what does not. I've been in long term relationships, short term ones, screw friends and everything in between. At my age, and with my experience with women, I like to think I know a little about what I am talking about. Who would you rather get advice from? Someone who sits at home in the basement, lives in a lousy marriage, and hates himself, or a person who has experience with a variety of situations, women, relationships and is introspective? I would prefer the latter, but maybe that's just me.

who lives in a basement and is in a lousy marriage? And as long as we're keeping score, I met my wife when you were 21. And I have been where BK is now and have seen dozens of others , all who have tried to make it work and failed sooner or later (including myself). And Chom, all your long term relationships ended I hear you that the one guy you told to forget about his wife is now happily married, but the odds of that are about the same as your team having the perfect season and winning the superbowl :laugh:. But I tell you what, I'm not a gambling man but I'll bet you $1000 that BK and his wife are not together this time next year. And I'll give you 2 to 1 odds since they are not together now. So get busy there mr. marriage counselor :laugh:. BK if this is offensive, say the word and I'll remove it.

[Chachie]

who lives in a basement and is in a lousy marriage? And as long as we're keeping score, I met my wife when you were 21. And I have been where BK is now and have seen dozens of others , all who have tried to make it work and failed sooner or later (including myself). And Chom, all your long term relationships ended I hear you that the one guy you told to forget about his wife is now happily married, but the odds of that are about the same as your team having the perfect season and winning the superbowl :laugh:. But I tell you what, I'm not a gambling man but I'll bet you $1000 that BK and his wife are not together this time next year. And I'll give you 2 to 1 odds since they are not together now. So get busy there mr. marriage counselor :laugh:. BK if this is offensive, say the word and I'll remove it.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[BKSkinsFan]

who lives in a basement and is in a lousy marriage? And as long as we're keeping score, I met my wife when you were 21. And I have been where BK is now and have seen dozens of others , all who have tried to make it work and failed sooner or later (including myself). And Chom, all your long term relationships ended I hear you that the one guy you told to forget about his wife is now happily married, but the odds of that are about the same as your team having the perfect season and winning the superbowl :laugh:. But I tell you what, I'm not a gambling man but I'll bet you $1000 that BK and his wife are not together this time next year. And I'll give you 2 to 1 odds since they are not together now. So get busy there mr. marriage counselor :laugh:. BK if this is offensive, say the word and I'll remove it.

Not offensive at all, it's actually kind of gratifying to see people with differing opinions on this issue. I have spent a lot of this week going back and forth over this. My feelings change on this almost hourly. So for 1 hour I'm Chom, the next hour I'm seeing your side, and I am seeing that it's perfectly normal for me to do that.

At this point, I know I do still love her, but cannot completely truthfully answer that I may be wanting her back so badly because I don't want to be alone, and don't want my family split. I just have to take this 1 day at a time, 1 hour at a time.

I do want to thank everyone for their help. I do know no matter what opinion anyone in this thread has, they all have been showing me that they have my best interests in mind. I know this isn't a site for counseling, but it is great to know that there are such great people here to count on during one's trials in life.

[Bang]

After reading the last few pages, here's what I say.

The instant you apologize for your failures and attempt to reconcile, you've forfeited yourself.

To be perfectly blunt, if the woman was worth a damn, she'd have gone about discussing your failures with you in ways other than sleeping around. In no WAY does any of your own shortcomings excuse that. No WAY. (also, recognize that at this time, you're searching for answers, and a way back to the old life. One easy way is to absolve them and take the blame yourself,, you reason that if you take it all, she will come back if she's found blameless.. nothing is further from the truth. Of all your supposed failings, one of them is not infidelity, and in a marriage, there's not too many that are worse.)

She isn't your girlfriend, your fling, or anything else. She's supposed to be your wife, committed forever, and now with a child. And if she made that commitment, if she had any respect for what those vows meant than she owed it to you (and your daughter) to find other ways of dealing with the problems in your marriage than to simply walk out the door and **** someone else.

Now, you may have failings. You may have problems. But once again, it does not in any way excuse her actions. And if you admit that your failings drove her away out loud, she'll slice off your balls and keep them forever. You'll become a cuckold in every sense of the word. the threat will exist forever that she'll do it again, and no matter how much you'd like to believe otherwise, the trust is gone, and when she's late getting home from work, you'll wonder, when she goes to the store for longer than you expected, you'll wonder.. and that is no way to live.

People bring up your daughter as a reason to stay. I went through the same thing as you, at the same time. My son was a month shy of his 2nd birthday when my ex up and left. I've raised him ever since. He needs solid family life, and he has it. My ex and I are not what I'd call amicable, I'll never forgive her, and I keep my conversations with her to the minimum. I don't fight with her anymore, and we work together on raising my son, even though she's absent. She keeps to her visitation schedule and I'm very liberal with it.. if she wants to take him on a different day or swap weekends, i'm fine with it.

And in the beginning I was like you, wondering what I could do to bring her back, what I did wrong, etc etc. And the simple fact is nothing would bring her back, and I didn't do anything wrong. And after a short time it was very apparent that I wouldn't take her back anyway, for all the reasons I listed above.

She did it to you once. The ultimate in disrespect for you and your feelings. If she did it once, she'll do it again. And no matter how much you want it to work, you're only human, and that threat will be in your mind until the day comes that it finally all does fall apart.

And how old will your daughter be then? The older they are, the harder on them it becomes. Splitting now while she's so young, she'll never even remember it differently. And depending on who has custody, if you keep it nice and you keep to your schedules and spend as much time as you can with her, it will be normal to her.

the only other thing I'd say is go for custody. I couldn't imagine not having custoddy of my son, so I admit I'm shooting in the dark when it comes to the pain of being separated from your child. One thing I do know,, had my ex fallen for my blubbering and come back, it would be over again by now, and i'd have gone through my misery twice.

Make your stand now. It does get better.

Sorry to be so blunt. I really do know exactly how you're feeling. I wallowed in self pity for a long while, and occasionally someone would come along and be blunt rather than sympathetic. In hindsight, I found that they were right.

On another track,, i too was terrified of being alone,, 35, overweight, bald on top,, i saw my prospects as slim to none.

Now I'm married again, happier than ever, my wife is terrific, and if you'll pardon me some male objectifying, one hell of an upgrade.

She's smarter, has more going on, is beautiful (out of my league, I would have thought once upon a time), and because we didn't meet as kids, our love isn't based on all the puppy-love stuff you find in your twenties. It's real and it's solid.

And at our age, being a nice guy is a hell of a plus. So, don't sweat being alone. As I found, it's a new world for folks our age.

~Bang

[rdsknbill]

I love it. :laugh:

Chomerics, the proffesional bachelor, that dates dozens of women a year (and dumps them) is now the expert on mending a troubled marriage :laugh: :notworthy

I was kind of thinking the same thing. I also love the "My vast experience with women" BS. OK Mister Love-Doctor, explain to me this, why , after these countless "long term" relationships", are you still single?

Chom, I am sorry but your advice doesnt carry much weight. And you better quit quoting Dr. Phil verbatim. I heard he gets pissed. :laugh:

[BKSkinsFan]

Bang, that's awesome that you've been strong enough to get through it and raise your son pretty much by yourself. I really felt like I could do the same, but only have my daughter for 2 days at a time, I'm struggling doing the basic things I've so easily done in the past. From doing daily household chores, to making dinner, doing dishes, giving her a bath, snack, putting her to bed, and cleaning up toys, these are definitely all things that I have done in the past. I always knew I COULD do these things without my wife and on many occasions have, but at this point, it is beyond difficult for me to accomplish them. I hope you're right that it does get better, but I'll be damned if it doesn't feel bleak at this point in time.

[zoony]

If a discussion involves children, and people who do not have children chime in, it is a good idea to completely ignore them.

.....

[Bang]

Bang, that's awesome that you've been strong enough to get through it and raise your son pretty much by yourself. I really felt like I could do the same, but only have my daughter for 2 days at a time, I'm struggling doing the basic things I've so easily done in the past. From doing daily household chores, to making dinner, doing dishes, giving her a bath, snack, putting her to bed, and cleaning up toys, these are definitely all things that I have done in the past. I always knew I COULD do these things without my wife and on many occasions have, but at this point, it is beyond difficult for me to accomplish them. I hope you're right that it does get better, but I'll be damned if it doesn't feel bleak at this point in time.

In all honesty, strength has nothing to do with it. It's simply what must be done. As you no doubt noticed the first time you laid eyes on your daughter, you'll die for her. You'd do anything for her. It's unlike any other love there is. When my marriage split and I was left in the middle of the night with a baby, I had no choice but to keep it together and do it. You have the same strength. It's inherent to a parent.

You'll get there. It simply takes some adjustment, and truly, once you're off the huge emotional roller coaster you're on, it gets much easier. Those first weeks and months are a blur to me, and i won't lie,, it was the toughest time of my entire life. I could tell you stories, but this isn't the time.

I know how you feel. The pain is very real, my chest physically hurt for a long time. the abandonment, the betrayal... It's been ten years, and the betrayal still does bother me. I spent a long time kicking myself for not noticing things that in hindsight were very obvious,, but at the time I simply didn't see.. (my ex carried on a six month long affair with a good friend of mine while I was at work every day. Since then they are married, live ten minutes away, and now HE is my son's little league baseball coach. It takes some tongue biting at times, but not so much anymore. He's a good coach, and Max is happy. That is what's important. And if during the game I start feeling bothered, I simply look at my wife, then look at my ex, and I get a big smile. Life is good.)

And for you, it will get better. Stay focused on what is important, and that is giving your daughter the best father she can have despite the circumstances. be civil to your ex regardless,, take the high road and be firm. You'll be better for it later. And one of the most important ways to get better is to recognize that while yes, you may have faults, it doesn't excuse her actions. You didn't kill your marriage, and that's the truth. It's not about assigning blame, it's about taking care of your mental well being.

It does get better.

Those four words were said to me by a total stranger.. I was talking with someone i knew, wearing my heart on my sleeve, and someone who overheard us came up and said to me those four words.

It does get better.

I held on to those words as a mantra, and it did.

And it will for you, too.

~Bang

[jnhay]

Not offensive at all, it's actually kind of gratifying to see people with differing opinions on this issue. I have spent a lot of this week going back and forth over this. My feelings change on this almost hourly. So for 1 hour I'm Chom, the next hour I'm seeing your side, and I am seeing that it's perfectly normal for me to do that.

At this point, I know I do still love her, but cannot completely truthfully answer that I may be wanting her back so badly because I don't want to be alone, and don't want my family split. I just have to take this 1 day at a time, 1 hour at a time.

I do want to thank everyone for their help. I do know no matter what opinion anyone in this thread has, they all have been showing me that they have my best interests in mind. I know this isn't a site for counseling, but it is great to know that there are such great people here to count on during one's trials in life.

Are you sure you're just not afraid of being alone?

[chomerics]

After reading the last few pages, here's what I say.

The instant you apologize for your failures and attempt to reconcile, you've forfeited yourself.

To be perfectly blunt, if the woman was worth a damn, she'd have gone about discussing your failures with you in ways other than sleeping around. In no WAY does any of your own shortcomings excuse that. No WAY. (also, recognize that at this time, you're searching for answers, and a way back to the old life. One easy way is to absolve them and take the blame yourself,, you reason that if you take it all, she will come back if she's found blameless.. nothing is further from the truth. Of all your supposed failings, one of them is not infidelity, and in a marriage, there's not too many that are worse.)

She isn't your girlfriend, your fling, or anything else. She's supposed to be your wife, committed forever, and now with a child. And if she made that commitment, if she had any respect for what those vows meant than she owed it to you (and your daughter) to find other ways of dealing with the problems in your marriage than to simply walk out the door and **** someone else.

Now, you may have failings. You may have problems. But once again, it does not in any way excuse her actions. And if you admit that your failings drove her away out loud, she'll slice off your balls and keep them forever. You'll become a cuckold in every sense of the word. the threat will exist forever that she'll do it again, and no matter how much you'd like to believe otherwise, the trust is gone, and when she's late getting home from work, you'll wonder, when she goes to the store for longer than you expected, you'll wonder.. and that is no way to live.

I could not disagree with you more, I think you are dead wrong. Admitting where you erred, is not absolving her actions at all, in stead it is reinforcing the belief that he understands how she feels, and will try to make her feel better, feel more wanted, and give her the attention she wants and needs as a woman.

I get sick and tired of the 50's view of woman, and the world, reality is not like that. A woman's place is not in the kitchen, they like sex just as much as us if not more so, a woman has wants, desires and needs as well, and they need to be filled. As a husband, and a lover, it is your job to keep her happy and to make her feel like she is the best woman in the world. If you can manage to do that, you will live a great life and have a wonderful marriage. If you take the position that she is supposed to cook you dinner, clean the house, and give you head once a week, while your job is to work, well then that is not a marriage. . .that is two unhappy people who don't understand what a relationship is.

People bring up your daughter as a reason to stay. I went through the same thing as you, at the same time. My son was a month shy of his 2nd birthday when my ex up and left. I've raised him ever since. He needs solid family life, and he has it. My ex and I are not what I'd call amicable, I'll never forgive her, and I keep my conversations with her to the minimum. I don't fight with her anymore, and we work together on raising my son, even though she's absent. She keeps to her visitation schedule and I'm very liberal with it.. if she wants to take him on a different day or swap weekends, i'm fine with it.

And in the beginning I was like you, wondering what I could do to bring her back, what I did wrong, etc etc. And the simple fact is nothing would bring her back, and I didn't do anything wrong. And after a short time it was very apparent that I wouldn't take her back anyway, for all the reasons I listed above.

That is your position, not his Bang, and it doesn't relate to him. Did she leave you, or did she come and do a mea culpa because she wanted to work things out? Did she up and leave her child and you? In that case, your position is the correct one, but that is not the case here, and your advise doesn't cross all boundaries. It worked in YOUR position, but it is not necessarily the best advice for someone in HIS position.

She did it to you once. The ultimate in disrespect for you and your feelings. If she did it once, she'll do it again. And no matter how much you want it to work, you're only human, and that threat will be in your mind until the day comes that it finally all does fall apart.

Not true at all, as one of my best friends is now married happily for 12 years after this happened. The best thing for their relationship, as whacked as it sounds, was to have her cheat on him, because in the long run it made them both realize what they wanted, and how to communicate to each other better.

And how old will your daughter be then? The older they are, the harder on them it becomes. Splitting now while she's so young, she'll never even remember it differently. And depending on who has custody, if you keep it nice and you keep to your schedules and spend as much time as you can with her, it will be normal to her.

the only other thing I'd say is go for custody. I couldn't imagine not having custoddy of my son, so I admit I'm shooting in the dark when it comes to the pain of being separated from your child. One thing I do know,, had my ex fallen for my blubbering and come back, it would be over again by now, and i'd have gone through my misery twice.

In YOUR instance Bang, not in his. The two are not related, what worked for you is not the best advice ALWAYS, it just worked in your case.

Make your stand now. It does get better.

Sorry to be so blunt. I really do know exactly how you're feeling. I wallowed in self pity for a long while, and occasionally someone would come along and be blunt rather than sympathetic. In hindsight, I found that they were right.

On another track,, i too was terrified of being alone,, 35, overweight, bald on top,, i saw my prospects as slim to none.

Now I'm married again, happier than ever, my wife is terrific, and if you'll pardon me some male objectifying, one hell of an upgrade.

She's smarter, has more going on, is beautiful (out of my league, I would have thought once upon a time), and because we didn't meet as kids, our love isn't based on all the puppy-love stuff you find in your twenties. It's real and it's solid.

And at our age, being a nice guy is a hell of a plus. So, don't sweat being alone. As I found, it's a new world for folks our age.

~Bang

On the last part, I agree with you totally. As I get older, the quality of woman keeps on increasing and increasing. Every time I break up with a girlfriend, I end up upgrading to a better model :laugh:

But. . .to sum up your post Bang, i could not disagree with you more. I understand you have gone through a similar thing, as most of us here have. I've been on both sides of the equation, the cheater and the cheated on, neither is a good place to be. You are using your personal experiences with woman and an authoritarian view of the world to say this is how it is and that is that. I can tell you from experience and witnessing everything first had, and second, that is decidedly not the case. What worked for you does not work for everyone and it is not the best advice in every instance.

Heck, ANYONE and I repeat ANYONE can walk away. That is the easiest decision to do, and it doesn't take much to say "she is a ho, that is it". That way you don't have to deal with anything, focus everything on her, and say I did what I could, a ho is a ho and nothing mo. It is by FAR the easiest decision to make, the one where nobody questions you, and the one where you hold yourself higher then the other person. . .but is it the correct decision???

The much MUCH harder task is to search inside yourself, try to understand why things went wrong, how they went wrong, what were the causes of it, and how to prevent it in the future. I mean maybe sex is horrible and she needs a different outlet because she can't get off. Maybe she is treated like :pooh: completely ignored as a woman and a lover, so she turns to things outside the relationship to have those feelings of want and need. Maybe you chow box like you are gnawing on a bone, and it skeeves her out. Who knows what the answer is, BUT here is the thing, if you walk away, you will NEVER know the answer. You will have this "theory" in your head that she left because she is a ho, but in truth, the answer is much much deeper then that.

Sometimes people can't admit they are at fault, sometimes they can't be introspective with their own misgivings and come to an understanding as to how things got bad enough where she turned outside the marriage for the affection she wanted or needed. Some people are just wired differently, and to each his own there is no right answer.

I do know this though, your absolutes and predictions about her walking all over him are not correct. If he had no balls, there is no way he would even consider taking her back, that is the coward way of dealing with the situation. Actually figuring things out is the HARD path to take and the one that takes HUGE balls. She will not walk all over him, because she won't WANT to. If they can learn to communicate, and understand each other, this will never happen again. As I mentioned before, I have seen it up front and close. I have seen both sides of the coin, and I have been on both sides of the coin.

Now, if he just said lets just forget it ever happened, not go to therapy, not learn to communicate, and continue down the miserable path he was on before, you are right, the same things will happen. . .but who is willing to do that? maybe some people, who knows, but that should not even be an option.

[zoony]

^^^^^ I've seen strawmen before, but WOW. Just wow.

.....

[chomerics]

I was kind of thinking the same thing. I also love the "My vast experience with women" BS. OK Mister Love-Doctor, explain to me this, why , after these countless "long term" relationships", are you still single?

Well, I have been in a 12 year relationship and a 2 year one in the past 16 or so years. In the breaks I have gone out with various women, and I *gasp* actually listen to what they say. I went out, had a lot of fun, and as of now, I still have not found a woman that hits on all levels. I am looking for my intellectual equal, sexually equal (I have a high libido), physically attractive to me, and someone I would perceive as a great mother. When i find that woman I will marry her, but in the mean time, as I am looking, I will continue to learn the tricks of the trade and make women shake like they're having a seizure

Chom, I am sorry but your advice doesnt carry much weight. And you better quit quoting Dr. Phil verbatim. I heard he gets pissed. :laugh:

Sorry bill if you think I am quoting Dr. Phil. . .I am just relating what my views are through experience, and understanding of women. There is nothing wrong with empathy and introspection, it actually gives you a better understanding of the world, and it reveals motives you never knew existed before.

[jnhay]

Not true at all, as one of my best friends is now married happily for 12 years after this happened. The best thing for their relationship, as whacked as it sounds, was to have her cheat on him, because in the long run it made them both realize what they wanted, and how to communicate to each other better.

Some people keep on cheating and some people don't. My guess is that there's a much higher probability of cheating with someone's who done it before rather than someone who has never done it.

[chomerics]

who lives in a basement and is in a lousy marriage? And as long as we're keeping score, I met my wife when you were 21. And I have been where BK is now and have seen dozens of others , all who have tried to make it work and failed sooner or later (including myself). And Chom, all your long term relationships ended.

Yes, they ended because I learned when to walk away from a relationship if it was not going to work. I learned that people change over time, and sometimes people grow while others stay stagnant. Just because I have not met my future wife yet does not mean I have not been in a similar situation, or understand that point of view. It only means I have not found the person I am looking for to spend the rest of my life with.

I hear you that the one guy you told to forget about his wife is now happily married, but the odds of that are about the same as your team having the perfect season and winning the superbowl

Pats quip aside, this is indeed not the case, and it is not true. If you just forgive and ignore that will happen, but that is not the advice I am giving. I am advocating changing your behavior and patterns that put you into the place to begin with.

But I tell you what, I'm not a gambling man but I'll bet you $1000 that BK and his wife are not together this time next year. And I'll give you 2 to 1 odds since they are not together now. So get busy there mr. marriage counselor :laugh:. BK if this is offensive, say the word and I'll remove it.

So if I bet $500, I get $1000 if they are still together? Sounds like a bet to me

P.S. BK, I'll give you $500 if you stay with her for one more year